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Speaking of hybrids and gas mileage. A strange thing happened in the Civic line. No more 44 MPG Civic HX cars. Those got nearly as good a mileage as does the hybrid car. Maybe too good? Some people got as high as 50 MPG ( or that may be an urban legend ).
-Loren
Ah the old question as to how you see the glass.....
Guess it is not a question of is the glass half empty, or half full, but one of how many it will take to decide if the glass is half full or empty, how long it takes to realized where the other half went, and how many it will take to refill the glass. And in the end, if a smaller glass will make for a full one.
-Loren
( I think I need some sleep )
They may be hoping against hope, but the writing is on the wall.It might help to look at this chart: GM share prices. GM stock has lost 60% of its value in two years, and management is trying to keep it together for as long as possible. It will be quite a rumble (although not a surprise) if GM's stock value falls so low that it ends up being delisted from the NYSE. (It would be more than a bit ironic if Toyota shares were traded on the NYSE, while GM's were not.)
OTOH you could wait until this fall and get over 30 mpg hwy :P
Rocky
Rocky
P.S. Cheers on the drink :P
Rocky
Rocky
Granted it's outdated, but it's not a mistake buying one.
Rocky
Look at who's driving it before you knock the figures.
Rocky
Rocky
2007' promises to be the breaking point for GM.
Rocky
Rocky
It will be most interesting since I've raised similar questions in the past. I guess it will depend on how good the products are from China. If China can manufactor a Sonata for let's say $9,000 then everyone will suffer. If they are able to make a Mercedes Benz knock off for let's say $25-30 thousand and it looks and drives at 75% as the real thing, then not ony will the Big 3 be in trouble, but the asians as well. I'm not sure if the Asians can play a price war with the Chinese Governemnt backed automanufactors. The question is will the Japanese Government subsidize their automanufactors while the price war takes place. President Bush has already told Rick Wagoner and Uncle Bill hell no!!!!
If the Chinese are very successful at dumping their inexpensive cars onto our market it might not be just GM, Ford, Chrysler, going Belly up. The Japanese car company's might not only have to scale back production, but they might have to lay-off workers and close factory's in this country. The economic affects could be devistating to this country, and many americans are ignorant enough to think the Japanese and South Korean car company's are safe, and thus won't be affected by the new competition.
The way I see it is you asked for global free trade, and now you get to taste the side effects of this so-called
flawless system.
Rocky
Nothing happens at all between 1500 and 2500rpm. And it practically idles at 1500rpm at highway speeds in overdrive if you let it.
So it tests good - plenty of power when you slam the pedal down, but 1/4 or 1/2 throttle - makes no difference - it revs so slowly (big 3.8) as to go from 30-50 in 8-10 seconds unless you pound it and downshift. Miserable throttle response at city speeds, and can't hardly pass a VW Bug in overdrive.
Also, 3800 rpm, or maximum HP - almost 85-90mph in 3rd. Way over the speed limit, and that's getting like 18-20mpg if you manually lock out overdrive. (plus the ticket) So if you are driving it legally, try about 140-160 useable HP at those lower revs.
It's just a miserably old engine, though a reliable one. The VVT 3.6 is worlds better.
Rocky
Rocky
Date posted: 04-11-2006
NEW YORK — Lucky Saturn. It finally gets to share future designs with sister division Opel, General Motors' German brand.
Among the first of the new-look Saturns to hit U.S. dealerships is the 2007 Aura, a smartly styled midsize sedan that was previewed more than a year ago at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit and goes on sale in late summer.
The Aura also will be available later in the 2007 model year in a Green Line hybrid variant, sharing a 2.4-liter four-cylinder engine and other gas-electric powertrain components with the upcoming Saturn Vue Green Line.
The standard Aura, which is built on GM's corporate Epsilon platform, will be available in base XE and uplevel XR trim. The Aura XE is powered by a 224-hp 3.5-liter V6 mated to a four-speed automatic transmission. The Aura XR comes with a 252-hp DOHC 3.6-liter V6 and a new six-speed automatic transmission with paddle shifters.
Among the other equipment: LED-lit analog gauges, embossed leather seat inserts, power-adjustable pedals, four-panel sliding panoramic roof, XM satellite radio and a choice of 17- or 18-inch wheels and tires.
On the safety side, the Aura gets four-wheel disc brakes with ABS, and side airbags and curtains for front-seat occupants only. The Aura XE adds traction control, while the Aura XR is fitted with electronic stability control.
What this means to you: European styling is perhaps the most appealing aspect of the '07 Saturn Aura, but a new gas-electric hybrid variant is also noteworthy.
What this means to GM fans: Camcord meet your new enemy :P
Rocky
Date posted: 04-11-2006
NEW YORK — Long starved for product, Saturn dealers have a plethora of new hardware in the pipeline for model-year 2007.
Perhaps the most impressive piece is the upcoming 2007 Sky Red Line, a performance version of the division's new roadster. The standard Sky arrives at dealerships this spring; the Red Line edition will follow in the fall.
