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General Motors discussions

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Comments

  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    So this is why they can not guaranty it will work everywhere. Best be careful where the car flies off the road then. :blush:
    Yeap, has to be better than cell phones, as my T-Mobile doesn't work in much of rural areas where I live. I sure like the cost of T-Mobile pre-paid, having a cell works great along the freeways and some of the well traveled highway areas, as well as a home phone, so I can't complain too much. My luck, if I had OnStar, I would find the dead area to end up dead :( Oh yeah, it wouldn't matter at that point.

    Can GM sell OnStar to other manufactures in hopes of making a dollar or two? Don't see any cash cows in the form of cars, other than SUVs, and when gas hits $3.50 a gallon - look out!

    -Loren
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    The OnStar cell service was available as a Verizon account - so you could use Verizon plan minutes on your car phone. They started that shortly after we got our 03. Check into that if you're looking for better cell phone service. Our OnStar worked in part of KY that friends had told us their Verizon did work in. I assume because of stronger signal capability.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Can GM sell OnStar to other manufactures in hopes of making a dollar or two? Don't see any cash cows in the form of cars, other than SUVs, and when gas hits $3.50 a gallon - look out!
    (See Acura RL)

    I think a few different brands outside GM have Onstar, Loren.

    The question will be Loren, will there be plenty of buyers willing to buy a 30 or 40 mpg Hybrid Fullsize pick-up or SUV if and when gas hits $3.50 ?????

    Rocky
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    >Can GM sell OnStar to other manufactures in hopes of making a dollar

    Check this page for lists of who uses OnSTar.

    http://www.onstar.com/us_english/jsp/equip_vehicles/pre_model_years.jsp

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Great Post pal. :shades:

    Rocky :D
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    I knew I'd seen a list somewhere. I was surprised that Audi and Acura used it.'Isuzu, Subaru, Volkswagen.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Yeah thanx for the list. GM hopefully will beable to sell Onstar to more company's in the future. ;) I think the new XM Navi-traffic feature that's hooked into Acura's Navigation is very useful and is being featured in Cadillacs. Acura's new Satelitte system that is used in Japan is really cool and their was a article I posted from the Edmunds site, a few days ago on it. :shades:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    1 - Phil Mickelson - 2:52 p EDT -4 70 72 70 - 212
    T2 - Fred Couples - 2:52 p EDT -3 71 70 72 - 213
    T2 - Chad Campbell - 2:42 p EDT -3 71 67 75 - 213
    T4 - Stephen Ames - 2:42 p EDT -2 74 70 70 - 214
    T4 - Tim Clark - 2:32 p EDT -2 70 72 72 - 214
    T4 - Tiger Woods - 2:32 p EDT -2 72 71 71 - 214
    T4 - Darren Clarke - 2:22 p EDT -2 72 70 72 - 214
    T4 - Vijay Singh - 2:22 p EDT -2 67 74 73 - 214
    T4 - Rocco Mediate - 2:12 p EDT -2 68 73 73 - 214
    T10 - Miguel Angel Jimenez - 2:12 p EDT -1 72 74 69 - 215

    Looks Like Tiger has a very good chance to bring Buick back to the Winners circle and somebody might get the chance to win a Lucerne CXS Tiger Woods Edition. :shades:

    Rocky
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Wow, never would have guessed he was that old. Then again it has been about 4 years since I talked to him.
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    I suppose eventually we will be like the Russians with a steel drum in the middle of the living room, all huddled up throwing paper in the barrel to keep warm.

    That's probably what would result if we insisted on job security regardless market sustainability of the "jobs" like the Russians did for 70 years. See, it takes captital and labor to bring natural gas pipeline into well-insulated homes. Insisting on wasting natural resources, capital and labor on "lifetime jobs" at the Lada factory deprives the home builders and the gas company of the capital and labor required for building comfortable homes.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    G. Richard Wagoner
    Chief Executive Officer
    General Motors Corporation

    In 2004, G. Richard Wagoner raked in $9,957,020 in total compensation including stock option grants* from General Motors Corporation.

