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TLong is right, this is an example of typical GM shortsightedness.
You don't seem to understand -- Toyota will likely have decades to recoup its investment, this technology will be evolved and eventually allocated across numerous products, not just the Prius. Elements of this will likely end up in other cars for many years and decades to come.
Even better, by gaining first-mover advantage, Toyota will be in a position to license its technology to other automakers. Rather than invest the R&D money themselves to get an unproven result, some competing automakers will be inclined to pay Toyota for the right to build their own versions, or perhaps even buy components from TMC. End result -- Toyota may find itself profiting even from the sale of non-Toyota cars.
This is the kind of dinosaur thinking that put GM in a bind in the first place. I'll bet Toyota eventually earns more profits from hybrid technology than GM ever will from the Saab 9-7X.
Rocky
Rocky, maybe I haven't seen the good GM engines. All I know is that when I've rented a GM car, even though the acceleration may be good and the transmission shifts are impressively smooth, the vibration and noise that comes from the engine is very noticably worse than I've seen from Honda and Toyota (and VW and Audi, for that matter). Is that due to pushrods? I don't know, but I really don't care about what the technology is, I care about how the engine sounds and feels. Refinement is what creates a perception of quality. Maybe there are some better GM engines that I've not experienced.
Honda I agree perhaps makes the best engines overall...
It's interesting that Honda was first and foremost, an engine company. They made motorcycles. They made lawnmowers. They then started making small cars. They make generators. Their true expertise is engines. They came up with CVCC in the '70's and at the time were the only manufacturer that *didn't* need a catalytic converter, due to their sophistication in engine technology. They came up with one of the first and cheapest ways to have variable valve timing (VTEC). And while the Prius gets the big news, it was Honda that was first with a production hybrid in the US (the Insight).
I actually think it is very impressive that an engine company managed to become very good at making cars, too.
What is a sad contrast is that a company with the name General Motors doesn't seem to have focused on being a leader in the making of Motors, but also doesn't seem to have focused on leading in the making of cars, either. About the only area of leadership you could argue is trucks and large SUVs, which is a pretty narrow market for the #1 auto manufacturer.
GM is still behind Ford in the creative dept.
Pushrods will never be as smooth, but that doesn't mean they won't last as long pal.
Hopefully GM in the near future will stash money torwards Engine R&D
Rocky
NEW YORK-- Delphi Corp. can offer as many as 13,000 hourly employees lump sum payments of $35,000 to retire, a bankruptcy judge ruled Friday, marking a key milestone in its effort to scale back staff amid falling production.
Troy, Mich.-based Delphi, one of the world's largest suppliers of auto parts, filed for bankruptcy protection in October and is trying to shed what it says are increasingly unsustainable labor agreements that have left it overstaffed and saddled with costly benefit programs.
Judge Robert Drain, of the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Manhattan, approved Delphi's plan to offer eligible employees a $35,000 lump sum payment in exchange for their retirement. The payments will be funded by former parent General Motors Corp., which agreed to do so under a broader labor deal.
Delphi, GM and their largest union, the United Auto Workers, announced that deal in March. Under the agreement, some 113,000 GM workers could be eligible for early retirement incentives or buyouts of between $35,000 and $140,000, depending on seniority and whether they want to keep health care and other benefits.
At Delphi, GM's former parts division and largest supplier, 13,000 UAW-represented workers could be eligible for the retirement payments of $35,000. In addition, 5,000 Delphi workers will be eligible to return to GM.
The agreement, which both GM and Delphi say is key to turning around their businesses, hinged on Delphi getting permission from the bankruptcy court.
Delphi has said its operating costs will drop significantly if enough workers opt in to the plan, though it won't know the full amount of savings or costs of the plan until employees sign up. Delphi says it now pays workers upward of $78 an hour in wages, benefits and "legacy" costs such as retiree health care and pensions.
The company has blamed its financial struggles in part on union contracts it inherited in its spinoff from GM in 1999.