Powering the Sky Red Line is a new turbocharged, direct-injection 2.0-liter four-cylinder engine, rated at 260 horsepower and 260 pound-feet of torque. The same engine is being fitted to the Sky Red Line's high-performance companion, the 2007 Pontiac Solstice GXP.
Although Saturn hasn't released full details, Pontiac says the Solstice GXP will offer a choice of five-speed manual or automatic gearboxes. In either configuration, the turbo 2.0 should provide 0-60 acceleration in less than 5.5 seconds, according to Pontiac — figures that should be virtually identical on the Sky Red Line, which shares most of its key underbody components with the Solstice GXP.
Included in the list of go-fast bits are a sport suspension with Bilstein coil-over monotube shocks, four-wheel disc brakes with ABS, 18-inch performance tires on alloy wheels, electronic stability control and a torque-sensing limited-slip differential.
Dressing up the Red Line's exterior are dual chrome exhaust tips and a unique front lower fascia with large brake-cooling vents and black headlamp bezels. The cockpit features a leather-wrapped steering wheel with audio controls, metallic sill plates, stainless steel pedal covers, plus unique gauges, including a digital boost gauge.
What this means to you: An open-top Saturn that seats two and can sprint from rest to 60 in under 5.5 seconds? That should mean something to you and to GM.
What this means to us GM fans: Mazda/Mercedes eat your heart out
Rocky
The 3800 in the base Lucerne is almost criminally negligent. Way too little power for that much weight.
Especially when it's only .1L and 28HP(12.5%) difference.(like the Aura you posted above)
Rocky
Saturn Aura/Outlook/Sky Redline
Rocky
by John D. Dingell
Rocky
I'm not so hot on the Outlook. It looks overly big and bulky. I'm going to withhold judgement on this one until I see it in person.
Remind me, which Opel Vectra has a pushrod V6 and a 4-speed slushbox? Idiots. The Green Line, DOHC V6, and Red Line are plenty.
That said, I do not plan on buying a Chinese made automobile. They are still a communist country whose intentions are suspect...as well as their blatant disreguard for basic human rights. Yeah, I know my house is full of Chinese made toys, clothing and pirated C.D's...but you have to draw the line somewhere.
The Outlook does nothing for me. But then, no mini-van or small truck does.
The Aura and Sky Redline are both very nice vehicles, in and out. I would be very interested in the Aura hybrid. Especially if GM can hold the line on price as it is with the VUE hybrid.
Haha, that's terrific, terrific stuff. A Saturn may cut into Camry fleet sales, but by nameplate alone, I can't see Toyota or Honda and their "camcord" being terribly concerned or have sales in jeapordy due to this vehicle.
It reminds me a bit of a Jetta based on exterior looks.But a "camcord" concern, I'll be kind and just say that statement made me chuckle a bit.
We obviously disagree there. I think that we are going to get slightly-better than Yugo build quality and that Americans are going to be very slow to react and buy the Chinese rigs.
You're right, though, it might push already troubled American automakers and even some Asian automakers over the financial edge if they don't correctly and promptly act on it. In this economic climate it might just be too much for some of them to survive.
I'm just not so sure that the quality of the Chinese cars will be there at first, that's all. It is something that Bricklin no doubt discusses with his investors and Chery production managers almost constantly these early car production days in China.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
That's news to me. Which Nissan engines hage sludge issues? I thought the sludge problems were with the Toyota's 3.0L v6 and Chrylsers 2.7.
While GMs reliablity overall is just fine, but their desirability is not.
I just think that he wanted to run things his own way too much to agree to a merge with Chevrolet/Oldsmobile. And it's this demand of his that he get the $50,000 in cash that leads me to think that he knew his demand would not be met and he wouldn't have to merge/share with Olds and Chevy dudes. Too much the entrepreneur was old Henry.
If they did meet it I think he would have run off and done things his own way with his own carmaker once again. I feel it real strong, I do. He would have handed off Ford duties to another Ford family member or a business associate he trusted real well.
Or, perhaps he would have taken the $50,000 and made sure that the "Ford Division" of this merger with GM would be the better cars in the new company and a possible spinoff later would be plausible for him. Oh, well, it never happened so we needn't concern ourselves with it, huh?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Big change for Saturn.
My understanding is the VUE replacement will be smaller than the current VUE as well.
I really look forward to seeing the Saturn Astra.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
And the loss of market share is just dumb luck...
The negative reputation is undeserved if you've never had the negative experiences that others here on the boards had.
However, where is the base 4-cylinder? An Aura with the 172hp from the G6 would give those who look for style, quality and fuel economy at an affordable price a reason to visit Saturn dealers.
Yeah yeah. I know many people would say the base 224hp 3.5 V6 is way better than any Japanese 4-clyinders with almost same fuel economy. But look in the details of Saturn and see the cost cutting that plagued cars like G6 and Malibu to make the V6 a reasonable fit in place of a 4-cylinder. The same marketing mistake from GM again and history repeats itself.
I think that Aura could be a winner, too. IF they don't cost-cut it before it makes it to the showroom!
Now taking note of you owning the cars less than 60K, may contribute to your luck. My tranny did not blow until 62K miles.