    And G. Richard Wagoner has another $5,000,000 in unexercised stock options from previous years.

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Jeffrey R. Immelt
    Chief Executive Officer
    General Electric Company

    In 2005, Jeffrey R. Immelt raked in $15,412,870 in total compensation including stock option grants* from General Electric Company.

    From previous years' stock option grants, the General Electric Company executive cashed out $3,821,450 in stock option exercises.

    And Jeffrey R. Immelt has another $15,957,010 in unexercised stock options from previous years.

    Rocky
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Oh is that like NASCAR? Does he drive the car on the course? No? Darn, no fun at all ! Let'em race the golf cart.

    Where is Fuzzy Zoeller when you need him?

    Now a Lucerne on the race course would be a sight. If ya can't out race'em, simply knock them off the track as they pass you by. :D

    -Loren
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Interesting article, Rocky. I live in Vegas, and have not heard of this, nor is there an 11 acre facility that I know of adjacent to the Sahara, except for the El Rancho land across the strip from the hotel. But Howard Hughes owned that land, and left strict instructions that the land was never to be sold or developed. Stupid after he's dead, and maybe the Hughes corporation has decided it's been long enough to keep that prime real estate vacant.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Looks like a growing list of manufactures installing OnStar. Does OnStar contribute to earnings?
    -Loren
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    you'll be building a great small car built to last, dudes. Take the cash and go build Kia's in Georgia!

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Former CEO of Bankrupt Delphi

    http://bwnt.businessweek.com/exec_comp/2004/index.asp

    Cooked the books to million$ in compensation. :sick:

    Rocky

    P.S.

    Here's another source on page 33 showing how much Battenburg was making when Delphi was putting up losses. :mad:

    http://www.aflcio.org/corporatewatch/capital/upload/BehindtheCurtain.pdf
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well (iluv) then what are they suppose to do when Kia goes bankrupt ???? Move to China and go work for Geely or Chery ? :confuse:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Yep on the Onstar !!!! Just like DirecTv did. I've always thought Selling DirecTv (Hughes) was a huge mistake by GM. :sick:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    LOL

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well I hope they do develop the land. ;)

    Rocky
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    I bet the Corvette gets a good workout, before being wrecked, and the rest of the cars sit idle. The concept shows someone is alive and thinking at GM. Hey, ya never know what may fly.

    A Corvette ride for $10??? Can't test drive them at the dealerships. The other cars I suppose are available to drive.
    I like to, when possible, test drive a couple year old model of the same car first to see how they are after break-in, or broke, time period.

    Will they let Tony Steward drive the test track :shades:
    -Loren
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    this Sunday April 9th.

    Did anyone see it ?

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Here's a link guys ;)

    http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?clip=/media/2006/04/09/- video1483037&sec=3460&vidId=3460&title=Challenges$@$For$@$General$@$Motors

    Gonna watch it. Be back in a bit.

    Rocky
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    I will hang onto my GM. If it becomes worthless I am still ahead of the game.

    As this board is not about personal financial management, I'll avoid a lengthy dissection of this comment. But let's just that your financial advisor would probably turn a bit green if this is a reflection of your portfolio management strategy.

    A basic rule of finance is that sunk costs don't matter. It doesn't matter what you paid for the stock or what you've derived from it thus far, the main investment question is what will happen with it going forward.

    Except for tax planning (capital gains or losses), what you paid for the stock is entirely irrelevant to what you should do next. Your buy, hold or sell decision should be based on the stock's expected performance.