Last week, Delphi filed a request with the bankruptcy court seeking permission to void its labor contracts and retiree benefits. The UAW, which represents 70 percent of Delphi's hourly workers, has threatened to strike if the court agrees. A hearing on this issue is set for May 9.
In a separate matter earlier Friday, Drain indicated he would approve a recently reached agreement between GM and unsecured creditors of Delphi that are looking to challenge GM if the auto maker attempts to seize big payouts from a restructured Delphi.
Delphi's unsecured creditors committee, which includes representatives from companies including Electronic Data Systems Corp. and General Electric Co., wants GM to provide it with various documents so that creditors can examine any claims GM has made or makes on Delphi's assets
On Friday, attorneys in the case said GM and the unsecured creditors have reached an agreement in which GM will cooperate with the committee so long as the parties can agree to the scope and other terms of the creditors' inquiry.
The parties plan to file their agreement with the bankruptcy court.
TOYOTA, Japan -- Satoshi Ogiso was in his office redesigning Camrys and Tercels when the young auto engineer was suddenly ordered to switch gears and join a secret mission "to come up with a whole new car for the 21st century."
Toyota Motor Corp.'s top management, Ogiso said, had read the wind. Believing that higher oil prices and the rise of eco-conscious consumers would spark surging demand for super-efficient autos, they ordered up what would become the prototype for the Toyota Prius.
The gas-electric hybrid reached U.S. shores in 2000, defying industry naysayers by becoming one of Toyota's hottest new models. Eager clients in the United States are still waiting two months or more for delivery as the futuristic hybrids roll off the assembly lines as fast as Toyota can make them in this booming city in central Japan.
As the company was busy unveiling the Prius, its U.S. competitors at General Motors Corp. and Ford Motor Co. were heading down a completely different road. Both companies were pouring cash into gas-guzzling sport-utility vehicles and minivans, sales of which tanked as oil prices shot up.
Analysts say the foresight and planning that went into the development of the world's first mass-produced hybrid underscore how Toyota has managed to leave the struggling U.S. automakers in the dust -- and why it is likely to stay ahead for years to come.
Toyota is poised to overtake ailing General Motors this year as the world's largest automaker in terms of units sold. It is a title, industry experts say, that the 69-year-old company could win through a combination of efficiency, flexibility, quality control and, most importantly, an uncanny sixth sense for what consumers want.
"The early development of the Prius put Toyota at least two years ahead of the Big Three in one of the fastest-growing car segments," said Noriyuki Matsushima, managing director at Nikko Citigroup Ltd. in Tokyo. "Toyota has succeeded in reinventing the idea of automaking and corporate efficiency in a manner that has everybody else in the industry playing catch-up."
In the midst of massive layoffs and plant closures, General Motors and Ford are struggling for survival. Meanwhile, Toyota is projected to post record profit this year after nearly doubling production and opening seven factories over the past five years.
The U.S. automakers have linked much of their woes to massive "legacy costs" -- or generations of generous benefit packages to its unionized employees. Industry experts say General Motors' health-care and pension expenses amount to roughly $2,000 more per vehicle than Toyota's.
But analysts say those costs tell only part of the story. Pegged in the post-World War II era as a maker of inexpensive cars, Toyota commands a record 13.3 percent of the U.S. market -- up from 12.2 percent in 2004 -- even though many of its models are more expensive than their American counterparts.
Toyota has avoided layoffs or major labor disputes for more than half a century while maintaining an industry edge in cross-training line workers to build multiple cars on the same assembly lines. Inside Toyota's sprawling Tsutsumi plant here -- one of two in Japan that make the Prius -- workers produce seven models on two assembly lines, changing tasks every two hours.
The relentless push for efficiency often takes shape in small ways. Two years ago, the company came up with a new process in which parts for specific models were presorted into blue boxes that travel down the line as each car is assembled. Though low-tech and inexpensive to put into effect, it significantly sped up the product line and saved space by doing away with the need for workers to seek out different auto parts from storage bins. It was one of roughly 600,000 small improvements Toyota makes annually.
