Luxury Lounge

houdini1

This is hilarious. Speaking of funny, check out the "Stories from the Sales Frontline" forum. Very entertaining.

pat

Heh, that's really a terrific forum, isn't it!! :P

tagman

Well they are different engines. The FJ uses Toyota's 4.0L truck engine. The 3.5L in Lexus form with direct injection and VVT on intake and exhaust valves is very fuel efficient for the amount of power that it produces, much more so than the Acura and Infiniti 3.5s.

We're talking a heavy SUV here... mileage in the teens isn't going to be anything to get all too excited about.

The Mercedes GL 320 CDI averages mid twenties! And is more luxurious than an RX.

TagMan

tagman

This is hilarious. Speaking of funny, check out the "Stories from the Sales Frontline" forum. Very entertaining.

Thanks, houdini... what a riot!

TagMan

tagman

OK, Doc. BTW, maybe you want to wash it all down with a German beer?

Uh....last I heard, Lexus had the Best Retention in the business. Don't you know these facts?

No... sorry, you are close, but no cigar!. Lexus is behind Toyota, and Honda is third almost at the same percentage as Lexus and BMW is also almost the same at fourth position.

TM

lexusguy

The Mercedes GL 320 CDI averages mid twenties! And is more luxurious than an RX.

The current RX350 gets about 20 combined. I have to assume that the '09 will put on weight, but Lexus has generally been good at keeping the RX from getting too porky.

I don't think the GL is particularly impressive on the inside, certainly its no match for the Q7 or X5.

tagman

I have to assume that the '09 will put on weight, but Lexus has generally been good at keeping the RX from getting too porky.

We were talking about the new long wheelbase version, with third row seating, which will surely be heavier.

TagMan

tagman

I don't think the GL is particularly impressive on the inside, certainly its no match for the Q7 or X5.

It's conservative, I would say... but extremely tasteful... no Vegas-style or overkill going on, that's for sure.

It's been well-received, and it is the king of third row comfort, excluding the Suburban. Most every review puts it at the top.

TagMan

drfill

Lexus and Toyota like to play Hot Potato with that, Lexus having won in '05.

More information on the future:

http://www.autospies.com/news/Study-When-Gasoline-Reaches-3-50-A-Gallon-45-Of-Am- - ericans-Will-Buy-Hybrids-17812/

The original article is from AN.

DrFill

tagman

I saw that, Doc. Here's a quote from that article:

"Some 40 percent of Americans would curb their driving habits if retail gasoline prices shot up to $3.50 a gallon, according to a Reuters/Zogby poll released today."

Here's the skinny on that. California has been the proving ground for what people would REALLY do, because gas already reached that level numerous times in the past year, and is at that level now in many areas here.

When it comes down to it, people have barely curbed their driving habits at all. Sure, the smaller, fuel efficient market is hot, and hybrids are a part of it, but the JD Power study I posted earlier today is only 48 hours old, and it shows a cooling off towards hybrids.

Since you refer to the future and the AutoSpies website, take their LIVE poll about hybrids vs. diesels vs. ethanol and then see the results!!!

I think you will be surprised to see that diesels are currently scoring about TWICE the score of hybrids as the preferred solution for the future!!!!

See for yourself... link title

Amen.

TagMan

drfill

That's all fine and dandy, but people are voting with their wallets that Hybrids are the way to go.

BTW, California is Toyota country anyway. Toyota and CA go way back. :shades:

When I see a diesel as popular as the Prius, then we'll talk shop.

I've got a pole, and it's better than anything on Autospies. :P

DrFill

tagman

You were the one that brought up the survey on Autospies... just because their poll shows diesels preferred by a two-to-one margin... now you don't like it.

And... the market will have its chance with diesels in the near future. We're not there yet, and you know it. All indications from every study show that diesels are likely to become the preferred choice.

IIRC, I posted an article from AutoWeek yesterday suggesting the same thing.

BTW, understand clearly that I am not knocking the Prius. It makes a lot more sense to me than the LS600hL ever could.

TagMan

syswei

I feel the GX is too narrow, and body lean is excessive. A friend of my wife's had one but traded it for an RX because the GX's body roll made her feel unsafe.

drfill

They just linked the article, it's not their piece. I only credit them with spy shots. They don't have much credibility with their other musings. Many of their pieces are embarassing. MT-level waste. :lemon:

Chevy's Volt is supposed to do this and that, but GM is already backpedalling.

I could give a Rat's tail what someone says they can do. I care about what you are doing now, and what you've done in the past.

The future is anyone's guess. All I know is Toyota is driving this train. The Orient Express?

All aboard! Woo-Woo! :surprise:

DrFill

drfill

as am I, so tell me Syswei, what really matters to you?

New Style? Max luxury? Towing? 3rd seat? Power? Brand?

