Tires, tires, tires

obyone

I'm glad you said it wasn't a brand thing cause I had really cheap Generals on my truck and upgraded to Michelins which made more squeal on turns that the cheap Generals. Especially on smooth concrete.

capriracer

Obyone,

Just so this is clear, unlike your experience, there will be Michelin tires that do not squeal, and General tires that do. It is more connected to alignment and road surface than to tire brand.

But if you want to look solely at tires, then complex tread patterns - especially tread patterns with open shoulders (common in all season tires) - are more likely to squeal than simple straight ribbed patterns. But there are enough exceptions to this to render what I just wrote as not a good rule because the texture of the road surface plays a HUGE role in how the tread pattern interacts to generate noise.

exbdishin

Hi all,

I'm looking to replace the tires on my '07 Ford Expedition EL. I'm planning to make a 1,000+ mile round trip across the desert in 40C heat next weekend (on highways, not dunes!) so I want something that's good quality but not too expensive because I'm skint at the moment.

I went to a local dealer who didn't have the original Pirellis I was looking for but suggested Cooper Tires at $50-100 each less than the Pirellis. I'm from England so I've never heard of Cooper - are they any good? Or should I spend the extra cash on the Big Ps? Any advice or Coopers testimonials gratefully received!

TIA

shark715

I'm good friends with the owner of a local tire store, and he recommended Cooper as a economical alternative to the Goodyears that came on my Jeep Grand Cherokee (and he is a Goodyear dealer, too). I saved a lot of money, can't say I noticed any difference whatsoever, and the treadlife seemed just as long. I will say that I did not like the Pirelli tires that came on my Mercedes SLK. They had great handling, but rode very rough, and were far, far too easily damaged by potholes (I live in NJ). Of course the Pirellis on my SLK are totally different then the tires on your truck. Another great source for tires is tirerack.com. Several friends and I have bought from them numerous times, and while the process is more complicated, you can save a significant amount of money.

jeffyscott

If you're lucky you may find an independent repair shop that will be very close to tire rack, without the hassle.

We have local guy we use, he charges maybe $20 per tire more than tire rack's price, but then there is no shipping and he charges about $10 less per tire for M&B, if you buy the tires through him rather than bring in tires from tire rack. He is not a tire shop, but is able to get about any tire we want from his suppliers within a few days.

shark715

When you figure out which way is less expensive, don't forget to include that you will not have to pay sales tax with Tirerack so long as you are not in a state where they have a distribution center (see their website for details). If you can find someone locally who can come close to their prices, you are doing really well. One tactic I have used in the past is to take the printout from Tire Rack (along with the costs of one their local installers) to local tire dealers. Sometimes they will match total prices with installation. Costco also usually (but not all the time) has very good prices on tires. You can see their prices at costco.com even if you are not a member, but you would have to pay the $45 membership fee to buy them if you are not a member already.

altair4

YMMV, but in my (very) limited experience, the overall price, once shipping and mounting are included brings tire rack very close to some of my local shops. I'd really shop your local dealers for the best deal. Plus, while I haven't had to deal with it, I wouldn't want to try and deal with the hassle of a warranty issue. Just my opinion....

exbdishin

Thanks for the advice. As it turns out, the only Cooper dealer I could find here ran out of stock and said he was unlikely to get any before I need them at the weekend. So I got some Continental Contitraks instead. They don't get very good reviews from Tirerack but never mind.

Incidentally, the guy I got the Continentals from said that the Coopers sold here in Saudi Arabia are actually retreaded refurbs imported from the UAE and aren't any good. I would be interested in finding out if this is actually true.

concrete1717

JUL 2010 CR states tire rolling resistance accounts for 4% to 7% of vehicle fuel use. The only all-season tires with CR "excellent" rolling resistance: Michelin Energy Saver A/S - CR "recommended", and Uniroyal Tiger Paw Tour SR (S speed rating) - handling and treadlife "fair". CR lists 4 tires with "very good" rolling resistance, but those tires have other issues reducing overall CR score.