"Toyota is the Tiger Woods of flexibility and efficiency; they've got everybody a few strokes behind," said Ron Harbour, head of Harbour Consulting, publisher of an annual auto industry productivity report. "Often, it's nothing that makes you sit back and go 'wow.' They're little things, thousands of little things that add up to a huge advantage."
Analysts say the Prius marks an inventive milestone for Toyota. Although it accounts for only a tiny fraction of the record 9 million vehicles Toyota expects to produce this year, the Prius was an atypical risk for a company that has become more known for quality and consistency than innovation.
Toyota has been toying with hybrid engines for the past 20 years. But the company began to seriously pursue a mass-producible hybrid in 1993. Ogiso, 45 years old and now the chief engineer on the third-generation Prius still under development, said the edict came from Eiji Toyoda, the patriarch of the Toyota family who headed the company until 1994.
Ogiso said Toyoda had grown increasingly concerned that gas-engine auto manufacturing would eventually become a sunset industry given the limits of global oil supplies and increasing pressure to curb emissions. Focused more on a long-term advantage than the short-term gains that U.S. automakers are under pressure from Wall Street to produce, Toyota put hundreds of engineers to work on creating a new engine that would double average gas mileage and cut emissions by 80 percent. Conventional engines were quickly ruled out. "We found that the only way to achieve that goal was building a whole new type of car," Ogiso said.
In the United States, an unconventional car called for unconventional marketing, and Toyota began selling the Prius via the Internet to generate a buzz. It worked. Hollywood celebrities, including Cameron Diaz and Leonardo DiCaprio, stepped in, scooping up the eco-friendly car in which even the floor mats are made from recyclable sugar cane.
The Prius hit a vein of gold. Despite a premium price, sales vastly outpaced Toyota's expectations. The car sold 107,897 units in the United States in 2005 -- about double the 2004 volume. Toyota quickly rolled out other hybrid models, including Lexus and Highlander versions, selling 235,000 worldwide in 2005, up from 134,000 a year earlier.
Some credit the success of the Prius to lucky timing -- sales took off just as gas prices were skyrocketing. But many who initially scoffed at the idea -- including General Motors and Ford -- have become true believers. Both companies have rolled out hybrids of their own.
But Toyota is banking on staying one step ahead.
"We knew were on the right path," Ogiso said. "And we were."
http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060408/AUTO01/604080343/- 1148
Rocky
Rocky
Date posted: 04-08-2006
DETROIT — OnStar President Chet Huber said his company will unveil a new service in June to let customers know if their vehicle is E85 compatible and help them find ethanol filling stations.
Customers will receive an e-mail telling them where ethanol filling stations are in their area — or they can press the OnStar button in their vehicle and get help from a representative.
Huber said OnStar is also working on another new service that would alert customers when their tires are underinflated. "Even minor underinflation has an impact on fuel economy," Huber said. He would not say when that service would start, only that it will make its debut in the "short term."
OnStar is also teaming with the Mayo Clinic and the University of Michigan to develop more sophisticated ways of alerting emergency personnel at places like level-one trauma centers and air ambulances when severe car crashes occur. Such a setup could conceivably send such information as how severe the impact was, whether multiple impacts occurred, and whether the vehicle rolled over. This would speed the response of emergency personnel, he said.
What this means to you: OnStar, which started out as simple roadside assistance, has pretty sophisticated ambitions.
Now this is pretty cool in my opinion
Rocky
DETROIT — General Motors may build its own wholly owned assembly plant in Russia, separate from its joint venture with Russia's Avtovaz that builds Chevrolet Nivas and Hummers, according to an unnamed source cited by The Wall Street Journal today.
General Motors already has a joint venture, in place since 2001, with Avtovaz that builds the Niva, designed and built in Russia and badged as a Chevrolet. Chevrolet is the second most popular foreign auto brand in Russia, the Journal reports. Earlier this week, GM said it would respond to that popularity by increasing production of Chevrolets and Hummers in Russia.