DrFill

tagman

I could give a Rat's tail what someone says they can do. I care about what you are doing now, and what you've done in the past.

You don't give a rat's tail what someone says they can do? ... unless it's Toyota! You've certainly given a rat's tail about the upcoming LI batteries that Toyota is supposedly going to use.

All I know is Toyota is driving this train.

As with most trains, the locomotive is a diesel, my friend. :P

TagMan

drfill

Let's bring back Swing Dancing while we're at it. A Sign of the Times. :P

Maybe Toyota prefers the Bullet Train? Those run on good ole' Edison power!

As I've said before, Toyota probably won't be the first to offer Lithium-Ion batteries. They will wait until it is just right. They aren't in a chase position. They drive the train.

Toyota doesn't need Lithium-Ion to get the job done, as they've PROVEN. Toyota doesn't live and die by this battery. But it would help finish off the "competition".

People just EXPECT Toyota to get the job done.

It's a lot of pressure, really.

DrFill

brightness04

Tag, IMHO, that lower "desire" is translating into higher sales at the same time . . . kinda paradoxical. What's really going on is the normal adoption process for any new technology: the standard fantasy-disappointment-redemption cycle. When it's vaporware, everyone could project their dream onto it . . . when the real product is delivered, many would find their dreams dashed . . . yet over time, more and more people would find the reality quite appealing even if it's not as fantastic as the dreams. Remember the early days of PC? The mass media made it sound like everyone woulld soon have an electronic maid cooking dinner at home. We still don't have that even after a quarter century . . . heck we don't even use PC's for answering phone calls as receptionist at home (half the businesses that do get customer complaints about lack of real person at help desk) . . . many people poopoo'd the computers when it failed to deliver the fantasy . . . yet it didn't take long before computers became indispensable. . . because they were good enough :-)

brightness04

IIRC, RX competes more or less in the segment with X5 and ML. The Lexus 4.6L V8 is not nearly as thirsty as the 4.8 from BMW or the 5.5 from MB. Even then, I have my doubts whether a V8 would be offered, when a 3.5L V6+hybrid can easily deliver 350hp or so.

brightness04

The V6 in FJ is an old-hat 4.0L from the 4Runner. Lexus has a very nice new 3.5L V6 that delivers about 300hp. It's incredibly fuel efficient too.

brightness04

The new Lexus 5.6 is actually more fuel efficient than the old 4.7. What Lexus has done with that V8 and the 3.5L V6 in the same generation of engines is quite remarkable. While MB was out playing with strap-on's, Lexus put together some real gem engines.

brightness04

Yup; what's more, it would fair even worse in a matchup pitting smart vs. some old beater truck with solid bumpers. The socalled advanced safety cage on "smart" is actually the removal of crumple zones; the marketting spin is that so that the solid cage bars would "activiate" the cumple zones on big cars. I kid you not, "activate" is the word used by those spinmeisters. Now I want to see how those solid tubular bars "activate" non-existent crumple zones on old beater trucks or a telephone pole/tree/concrete barrier.

brightness04

The back end looks familiar . . . oh, wait, it's the Ford Freestyle!

www.edmunds.com//pictures/EI/2007/Ford/2007.ford.freestyle.20098561-E.jpg

tagman

You guys simply MUST watch this video... and tell me what you think.

link title



TagMan

drfill

Sounds great. Obviously more in the Honda Insight mold. Probably weighs less than a ton, and obviously doesn't seat more than....one?

I Don't think he has engineered it to pass emissions and crash safety regulations.

GM should sign him up. That's what I think.

DrFill

brightness04

1. If I have to take a guess, the certification is for a sub-2000lb motorcycle, not a car. Three-wheel designs are a classic approach to get motorcycle certifications for "ecocars."

2. Goes to show that it's relatively easy to build a light vehicle that is high performance and/or fuel mizing . . . well, Honda and Yamaha motorcycles have been proving that for decades. They have motorcycles that can do 0-60 in 3 seconds and return 60+mpg in fuel test routines (not doing the two in the same test routine of course; nor does this one).

3. Making the vehicle conform to safety/crash standards for cars, and make it useful in terms of interior capacity (both passenger and cargo), without reducing its performance or fuel economy to meaninglessness, will be tough challenges.

4. All that being said, I'm curious what the designer meant by "fuel vaporization." Isn't that what carberetors and fuel injectors have been doing?

houdini1

As with most trains, the locomotive is a diesel, my friend.

Actually they are diesel/electric hybrids!!

houdini1

Imagine this thing with wings and a tail and Brightness would have his new aeroplane!!

houdini1

Good post, but don't forget how important "vaporware" is. That is how every great invention has to start out, and the ability to come up with it is what separates us funny little monkeys from the rest of the funny little monkeys!

houdini1

That is also my understanding. I do not believe any other SUV can hold a candle to the LX, even the old one. And the 570 will be light years ahead of the rest. My current one gets a combined average or 15 mpg, mostly around town.