shark715

I agree if the total installed cost is close (say within $50 for the set of tires) it's easier to go to a local dealer, but I've been able to consistently save 10 to 20% or more overall at Tire Rack versus local dealers. This can add up to big money especially for more expensive tires. I have a Mercedes SLK55 and Michelin tires for this car are quite expensive. STS is a big tire chain here in new Jersey and they quoted me uninstalled prices of $337.87 ($361.52 with sales tax) for the rears, and $253.89 ($271.66 with tax) for the fronts for Michelin Pilot Sport PS2's. Tire Rack's price is $324.38 and $236.38 delivered. Mounting, balancing and disposal of the old tires were identical at STS and Tire Rack's local installer, so that's a savings of $144.84. And on top of that Tire Rack is currently offering a $70 rebate if you purchase 4 Michelin tires, so that's a total savings of $214.84, easily worth the effort, at least to me. So far as warranty issues, I've had warranty claims with both Continental and Michelin tires purchased at Tire Rack, and it was a non issue...can be handled by any authorized dealer. It definitely pays to take a few minutes to comparison shop, no matter where you end up buying.

kiawah

My local dealers have matched the tirerack delivered prices, when I told them I had other quotes.

jeffyscott

Of course, legally, you are supposed to pay the sales tax if tire rack is not collecting it. In my state you are supposed to report it on your income tax forms, I believe technically they call it "use tax". So it may be that much of your savings was technically a result of tax fraud. :surprise:

For at least some rebates, it does not matter where you buy. Michelin does seem to often say something about having to buy from selected dealers. Tire rack is good for learning that rebates exist, I found out about one on Continentals there that I got, but you could buy tires anywhere for that one.

stickguy

I have had places somewhat adjust prices. Actually, 1 set I got at NTB (an approved installer) where they actually just ordered them for me at the TR price, but I did have to wait for delivery.

But one thing that tends to even things out, many stores give you free rotation and sometiems balance when you buy from them. With a TR purchase, I have to pay for that every 6 months. So, gotta factor that in.

imidazol97

One tire store mechanical repair chain gives free rotation with purchase, but free balancing requires purchase of their 10% lifetime road hazard replacement package.

e_man_online

Hi,

My Corolla tires are rotated:

DriverFront goes to DriverRear and viceversa
and
PassengerFront goes to PassengerRear and viceversa

Therefore tires always spin in the same direction.

Other car's tires are rotated in a crossed (X) pattern, which end up with the tires spinning in the opposite direction. I've heard that if certain tires--which are meant to be rotated like my Corolla's--are rotated in a crossed (X) pattern, spinning in the opposite direction may debilitate and break down the tire structure. Is this true?

Thanks in advance,

Richard

kiawah

Go to the www.tirerack.com website. They have an area where the different rotation patterns are discussed.

jeffyscott

I don't think the issue is breaking down the tire structure, it is just that some tires have a tread pattern that is directional.

okko1

no

johnxyz

Hey guys,

Just picked up an '02 Audi A6 that hasn't been driven in at least 4 yrs - I had to have the car flatbedded to my house. Close to brand new Toyo Proxys are mounted on BBS rims but 3 of the 4 will not hold air. If I have the tires remounted and balanced, will that result in the tires holding air? I do not see any cracks or dry rot.

Thanks for any advice you can provide.

jeffyscott

If they are the original tires they are 8 years old and should probably be replaced. But either way, the leaking could be due to oxidation that can be cleaned off when tires are taken off.

colin_l

Cracks and dry rot are pretty obvious so if you're not seeing that, I would try replacing all 4 valve stems.

However, I would be concerned about flat spots on those tires. They might never roll naturally again.

johnxyz

Thanks guys - maybe I'll see about having them remounted. So ask the tire shop to clean the lip of the tires and use new valve stems? Thanks again

capriracer

If the car has sat in the same position for 4 years, then the tires are permanently flatspotted. You will always have a vibration and you will never get rid of it until you replace the tires.

Might as well do it now!

jeffyscott

ask the tire shop to clean the lip of the tires

of the wheel, not the tire

colin_l

I buy from the TireRack and I've found it is best to shop early and watch for promotions, sales and closeouts. Even at their everyday prices, however, they should be cheaper than buying from local stores even when you add in shipping.

Mr_Shiftright

Also have them check the date stamps on the tires. If they are 8 years old, you might consider cleaning the rims and replacing valve stems, but only for a short time as you shop around for newer tires. For local trips you are probably okay, but high speed summer driving is no place for tires entering retirement age.

