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Comments
Rocky
BINGO!!!!!!! We agree!!!!! Let's talk some more. I was only kidding about washing my hair - I'm bald:>)
I cannot imagine how anyone thinks Lincoln is now doing world class stuff when they are stuck with a bunch of very thinly disguised, tarted up Fords. They are not bad vehicles of course, but the lot of them would have been designated Mercurys only a few years ago.
Lincolns used to get their own bodies, even if the architecture was shared with other divisions. Lincoln today is scrambling and it shows. That they fool some people into thinking a Mercury class vehicle is actually competitive with Cadillac, etc. is great, becasue it gives them a chance to recover.
Their first solid effort to make a real new Lincoln, that is not just an elaborate re-badge, will be the MKS. And it will be very late to the party. However, Lincoln has been down before and recovered. Maybe they will again.
1.) Too much weight (hurts both acceleration and fuel economy)
2.) Nor 3rd row seat vs. its competitors. I know ford has other offerings with a 3rd row.
It does, however have many good things going for it. One more small thing i dislike, the rear seats have too much Vynil (is that how you spell it?). For a car that can hit 35K, at least have real leather.
Does the asian competition also do that with there seats?
In the end its easy to pick out the faults. These new vehicles look to be great and should help Ford get back on track, assuming they fix the structural problems within their company.
they are all camry based.
my best man's father survived the 'bataan death march'.
he was a fine carpenter. he build the house he lived in, and the furniture inside it. he drove a honda civic.
Exalteddragon: Lawsuits, IMO, are not the reason that healthcare costs like it does...sure, I have heard of defensive medicine, Doctors ordering tests to CYA...but then, if they reaaly took the time to listen and diagnose, they might be a little more accurate in the tests they order...rather than take a complete history and listen for 10 minutes, they listen for one minute and then order 50 tests and wait for some shotgun test to show an abnormal value and then they use their "brains" to read the test and come up with a working diagnosis, but it misses the real problem by a mile...but if they really listened, they might order only 5 tests to rule out what their diagnostic training SHOULD have told them...they use shotgun testing to find the problem that they refuse to take proper time to listen to the patient...
Over 85% of medmal suits are found in favor of the Doctor, so the million dollar awards you hear about make headlines because they are so rare, and when the medics screw up that badly and pass the buck onto the nurses or the orderlies, they deserve to be fried and have their incompetent names in the paper...
We had a local doctor here in town who was taking meth and selling meth out of his office...he was tried and convicted, but not before he caused numerous serious injuries to patients in the local hospital...the admin knew, but they kept him BECAUSE HE WAS A GREAT MONEY GENERATOR FOR THE HOSPITAL UNTIL HE WAS ARRESTED...but the hospital admin walked away unscathed...while they did not commit the errors, they refused to turn him in because of the $$$ and prestige he brought to the hospital...amazing how admin can sell out the patients and the town for $$$, and then folks complain that lawyers drive up the cost of healthcare...try asking the people he screwed up if he shouldn't be sued for millions, and how about the negligent entrustment and collusion from the admin staff???
Doctors get sued because doctors screw up, not because lawyers have nothing to do with their time...if docs did their job correctly there would truly be nothing for medmal lawyers to do...and every lawyer knows that just because a procedure did not cure your condition does not constitute medmal, even tho havlf the citizens seem to think so, so no lawyer gives those "cases" a second thought...but when they remove your spleen when you went in for a bypass, that is negligence and deserves to be sued, big time...
BTW, it is probably only 10% of docs that cause the problems, but, just like shifting priests around the country to hide them after molesting children, you would be amazed at how the hospitals send them off elsewhere to wreak their havoc rather then turn them in to the medical boards for license revocation...
The AMA has stated that they estimate that 10% of docs are drug or alcohol impaired...if they ADMIT to 10% it must really be 20-25%...with about 600,000 docs in the USA, at 10% that is 60,000, at 25% that is 150,000...impaired docs operating or working on patients who trust their health and life to a supposedly sober and competent professional...with a disgusting number of them neither sober nor competent, definitely not professional...
Unlike a lawyer who may screw up and not get you as much $$$ as you may deserve in an auto wreck, the doc who screws up can place you six feet underground, as they can bury their mistakes...
Layers do not raise the cost of healthcare, bad doctors who are sued by lawyers raise the cost of healthcare, along with every person over 80 years old who demands every possible procedure when their bodies do not deserve everything we have to offer...why should an 85 year old get 2 new hip transplants or a heart transplant when they are retired and sitting on the porch all day, that $$$ and those procedures should be reserved for younger folks who have a working life left...why should Medicare pay for half the things they do for people over 90, just because they want it???...would they be so adamant if they had to pay for the new hip out of their pocket???...no, but since it is "free" with Medicare, they demand it, and we need a panel of "somebodies" to say NO!!!!!
And why does Medicaid pay for Viagra for welfare recipients???...aren't these the VERY people who, if they are incapable of working or mostly lazy, do not need to be reproducing at all???...why do we want them to add more welfare recipients and more deadbeats to the taxpayers burden???...more fodder for raising the cost of healthcare simply by having more useless people who require care by living, but if no Viagra, no more of their deadbeat offspring to worry about or treat...
