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Dodge Dakota - IV

1235716

Comments

  • andy_jordanandy_jordan Posts: 765
    Dodge and bad trannys has been a recurring theme over the last few years. Whilst a lot of the problems have been overrated there have undoubtedly been some serious problems.

    The tranny for the 4.7 is a new evolution of an existing tranny that debuted in the Grand Cherokee for 99. Theoretically it should be more reliable than the tranny that's mated to the 5.9 because its newer. In practice I dunno.

    I do know that DC has put together an extremely high level task force to address the issue. They have been tasked to produce a new generation of transmissions, the first of which is to be used in the restyled Ram (2002). Their only instruction was that they had to start with a blank piece of paper (or is that computer terminal) - they were not allowed to use an existing transmission as a starting point.

    As far as my comment on the manual - well I actually meant both. Running at high or low revs puts additional strain on a number of components within a vehicle - engine and transmission are the obvious ones. The ability of the vehicle to pull at virtually any speed in any gear combined with 'bad' manual drivers (none of us here, obviously) will, over time, cause excess wear on the transmission, then engine and many other parts (I won't get into all of the technical issues, but we can get into stresses on the block, mounts and a multitude of other things).

    I know how easy it is to red line this truck, and I know how well the vehicle pulls if you hit 5th when aiming for 3rd.

    3.92 vs 3.55 - well I guess that I would say that the 3.55 is the 'safer' choice because of less intense acceleration (though that's relative), however by the same token the 3.92 would be more forgiving if you tend to drive in too high a gear as it generally revs higher for the same speed.

    Practically, if you drive sensibly, it doesn't matter. The old rule always used to be (for prolonged running) to keep the engine revving above 2000, and 1500 to 2000 below redline. I think that is a little outdated, but I would still be wary of running the engine at revs below around 1700 - 1800.
  • towcrazy2towcrazy2 Posts: 337
    Andy,
    Have to commend you on your comments regarding the 4.7L engine/transmission combo! So often we think simply of "hp & torque" without regard to how power is being transmitted!

    Yes... DC has much to learn in the area of powertrain design. I opted for the 5.9 (in great anguish over fuel consumption) specifically because I distrusted the new transmission mated to the 4.7. Perhaps I was wrong, but I'm hoping the the transmission that served me so well in the '95 Ram will do the same in the 2000 QC.

    Your comments regarding a "clean slate" approach to transmission selection in the 2002 Ram were encouraging. About 5 months ago, I was involved in some training development on the 2001 Chevy Silverado, and they took that same approach. They had on their hands a diesel engine that produces an honest 300 hp... Looking for a suitable transmission, they selected an Allison unit capable of about 20% more torque than the engine could produce.

    The jury's still out, since the truck won't hit the market until June. Yet, the philosophy of carefully selecting transmission components to match engine output is encouraging!

    Aren't trucks fun!!??
  • spike50spike50 Posts: 481
    I'm hoping you and Tim get your's soon. I'm starting to get a little upset when I have to drive one of the other "family" cars. The Quad is different and fun. The 5 speed isn't a problem.

    That was certaining a surprise to both Ernie and I when we identified ourselves in that first phone call. After giving him some background on this "branch" of the family, I am surprised that Ernie didn't send me into the D/C black-hole. But things did work out.
  • spike50spike50 Posts: 481
    I'm hoping you and Tim get your's soon. I'm starting to get a little upset when I have to drive one of the other "family" cars. The Quad is different and fun. The 5 speed isn't a problem.

    That was certaining a surprise to both Ernie and I when we identified ourselves in that first phone call. After giving him some background on this "branch" of the family, I am surprised that Ernie didn't send me into the D/C black-hole. But things did work out.
  • lmeyer1lmeyer1 Posts: 215
    Thanks for the useful insights. Appreciate it.
  • haddonhaddon Posts: 26
    I haven't posted in a while but still read everyones posts. Well called cs today and truck should be at the dealers in a few days. I ordered on 11/22/99. What a wait I hope it will be worth it. (red,4.7-auto-4x4-loaded). I am worried about the auto tranny, I guess I should consider the ext.warranty. This is really a great site. If all goes well I will post again after taking delivery.
  • ozarkozark Posts: 124
    andy jordan, I also appreciate your comments on the dodge transmission problems and solutions. I particularly like your notion of sensible driving and its positive effect on the running gear.