If I were you, I'd get the car running and drive it around a bit to see if its going to hang together, before I put new shoes on an older Audi of unknown qualities.

johnxyz

Thanks for the replies - Mr. S/R is right. 3 of the 4 Audi BBS 17" rims were bent - into the dumpster they go (after I had just spent 3-4 hours cleaning them off the car). The Toyo Proxes 4 tires were just ok - 2 were like new but the owner ran them low so they were worn on the very edges. I'm buying a set of used 16" Audi rims - less likely to get bent and tires are slightly cheaper along with some lightly used Michelins- (odd Euro size - 215/55/16 - MB std size?) $200 for the Audi rims and another $100 for 4 used but nice tires MXM Pilots - he gave me $100 credit for 2 of the Toyos ( threw the other 2 away - filled with Fix-a-Flat and worn unevely) and the 4 BBS rims - which he threw right into the dumpster. Those rims looked really nice - classic BBS basket weave - what a shame.

I won't even begin to talk about all the engine seals and rear diff seals that are leaking and need replacement on this 2.7T A6. The guy absolutely did no maintenance on this (what once was) a really nice car.

I'm going to get it going and see about getting the TB changed and new seals installed by a mechanic on the side; or, maybe just drive it for a bit and trade it after I detail it - I did pick it up cheap.

Question - all these expensive 17", 18", 19" and 20" rims with low aspect tires must get bent all the time - incredible considering the cost of these. Particularly here in the Northeast where the roads are terrible. Do guys just keep buying replacements? 15" to 16" appear to be a no brainer.

kyfdx

Better check any 16" wheels to make sure they fit over the brakes..

The 2.7T models may have bigger brakes to handle the increased speed/power... and, may require 17" wheels...

We've been driving with 17" rims for the last 7 years... and, no problems... My latest buy has 18" rims..

stickguy

there are some places that can fix bent rims. There are limits, but they can usually handle the normal stuff you find still running around on a car.

cheaper than a new one!

johnxyz

Good point but I believe 16" were standard equip and 17" were options. I think the big brake packages offered by Audi came on the R versions, 4.2 and Allroads. Someone here please confirm. 00-04 A6 2.7T just had one brake size? Thanks

johnxyz

Some say you can never get the rims round again. Anyhow I would have had to dismounted the tires and shipped the 3 rims to some vendor in the back of R&T or C&D. Fee plus shipping for 3 wheels - too much. Hated seeing those BBS's going off to be melted down as scrap....

jeffyscott

I won't even begin to talk about all the engine seals and rear diff seals that are leaking and need replacement... The guy absolutely did no maintenance

What maintenance is there to do that would have anything to do with leaking seals?

shark715

Leaving used oil in an engine for that long can definitely result in seal deterioration.

dawizard

Hello,

I am a nOOb when it comes to cars. Just recently during a service I learnt my car tires were in 'dangerous' state with treads of front 1/32, 1/32 and back 2/32, 3/32.

Now I did a little homework and figured newer tires have a tread about 10/32 or 11/32 so I have the following questions:

a. How bad is the condition of the tires - Do I need to get them replaced yesterday or can it hold off a week or so

b. Based on looking around, I can either get Michelin Radial X in a couple of days OR I can wait a week and do a special order and get Michelin Primacy (which are pricey) but I really don't know which ones to go for. Is Radial X considered a decent type or should I spend a little extra and go with the Primacy or other recommendations?

Any recommendations on good tires- I live in a snowy region, drive a camry and don't do lots of freeway drives but only once in a while (a couple of times a month tops)

c. Do all 4 need to be replaced in this condition?

Any suggestions, ideas are much appreciated, thanks!

stickguy

well, the normal inspection failure point (basically when they have hit the wear bars) is about 3/32. So yeah, they are shot. 1/32 is basically bald.

I would not recommend any long drives, and would be concerned a bit on wet roads, but a few more days probably (but no guarantees!) won't kill you. I just would not push it too far.

and you certainly should replace all 4 in that condition. And of course, get your alignment checked.

For your usage, any of the michelins should be fine. Is the radial X a costco only model? I know they had a model with their own name, but not sure which tire it was.

There are plenty of other options that will cost less money. You can check tirerack.com for options and reviews. Consumers reports also tested AS tires earlier this year.

I put BFG Advantage T/As (from BJs) on my Acura TL, and so far they have been excellent. And were a good price.

dawizard

Thanks a lot for taking the time to reply stickguy!

I don't have any freeway drives, just a few miles to work and within the city for now

Radial X is at Sams, the only reason I mentioned those were because those are available right now with them. I have a trip coming up over the weekend and was debating either holding off (placing a special order for one of the other tires) and renting a car for the weekend OR going with Radial X and go for my trip.

