Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

stickguy

those MSRPs are eye watering. No wonder they aren't selling! I do love the color combo on the Laramie though. But dang, for a barge that big that won't even fit in the garage, the bed is only a foot longer than the one in my baby truck Maverick.

corvette

@tjc78 - I like the interior on the white one better, but the dark red exterior looks great!

Michaell

Does the employee pricing still work for a lease?

nyccarguy

@Michaell said:
Does the employee pricing still work for a lease?

I don’t know. I know you look at a lot of numbers, but have you seen a decrease in incentives, uptick in money factor, or decrease in residuals for FORD since they announced the employee pricing?

I’ve seen reels where people say they you can do better than employee pricing…. By how much I don’t know.

It does make sense. They don’t want to sell the inventory cheap and then get stuck with it 3 years later. Although if they were to offer some attractively priced leases they might move some more metal. They don’t have any small cars or sedans to compete with the Camry & Corolla. I guess they could do it with Escapes, but I don’t think that’s what rotting on the lots. Fords aren’t inexpensive cars.

Michaell

nyccarguy said:

@Michaell said:

Does the employee pricing still work for a lease?

I don’t know. I know you look at a lot of numbers, but have you seen a decrease in incentives, uptick in money factor, or decrease in residuals for FORD since they announced the employee pricing?

I’ve seen reels where people say they you can do better than employee pricing…. By how much I don’t know.

It does make sense. They don’t want to sell the inventory cheap and then get stuck with it 3 years later. Although if they were to offer some attractively priced leases they might move some more metal. They don’t have any small cars or sedans to compete with the Camry & Corolla. I guess they could do it with Escapes, but I don’t think that’s what rotting on the lots. Fords aren’t inexpensive cars.

For Ford, specifically, the incentives went way down and the MF (APR for Ford) went way up for April, probably to offset the "employee pricing for everyone" event. I suspect at the end of the day, the payment is probably the same as it was in March.

stickguy

a local Chevy dealer has been running "let me talk to you" ads (one guy, on a stool) pushing that they are looking to move cars so offering discounts now to beat the tariffs on what they have in stock. They might cause a disaster later, but short term, could generate a little spike in sales.

and just got an Email from the Ford dealer in Philly that I bought my Mavericks from touting the employee pricing for all. Not that big a deal from them though, since they are the dealer that sells everything below invoice (or at it) on anything you order. That though probably is not going to be popular right now! At least they don't (though may now) charge any kind of deposit to put the order in.

as much as I would like something new (to shake things up!) I really have no desire to actually be out shopping now or anytime soon. Good thing that barring a calamity, there isn't any reason we need to for years to come. Whole family is set, since both kids have newer cars that are purchased (no leases in the family now) so can ride it out too.

nyccarguy

@Michaell said:
For Ford, specifically, the incentives went way down and the MF (APR for Ford) went way up for April, probably to offset the "employee pricing for everyone" event. I suspect at the end of the day, the payment is probably the same as it was in March.

It seems like just another gimmick to move metal off the lots. I know everyone has their own experiences and preferences when it comes to auto brands. Not every vehicle Toyota makes is a sales home run. Toyota doesn’t seem to have problems selling hundreds of thousands of their bread and butter Camrys, Corollas, & RAV4s or leasing them out with money factors that equate to 6%. The prices on used ones are sky high too. Maybe they are on to something .

stickguy

spend decades building up a reputation for quality and reliability, and make good products at a reasonable price?

Surprised no company came up with that crazy plan before them!

roadburner

So my wife and I were cruising down I-265 and we come up on a new Ignition Red BRZ.

Wife: "What car is that?'
Me: "A Subaru BRZ."
Wife: "I really like it."
Me: "It has received good reviews."
Wife: "It's really nice."

Too bad there's nothing I want to trade off...

stickguy

I really like those. Was high on the list if I was to get a sports car as a 3rd one in the fleet. I did test drive a gen 1 version and it was a lot of fun, and surprisingly roomy (at least compared to a Miata!) And a little bit easier to get in and out of. Still low though.

roadburner

If I bought one it would have to be a tS in order to get the good suspension and adequate brakes.

Michaell

roadburner said:

So my wife and I were cruising down I-265 and we come up on a new Ignition Red BRZ.

Wife: "What car is that?'
Me: "A Subaru BRZ."
Wife: "I really like it."
Me: "It has received good reviews."
Wife: "It's really nice."

Too bad there's nothing I want to trade off...

Uh, wouldn't a net add make her happy?

au1994

roadburner said:

So my wife and I were cruising down I-265 and we come up on a new Ignition Red BRZ.

Wife: "What car is that?'
Me: "A Subaru BRZ."
Wife: "I really like it."
Me: "It has received good reviews."
Wife: "It's really nice."