GM Vice Chairman Robert Lutz, quoted by the Journal, said it was "premature" to talk about any GM plans to build an assembly plant in the country. He said GM is focusing on its Avtovaz venture and its Kaliningrad facility to build Chevrolets and Hummers from imported kits.
What this means to you: General Motors continues to go far afield for growth markets around the world. If it can ever get North America in order, things could really get good in a hurry around Motown.
What this means to me:
Instead of Chinese Built Buicks, we might get Russian built Chevy's
BTW- I talked to dad today and he seemed worried about a Delphi strike. His less fortunate co-workers that have let's say 20-26 years in at Delphi, said if I'm going to lose everything I got, then everyone else should also. There is a huge number of Delphi workers that are not very far from retirement but short of the cut-off date of 27 years that don't care anymore since there pensions will be frozen, thus they will have to work until they are 65 to draw $1250 a month since there pension was frozen. The fire is just beginning to warm up at Delphi, and if GM want's to save itself, it better expand the transfer list back to GM, or guarantee those EX-GMers a pension.
Dad, says he can't blame them and hopes a broader deal can be reached. Back when he started a 401K wasn't a option, and so it's really hard to blame the GM folks for not putting money into one. most of them invested money into real estate and many have rent houses for extra income.
It will get interesting here in the upcoming weeks.....
Rocky
can you show me a pic. I'm not sure what a 56' Russian Packard looks like ?.... :surprise:
Rocky
As for the previous comments:
***
While I haven't driven the 3800 in a laCrosse or Lucerne, I do know that it serves just fine for the driving that I do in my full-sized cars.
***
Ah. You really should. The problem is the 4 tall as a mountinain gears and a big engine with most of its torque up high.
***
>Please don't rev me to death
I thought high reving of OHC motors was desirable as opposed to torque of OHV motors? I don't understand.
***
Yes, it is, but for a luxury car, flogging the engine like a 4-banger isn't fitting with the image or the type of ride you want. Mated to a silly tall gearset, you get the following...
***
>Hit the pedal for half a second and let it off
I don't understand the goal here. When I want to go from 40-60, I push on the accelerator and the car accelerates at a nice, safe pace to 60. If I want to accelerate faster I press the pedal more and the car may downshift rather than disengage only the TCC and I accelerate briskly.
***
The problem is the engine bogs - there's *ZERO* power for small throttle changes - so it's either whomp on it or slowly coast up to speed. For 200HP, it drives like 120HP if you want to say, go from 25-35mph quickly, but no faster. Say, you went from a business/promenade type district to normal streets and the limit changed to 35mph.
***
If I want to go FAST I floor it and I get rapid movement with lots of motor noise; somewhat like my neighbor across the road with his 3 3.5RLs. When they're in a hurry leaving the driveway, they sound like lawnmowers.
***
Except - the 3.6 and the V8 - you dont have to flog them. Or downshift at all for moderate changes. Go drive a Mercedes S class, even an old one. See what I mean - you are going 30mph and want to go 40mph? Press the pedal a little bit - done. Engine didn't even shift or make much more noise. You just instantly went faster.
The big deal with this is revving the engine and going from no torque to lots of it does ugly things with the softer luxury suspensions - the car tends to lurch and you can't easily go from 30-40mph without tending to overshoot since the pedal feels like it has only three settings - off, grandmother, and racer.
Welcome to the 3800/4 speed combo that we all love
***
The characteristics you seem to want a car and its motor to have are those of a hotrod car (not a bad thing) while many people buy a car for smooth, economical travel around their area and cross country.
***
But with a good engine with tons of low-rpm torque, you get both - effortless midrange movement and no lurching or downshifting.
And you don't need 5 gears that try to learn for you and shift at the wrong places, like in the Toyotas. The Buick transmission is so amazingly EVEREST LOOKS SMALL DOWN THERE tall that it actually works - finally - with the V8.
