By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
You may be thinking of the CTS' predecessor, the Catera, which was based on an Opel. The CTS uses Cadillac's exclusive Sigma platform.
Are any other than the Aura based on an Opel?
So far, the Aura seems like the best valued of the new GM cars.
-Loren
The Aura has been styled to LOOK like a Vectra, which isn't a bad thing, and has been tuned to offer a more "European" combination of ride and handling, but it is not a rebadged Vectra. There are still considerable differences between the two vehicles.
However, it will take years to get to the point where all Saturns are Opels. But I think it is a good plan. Opels otherwise are not sold here, they are well-engineered vehicles, and seem superior to the American-designed Saturns. Why should GM continue to spend the bucks on separately designed Saturns, when they do not turn out as well as Opels do?
No one cares, but I think that Ford should build European Fords here, rebadged as Mercurys--and not do the half-baked effort that Merkur was. I am thinking instead of the success the 1970s Capri had all by itself, and what could be done with a bevy of European choices that are better styled and clearly different from Fords here, and worth the extra money.
Then Lincoln wouldn't have to be going so down market to cover ground that Mercury used to be able to handle. Just beating a dead horse. Sorry.
can't warm up to the cts styling. i know it is supposed to be a good handling car, but i wouldn't be buying a mid size near lux car for that reason.
Back to Lincoln. It seems the more conservative LS did not sell well against the wild looking CTS. The last of the stylish and great handling Lincolns was the Mark VIII, which has meet its demise. There are no cars left to contend. Cadillac, besides the CTS, has all the other bases covered. I for one, would prefer the DTS over the even larger Town Car. At a certain width, a car in our little city streets is too wide to drive with ease. Very narrow streets around here. The DTS, and the older SLS cars are not small by any means, but they still have a size advantage, and they out-handle what Lincoln provides in a full sized, real luxury car. The MKZ is a good mid-sized car, but I would not class it a true luxury. Well maybe a Ford Luxury car, but is that not a Mercury? Still say, drop the MKZ and Fusion and just make the Mercury Milan. Sell the upscale Mercury line for cars, and Ford as a truck line only.
-Loren
The Town Car is not a real luxury car anymore. It is too close to the Crown Vic/Grand M in execution (unlike the 1990-1997 TC which had its own completely separate body), it is not particularly quiet inside or luxurious (especially considering that you can buy a Kia that is quieter), it is very down on power compared to the competition, and it is going on its 10th year with essentially the same styling and interior.
Yes, they should keep marketing it, because it still sells, but let's not pretend that it can compete anywhere except in its own very small and continually shrinking niche of rear drive, solid rear axle cars with huge front and rear overhangs (that serve no purpose except to remind some of us that these are old, old designs).
my opinion is that coupes/2 door hatches are on the way back.
I care, and that's not a bad idea at all. Of course, it would take billions, that they don't yet have, but I like it. They tried that once before with the two Merkur models, unfortunately, they started rusting in the showroom, and though pretty good handlers, did not last.
10 of 33 plants are now used as collateral on the $23Bn loan that Ford Motor has secured to finance its future programs, and employee buy-outs. Even Ford's International Operations Director, Mark Schulz---friend of Bill---is taking a buyout package after working for Ford Motor for 36 years. (Unlike Mr. Fields, He started on the factory floor---rising through the ranks the old fashioned way!) So this is a huge roll of the dice for Ford---using its assets for the first time ever to gain loans.
Mr. Mulally aims for a "sleek" organisation. If Ford can reorganise itself so that its average labour time per car is 18-35 hours, the higher range on luxury models, its plants utilise roughly 2,500-3,500 workers building one to four platforms, and make an average of $500-800 per vehicle sold regardless of the mix, Ford Motor will survive to fight another day. Given the vast numbers of automotive plants built, closed, and rebuilt again in the country in the last 100 years, the chance remains that Ford can remodel its facilities, building a new Lincoln plant---for the next generation of cars---and set a new pace for this century.