Too bad there's nothing I want to trade off...

I forget, didn’t someone have one briefly? Or the Toyota version? @breld would be the usual suspect.

tjc78

@explorerx4 said:
No running boards on the Laramie. Not sure about lease terms but Limited price is less than the Laramie.

The Laramie has power running boards. The price on the Limited is fake. No one would ever apply for all the rebates (they don’t stack) especially on the lease. Thats why my lease quote was over $1000. The MSRP of the Limited is about 10K more.

I’ll probably get quotes on the burgundy one. There are lots of Rams and the Laramie lease program isn’t bad.

The dealer with the Limited offered a 70K Laramie sub $700 with just first out of pocket without any negotiation. They want to move these.

@Michaell Not sure about Employee pricing but discounts over 10K are pretty typical right now.

explorerx4

@tjc78,
I missed the running boards as a standalone option.

tjc78

@explorerx4 said:
@tjc78,
I missed the running boards as a standalone option.

So did I the first time. It was the last line on the window sticker

tjc78

@stickguy said:
those MSRPs are eye watering. No wonder they aren't selling! I do love the color combo on the Laramie though. But dang, for a barge that big that won't even fit in the garage, the bed is only a foot longer than the one in my baby truck Maverick.

Pricing is inline with the other manufacturers, but yeah it’s nuts. Bed is plenty big for me. You can get a 6’ 4” bed but that’s overkill for me.

nyccarguy

roadburner said:

If I bought one it would have to be a tS in order to get the good suspension and adequate brakes.

You've already got one momentum vehicle and we know that @jmonroe has a better chance at registering a punch by selling or trading in his "Old Man Grey" Genesis before you part with your dearly beloved 318ti.

Did you happen to catch this BMW 323ti on BAT?

nyccarguy

roadburner said:

So my wife and I were cruising down I-265 and we come up on a new Ignition Red BRZ.

Wife: "What car is that?'
Me: "A Subaru BRZ."
Wife: "I really like it."
Me: "It has received good reviews."
Wife: "It's really nice."

Too bad there's nothing I want to trade off...

I dig the BRZ and the Toyota GR86. There's a lot to like as the reviews say. A very compliant and capable RWD platform. Under 3,000 lb curb weight. 6-Speed stick. All models have a standard limited slip differential. The Flat 4 isn't capable of blazing speeds. According to Subaru's website, the 2.4L 4 delivers a "linear torque curve." I'm sure the Premium "base" suspension is more than I'd ever need for commuting purposes.

The only thing that scares me is some of the maintenance requirements, specifically changing of the spark plugs which I've seen (on the 1st gen) is an engine out service.

Subaru is currently offering 2.9% financing for 72 months on 2024 BRZ models and 4.9% for 36 months on 2025 models.

stickguy

Don’t see a lot of them up here in snow country. Or probably anywhere since they are a low volume model!

graphicguy

@oldfarmer50 ...thought of you yesterday when I heard Kia is discontinuing the Sole. I know you love yours and I always thought they filled a nice segment in the marketplace. Too bad. Hope they replace with something as popular and well liked.

nyccarguy

Let's hear it for Crazy Eddie car prices (his prices are IN-SANE!). Here is a 2007 Subaru Forester XT with under 100K miles, a full Subaru dealership service history including, but not limited to (3) diff fluid changes, new brakes, & a timing belt. Interestingly enough, it failed NJ emissions inspection in late December of '24 and traded in late January/early February of this year. Perhaps a chip or tune? Rusted out exhaust system? What star system is this vehicle worth anywhere near its $12,999 (plus NJ dealer doc fee)?

suydam

graphicguy said:

@oldfarmer50 ...thought of you yesterday when I heard Kia is discontinuing the Sole. I know you love yours and I always thought they filled a nice segment in the marketplace. Too bad. Hope they replace with something as popular and well liked.

Personally I like the Sportage much better.

tjc78

Just realized th> @nyccarguy said:

Let's hear it for Crazy Eddie car prices (his prices are IN-SANE!). Here is a 2007 Subaru Forester XT with under 100K miles, a full Subaru dealership service history including, but not limited to (3) diff fluid changes, new brakes, & a timing belt. Interestingly enough, it failed NJ emissions inspection in late December of '24 and traded in late January/early February of this year. Perhaps a chip or tune? Rusted out exhaust system? What star system is this vehicle worth anywhere near its $12,999 (plus NJ dealer doc fee)?

Wow - I’ve officially tapped out of the beater car game. It’s too chaotic dealing with the FB sellers and the dealers have lost their minds.