The transmission is spot-on, quick, and the new reactive suspension is fantastic. The dealer drove to a quiet street where she could switch with me. Right before then, we got to a corner and she went around it at 20mph like an IS300. Zero float, no body lean - and then went from 20-40mph, then came to a very fast stop at the side of the road.
Just... wow. Not a "Old Man's Buick" - this Buick has teeth and good suspension. Reminded me of a 1995 Mercedes S420. Big, fast, solid. Better than the new luxury barges? Not even. Cheaper than a E-Class? Loads, especially since you can find a 2006 used on the lot in 6 months, when the 2007s are out for a bit over 20K.
***
Two different goals. If I want a hot car I'd pick up a Vette or BMW. If I want an economical to own and maintain car that gets great mileage I'll pick up another Buick.
***
Yet you can have both. Drive the 3800 and the 3.6 Now wonder why Buick didn't offer the 3.6 in the Lucerne. It's so bad that the choice is either a LaCrosse 3.6 or a Lucerne V8. If Buick ditched the 3800 entirely from both lines, it would help sales immensely.
"Want a Lucerne? Sorry - only comes in a 4.6L V8."
I can live with that. The only used ones anyone will even touch will be the V8s anyways.
Rocky
P.S. great post.
Rocky
Rocky
Rocky
Pushrods do not cause roughness by themselves. The basic problem with pushrods is that they add weight to the valve train which limits the top speed of the engine.
Rocky
What is that ? A Bismarck on Wheels :surprise:
Rocky
is behind Ford, on Hybrids and most everything else.
I know we are slamming GM, but Ford will go belly-up before GM. look at their latest product offerings. Besides the Mustang, it's pretty unimpresive and the new Superduty looks like a Dodge Ram that had to close of an encounter with the trash compactor. :P
Rocky
Sure, it's not a 6-second 0-60 tire-eating monster, nor does it have real wood(save some trees, anyone?) - but... I bet you that you can get one used a year from now for about $25K.
At that price, it'll be a wonderful car. Buick is doing the same thing Hyundai is - making a previous generation top-end car for a lot less money. Compare a Hyundai sedan to a 1990s Buick or Chevy - very simmilar. Compare the Lucerne to a 1990s big Benz. At the time, it was one of the top ten cars in the world. Reviewers are jaded. Horribly so. It's more car for $30K than most people could have dreamed of ten years ago.(33K is easily haggle-able and in a few months, 3K in rebates will be coming)
$30K. That's worth a second look, since it's better than the $40K Park Ave it replaced.
Better than the competition? No, about the same. Cheaper by far, especially used? Definately.
Driving impressions:
I'm so tired of reviewers panning it because it doesn't have 20 gears. GM - if you are reading this - don't change it at all.
4-speed with tall gearing is a perfect spot-on match for the V8. With a high-revving V6 that develops most of its torque up high, you need lots of gears. And, Toyota's models are a disaster from what I hear, plagued with all sorts of problems. Plus, $3000 to replace!(checked this yesterday - $3000 fo a Camry or Avalon tranny!) Holy crud that's a lot of Dinero for a transmisson. GM's can be rebuilt for $1600 all over town.
With the ruler-flat torque of the Northstar, it drives very nicely. Fewer shifts and less hunting for a gear as well.
What does this mean? Why do you want 4 gears and a big flat-torque-curve V8? Simple - If the torque shifts less and has almost no peak in it, it enables the designers to make a car that has no torque-steer. It enables you as the driver to predict the power of the car and compensate easily.
BWUH? Yes - the car is FWD car, but for the first time... you don't notice it at all! Going through twisties and traffic, it's as predictable as an old diesel Merdeces. The 3800, the Avalon, the Accura engines - made to go great 0-60 for flat-out testing, but labor at low rpms and in slower city driving.
A Towncar drives very simmilar. The Northstar has beautuful merging characteristics as well - pushes itself to the right speed, then pushes itself into traffic without revving or downshifting.
The Avalon may be faster, but it's "jittery" - the engine labors and is peaky and noisy to get that speed and power, and the thing is working hard- so that a little shifting problem with the transmission literally makes it undriveable.