Cadillac has once again tromped Lincoln: selling 9,888 cars for November and 130,229 cars for the year---a volume that Lincoln used to sell only so many years ago. GM's Wagoner has stated that he expects 40% of their volume to come in the next year from the 20 new cars they are introducing---GM's revamping of its product line coming on stream now. So Ford and Lincoln must follow Cadillac and GM once again.
Will Lincoln ever make it back into the top tier? Will Mr. Mulally's Ford Motor push Lincoln back into the ranks it once occuppied? Especially considering that they are searching for a way out of Jaguar which sold a paltry 1,256 cars nationwide in November---and 19,138 for the year! You can bet at those numbers, Jaguar is losing four figure numbers for each car sold...and its a shame considering how good the XJ and XK really are. Once Jaguar is spun-off after the launch of its S Type, perhaps Lincoln might well see the top of Ford's cake once again. Mr. Nasser is waiting.
DouglasR
(Sources: Automotive News, WSJ, FT, Reuters, Edmunds Inside Line)
We all know that Ford, even divested of Jaguar, does not seem to be able to move fast in getting great products to showrooms. The Edge/MKX really neede to be a winner, but it is more like an acceptable, also ran effort. The 500/Montego?Freestyle tanked, and even the very good Fusion triplets are unable to make the volume to truly compete with the Japanese. And with betting the farm this time, for the first time in its history, no more mistakes are allowed. Will that paralyze their creativity, or will they pull out the stops? Stay tuned.
I still fear for Lincoln with the MKS. Such a conservatively styled effort is not what Lincoln needs now. It would have been better if they could have introduced the MKS with a rear drive alternative additional model. Oh well.
I've ridden Ford stock all the way down, and each day, it seems to get worse. My consolation is that the meddling, know-nothing Ford family members have been losing far more.
Never marry a stock. :sick:
Have you driven a Town Car lately, Loren? I'm not a Town Car fan, BTW, which is why I drive a Lexus for work, but I rent them, and the DTS, and while I prefer the DTS also, it's not because of handling. The Town Car handles like a much smaller RWD car would, nimble, peppy, and straight. Not wallowy like they all used to be. The DTS with the FWD, handles pretty swashbucklingly actually. It is, however, a fine car, and much more luxurious. The Town Car is unfortunately that now, and isn't even offered in the LIncoln brochures any longer...... I'm just saying, it handles and runs very well.
gregg: I know you are probably loathe to take advice from Alan Greasepan (me), but how can you lose with Ford stock now? It won't go to zero - it can pretty much only go up. I wouldn't bail out now.... Agree with you on the Ford family, although you should love Bill, being the greenie, and Globe supporting guy that he is, notwithstanding that he's a fiscal moron....
I also agree on the MKS - as good looking as it is to me, it's certainly not revolutionary, and they NEED a revolutionary car for Lincoln right now. As Ford did in 49, and again in 86, they can change the automotive world with a leap of faith - and they need one now in Lincoln, or turn the lights out. I also think if they restyled the XJ8, and left the under works the same, they could save Jaguar.
I am not too keen on Cadillac seats. So far the CTS sort of fits me -- those with lumbar support are prefered. The DeVille and SLS I sat in without the lumbar support were pretty bad. Not so-so, but bad on my back. The DeVille with the lumbar support seats were OK.
The Town Car is too antiquated. It is exactly the kind of car I would've went nuts over ten years ago. Today, it's kind of disheartening when I see them in taxi livery in downtown Philly. Funny thing is it is about the only Lincoln car I would seriously consider and the dummies are dumping it.
The CTS has lumbar support as an option. Those without the lumbar support are not terrible, but far from the best seats. I would think manufacturers would consider seats as near top of the list of car components which the buyer will judge. Oh, I almost forgot, GM and Ford are having a near death experience. Must be a lot of strange moves, bold or not.
My PT Cruiser has excellent supporting front seats. The back seats, we need not talk about -- not so hot.