    Given the near perfect storm on GM's horizon (falling sales, low margins, increasing borrowing costs), coupled with a product lineup is largely uninspiring (read: market share won't be increasing anytime soon) and fairly inept management is still at the helm (the most important determinant of a company's future success or failure), I wouldn't be betting big on the General. If the stock price is going to continue to fall, you'd be better off selling it and reinvesting the money into something that will actually appreciate.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I guess it's not much more than we (edmunds folks) already didn't know. ;)

    Rick needs to get out and promote the new products from GM to show that the company has reinvented itself to make the best cars. He is the one guy that might beable to change american perception as a whole torwards GM cars. It's first got to start with product and dealership treatment of the consumer. :shades:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Socala4,

    So you personally think GM won't beable to turn the ship around ?

    I'm atleast optimistic, but of course I don't own any GM shares of stock, unless they are in my 401K.

    Rocky
  • socala4socala4 Member Posts: 2,427
    I'm not sure what would happen, but I'll bet it gets worse before it gets better.

    GM needs to become a leaner, meaner company, and I see bankruptcy as a likely (although not absolutely certain) part of that future. Since there doesn't seem to be anyone there who is prepared to make massive, deep changes in the company's sales orientation, I just don't see it happening.
    For decades now, these guys have believed that cutting costs is the solution to everything, but lower costs don't make the cars more appealing for the consumer, which is who needs to be satisified if the company is going to be expected to turnaround.

    The other problem that I should have mentioned above is that the sale of GMAC is going to gut whatever profits that GM would have expected to make going forward. Since most stocks are valued based upon future earnings, a lackluster product lineup + no more GMAC profits = falling earnings --> falling stock price.
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    Classic beating around the bushes while ignoring the 800lb gorilla sitting in the middle of the livingroom. What difference would have made if Battenburg drew $0 salary or bonus? How long would Delphi burn through that extra $1 milion? Less time than it takes to type your post? Battenburg's failure was in not being able to make the company profitable. What pittance he got paid was quite immaterial given the billions of dollars wasted on overpaying the vast majority of personnel in that organization.

    BTW, if your earlier statement that you would never want to be a manager is representative of the workers in general, then clearly the managers are not being paid enough to shoulder the responsibilities that comes with the jobs. If you are trying to make the argument that managers are criminally corrupt, then it only goes to show that the positions need to have higher pay to attract good honest people like yourself ;-)
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Do any of you know if "I" baught a Saab, could I get it serviced at a GM dealership ???? :surprise:

    My problem is my nearest Saab dealership is in Lubbock, Tx. :sick: It's about a 2 1/2-3 hour drive which would make getting it serviced a problem.

    BTW- Do any of you like the new Volvo S-80 ? I'm very very impressed with the "fit and finish" of this car. I'm sure it's also going to be very very pricey :(

    I do hope the Next Saab's get that level of
    "fit and finish" while keeping Saab's trademarks.

    Rocky

    P.S. Here's a link to the Volvo S80 if ya haven't seen it yet. :surprise:

    http://www.volvocars.us/_campaigns/NewS80/Geneva/default.htm :shades:
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Very True........Hopefully they have a plan, even though we both are very skeptical.

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Classic beating around the bushes while ignoring the 800lb gorilla sitting in the middle of the livingroom. What difference would have made if Battenburg drew $0 salary or bonus?

    Well from the employees (management & union) perspective it looks like Battenburg took over Delphi, cooked the books to make million$ for a few years and left. :( His buddy Alan Dawes, was in on it and both walked away with no criminal charges and millions in their pockets. :mad: Battenburg had the Jack Smith philosophy of off-shore it which doesn't solve the situation or turn the company around in North America. So basically I'm saying Battenburg collected Millions in compensation and didn't contribute one thing to the benefit of the company.

    Steve Miller, has done more for Delphi in 6 months then Battenburg done in 6 or 7 years. Steve granted has ice water in his veins, but he atleast is attempting to fix the company, and of course he doesn't care one bit for his employees. ;) Steve is a crook also though.

    How long would Delphi burn through that extra $1 milion? Less time than it takes to type your post? Battenburg's failure was in not being able to make the company profitable. What pittance he got paid was quite immaterial given the billions of dollars wasted on overpaying the vast majority of personnel in that organization.