    For those considering warranty protection let me recommend this site once again
    www.chryslerwarranty.com
    Even if you don't buy from these folks it is well worthwhile to check out the various options that are available based on your miles per year. Usually when the finance guy at the dealer tries to sell you extended coverage he is not anxious to tell you all the options. For example a 7 year 100,000 warranty is not worth more to me than a 3 year 100,000 warranty because I will probably have that many miles in the shorter period. This site lets you tailor your anticipated mileage per year and level of coverage you want and then provides you with a genuine MOPAR warranty. Since a lot of us may feel more comfortable with the dealer doing the work, this seems like a good approach.
  • hillflahillfla Posts: 90
    thanks for the advice on the tires. i am out of town this week and next but once i get home i plan on going to the goodyear dealer. i'll send an update as to what happens.
  • crazycanuckcrazycanuck Posts: 43
    Sorry if I am changing topic......No, not DRL's.

    My question(s) is this:

    How good are the stock Dakota "fog lamps"?

    Are they for fog conditions or more for Low visibility driving conditions?

    I am considering a grill guard and adding lights
    to it, should I consider yellow lamps rather than the stock dodge one's?

    I am most interested in lighting up more roadway in normal conditions because of the rural nature of the area that I drive in. The high beams of the quad and low as well, are only satisfactory.

    If the stock Dakota fog lamps will do for driving lights....I will put fog lamps on the grill guard.

    Anyway...now that I have confused you all....

    Fire those opinions at me!!!!!!!!

    Thanks.

    R.
  • andy_jordanandy_jordan Posts: 765
    The fog lights are adequate, but I wouldn't say they were any better than that.

    The problem with fog lights in trucks is their position relative to the driver and so they always end up being most effective at short range. Grille guard mounted lights on the other hand automatically have a better range because of their higher mounting position - not always that useful in fog because of the bounce back effect.

    My personal choice would not be to use grille guard mounted lights for road use because of the need to angle them down to meet regulations - blinding a police car coming the other way isn't that great an idea.

    I will mount lights if I have an off road need, and then I will get a set of serious Hella lights - you know the 2 mile range type. Probably what will happen is that I will end up with winch mounted as I don't want to mess around swapping winch and lights - and slinging the lights below the winch would kind of defeat the height advantage.
  • I am in the market for a Q/C and the lowest dealer price I have found is 500 dollars over invoice. Is this a good deal? Has anyone bought one for invoice or less? If so, any special bargaining method?
  • steve234steve234 Posts: 460
    crazycanuck; You might look at replacing you existing halogen headlights with xenon bulbs. $15 each, but 30% more illumination ability. Not real cheap, but they are supposed to last longer. You have to make sure your headlights are properly aimed, of course.
  • iowabigguyiowabigguy Posts: 552
    It probably depends on what part of the country you live and the demand. I ordered mine in Omaha Nebraska and after the dealing was done my price was about $160 under invoice. Rick
  • lmeyer1lmeyer1 Posts: 215
    I have a dealer willing to sell me one at invoice. His price matches up exactly with the Edumnds invoice price, except that he is adding a $390 ad fee.

    So the bottom line is he's willing to sell at "true" invoice (i.e., no ad fee), plus $390, plus tax and license-- no other fees like "dealer conveyance", etc.

    Normally, I would have objected to the ad fee, but this guy (the sales manager) was very straightforward.

    We got on the phone. I asked him what he would charge me for the truck I'm interested in. He said $200 over invoice. I asked whether invoice included any ad or other fees, and whether there would be any add ons to the price besides tax and license to get to the out-the-door price.

    He said his invoice did include ad fees, and that the only additional charges would be tax and license. Then I offered him true invoice, i.e., his price minus the $200 markup and minus the $390 ad fees. He said how about giving me the $390, and I said fine.

