Are gas prices fueling your pain?

texases

Big warning sign when I'm negotiating - they say "We just want to be fair." Fair is a four letter word, really. It's usually just in the eye of the beholder. And any tax change will be judged fair by those with a reduction, unfair by those with an increase. Never underestimate the ability of people to rationalize their current income as barely sufficient.

Mr_Shiftright

LOL! I was just having this debate today with a tax accountant!! I wanted to know if I owned a junkyard if I could deduct my dog as a security cost. (it was a picnic discussion---I don't really own a junkyard).

gagrice

You could also use your dog to pull you around town. Saw a guy today hauling down the sidewalk on a skateboard with his dog pulling him. I wonder if you could write off the mileage or the dog food?

snakeweasel

I'm fairly certain that anyone who owns a small business that's not located at his residence can claim mileage to and from his business.

Nope thats commuting and not deductible. Now if you had a home office worked there and then drove to that company location you could argue for the deduction.

snakeweasel

Its not the size of the vehicle but a reasonable use. Most dentist offices do not need a vehicle to do business. Most auditors would not accept the need to transport dentures as a need since they are usually shipped directly to the dentist office.

Then there is the percentage of business use. If you only use it once in a while for business then you can only take either mileage (usually best option) or actual expenses related to business use (a paperwork nightmare). there are also different rules if business use of the car is less than 50%.

snakeweasel

If the dog stayed there I would argue that the dog and the cost of its upkeep could be deducted as a security measure.

Mr_Shiftright

That's what I thought.

I think if you hooked up a dog sled to a cart (or a disabled Segway? Like a chariot--LOL!) in order to commute to work it would be totally great but I betcha the animal rights people would be all over you, big time.

I've been on dogsleds...with a professional driver and really good dogs, its amazing the amount of weight they can haul....two people PLUS musher + gear + sled, through deep snow and much faster than you could run.

I think a trip to the pound to pick out the biggest meanest dogs, and hitching them up to one of those bicycle baby-carriers with the canvas covers, and you're all set, rain or shine.

And the dogs seem to like it.

Would you have to stop every time one of the dogs....you know....

snakeweasel

I've been on dogsleds...with a professional driver and really good dogs, its amazing the amount of weight they can haul....two people PLUS musher + gear + sled, through deep snow and much faster than you could run.

If you go up to Alaska, the Yukon, the NW territories and Inuit some of the explotes of some of those dogteams and mushers are legendary. They still talk of the serum run back in the (I think) 20's.

Mr_Shiftright

Maybe we're onto something --- PET POWER -- not only are Americans getting fat, so are their dogs... :P

snakeweasel

Not my dog, she has some great muscle tone on her and she is strong.

jkinzel

The Iditarod.

http://www.iditarod.com/learn/history.html

gagrice

Would you have to stop every time one of the dogs....you know..

Train them to do their business on the City Hall Lawn. Or any government agency would be fine.

If you are going to have a dog it seems like a logical use of that willingness to please, by pulling you around town. Train them to lay at your feet while at work. Then pull you back home. What a way to beat 4 buck gas.

dave8697

Gas fell in IN since the 500 race. It was 3.55 then and today hit 3.16. $4 may require a gulf hurricane or some rocket lobbing in the Israel area. The news said we were 4th in the US, behind Hi. a few days ago. Don't compare US to UK. They pay for the entire country's medical and welfare coverage in their gas tax. Our gas $ goes to commodities traders, taxes to pay for the war, stock dividends, and Oil Co. execs pay. All such useful things!!!

What I do at $3+ a gallon: keep air filter clean and 36 psi air in tires. A shot of injector cleaner once in a while, empty the trunk, plugs and wires every 85k miles. I even tried Slick 50 in my last oil change and may have added up to 1 mpg.

I also traded in a 22 mpg car for a 26 mpg truck as a spare for occasional trips. The truck is 13 years newer though, so excise taxes and sales taxes eat up the gas savings this year and next.

The roads were emptier when gas was $3.55 last week. People were probably combining trips and less just driving around.

stever

When I lived in Anchorage, I used to borrow the standard poodle across the street to skijor behind and
a few times I went rollerblading behind him, but the road rash fears got me to rethink that.

There's a famous statue of one of the serum run dogs in Central Park (Balto) right near the Children's Zoo.

In case you missed it, here's a twist on the blood for oil story :

Red Cross Offering Gas For Blood

tpe

Its not the size of the vehicle but a reasonable use

Well then we are in agreement. If you can justify a vehicle as a business expense then the tax code makes it attractive to consider one that weighs 6,000+ lbs. That was pretty much the only point I was trying to make. However I do think that Congress is considering lowering the depreciation from $100k to $25k.