I will just make sure to use my Wife’s car at least one week a month (she puts literally 15 miles a week) and if in a bind always have my Mom’s car.

roadburner

nyccarguy said:

roadburner said:

If I bought one it would have to be a tS in order to get the good suspension and adequate brakes.

You've already got one momentum vehicle and we know that @jmonroe has a better chance at registering a punch by selling or trading in his "Old Man Grey" Genesis before you part with your dearly beloved 318ti.

Did you happen to catch this BMW 323ti on BAT?

If that car was located in the US I don't think that I could have resisted- Dakar Yellow and an I6? Heaven!

qbrozen

tjc78 said:

Wow - I’ve officially tapped out of the beater car game. It’s too chaotic dealing with the FB sellers and the dealers have lost their minds.

I will just make sure to use my Wife’s car at least one week a month (she puts literally 15 miles a week) and if in a bind always have my Mom’s car.

One less competitor for me. lol.

I found this really nice looking trailblazer ('03 with very low miles) yesterday. Reached out to the dealer. They responded quickly, and I followed up with my questions and why I wouldn't be coming in person (170 miles away). This morn, the salesperson responded that buyers HAVE to come in person. I honestly can't believe dealerships who can't keep up with progress are still in business.

nyccarguy

This 2011 Scion xB won't help with towing, nor will it win you any red light drag races. This seems pricey to me as well.

stickguy

If I eventually inherit a low mile 2020ish Sentra I may just hang onto it. Unless it is worth $15k in which case it goes!

tjc78

@qbrozen said:
One less competitor for me. lol.

I found this really nice looking trailblazer ('03 with very low miles) yesterday. Reached out to the dealer. They responded quickly, and I followed up with my questions and why I wouldn't be coming in person (170 miles away). This morn, the salesperson responded that buyers HAVE to come in person. I honestly can't believe dealerships who can't keep up with progress are still in business.

Have at it!

Dealer is a moron who obviously can’t close via email and phone. You’d think they would embrace it. You can handle multiple customers at once.

qbrozen

nyccarguy said:

This 2011 Scion xB won't help with towing, nor will it win you any red light drag races. This seems pricey to me as well.

good grief. 140k-mile penalty box for over $7k? Heck no.

explorerx4

I think the 'You have to come into the dealer' is due to auto brokers and the fact that some dealerships are using call centers for phone sales inquiries.
Have you ever watched the YT 'Delivrd' channel?

tjc78

Me - Submit nice inquiry to dealer website including all relevant details to provide quote

Dealer - Hi Thomas please provide me the below information to quote you.

Me - reads the ask and it’s every question I already typed in the inquiry

Dealer - new person reaches out asking for a phone call.

Me - responds that I already typed all this information in (to both people and explain email is best)

Dealer - When is your lease up?

Me - don’t worry about my lease I’m keeping it term and it’s not part of the transaction

Dealer - other person - oh good you’re being helped

To be continued

xwesx

I don't understand these bidders.... I figured they would have tapped out at about $10K on this one, but, as of when I copied this, it is still going....

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/rNqaGbeP/2015-audi-q7-tdi?utm_source=pd&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=n

explorerx4

Bidding still going! Now over @16K even with TMU.

tifighter

I had a red gen 1 86 for awhile

xwesx

explorerx4 said:

Bidding still going! Now over @16K even with TMU.

Yeah, I found it to be a definite red flag in terms of competitive value, but apparently people were transfixed by the idea that it was still under the scandal warranty... for however many few months it could possibly have left on it. I know from experience that the warranty wasn't all it was cracked up to be!

C&B notes that the final sale was $16,000 on the nose.

jmonroe1

roadburner said:

So my wife and I were cruising down I-265 and we come up on a new Ignition Red BRZ.

Wife: "What car is that?'
Me: "A Subaru BRZ."
Wife: "I really like it."
Me: "It has received good reviews."
Wife: "It's really nice."

Too bad there's nothing I want to trade off...

————————————————
Trade, schmade, just buy. Bad excuse.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50

graphicguy said:

@oldfarmer50 ...thought of you yesterday when I heard Kia is discontinuing the Sole. I know you love yours and I always thought they filled a nice segment in the marketplace. Too bad. Hope they replace with something as popular and well liked.

Really? I hadn’t heard that. I suppose that explains why they never include the Soul in their “come on down” circulars they mail me. It’s not a car I’m in love with. It met a number of requirements at a cheap price point.

oldfarmer50

nyccarguy said:

Let's hear it for Crazy Eddie car prices (his prices are IN-SANE!). Here is a 2007 Subaru Forester XT with under 100K miles, a full Subaru dealership service history including, but not limited to (3) diff fluid changes, new brakes, & a timing belt. Interestingly enough, it failed NJ emissions inspection in late December of '24 and traded in late January/early February of this year. Perhaps a chip or tune? Rusted out exhaust system? What star system is this vehicle worth anywhere near its $12,999 (plus NJ dealer doc fee)?