    Overpay the vast majority ??????? Out of the 220,000 Delphi employees, under 50K both union and management were here in the U.S. ;)

    BTW, if your earlier statement that you would never want to be a manager is representative of the workers in general, then clearly the managers are not being paid enough to shoulder the responsibilities that comes with the jobs.

    What responsibility ? Battenburg/Dawes did nothing benefitual for Delphi to earn their pay. The sad thing is these crooks got paid millions of dollars. He basically stole the money from the vault and left. God only knows where he is now ? How much more do you want to compensate crooks like these ?

    If you are trying to make the argument that managers are criminally corrupt, then it only goes to show that the positions need to have higher pay to attract good honest people like yourself

    No it goes to show me how many people are sick in the head over making money, and don't care about the company or it's employees. I suppose to many CEO's went to college on mommy's and daddy's bank roll. They don't appreciate hard "sweat" work. They think because they took 12 credit hours a semester for 8-10 years, they got the McGree and they are above and beyond anything in terms of intellegence and want to be paid for it.

    It's almost like a life-cycle that the very wealthy kids today are entitled to. It's mind boggling that these corporations hire these folks, when they never worked a day outside of a school room in their life, and they are going to tell the grunts the way it's going to be done at there level. :confuse:

    Rocky
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    Considering the venom you are using in attacking Steven Miller, who even you agree is making a good effor at the company, it goes to show that those in positions of responsibility deserve to be paid well just for the trouble.

    BTW, put a lid on that class warfare nonsense. Do you and your wife make more than $65k a year combined? If you do, your family is in the top-20% according to IRS, and therefore may as well be public enemy according to the class warriors. There is simply no end to this "who deserve what" business when the standards are fully divorced from the free market place; the bottom line is that, it can probably be argued that none of us deserve to be paid at all, and each one of us can be candidate for the guillotine (by some standard), as most class warfare warriors eventually find out when they get their dreams partially fufilled.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I'd love to have his responsibility and 1/4th of his compensation.(Miller)

    BTW- I don't make $65K a year, so I guess I'm not in the 20 percentile. Even if I was, I don't want to lower my country's standard of living for my short-term benefit of the top 5%

    The free market both goods and labor, I agree will raise the standard of living for those living in 3rd world country's.
    The negative affect will be the lowering of the standard of living of those living in wealthier nations like the United States.

    So brightness, are you willing to lower your country's standard of living, so you can sell your company's product/service to a more diverse population ?

    Globalization now has raised disposable income in third world country's giving you a broader populus to sell your product/service to and the ability to exploit that populus for "flexible" labor.

    I can understand why so many CEO's and Small-Corporate buisness owners have jumped on the globalization bandwagon. Why sell your product to 280-290 million, when you can sell it to 4+ Billion people. ;)

    I just don't understand why supporters of globalization throw up this "smoke screen" when the truth is so obvious and clear. I guess many think americans are dumb enough to buy it. Many I agree will still buy the smoke screen and refuse to look through the smoke to find the real agenda of politicians and big-buisness owners.

    I guess we are already seeing this country's wealth being pushed onto the roulette table. I guess being considered a peasant in this class warfare, my voice is reduced to a mumble :sick:

    Rocky
  • chuck1959chuck1959 Member Posts: 654
    Don't see any cash cows in the form of cars, other than SUVs, and when gas hits $3.50 a gallon - look out!

    I can't wait either FINALLY those gas guzzling energy wasting SUV'S will be gone. Although I'd hate to see the TC, GM and CV go. It's really the last ones this generation (people) can see what REAL cars were like.
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    If you bought a SAAB, you may have to find a close service department based on SAAB and VOLVO history of problems. Just look the at Consumer Reports book some day.