Sorry, it ain't the lawyers...
Apologize for the rant, but it is a fact that many Doctors do drive Ford products and a good number of them drive Lincolns to their offices, waiting to be sued by lawyers, some of which also drive Lincolns
Must stay on topic next time...
Ford basically is a one brand company, like Mitsubishi. World knows only Ford brand. Lincoln and Mercury are sold only in USA so why bother. American market is not so important for Ford after all. As an example - Peugeot and Fiat do not care about American market also. Ford is not much different from these companies building only cheap cars - there is nothing above Mondeo at least for last ten years - Mondeo is Ford's flagship in rest of the world. Japanese just are too zealous – they want to penetrate all market and all over the world. I am wondering why they are not on the Mars yet
All those Jaguars, Volvos and Mazdas have nothing to do with Ford per se. They established there reputation and heritage long before were assosiated with Ford and will deassosiate same way after Ford goes banrupt.
GM has its own developed established unique brands that sell all over the world – like Buick, Chevy, Caddy – it is truly multi-brand company with engineering prowess and never is in repeatedly desperate situations like Ford. Being big company Ford even does not have world class engines developed by its USA division!
- MKX is too similar to the EDGE, it should have been a Mercury - they are rebadged Fords (not Lincoln)
- Early reviews are NOT glowing for the MKX, especially when most of the media groups the Edge & MKX together in their review, ref. USA Today for example.
- Low expectations by Ford with only 30,000 sales forecast vs nearly 100,000 every year for the RX
- MKX will fall further behind the competition as the next generation (3rd) RX comes out in a year or so... this will really make the MKX look dated. Plus, Ford will continue its evil ways and not upgrade the MKX for 8-10 years, so much for investing in your product!
- No 3rd row seat - just stupid and totally out of touch with the market.
So you prefer the 1949 Kettering valve in head engine of GM to the 1991 OHC engine of Ford? Not me, I've had both.
The RX doesn't have a 3rd row seat, either. Is it stupid and out of touch, too?
A 3rd row in this size is almost unusable anyway, and Ford already has the Explorer and Freestyle available with a 3rd row and the Fairlane will make 3. They don't need another 3rd row SUV/CUV.
I can't disagree with your post. I'm just glad they are making baby-steps in progress. It seemed a few years ago Lincoln, was going to die a ugly death. The only thing that has died at Ford is my Detroit Lions.
Rocky
The RX doesn't have a 3rd row seat, either. Is it stupid and out of touch, too?
The FX and Murano also don't have 3rd rows. Lots of people don't use 'em, don't need'em, don't like 'em. I know people who purposely delete them on Mountaineers and Explorers....
My, we're awfully critical of the MKX - and for some odd reasons.... :sick:
Rocky
-Loren
-Loren
I would put it more that Cadillac has won this round, for sure, but the game isn't over yet. If it were, we could have said the reverse in about 1990, when Lincoln was outselling Cadillac, because their line was new, and the Town Car was great, and their other cars were unique and interesting, and Cadillac was pushing around Broghams with 350CID Chevy engines and carburators! The DeVille and everything car they had were boring, and poorly made.
We could have said the same thing in 98 when Lincoln debuted the Navigator, GM was chuckling in the glass tower until the sale reports came in, and then they hastily gussied up a Denali and put a wreath & Crest on it and called it an Escalade, and voila, the damn thing actually sold! I would have said match over then for Cadillac, and Lincoln won again.
Now, the shoe is definitely on the other foot, and while Cadillac has reinvented itself, Lincoln has been purposefully neglected, downright castrated to a miserable parody of the dignified name it carries, and Bill Ford should be ashamed of himself. It's his fault. He's never given a rip about Lincoln, and still doesn't. I don't know if it will ever recover or not, but if it does, it will be Mulally who does it, not the Ford family. If Edsel ever sobered up and came out of the ether, he'd be livid at what Bill has done to his grandfather's car.
"Come-out edmunds ford employee moles, I want to see pics ASAP of the production version of the car I've been defending for a while the beloved Lincoln MKS"
You can secretly shoot them to my e-mail so I can drool
Rocky
I don't think Lincoln, has heard the fat lady sing quite yet Loren.
Rocky
Rocky
I am also amazed by resale values of a Cadillac or Lincoln being lower than those of a Camry or Accord. Great value - no doubt! So easy to find low mileage Devilles, and other Cadillacs on the cheap. I am thinking of buying a sports car as a second car, but I am always tempted by ads I see for Cadillacs. The CTS holds value a bit more than the rest, but some deals are out there on those too. As for Lincolns, a Mark VIII is pretty cool looking, but I hear it may be costly to replace the suspension system. Anyone have thoughts of Lincoln Marks as used cars? Good thing I have limited parking space, I may end up with two more cars. And thinking about a Mustang too. No not the current replicar. -Loren
I had a MarkVIII. It was my first Lincoln. I bought an '93 used in like '97 I think. Got a good deal. Took it from about 45000 to 120000. Had to replace the front air shocks once. Yeah, they're expensive but I did em myself for I think $300 or 400 for the pair. It was a pain but straightforward. It's quite a surprise if one of em goes suddenly - oops, drops down like that, 'SNAP'. Can keep going but it makes me wonder how many blue hairs have heart attacks when a Lincoln air shock gives out hard?