-Loren
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
1967 Pontiac Tempest: random stalling out
1971 Pontiac Tempest: more random stalling out
1975 Dodge Dart Swinger: even more random stalling out, so bad that they traded this one in TWO years for a...
1977 Ford Granada: needed a new tranny while still under warranty (back then I think it was 1 yr/12,000 miles)
1981 Ford Granada: more occasional stalling out
1985 Ford LTD (small, Fox-based one): occasional stalling out, overheated once or twice
1989 Ford Taurus LX: occasional stalling out
1994 Ford Taurus GL: nothing major.
What I can't figure out is how my grandparents got so many cars that had stalling problems! Now, Granddad tended to not keep up with maintenance on his cars, so maybe after missing a tuneup they just got bad? The '85 LTD and '89 Taurus were fuel injected, though, so I'd think they wouldn't have been as critical.
On my Mom's side, they didn't buy cars as often, but also seemed to have better luck. Here's what I remember, as far as problems go...
1972 Impala: engine needed a valve job around 70,000 miles, which Granddad did himself. Also started rusting after about 5 years, and by 10 years was a bucket
1981 Dodge D-50 pickup: pulled a sudden acceleration stunt at the gas station. Ended up going over an embankment and into the trees. Spooked Grandma enough that they sold it...to a neighbor! :surprise: I hoped they told them about that little stunt it pulled! It was also kinda funny because under normal conditions, its regular acceleration wasn't all that "sudden"
1982 Malibu Classic estate wagon: Fried its ECU to the tune of $600. Out of warranty. And then it did it again!
I also vaguely remember my Mom's '75 LeMans needing a distributor when it was still fairly new. Also, Dad wrecked it one night, and even after it got fixed, it never really ran right after that. After that she got a 1980 Malibu coupe that was pretty reliable until it got handed down to me, 7 years old and with about 79,000 miles on it. The rear axles went bad on it, and the a/c compressor failed, and a few other things along the way (heater core, alternator, water pump, starter, etc)
To be fair though, I think a lot of people bought foreign cars back then, because they were fed up with the Big Three, but still ended up getting burned by their Honda, Toyota, or whatever. It's just that they were so pissed with the Big Three that they were willing to deal with this newcomer.
Now I'm not saying that happened to everybody, but let's face it, no auto maker in the 70's and 80's was actually an angel, for lack of a better word.
1967 Pontiac Tempest: random stalling out
1971 Pontiac Tempest: more random stalling out
1975 Dodge Dart Swinger: even more random stalling out, so bad that they traded this one in TWO years for a...
1977 Ford Granada: needed a new tranny while still under warranty (back then I think it was 1 yr/12,000 miles)
1981 Ford Granada: more occasional stalling out
1985 Ford LTD (small, Fox-based one): occasional stalling out, overheated once or twice
1989 Ford Taurus LX: occasional stalling out
1994 Ford Taurus GL: nothing major.
What I can't figure out is how my grandparents got so many cars that had stalling problems! Now, Granddad tended to not keep up with maintenance on his cars, so maybe after missing a tuneup they just got bad? The '85 LTD and '89 Taurus were fuel injected, though, so I'd think they wouldn't have been as critical.
On my Mom's side, they didn't buy cars as often, but also seemed to have better luck. Here's what I remember, as far as problems go...
1972 Impala: engine needed a valve job around 70,000 miles, which Granddad did himself. Also started rusting after about 5 years, and by 10 years was a bucket
1981 Dodge D-50 pickup: pulled a sudden acceleration stunt at the gas station. Ended up going over an embankment and into the trees. Spooked Grandma enough that they sold it...to a neighbor! :surprise: I hoped they told them about that little stunt it pulled! It was also kinda funny because under normal conditions, its regular acceleration wasn't all that "sudden"
1982 Malibu Classic estate wagon: Fried its ECU to the tune of $600. Out of warranty. And then it did it again!
I also vaguely remember my Mom's '75 LeMans needing a distributor when it was still fairly new. Also, Dad wrecked it one night, and even after it got fixed, it never really ran right after that. After that she got a 1980 Malibu coupe that was pretty reliable until it got handed down to me, 7 years old and with about 79,000 miles on it. The rear axles went bad on it, and the a/c compressor failed, and a few other things along the way (heater core, alternator, water pump, starter, etc)
To be fair though, I think a lot of people bought foreign cars back then, because they were fed up with the Big Three, but still ended up getting burned by their Honda, Toyota, or whatever. It's just that they were so pissed with the Big Three that they were willing to deal with this newcomer.
Now I'm not saying that happened to everybody, but let's face it, no auto maker in the 70's and 80's was actually an angel, for lack of a better word.
Now I'm not saying that happened to everybody, but let's face it, no auto maker in the 70's and 80's was actually an angel, for lack of a better word.
Nope. Toyota and Honda WERE substaintially better for the same price (or cheaper for the same quality), thus resulting a 30+ years surge of Corolla/Camry/Civic/Accord sales (and a 30+ years decline for the big 3). Consumers are always right.