In bike terms, the Buick is a Harley. U.S.-Made, big, powerful, and oozes low-end grunt. It's not as technically advanced as the Hondas and BMWs, nor does it scream up to 175mph through 6-7 gears like the crotch-rockets, but it is a fantastic, solid experience nonetheless for those of us who want some luxury and don't plan to break the speed limits.
Yes, reviewers don't like Harleys, either. But people buy lots of them.
If you want sportier - the LaCrosse with the 3.6 is the replacement for the Regal GS - and its torque-curve is even better than the Lucerne. At a few hundred pounds lighter, they both drive surprizingly the same. Nobody complains about Harleys having a 4-speed gearbox.
P.S. yep - I love low-end grunt and diesels. If I pay $30K or more for any car, I want it to be smooth, effortless, and powerful. I like the Ford Crown Vic, but it's well - a Ford and the interior is pathetic. And try to find one used that isn't thrashed from taxi or police use.
Compare this to a Towncar or a Lexus or E-Class - then realize it's a LOT less money, like the Crown Vic is - v8 power for $22K is a solid selling point for many. $30K for V8 with luxury - not too shabby.
I have driven the 06 Explorer - it's quieter than ever before, rides better, handles better. Ok, it doesn't look any better, possibly worse. Styling paralysis strikes again.... But a groundbreaking platform from the General? LOL.... That's a good one.
I'm sorry, but I don't see it. The 500 is a design bomb, otherwise, it's not so bleak there, plus, they are not a 500lb Gorilla, only a 100lb Gorillaette. Possible to save.
I've never driven or even ridden in a Lucerne, but I think it's pretty impressive looking given the relic it replaces. The FWD is really the only drawback for the enthusiast. I think it will be a success. My mother might be car shopping soon, and I'd think of steering her into a year-old example, if she could deal with the size and the Buick badge (she's gone past 60 and it's an old persons make to her).
Chrysler, Toyota, Honda, and Hyundai are all advancing. Will be really interesting to see is how Ford does compared to GM.
-Loren
-Loren
GM has more than paid me back in dividends over the years I have owned it. If I sell, it is just more capitol gains to pay. If I had bought Toyota I would have not received any dividend. You go ahead and buy TM. I will hang onto my GM. If it becomes worthless I am still ahead of the game.
http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060409/AUTO01/604090379/- 1148
Rocky
For more than 100,000 U.S. factory workers, the historic buyout deal brokered by General Motors Corp., Delphi Corp. and the United Auto Workers comes down to a simple choice: Keep working and risk losing their jobs down the road, or take the money and run.
Simple, but not easy.
They are the last generation of autoworkers who expected to punch in at one company their entire working lives and be rewarded with hefty wages -- many can earn more than $100,000 a year with overtime -- and comfortable pensions.
For them, the buyout offer essentially represents a broken promise -- the promise of a job for life. They greet that fact in varied ways. With stubborn refusal. With dreams of a new career after decades of factory life. With hopes of transferring to a job given up by another.
The buyout program is one of the largest in corporate history. All of GM's U.S. factory workers -- 113,000 -- can take cash incentives ranging from $35,000 to retire early, to $140,000 for workers with less seniority to simply leave the company.
At Delphi, GM's former parts unit, 17,000 U.S. hourly workers can take $35,000 to retire. Of those not eligible, some hope talks related to Delphi's bankruptcy involving Delphi, GM and the supplier's unions will end with a cash offer to leave.
Others want to be among the 5,000 UAW workers GM has said can transfer to the automaker. Still others are scrambling for jobs at factories that will stay open as Delphi restructures, even if it means a deep pay cut.
They all face deeply personal choices.
"When you get a buyout, you're now in the driver's seat, you're now responsible for your career," says career coach Prudence Cole of Grosse Pointe, who runs www.beingatwork.com.
"You can choose to stay or you can choose to leave, but it's all about you. That can be fearful, but it's an opportunity to decide what's important for you."