Only other thing I had done was I twisted their arms to replace the tranny at about 75K under my extended warranty. My complaint was that it sorta slipped into gear sometimes. They blamed it on the lock-up torque converter. Whatever. Anyway it was not a whole lot better with the new tranny.
Other than that though it was a seriously nice ride. Could get easy 26 on the highway with loads of power. The later years had 20 more hp I think and the LSCs even more than that. And this car may look like a sled, but it really handles. I often think about picking up a '98 if I could find a nice one.
Do any of you agree with that ?
Rocky
Rocky
-Loren
This after yesterday I received in the mail a HUGE marketing book from Lincoln, urging me to reach higher. The first 4 or 5 pages of this big book (about 8 x 12 inches and about 20 pages deep) were pictures of sails and beaches and other stuff. Then finally a page with 3 black vehicles: an X, a Z and a chrome-laden Navigator. Then pages w/ a picture of each and a paragraph saying not much about the car. Then in the back, a page on the Mark LT. ANd that's it. Do they still make the Town Car? Or is that not a 'reach higher' car?
I've decided 2 things - Ford is in BIG BIG trouble from which they may not 'Escape' (saw the new escape pix and that looks like another flop to me) and Lincoln aint selling cars, they're selling pipe dreams. Some car companies, notably the Germans and Lexus, want to tell you about their CARS. What makes them tick. Why they're the best, etc. Lincoln apparently cant compete that way so they sell dreams - sailboats and running on the beach take more room in their ads than vehicles.
I've pretty much learned my lesson. Lincoln and Mercury are history as far as I'm concerned. Their vehicles cant compete. They've nothing in the pipeline that has any real interest. Their new vehicles, notably the MKX, are overpriced non-starters from the get-go and will be relegated to nothing more than curiosity status when some competitors hit the streets, notably the Buick Enclave.
My wife, who loves our 2004 Navigator as do I, saw in the brochure the dashboard of the new Navigator for the first time and practically screamed - "what the hell did they do to the instrument panel? It looks stupid. It looks like something out of the 70's" ANd it is and does. There's pretty much a concensus on that.
And the service dept at my local Ford/Lincoln/Mercury dealer, where I've spent about $100,000 over the past 6 years on vehicles, has treated me like crap for the last time. I paid over $400 for preventive maintenance and asked them to do 2 SIMPLE things, one of which was called out by a tsb. They did NEITHER, though they offered to do the tsb for $137.80. THis was to fix peeling paint on the dashboard on my now sold Sport Trac, a factory defect. The things these morons have done over the years include putting 5 quarts of oil in my LS for oil changes instead of the almost 7 it takes, crashing a hand truck or something along the side of my LS, doing about $1000.00 worth of damage to the car and then saying 'it was like that when u brought it in'. Thank GOD I had the SA do a walk-around and note that the car was CHERRY when I brought it in. This was documented on my service papers and they STILL tried to screw me. WHen I took delivery of my Navigator, the inside driver's door handle was plainly angled out too far, not flat. The slightest touch would open the door. Instead of trying to fix the problem, they got out a micrometer and said - it's within spec. Unbelievable. I just spent $55 grand and they're nickle/diming me on this. I took it to another dealer near where I worked and they took the panel apart and found a screw was installed wrong at the factory and the handle was hitting the screw and not closing correctly. So this Wed, I finally had enough. I called my sales gal and the owner of the F/L/M and told them not to expect any more of my business. That's IT for me. BTW, if u live in the Bay Area of California, do NOT bring your car to North Bay Ford in Santa Cruz for service. IMHO, better to have a few monkees have a go at it.
It's getting harder to buy a L/M around here anyway since another L/M dealer went belly-up. A Ford dealer went belly-up about a year ago. The writing's on the wall. And I've decided it couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch of people.
That's pretty much where I am too - Acura is near luxury, hindered mostly by the lack of 8 cylinders, but LIncoln has now dropped to that level of near luxury with their current offerings. Just not that nice anymore, or else, are short a couple of cylinders anymore.
Lincolns will continue to sell, just not in the numbers they did a few years ago. I do hope the powers that be have bigger plans for the marque down the road. The conservative styling of the MKS isn't going to save the brand, but may keep it limping along until something more respectable can be produced.
Meanwhile, if Lincoln aspires to be the American Acura, things could be worse. Acuras are great cars, just not ones that people ooh and ah over or spend much mental thought aspiring to.
I agree - however, the brand has to have an aspiration, doesn't it? No need to reach for the Buick, is there? I see your point though, no self-respecting Acura fan is going to shop Lincoln....not going to happen.
-Loren