    In my town the Cadillac dealer has the SAAB. Actually lots of SAABs in stock. I haven't a clue as to why, unless they got them on a special half off sale from GM :confuse:

    Call up the local GM dealers and start talking in Swede and see if they can relate to you :D
    -Loren
  • chuck1959chuck1959 Member Posts: 654
    One Cadillac dealer here (Houston) sells Saab isn't that the new GM thing? Howerver I thought it was kind of odd that my Kia dealer sells Saab also.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    Kia's success story in this nation is really pretty enticing information. There is an association of Kia with Hyundai Motors, and Hyundai has risen back above the dark times of the late 80's to be successful. So that is no doubt helping Kia Motors gain customers.

    Kia has very smart engineering, marketing and planning teams that constantly watch market trends. Their success is not a flukey roll-of-the dice. It is a well-planned out phenomenon that is not even near over.

    Kia is not going to just fold because somebody or two or three in America decide to buy Obvio! vehicles or Geely or Chery vehicles instead. Kia's fan base is growing daily and as long as they continue building and delivering high quality vehicles at reasonable prices and offer The Long Haul Warranty along with them they will continue to grow in popularity in the U.S.

    GM and Ford are looking at a much more scaled-down future. Which is great news for me...I've seen the scaled-up GM's and Ford's and I'm not very impressed. :surprise:

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I can buy that for now. ;) Time will tell if Kia survives the Chin-E class dump we are about to see within the next year. :surprise:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Your funny. The 9-5 is interesting and currently is a pretty good deal. I'd be happy with one. If I haven't baught a car by the time the new models come out, then I might buy a new redesigned 9-5 or 9-3 Convertible.

    I also currently like the 9-3 Convertible. Want a bunch more power and AWD though. Right now I think they are to expensive for what you get. Maybe the next generation that is rumored to be made here in the U.S. will have more "value" ;)

    Also I hope GM is paying close attention to the other scandinavian builder (Volvo). The new S-80 is very cool :shades: and I like it alot. Hopefully GM will one-up the Volvo with it's next 9-5 design. "I can only hope" :)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Kia and Saab-Yikes! :surprise:

    Yeah the Caddy and Saab thing is quite common today.

    Rocky
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Oh no, not the Kia! Leave them out in the rain and they grow hair :D
    ......
    .. or was that Chia?

    Speaking of Kia and Hyundai, maybe GM needs to do the warranty thing to get back customers, since Hyundai and GM both have been synonomis with poor reliability in their past. If lowly Hyundai can make a turn around, then there is hope.... well maybe. Both Hyundai and GM cars, for the most part are looking better in the way of quality of materials, and overall reliability. One difference is the warranty. Oh yeah, and the added safety equipment which is standard on Hyundai.
    -Loren
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Agree with ya on eveything but your last sentence. ;)

    Rocky

    P.S.

    Kia's might have hair, but it's not under the hood. :P
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Does it say anything about Lexus - because I've heard on these boards that Lexus is dropping the Lexus Link for 07. Lexus Link is a desk in the OnStar building, with dedicated employees, but the same system. Wondering why, I have it. If they're dropping OnStar, they must have a better idea.....
  • brightness04brightness04 Member Posts: 3,148
    I'd love to have his responsibility and 1/4th of his compensation.(Miller)

    Are you sure? I thought Miller is taking $1/yr pay. Can you really live off 25 cents per year, plus your wife's income? with the new kid and all? I know having a kid ain't cheap ;-)

    The free market both goods and labor, I agree will raise the standard of living for those living in 3rd world country's.
    The negative affect will be the lowering of the standard of living of those living in wealthier nations like the United States.


    That's certainly not the case, as proven by "trade deficit" numbers. We are getting much more goods and services than we are providing the rest of the world.

    So brightness, are you willing to lower your country's standard of living, so you can sell your company's product/service to a more diverse population ?

    The reality is that trade makes both parties better off. That's the difference between free trade vs. government mandated wealth transfer. I'm actually against US aid programs to other countries; on the ground that it would be a zero-sum game. Trade, however, is a great way to improve standards of living on both ends of the tether.