As for Lincoln, those Mark VIII sure looked cool. No, never driven one. The LS car must have been too conservative in styling, and not advertised correctly. GM did a better job all the way around with Cadillac and the CTS. The ads were hip, the development of the car well done, and the look was fresh. While Cadillac had Led Zep. ads, blaring out that it's been too long since I rock and rolled, the Lincoln ad shows a guy in a speed boat looking at an LS on a bridge saying he wished he owned one of those. Then some other ads which for better or worse, never really got people excited about the car. The follow up over the years was nothing. It became an orphan. Now do you suppose the MKZ is a temporary fix, as in you will not be seeing one around in the next decade? Another dump of a name and cliental? What becomes of the loyal Continental, Mark, LS and now MKZ owners as lines are retired? And shame on Cadillac for dumping the DeVille and Eldorado nameplates.
-Loren
Hee Hee. Funny you should ask ... I owned a 93 Mark VIII - great car. ANd now have an 01 LS with the 5 speed manual and an '04 Navigator. Loyal enough?
There is nothing Lincoln is now offering that interests me in the least. My needs have changed a little and I am thinking about making some changes. Right now the best swap out idea to me looks to be Navigator swap for a Subaru Outback and LS swap for a Civic w/manual tranny. Just ideas at the present. The message though is that this life long Ford guy is pretty well decided to be a long-gone ex Ford guy. And not because the cars have been troublesome - they've been great. It's because Ford just isn't offering anything that is at the top of the game.
Swap a Navigator for an Outback -- yeah, sounds good to me. Subaru AWD would be nice. I don't live in snow country however. I must say the smaller size would be so much easier to navigate around in.
If I am thinking Ford product, the Milan in FWD and previous Mustang come to mind. I still have a '99 or '04 Stang on my possible buy list.
The '99 was the first of that style and as ya know, the '04 a last of the old Fox body cars for all time. I realize the advances of the New Stang, but I don't like everything about the new one. The old one may be looser, but it was simpler, and less costly to keep, if thinking long term relationship. I am thinking as a second car for play, a less than state-of-the-art, beast with good handling and simply great sounding engine may be the ticket. I don't need throttle-by-wire, nor the strange problems of gas not filling, or wierd noises from the drivetrain / suspension. Don't need cinch up windows. And I really don't need retro interior which I don't care for, or even the good looking, but replica car exterior. No, I kinda like the raw, and even less perfection of the old stang. It was an evolution of first Mustang, and not an attempt to capture those that missed owning the '69 or so model Mustang. Now, some of the new concept Stangs do look pretty hot! They have some cool and sexy lines, and are not as sleepy looking. I am fifty something, and I suppose the New Stang was partly my targeted market. Well to that they did a great job, as most everyone went bonkers over the replicar look. Guess I am the oddball, as I am thinking yeah, not bad, but I saw the real deal ones. I owned a '65 and wished I owned a '68 or maybe the '69. As size went up, I dropped out of Mustang wishing. Today, I see size creeping up again. I also owned an '85 Stang. It is a good size. Anyway, the New Stang is good, but a bit stubbier, and less jazzy, no chrome, no scoops, version of the original. I prefer looking forward with car designs, though hints of days-gone-bye are welcomed.
-Loren
And what is that agenda, Karnac?
The CTS has lumbar support as an option. Those without the lumbar support are not terrible, but far from the best seats. I would think manufacturers would consider seats as near top of the list of car components which the buyer will judge. Oh, I almost forgot, GM and Ford are having a near death experience.
It didn't matter, Loren - one of the things that drove me to Lincoln from Cadillac in the early 90s, was that my 90 Fleetwood had far less stuff on it than my buddy's Buick Ultra! No memory seat, his had a 24 way memory seat with a huge panel to manage it in the armrest! It just burned me to no end that my "top of the line" Caddy felt like a rental to me. GM has been famous for that, and though they have masterfully resurrected the Cadillac brand, I see they still cheap out whenever possible. And Lincoln does the same with their Town Car. NO Lincoln or Cadillac should ever be made without a fantastic seat, with all the power options possible. The only options available on a Lincoln or Cadillac should be things like Moonroofs,
Gold packages, Navigation (not sure that shouldn't be standard either, personally) Chrome wheels, etc. All the things that make a Lincoln or Cadillac a luxury car should be standard. Period. Let me run that company for 5 years and I'll show you what a American Luxury should be...