Today, however, 15 mpg is not very good. I continue to justify it by the fact that we only put about 10,000 miles per year on it.

lexusguy

You guys simply MUST watch this video... and tell me what you think.

Reminds me a bit of VW's "1L" concept from a few years ago, the "hundred mpg wonder". I'm not sure if it handled as well, but it was the same idea. You'll notice VW didn't produce it, because they knew nobody would buy it. 98% of potential buyers would be just like that woman - "cute, now show me the 4-seat version", and when told thats all there is, they'll walk. I think Tesla motors currently has the best shot at shaking up the mainstream auto industry.

pat

Ackk!! That thing gives me a claustrophobia attack just to look at it!

2001gs430

Checked with a Lexus forum, the general real life MPG for the RX is around 20 when new and mid 20's when engine break-in is completed.
I was close to picking up the LX470, but decided to go with the RX350 for now. It would be financially less painful to unload it for the new LX570 if it turned out as good as the promo said.

syswei

The Mercedes GL 320 CDI averages mid twenties! And is more luxurious than an RX.

Only on the highway, according to EPA. Combined rating is 20mpg. Of course, it is considerably larger than the RX. So 20 is not bad at all; in fact I'd get one for my wife if it were reliable enough....sadly, it isn't.

It is more luxurious than the RX, but at that price point, it ought to be.

designman

I think it's cool for a driver but I'm trying to figure out how the passenger fares. Something tells me an adult cannot fit in the backseat, nor would he want to. I also wonder what kind of dynamic and aerodynamic consideration and testing it went through. Aerodynamic yaw stability at high speed looks a bit suspect. Pitch also. That back end looks like it could become unseated without much effort at high speed. It must be fun designing and building something like that.

2001gs430

lifeless steering
For a lot of people, this low effort steering is an advantage.

lexusguy

For a lot of people, this low effort steering is an advantage.

There's a clear difference though between "low effort" and "filled with maple syrup". There are a few sports cars with very light but very communicative racks. It's that communication that makes a car fun to drive, as it lets you know what the tires and suspension are up to, and where the limit is. The best steering Lexus has ever done was in the IS300. The IS350 would probably come in second, and the SC400 third. The RX is down at the bottom of the list.

drfill

You have a pretty sweet ride if that's your complaint. People don't buy an RX for telepathic steering. For an SUV, it is more than acceptable.

DrFill

tagman

People don't buy an RX for telepathic steering. For an SUV, it is more than acceptable.

Even I agree with that. :surprise:

TagMan

tagman

Just for you...

link title

1. Plug in
2. LI battery pack

Looks like a pretty good hint at where they are headed with the next Prius.

TagMan

tagman

Looks like the stakes have been raised:

link title

TagMan

tagman

Why does the U.S. market always seem to come in second?



Story and press release:

link title

TagMan

syswei

I suggest being wary of mpg conversions that are based on European data. They definitely use a different testing regime vs EPA. And they might be using imperial gallons.

Take a look at the mpg data on the mercedes uk site and then compare to U.S. EPA for the same vehicles, diesel or gas.

tagman

I suggest being wary of mpg conversions that are based on European data.

True.

OK... so here's the European data: 3.9 liters of fuel per 100 kilometers.

Are you saying that doesn't convert to 62 American mpg?

TagMan

syswei

I'm saying that

1. you don't know if that's city or highway or combined

2. you don't know what standards / testing program was used...was is like the old epa method, the new one, or easier than the old one or what?

3. go to the uk lexus site and you'll see the following for the GS430:

Urban mpg 17.3
Extra urban mpg 32.8
Combined mpg 24.8

Goto fueleconomy.gov for the GS430 and you see (new epa) 19 mpg combined

tagman

All very good points.

I will say that even though it makes sense that the actual numbers can't be determined... it's a safe bet that the vehicle delivers outstanding fuel economy... thus the reason for the headline.

TagMan

syswei

it's a safe bet that the vehicle delivers outstanding fuel economy

Fair enough, but with only a 1.4 liter diesel, what would one expect?

I can't see any of the "enthusiasts" on this board going for a 1.4 liter engine in any car.

tagman

I can't see any of the "enthusiasts" on this board going for a 1.4 liter engine in any car.

I certainly agree with THAT! However, what "enthusiast" would ever consider a Prius either? ... sometimes the topic of discussion.



TagMan

houdini1

Speaking of MPG. A recent study showed that the average American walks 900 miles per year. Another study showed that the average American drinks 22 gallons of beer a year.

That means that we get about 41 MPG!! :shades:

tagman

Excellent work, houdini!

Unfortunately, my mileage might be a little worse, as I tend to get a little thirsty too often.

(Those Michelob ULTRAs are all to easy to drink.)

TagMan