At GM and Delphi, some workers will insist on staying. Some won't be able to cash out fast enough. The rest will go with their guts and hope for the best. But they are all weighing the money against the risks, and their hopes against their fears.
http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060409/AUTO01/604090309/- 1148
http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060409/AUTO01/604090316/- 1148
http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060409/AUTO01/604090317/- - 1148
Louis Horvath, who started at GM in 1963, is passing on an early retirement bonus to stay on until 2007. His wife is Anne.
Louis Horvath's Chevy Astro van lasted for 16 years and 154,000 miles. "He had to put duct tape on it to hold it together," notes his wife, Anne.
It's the same treatment Horvath, 69, is giving to his GM career. He's been planning to retire when the current UAW contract runs out in August 2007, and he's sticking to it. Even a $35,000 retirement bonus isn't going to change his mind.
"It's not worth it," he says flatly. "You take taxes out of there, and it's $22,000. Thirty-five thousand -- I can make that much in three months."
His friends, other skilled tradesmen at the plant, have said they plan to stay and stick it out, Horvath says.
"But a lot of production is going to leave. Some of them, they work the hell out of them. They get 3,300 converters for Toledo a day. That's about four a minute. You see in the paper all the time that autoworkers are overpaid and a bunch of drunks. They're working their butts off."
Horvath joined GM in 1963, and worked on the production line for 13 years, including a stint making torque converters. "Back in the early '70s, I worked 11 years on the converter line. They weighed 60 or 70 pounds apiece. We did 2,800 a night plus scraps and reruns. I used to come home, and my arm would hurt so much I couldn't sleep at night. My boss said, 'If you don't like it, quit.' "
Horvath is the only one in his family to work at GM, though he has a brother who works for Ford Motor Co. His daughter teaches school in Belleville, and he has a 2-year-old grandson.
Horvath says GM has been good to its workers, but adds, "Management has really got to come back down to earth. They don't want anybody any more, they want contractors. They talk about 75-cent wages in China. You can't even buy a cup of coffee in this country for that."
"I'm nearly 70 and a lot of people don't make it to 70," Horvath says. "I'll have 44 years in. That's enough."
But putting in his retirement papers next year won't be the end to his working days.
"We just bought a new house, and I've got lots of work here."
On the day Delphi asked a federal bankruptcy court to void its labor contracts and announced it intends to shut 21 U.S. plants, the sharp throbbing pain in Meghan Cofield's right elbow returned.
It was the same affliction that began three years ago on the job at the Delphi facility in Dayton, Ohio, where Cofield lifts hundreds of heavy-duty truck mounts as she sorts and packages them. It eventually got so bad she couldn't turn a doorknob. After four cortisone shots didn't work, she had tendon surgery last month and is in physical therapy learning to get her grip back.
She thinks the return of the pain is probably stress-related. With only 11 years on the line, she is not eligible for early retirement.
Delphi has said if the UAW agrees to wage cuts, employees with lower seniority would be eligible for buyouts. The union has said it won't accept the offer, but negotiations continue.
Whatever happens, the engaged 33-year-old still has a 16-year-old son to raise.
"I can't find out any concrete information," Cofield says. "I keep going online to read The Detroit News and any news source I can find to try to keep up, but everything changes from one day to the next. One day I think I may be eligible for a buyout, but now I don't know. Now, I'm thinking I have to try to get in Vandalia," referring to a nearby Ohio plant slated to stay open.
But six Ohio plants may shut, so the competition to get into Vandalia likely will be tough, and Cofield has no idea where she ranks in seniority. "I want to be able to land on my feet and go to nursing school," she says.
She was 21 when she started at Delphi. Her son was 4, and she was attending college full time, majoring in sociology.
"My whole life felt like different full-time shifts. I worked a full-time shift at the plant, then did a shift at home taking care of my son, and then I went to school full time. I didn't sleep much."
She had one more year to go for her degree when Delphi doubled her pay to $22.50 an hour. Finally having a financial cushion, she dropped out of school.