Sams does have BFG T/A and Slalom but I read some reviews on the Michelin Radial and it sounded pretty decent in general. Radials are about 95$, T/A's around 75$ and Primacy are $118-$150. I don't mind paying for the radials but just not sure if I should go up to Primacy type higher end tires or not and if it is significantly different for my purpose.

stickguy

the radial x is a good tire. for your needs, I really don't see any reason to spend the extra on the primacy. If I were in your place, I would probably just put the X on, and take the trip.

you will be amazed by how much of a difference the new tires will make, especially wet grip.

altair4

If you are going any distance at all on this weekend trip, get the Radial X tires now. It would be unsafe and unpleasant should you have more than one tire fail while travelling. By the way, given that you are a self-described noob, I'd strongly suggest that you check the condition of your spare tire - make sure that it is inflated to it's proper pressure (from your vehicle's owner's manual). Many people forget that the spare loses a bit of air every month and if/when they need it, it's dangerously underinflated.

dawizard

I've been looking for a set of 4 new tires and the choices I am seeing right now are (not including the michelin $70 discount)

1. Michelin Weatherwise II - $550 with taxes (Sears)
2. Michelin Primacy - $560 with taxes (Sears)
3. Michelin Radial X DT - $470 with taxes (Sams)

I live in a snowy region, this is for a camry, I don't quite care about "sporty" features, though I tend to drive a little rough once in a while. Don't do long distance drives, maybe once or twice a month, mostly inner city driving.

Any suggestions are much appreciated!! Thanks in advance!

dawizard

thanks for the word of caution altair...I am a pretty safe driver so figured I'll get the tires replaced before I make the trip!

Could you take a look at the tire choices I have and comment if you know about these tires? I have the option of getting any of these prior to my trip.

altair4

I'm guessing that you aren't running separate summer and winter tires, right? If that is correct, stay away from the Primacy. Michelin's website shows that as a summer tire and you mentioned you live in a snowy area. If you aren't going to change over tires, then forget these.

To me, the other two the Weatherwise or the Radial X DT, look like the way to go. Long life, Michelin build quality, all-season design. No one ever will say you made a mistake buying Michelin. They make a good tire and either of these will probably serve you well. I'd go with which ones you can get put on the car before your trip. They look comparable to each other, to me. Go with whatever is the better deal, which looks like the tires from Sams.

YMMV, not responsible for any misadventures, poor tire wear, etc! Good luck! I think you'll enjoy the feel from having new tires on the car.

dawizard

Hey altair,

You are correct, I am not running separate tires. Thanks for your feedback about Primacy, I was thinking those were the good high end but from the sounds of it they won't do much good in winters.

I am torn between Weatherwise and Radial X DT. I don't mind paying the extra $$ as long as I am getting a better quality. But if they are pretty much the same kinds then I'd lean towards Radials. I was reading about weatherwise and noticed that it got good reviews for handling in Snow and overall performance as well.

Both have about the same mile-warranty so it pretty much comes down to which one is worth the $.

Any other thoughts on these 2 that might help me make up my mind?

Thanks again for taking the time to respond, I really appreciate it!

imidazol97

I would check into the Harmony at an actual Michelin dealer where they can do road force balancing and I would check the Destiny which is Michelin sold at Discount Tires as their brand. I believe some Discount Tires stores do road force balancing.

I found my Michelin seller which is a large chain in the immediate area was willing to price match on identical tires, but they wouldn't match Sear's different tire under a different name. I don't recall about Discount Tire's policy.

Most places are wanting to sell tires. And I believe Michelin has had a $70 rebate for 4 tires and I think one chain has another add on rebate from that.

Might be worth some phone calls. I personally like to show up at the store with my suede covered checkbook sticking out of my shirt pocket, hinting I'm not going to use credit card and cost them a service fee.

The WEatherwise II has 10/32 tread depth. The other two have 11/32 each. I learned that when I was cross-shopping for my Harmony tires.

I personally never trust Sears. This is just another example.

Michelin's site page. SEarch under "Find by Name." Then choose "Specs" to see the depth and ratings for each tire size for that particular line.

http://www.michelinman.com/tire-selector/tire-search/

altair4

Well, according to Michelin's website, they are both 80,000 mile tires, with some sort of treadwear warranty. I really don't think you can go wrong with either tire. Watch your alignment and rotate on schedule, and you'll be fine either way.

I've never bought tires from either vendor, prederring to deal with smaller, locally owned shops, but I know lots of people buy tires at Sam's.