The Mark VIII was a fantastic coupe, though it was not well received generally. Mark VII enthusiasts were disappointed and didn't think Lincoln did a good job with the car, but man it performed! It had a spaceship interior, very ergo friendly, and it would downshift from 4th to 1st in one shift when you put the throttle to the floor! Took a couple of seconds, but it would shoot you out of the cannon when it took hold. It was not the most reliable Lincoln ever made, because it had so much stuff on it, but I liked 'em. It died mostly because large expensive coupes became a tough sell in the late 90's. Same with Eldorado.
Those of us who loved the Marks, were disappointed in the LS. Performance was better than ever, it was the best performing and handling Ford ever made - and that was Nasser's goal, to make Lincoln American BMW. He came very close to the 5er with the LS. But they forgot to style it. They forgot that while no self-respecting BMW owner was going to trade for a Lincoln anyway, and Americans who didn't already buy BMWs, while loving how BMW's handled, didn't like how they looked! So making the LS as German looking, with a Lincoln waterfall grille, didn't work. And they never fixed it. Changing the taillights didn't help, if anything, it was unnoticeable. Then, they just kept decontenting it to try and bring the cost down.
And YES, Loren, SHAME on Cadillac for dumping their heritage names as well....
Ditto, prettymuch. I've owned lots of other brands, but Fords have been my overall favorite, as you say, because they were great cars, generally. (I had an Aerostar, you know). I just bought an 06 Explorer Limited, and think it's the best Explorer yet, of the 6 I've owned. I would have bought an Aviator - but oh yeah, THEY KILLED THEM! What does Lincoln have in this niche now? Nada. I shopped every brand out there in this niche, and Ford still has the best design, IMO. So, I'm not gone completely yet, but I'm driving a Lexus now instead of a Town Car.... It'll be hard to go back. This is the first time in 15 years my Garage has not had a Lincoln in it. I'm a businessman, and I understand the cost/benefit equation pretty well. But how they could let the brand get into this condition, is unfathomable. It's like a slow train wreck, it's very predictable, if only a car guy, and Lincoln enthusiast were in charge, instead of Mr. Greenjeans, aka Bill Ford Jr.
I was partly thinking out loud yesterday. I definitely will not enjoy getting rid of either of my Lincolns. Especially the rare and almost-wonderful LS 5 speed. But I did say my needs have changed a bit. Factors like - we're a family of 4 now that the oldest has gone to college so the Navigator is bigger than we *need*. Factors like gas prices really s_ck and lets face it, the Navigator sucks gas. (hey, how come I could spell out the word in one usage and had to disguise it in another? Or did I? Kinda like your can prick your finger, but ... but I digress) And the fact that neither my wife nor I is working contributes to the folly of owning big expensive cars. So in both case, my goal is to come as close to doubling mpg as possible without spending much additional money and giving up as little as possible.
A Civic SI with manual tranny could be a fun car to drive as well as getting, let's see lemme look it up, ...23/32 mpg, not double but significantly better than the 18/24 of the LS. (leave off tghe SI and mileage is superb.) I agree, it's no LS or CTS but requirements dictate ... I admit, I haven't driven the Civic, but I like the looks and the lure of Honda reliability is a big one. Milan? Not a chance. No Mercury Mazda for me. If I wnat that platform, I'd get the Mazda 6. THere are many more intersting ways you can get that car. The Milan is a boring-mobile in my book.