    Globalization now has raised disposable income in third world country's giving you a broader populus to sell your product/service to and the ability to exploit that populus for "flexible" labor.

    I can understand why so many CEO's and Small-Corporate buisness owners have jumped on the globalization bandwagon. Why sell your product to 280-290 million, when you can sell it to 4+ Billion people.


    Okay, if importing is destroying American jobs, why isn't exporting considered creating American jobs? The beauty of free trade is that it promotes specialization and division of labor. The new jobs created are far more efficient use of human resources than the old ones displaced. Reference Adam Smith on "The Wealth of Nations."

    I guess being considered a peasant in this class warfare, my voice is reduced to a mumble

    Your voice would be a lot louder and a lot more convincing if the free-trade advantage over protectionism had not been recognized some three hundred years ago, and been proven true again and again ever since.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    sad day when Americans almost seem to be happy when American companies go out of business..
    I feel GM and Ford are not going anywhere. Thier North American sales are down, not worldwide sales. GM and Ford will rebound. Its going to be painful but I feel confident they will rebound.
    There is a show on called Autoline Detroit. The host is very industry and car savy. He has guests on from all aspects of the car industry and all car compainies. So don't let the name "Autoline Detroit" fool you. He made a very good point and backed it up with actual quality and reliability data from across the car industry. GM and Ford actually build very good vehicles and can and do go head to head with Honda/Toyota/Nissan you name it. Perception is the key here. Ford and GM need to win over the public perception game. The media has been bashing GM and Ford every chance it gets.
    Ever watch MotorWeek? They had a Honda Odessey that had problems.. never once did they bash Honda.. If it had been a GM van or Ford van.. look out..
  • gtgtcobragtgtcobra Member Posts: 268
    I love KIA. KIA vehicles are excellent quality and the good thing is that KIA is owned by Hyundai.
    Don't worry about GM. It will not be around for very long. The Koreans are increasing their market share in the U.S. as GM is losing market share. GM has to get on the ball and build better looking cars.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Are you sure? I thought Miller is taking $1/yr pay. Can you really live off 25 cents per year, plus your wife's income? with the new kid and all? I know having a kid ain't cheap

    Oh you failed to mention his $3 million dollar sign on bonus he got to keep. So that $1 dollar is now $3,000,001 :P

    That's certainly not the case, as proven by "trade deficit" numbers. We are getting much more goods and services than we are providing the rest of the world.

    And that's a good thing ? :surprise:

    Okay, if importing is destroying American jobs, why isn't exporting considered creating American jobs? The beauty of free trade is that it promotes specialization and division of labor. The new jobs created are far more efficient use of human resources than the old ones displaced. Reference Adam Smith on "The Wealth of Nations."

    You criticize me for getting my info/intellegence from the media, but you get yours from a book. :confuse:

    BTW- We import far more than we export, thus a trade deficit isn't benefitual like you "spin it".

    Your voice would be a lot louder and a lot more convincing if the free-trade advantage over protectionism had not been recognized some three hundred years ago, and been proven true again and again ever since.

    So my protectionist voice is "damaging" the growth of the U.S. economy. Well brightness I'd rather grow at a steady slow rate with good jobs, versus having millions of Micky D's type jobs. In a free market society, their won't be any good jobs left for ordinary folks. The middle class is the majority, and when it crashes and can't afford to buy goods with disposable income, who's going to pick up the slack until the Chinese and India raise their incomes high enough to buy goods ? We the middle class are shrinking year by year at a faster rate than the average Chinese person's disposable income increases. :confuse:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Don't worry Chery and Geely will soon send Kia and Hyundai into bankruptcy....Right where they belong. :mad:

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    I agree with you 100% pal. It's funny and sad how the foreign car company's get a "pass" on the "bash". :sick:

    Rocky
This discussion has been closed.