Since Delphi filed for bankruptcy in October, she hasn't been sleeping much. The lowest moments, she says, are when her son sees her crying.
"We were promised a lot of things in our contract. To me, the way we are portrayed in the media is unfair. We're just trying to live a decent life. I just want out."
"Trying to retire from Delphi just doesn't make sense to a whole lot of people," says Robert Betts, 45, who can qualify for early retirement after 27 years at GM and Delphi. "How can you trust them?"
That's the question facing Betts, president of UAW Local 2151 at Delphi's Coopersville fuel injector plant, and thousands of his co-workers at the bankrupt auto supplier.
Coopersville is one of five Delphi factories in Michigan slated to close or be consolidated.
Betts wants to transfer back to GM so he can retire immediately with GM benefits and launch a new career. He can name at least a dozen Delphi workers in his plant who would also like to make that jump.
No one Betts knows wants to rely on a pension and retirement health insurance from Delphi.
Like most UAW local officials, Betts is in overdrive trying to keep his members informed about the drama tied to bankruptcy proceedings in New York.
There are jam-packed informational meetings at the union hall. And he routinely updates the local's Web site.
One of the toughest days came last month when a judge approved bonuses worth $87.9 million for 486 Delphi executives when the supplier is sold or emerges from bankruptcy.
"You hear that, and yet how is it the rank-and-file get labeled as greedy for wanting a decent wage and a package so that we can retire in peace?" he asks.
Betts, married for 25 years and father of a 22-year-old son, looks forward to a new career.
"A lot of us see the possibilities, and really the responsibilities we have to our community," he says.
"Our members have tremendous transferable skills in manufacturing and technology, and we're pretty eager to put them to use. As a whole, we have such a tremendous economic impact, and we are going to find ways to continue to be valuable assets.
"Personally, I can see myself going into the nonprofit sector. This battle of keeping jobs that pay an honest wage to workers has just begun. I want to keep Michigan's economy strong."
One of the first big tests is whether Delphi workers will strike, as they've threatened if the bankruptcy judge lets Delphi throw out its labor contracts and impose concessions.
"Our actions will be commensurate to the actions that Delphi takes with its workers," Betts said. "If they provoke a strike, that's what they will get."
Robert Betts
Age: 45
Home: Grand Rapids
Job: President of UAW Local 2151, which represents workers at Delphi's Coopersville fuel injector plant
Years on the job: 27
Status: Hopes to flow back to GM and retire immediately
I'm not sure I can call the Park AVenue and leSabre "relics." The Lucerne is longer than leSabre, longer wheelbase than both, and looks great.
Your mother needs something more sporty like a RWD 300 or a Vette. Seriously, the RWD/FWD is a little like reading car mags reviews. Most people will find FWD best for their driving; a few desire RWD.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The OnStar system has one thing over cell phones in that there are very few deadspots.
The answer is to take the money, run to Georgia, and get a job building Kias.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I do wish there was a G6 sized Buick, though. I personally like the Saab 5 series - I think it'd be a good choice for her - the turbo gives it enough power. Selling my father on anything other than a Lexus or Buick/Caddy - well... lol - another story.
As for being relics - the platform was horribly dated when it came to ride, noise, and the 3800 engine(which is fine with a supercharger, btw - but no more superchargers, so...) It felt very "90s", except for the interior on the Ultra. The Park Ave Ultras were Caddy nice inside - but with none of the engineering refinements. I mean - same engine? They can stuff a V8 into a $25K SUV as a $3000 option but not a Park Avenue? Things had slipped.
The Lucerne V8 is a working-man's Cadillac. Which is more fitting with what Buick's top-end model originally was. Same engines, same design, less bling and gizmos and a chunk less money as well. $8-10K less than a simmilarly equipped Cadillac, in fact. In that light, it's a steal - little haggling, little bit of incentives - $30K for a Cadillac with a Buick emblem and grille isn't bad at all.
(or $20K for one in a year - that's cheap for what it is)
Rocky