An Outback with the turbo and auto gets 20/26 which is 50% better than the Nav and the thing is stupid-fast and handles well. I would miss the Navigator's 4X4 system but the Subaru AWD will get me to 98% of the places the Nav could go and I gotta compromise somewhere. I'd prefer a real 4x4 but there isn't one that gets decent mpg and can get out of it's own way. I had (have - with a blown engine at 250,000 miles) an '86 Cherokee with 4cyl/5speed that could get 23-25 on the highway. I can't even get somethijng like that anymore. And not sure I would want to - I'm a bit spoiled now and having to go down to 3rd gear or less sometimes in the underpowered Jeep to get up a big hill is not the way I want to drive anymore. I spoke to the dealer about ordering a Liberty with the 4cly/5speed but its like unobtanium now. Back in 86 the lots were crammed with 4cyl Jeeps. ANd there's no way I'll trade the Nav into something like a V6 Liberty or 4Runner that wont get much better mileage than the big beautiful Navigator (07s excepted)
Never been much of a Mustang fan, though the dealer had 4 of em in the showroom last week and the convertible for about 27K was intersting. But I can't show my face at that dealer anymore, nor would I want to get another car they'd be "servicing" so that's out. If they made a Cougar based on this Mustang like they did in '67, I'd probably be in line. But there's no chance of that it appears.
But I no longer could justify 2 SUVs, so I got a Sedan. I would have loved to have bought a Town Car - but they are ruined as well, a long time ago, frankly, but getting worse every year it seems. Not even on the brochure anymore, but that could be because at the printing time, the Town Car was discontinued for 07, now Mulally has revived it, good decision since it makes over half the profit for Lincoln.
Personally, I can't do Subaru, but maybe you can. So, I won't offer a suggestion there. But on the LS - I have owned a Civic, for 180,000 miles I owned a Civic and it was great in every way it was supposed to be. But it was a Civic, and they are no fun. NOt in any iteration, even the Del Sol. You're gonna MISS that LS, every damn time you get in the Civic, and you're gonna beat yourself up for ever letting it go. NOt for that. Get the Mazda 6, or the Mazda 3, or a Miata, or something fun, an RX-8 maybe, oh, nevermind, their mileage isn't good either. How about you get the Mazda CX-5 for your SUV, and keep your LS? If the LS isn't giving you trouble, you can buy a lot of gas for the $20,000 you'll pay for the boring Civic. You're my friend - friends don't let friends trade Lincolns for Hondas....
-Loren
When you're out of town, it talks you to where you want to go. Much safer than reading a map while driving, or even stopping to try to read and memorize one. About the only thing as good, is the MRs. in the next seat telling you where to go, and hoping she's right.
But, even when you're in your home city, that you have grown up in and been in for 53 years - there are times when I'm in a new area that I'm unfamiliar with, and can't figure out how to get home. Press one button and say, "go home" to her, and she gets me right out of that mess, the easiest and fastest way to my house.
No doubt, you CAN get along without it quite well, but I'm a convert. I won't WANT to have to get along without it ever again.....
YMMV
He did shepherd a new plane to market - the Dreamliner, if I recall correctly - that is proving to be very popular with private carriers. Boeing bet that airlines wanted smaller, more efficient planes.
Airbus, meanwhile, bet on the huge A380, which is looking more and more like a flying Edsel, or at least the answer to the question nobody asked. Plus, the company has experienced delays in getting the plane to market.
Instead of saying that Mr. Mullaly's success at Boeing is entirely because of government defense spending, it might be better to say that it gave him a cushion as he turned the company around. The federal government is not going to let Boeing go out of business.
He brings an engineer's perspective to Ford, which it sorely needs, as top management has been too dominated by bean counters and finance types more concerned about cutting costs and keeping Wall Street happy than making great vehicles.
If early reports are correct, he is demanding accountability from top executives, which is apparently a new concept at Ford (which should show just how much badly this company has been run).
Will he succeed? That is a good question. He certainly has his work cut out for him. The product larder is rather empty, GM appears to be getting back on track, Honda and Toyota are as relentless as ever, the economy is uncertain and next year's UAW negotiations pose a real challenge.
But I wouldn't write him off just yet, just as I wouldn't anoit him as Dearborn's savior at this time...