Well, if you go look at it and it doesn’t pan out at least you can get a good sandwich at Lotito’s just down the street at the Interstate shopping plaza.

oldfarmer50

tjc78 said:

Just realized th> @nyccarguy said:

Let's hear it for Crazy Eddie car prices (his prices are IN-SANE!). Here is a 2007 Subaru Forester XT with under 100K miles, a full Subaru dealership service history including, but not limited to (3) diff fluid changes, new brakes, & a timing belt. Interestingly enough, it failed NJ emissions inspection in late December of '24 and traded in late January/early February of this year. Perhaps a chip or tune? Rusted out exhaust system? What star system is this vehicle worth anywhere near its $12,999 (plus NJ dealer doc fee)?

Wow - I’ve officially tapped out of the beater car game. It’s too chaotic dealing with the FB sellers and the dealers have lost their minds.

I will just make sure to use my Wife’s car at least one week a month (she puts literally 15 miles a week) and if in a bind always have my Mom’s car.

Start hanging out at the old folks home or maybe Craigslist.

https://york.craigslist.org/ctd/d/york-2009-buick-lucerne-cxl-special/7842887469.html

qbrozen

xwesx said:

I don't understand these bidders.... I figured they would have tapped out at about $10K on this one, but, as of when I copied this, it is still going....

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/rNqaGbeP/2015-audi-q7-tdi?utm_source=pd&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=n

Former Canadian, rollback, and a $4500 accident. That is brutal. Even $7k would be overpaying, IMHO.

xwesx

qbrozen said:

xwesx said:

I don't understand these bidders.... I figured they would have tapped out at about $10K on this one, but, as of when I copied this, it is still going....

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/rNqaGbeP/2015-audi-q7-tdi?utm_source=pd&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=n

Former Canadian, rollback, and a $4500 accident. That is brutal. Even $7k would be overpaying, IMHO.

I agree! I was giving them the "C&B markup" at $10K.

ab348

I watched a Motormouth review of the new Toyota Tacoma today. They usually do pretty softball reviews but this one had enough criticisms to make me think even they were not impressed. Two things jumped out at me. They tested the TRD Pro model which has different seats designed for off-roading which have exposed shock absorbers mounted on the rear of the front seat backs. Those eat up enough rear legroom to make the seat uninhabitable for all except little kids. They also complained that the drivers seat was very difficult to enter, maybe also due to the design of those seats. The pricing up here is nuts too. The top-line model goes for $87,000 worthless Canadian dollars. Holy cats!

ab348

Also watched a different channel showing off the new 2026 Subaru Outback. Nice interior, but man, that is one unattractively styled car, especially in Wildnerness trim.

corvette

roadburner said:

So my wife and I were cruising down I-265 and we come up on a new Ignition Red BRZ.

It has some similarities with your 318ti, in spirit, cylinder count, and color... Is there room for one more in the fleet?

xwesx

ab348 said:

Also watched a different channel showing off the new 2026 Subaru Outback. Nice interior, but man, that is one unattractively styled car, especially in Wildnerness trim.

Amen, sir! 1998 called, and they want their Forester back!

roadburner

corvette said:

roadburner said:

So my wife and I were cruising down I-265 and we come up on a new Ignition Red BRZ.

It has some similarities with your 318ti, in spirit, cylinder count, and color... Is there room for one more in the fleet?

It really is quite similar, including dimensions and weight (fun fact: the ti has more rear head and leg room than an E36 sedan). That said, the ti is around 2 seconds slower to 60.

xwesx

@qbrozen - Remember that Escalade on C&B? Bid to $17,000 and still didn't meet the reserve! What does this owner think he has?!

au1994

xwesx said:

@qbrozen - Remember that Escalade on C&B? Bid to $17,000 and still didn't meet the reserve! What does this owner think he has?!

Looking for a premium for the low miles, I guess.

tjc78

Well - no punch to report. The dealer who was willing to take a skinny deal doesn’t have any in stock like I want. The burgundy one I posted (along with the story) is looking like it fizzled out. They aren’t willing to dig deep. They came out with $772 a month with 4% off sticker plus rebates. I said the other dealer was at nearly 8% before rebates and to calculate the lease on that. They didn’t and asked for what I wanted. I said $700 and I will buy.

Crickets …

This is why I’m starting now while it’s all pre tariff inventory. I’ll tell you one thing … there are no shortage of Rams. I’m going to do another search and find my ideal spec somewhere else and start again. The options vary so much you have click every one because a 72K example can be perfect or not even close.