    I know I could have gotten more off, but I didn't see the point. This guy was honest and easy to deal with, and the price seemed reasonable.

    If, in your case, invoice doesn't include ad fees, and there won't be anything additional besides tax and license, I think you've done pretty well. You could probably grind your way to a better deal, but you have to ask yourself whether it's worth the time and effort.

    You also need to consider whether you want to establish a long-term relationship with the dealer. If you really grind them, you might get things off on the wrong foot. On the other hand, given the lousy stories I've been reading here about DC dealer service, maybe that doesn't make a wit of difference.
  • lmeyer1lmeyer1 Posts: 215
    Iowabigguy makes a good point. Here in the Northeast, everthing is more expensive (or at least it seems to be). Doubt I could have gotten below true invoice.
  • tpmiller1tpmiller1 Posts: 165
    Are you familiar with the Farm Bureau $500.00 discount? From reports here, available if you become a member in all states but Oklahoma. I used this discount to get true dealer invoice. I used one of the on-line services and got a quote from a dodge dealer in Aberdeen Maryland which included the 500 discount, then faxed it around and found a more local dealer to match. E-mail me if you want to know more about the Farm Bureau, can't talk about the Quad, appears to be permanently at ease at railhead.
  • tpmiller1tpmiller1 Posts: 165
    on me moments ago. Appears they're clearing them out of Twin Oaks and managed to get one to Shamokin. All I know is they said my truck has arrived. I think I should have asked at what dealership. Might be a Silverado with three inches of pollen on it. I'm not gettin excited till I see, touch and check out. I know your an old hand at this, but I can barely remember ordering it. Think they'll have Mr. Big call you this time? Will you have time to take the call?
  • bookittybookitty Posts: 1,303
    Honestly Tim, never heard a thing. If you get your truck,that means I'm out here solo. Hope that you do. Maybe we should have stayed in Sunbury.

    Bookitty
  • crazycanuckcrazycanuck Posts: 43
    Thanks for the input on the lights.

    I guess I will settle for the stock lights and see
    if I want to supplement them. Also the xenon bulb
    sounds like a good way to go.

    Are the Quads headlights adjustable as far as angle of light etc...like normal lights I have seen? I couldn't see the adjustment screws to raise/lower etc the beam angle.

    Thanks.

    R.

    (ps. Andy, about the police car bit, I hear ya. That's why we shut off the wig wags after every stop.)
  • spike50spike50 Posts: 481
    crazycanuck - I'm looking at a pair of Catz MSC's Gold Lens that are 3.55" in diameter to mount at the same position the factory fogs would be. Still have to drill out recesses in the apron. I'll try it with a hole saw. They'll be on a separate switch so I can have them on as day-time running lights if I want. I do live in and around wet and low areas so periodically I have fog to deal with.
  • hillflahillfla Posts: 90
    For a good price, check out carorder.com. This is not like the other web sites - in this one you specify all of the options you want and it tallys up the price for you and shows you what you will pay if you order through them. They also show MSRP and invoice right beside their price. They then quote you a price for EXACTLY the quad you want with tax, title and all included! That is the price you will pay. If you place an order through them they will look around for one that you want and if they cannot find it they will order it from the manufacter for you and deliver it to a local dealer or even to your house on a flatbed if you want.
    I might sound like I ordered my quad this way but alas - I found out about carorder.com about a week after I bought my quad off the lot and had to compromise on options. I priced my quad on carorder.com and I would have saved $200 more and got all of the options I wanted! For more info - Edmunds has a whole topic on carorder.com.

    Just a suggestion - I know that some folks have had trouble with carorder - that's why you should read the Edmunds postings.
  • spike50spike50 Posts: 481
    My computer is acting up so did I miss something about your orders? Getting them or not getting them? Same dealer or different one?