You're right, Toyota and Honda are the juggernauts now. And GM really DOES appear to be FINALLY getting it's act together, although seeing the Pontiac Solstice low down on JD's initial quality leaves me wondering and brings the name 'Fiero' to mind. Still the new product they have in line looks promising while Ford, well, they really need to go back to the drawing board.
This is exactly what Ford needs - the only problem is it will take years to fully realize the benefits.
If Lincoln makes something with the clean, beautifully proportioned elegance of the 1961 Continental, or the good-natured flashiness of the 1968-71 Continental Mark III - yes.
If Lincoln keeps passing off Fords with different grilles and taillights and nicer interiors as Lincolns - no.
I would sure consider another Lincoln if they built even one that resembled the 90 Continental I had, while not a great car, it had rooooooooooom in that thing, while being quite economical to run. Or, the 97 Town Car, which IMO, was the high water mark for Lincoln. Or this:
Sorry, the ad was running through my head as I was reading the politcal stuff here about who is or is not running things.
As the dollar bill reads, NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM, which means, "a new order has begun." A new world order. :surprise:
Now back to autos. Something as practiced as design and building of a fine car by Lincoln you would think should be easy. Constantly amazed at how many things still go wrong. Maybe we need to big back the cavemen.
Love it or not, the Cadillac CTS truly bold move made the day. It is NOT a BMW, though it handles well. It looks like no other car, which was a high risk, but gave the consumer something unique to buy. And best of all, it was a Cadillac, though I wish it had a name instead of letters. But it is not a clone of a Bimmer. And it makes NO difference if the BMW does beat it in every auto magazine. The car was presented by Cadillac correctly, and it sold well. They beat Lincoln all the way around. They did NOT have to beat BMW at their own game -- they created a new game. Brillant! Too bad the rest of GM is not as aggressive. Yes, I know the Solstice and Sky, but I see those as not so beneficial. I would have made the Solstice Coupe first and it would have been a Chevy branded car, with a V6. It could have kicked a bit of Mustang butt. This low volume run of yet another drop top car, with no trunk and no roll bar was not right.
-Loren
Boy, you're right on there....I saw a white one while out at lunch today, and could only think, "my, that is one ugly car!" The only way I sleep at night is believing that that Zephyr was a stop-gap car, all they could afford to build, and LIncoln needed SOMETHING, so it was born. IF I wanted a small sedan, like a Mazda 6, I might buy it. I consider it a more comfortable Mazda 6. Not as good looking, BTW. Plus, what does it say about its owner???
MAZDA 6 = young, aggressive, successful, discerning.
FUSION = single, female, limited means, uninformed.
MILAN = married female, thought it was cute.
ZEPHYR = man, I WISH they made Lincolns like they used to. This will be my last Lincoln for sure.
You gotta hand it to Ford though, they have hit the record for badge-engineering with 4 cars on one platform, held by GM with what is it, 4 minivans and 4 SUVs on one platform? What an accomplishment!~ :sick:
I think I'm closer to the Lincoln demographic than fintail (probably 20 years out). At least in the rational heartland of the country when I tell people my age I drive a Lincoln LS they usually say "oh, that's a nice car."
Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think the MKZ looks pretty good in dark colors, better than the Mazda6. Now, I'm not defending the car as a Lincoln. It's a nice enough car, perhaps, as a competitor to a Buick or a Honda, but it's not a worthy representation of the Lincoln heritage, and its got to be a stop-gap only.
Hopefully it'll help Lincoln make enough $$ to get back on track financially, and by then FoMoCo will have hired the advertisers necessary to restore Lincoln's reputation.
I like Milan over MKZ and I’m not a married female, not yet.
http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/dec2006/bw20061212_753286.htm?chan=aut- os_autos+index+page
At next month's North American International Auto Show, BusinessWeek.com has learned that Ford Motor (F) will show a rear-drive Lincoln concept car. It will be based on the same rear-drive chassis and engineering architecture it is planning for a future design of Ford Australia's popular Falcon model.