Good luck.

altair4

Not to denigrate the idea of road force balancing, but these tires are going on a Toyota Camry that's most city driven. Is he really going to feel a difference?

dawizard

I did look into Harmony as well, it is priced about 520$ with everything (no 70$ rebate available at this location).

But I am reading around and am not seeing a strong review regarding handling in Snow.

I am not looking for snow-only tires but would atleast want it to work well in those conditions.

I am pretty much down to picking between Weatherwise II and Harmony now...I could also wait a bit if Radial X is Highly recommended. Any other thoughts to help me decide?

Thanks for chiming in guys!

imidazol97

I'm in Western Ohio. We get snow. When I chose the set of Harmony tires for my first leSabre, it was replacing X-Ones, which had a tread compound to make them especially sticky on ice. It was noticeable that the tread compound worked on the X-Ones. I felt the Harmonys were almost as good on packed slick snow and ice. When I took the leSabre out in the first heavy snow, the Harmonys gripped extremely well.

I later put Harmonys on my 03 leSabre replacing the Symmetrys that came on it standard due to the 16 inch wheels and Celebration package. I have a Cobalt with Hankook tires (made in China) and I checked depth and satisafaction with them. I would put Harmony's on it in a flash at the least problem.

But I suspect that is due to the tread design and the DEPTH of the tread. It was my personal opinion that the Sears tire had a more closed design with more tread area contacting the road, leaving less open area for water handling and snow grip between the rubber parts. That extra coverage of rubber area wise compensated for smaller depth and gave the same treadwear rating. The Agility tires were very similar in open tread design to the Harmony.

I looked for the rebate and it may have expired in early August. Try price shopping with various stores that sell Harmony and see if you preferred store will honor it. Some say stores will meet TireRack's price.

Compare openness of tread:
WeatherwiseII


Harmony


Destiny


X-radial

dawizard

hey imidazol

thanks for the detailed description and sharing your experience of using harmony in the snow!!

I did remember something that I am planning on moving in the next year or so and don't want to lose the "free lifetime balance + rotating" that the bigger stores offer. I am not sure if that is important enough that I stick with the big shops so when I move to a different city, I still have access to those stores? If they are going to charge me 20$ each time for this and I'll probably be getting it done about 10-15 times, maybe worth it to go for a bigger store?

That kind of narrows down my options to either Sams Club (Radial X) or Sears (Weatherwise). I know I've been flip flopping on my choices but if I didn't have the urgency to get it replaced I would've done a special order in these locations or ordered online.

So between Radial X and Weatherwise II, do you have any experience or heard from anyone about their quality? Going with Radial X is about 80-100$ cheaper overall but the cost is not my highest priority. Getting good tires for my situation is a priority.

Thanks again for your feedback everyone!

imidazol97

>Sams Club (Radial X)

Not every community has a nearby Sams Club.

I believe Walmart can order in any tire for you. Walmarts and their service are everywhere. Walmart does carry the Symmetry by Michelin. It's a luxury tire tread with lots of small pieces that lead to a quieter ride.

Personally I wouldn't buy a dead cat from Sears Auto Centers. You may have one near you that you feel is good, but the next one down the road may not operate that well.

Sears was doing the rotation and balance for my X-Ones after NTB closed all stores in my area. Sears inherited the lifetime because they owned NTB. After hot rodding the nuts on and off the studs many times, they were doing the new struts I had bought through them and a nut jammed on the stud. They replaced the stud which is what they should have done. They didn't put the air connections on the rear struts correctly and when I loaded the trunk with mulch, the air leveling system on the rear blew off the hoses. They fixed that.

But later they jammed a nut they had cross-threaded earlier and hot-rodded on with their air guns. It was partly on. They told me I had to pay for their jammed nut and damaged stud problem. I told them to put the nut tight again and I drove home. They said they would do so. But I drove home on 4 studs.

They did NOT tighten the nut because they were afraid they'd twist the stud off. I've been on a crusade against their minute oil change quality mechanics since them. The local store has an almost empty parking lot for the auto service. I hope I've helped direct some people to a better store and save other people trouble.

The threads should have been cleaned occasionally and driving the nuts on fast tends to build up heat and tighten them worse with any grit present. Cross-threading them does even more damage, which is what the previous Sears rotation caused.

dawizard

hrmmm your comment had me wondering about the Sears service.

I like the fact they have a somewhat better quality tire but now I am a little wary of their service. Online reviews are not very gentle either. Sams doesn't seem to have as much negative chatter online for their Auto-service.