    I'm hoping it works out for both of you soon.
  • bookittybookitty Posts: 1,303
    Spike, it looks like Tim's is in, and mine is expected to offload tomorrow. In any event, I cannot pick it up until Monday. I hope that Tim and I have good luck and will be driving our respective trucks next week. I saw a red sport quad with MI plates today on Street Road (132) in Bensalem, PA today. Color matched grille guard, nerf bars and fiberglass folding cover. Sharp vehicle. Thanks for your kind thoughts.

    Bookitty
  • ozarkozark Posts: 124
    I know that everyone like to get a good deal but in your fervor to wring the last dollar out of the deal don't lose sight of the big picture. It seems that when buying a vehicle that cost between $20,000 and $30,000 that you may have to live with for several years the difference of a few hundreds dollars should not be the only determining factor in choosing a dealer. I paid $300 over invoice but could have bought at invoice at another dealer. My final decision factored in customer service, dealer allocation, service after the sale and word of mouth reputation. Just a thought.

    If you are hesitating on buying the Quad. After almost 6,000 miles I would buy another one in a New York minute as they say here in the South. I know GM, Ford, and even Toyota are scambling to make something for this market niche, but they will be hard pressed to beat the Quad for performance and price. Go ahead and buy one, you won't be sorry.
  • guannerguanner Posts: 31
    tpmiller 1, bookitty. glad to know that the two of you will be driving your new quads in the next couple of days.. still waitin for mine hopefully the second week in june.. bookitty here is to hope-in for the right rearend..

    Scott
  • crazycanuckcrazycanuck Posts: 43
    Keepin our fingers crossed for ya Tim and Bookitty....keep us informed.

    R.
  • haddonhaddon Posts: 26
    Dealer called yesterday with the news, this truck was delivered to Washington,PA, so you guys in PA waiting your truck may have been on the same hauler as mine. Washington is about 40 miles southwest of Pitts. Iwill pick my truck up on sat. I HOPE
  • bookittybookitty Posts: 1,303
    Received the long awaited call that my truck was in from the truck sales manager of the dealership.
    He is aware that I cannot continue to work with the salesman ("He who suffers fools, is himself a fool"). Made an appointment to take delivery on Monday 05/15 and under cursory inspection (just now offloaded) everything looks okay. he is also going to make me a deal for an extended warranty to salve my soul. Quad Cab 4X4 Amber Fire Pearl, 4.7, 3.55 LSD, HD Service Group, SLT, SLT Plus, Overhead Convenience Group, All Power (except seats), Skid Plates, Sliding Rear Window, Engine Block Heater, 6X9 Power Mirrors, Leather Wrapped wheel, Tire and Handling Package, Remote Entry, Trailer Tow Group and that...that...that...that's
    all ffffolks!

    Bookitty
  • tpmiller1tpmiller1 Posts: 165
    haddon-bookitty and me within 24 hours. Thanks to themacguy for pointing one of them trainloads northeast!
    Haddon-I think bookitty ought to get us central and western PA boys 2 additional cheap extended warranties.
  • bobsyveebobsyvee Posts: 63
    Friday, March 17: Log into Autobytel, fill out the online form and submit. As I am typing in Autoadvantage.com, the phone rings. It's from the area dealer that has the agreement with Autobytel. I'm told that by going through the internet, I can get the vehicle at invoice. Since I'm already armed with all of the pricing info gleaned from various websites, I tell the salesman I'll see him at 2 the next day.

    I gave him the list with the specific options, and he comes back with his "invoice" price. Hmm, it's $470 more than mine.
    ! Added advertising fees !
    But he did explain it to me. No pressure, no hassle, and no "You really should get the fabric protection at only a gazillion $$ more."
    So I ordered my Amber Fire / Lt.Driftwood satin QC, 4.7, auto, SLT+, etc.
    Of course I was told that it was ordered by the dealer on Monday the 20th, and of course after finding these topics I called DC the first week of April to hear the dealer actually ordered the truck on the 30th. Now I'm leery.
    Anyway, the truck is built and waiting for a full load to be put together, to ship. It's only 7 hours to the dealer on the truck.(Lucky for me no rail dust) I can't wait!!!
    I've written down all the problems listed in the topics, so I'll know what to look for.
This discussion has been closed.