In terms of ridiculousnous it is right up there with getting big CAFE credits for manufacturing an E85 vehicle that will probably never see E85 in its tank.

snakeweasel

IIRC its not 6,000+ pound but vehicles classified as trucks. The depreciation rate is the same but the important thing is that there are caps to the amount of depreciation you can take. Trucks have a higher depreciation cap. If you crunch the numbers it usually doesn't make much sense as the extra costs for many of these things is greater than the tax benefits.

However I do think that Congress is considering lowering the depreciation from $100k to $25k.

I think that this is the section 179 that they are talking about.

kernick

you: The truck is 13 years newer though, so excise taxes and sales taxes eat up the gas savings this year and next.

me: here's something the local and state govvernments could do to promote fuel efficiency - greatly reduce or eliminate the taxes on anyone either 1) getting a new vehicle better than the CAFE average, or 2) trading in a model for one that's (say) 20+% in mpg.
But the local governments wouldn't do that because they'd say they can't afford it. Maybe they can stop promising pensions and life-long health benefits to employees, to match what the rest of the world has - SS and their 401K. And please don't go into how they're underpaid. Administrators and cops make about 2-4 times what the average person does around here.

rorr

"There's a famous statue of one of the serum run dogs in Central Park (Balto) right near the Children's Zoo."

What strange karma.

Yesterday afternoon, my 7 year-old brought home a book from the library about Togo, the lead dog of the team who traveled (by far) the longest and most dangerous legs of the 1925 serum run. Balto got all the press because he was the lead dog of the final team back into Nome.

I read the story to them last night, now I come in here and you guys are talking about the '25 serum run. :surprise:

jkinzel

The reason (a valid assumption on my part) that Government, local to Federal, makes such a superficial attempt at getting people to conserve fuel is that they really don’t want you too. If everyone in a given State reduced their annual consumption of fuel by 50%, you have effectively reduced the fuel tax revenue of all the effected government agencies by 50% and that could be financially devastating across the board.
If the truth be known, I believe all government agencies that rely on fuel taxes would like to see fuel efficiency decrease. Perhaps the reason Ethanol is the main focus as the "Alternative fuel".

gagrice

Could be why they give $100k accelerated depreciation on trucks that they know will use more fuel and pay more tax. Kind of a counter balance to all the hybrids sold that are not paying their fair share in gas tax. The manufacturers like it because they make more on a Tundra than a Prius.

I wonder when the dust settles just how much the hybrid tax credit actually cost the Feds? I know there is a lot of screaming because of AMT taking the credit. Those were cars sold that did not cost the government. Yet they looked like they were doing something.

The new CAFE bill is far from signed legislation. I imagine they have tried this before now. The current 27 MPG standard is nearly 30 years old. Been a lot of seats change in Congress and little done to encourage fuel saving.

Even if the populace were to cut back 10% in fuel usage it would send the Federal accountants into cardiac arrest. They need that tax money. They already spent it on stuff.

british_rover

If we didn't spend it on fuel we would spend it on something else. It is not like we are a nation of savers.

gagrice

Different tax goes into a different government pocket. Besides the tax on gas is much higher than on a TV or computer. It is also split between the Feds, States and County. It is all about balance.

The state likes it when you buy a $40k SUV instead of a $20k tin can car. Twice the sales tax. More gas tax and higher license fees.

There is NO motivation to promote higher mileage vehicles from a tax and spend perspective.

Mr_Shiftright

Sales tax on cars is the greatest scam ever! If a 1997 Honda is sold ten times in its life, the state gets 10 sales taxes on it!! This doesn't happen with used refrigerators, some of which are certainly worth the same as a 1997 Honda.

vonda

NOT E 85, just 10-15% ethanol in gasoline, supposedly. Do YOU have EPA mandated low vapor pressure summer blend in TX? I have a friend in San Antonio whose GM vehicle mileage tanks in the summer (16% drop) and GM has examined the vehicle and says it is not a vehicle problem---just the gas. I guess all stories have sides. I was surprised that so little fo the country has 10% ethanol blend.

stever

Did the story talk about the good citizens of Cleveland rescuing Balto and some other sled dogs that went on tour after the serum run? Put them in the zoo. When Balto died, they had him stuffed and put in the museum and and the visitors rubbed the fur off his tail over the years.

He got all the press, but Balto turned out to be a good lead dog even if he was just one of several in the relay.

I'm sure cars are cheaper to run even at $4 a gallon gas than a team of hungry Huskies.

euphonium

Try looking at the S.T. this way. In the case of selling the Honda ten times - it's not a tax on the Honda, it's a tax on the Transaction based on the value of the Honda at the point of sale.

In WA, some counties charge a S.T. of 9.9% while others charge as low as 7.7%. Point of Sale, not payers residence determines the rate.

tpe

Even if the populace were to cut back 10% in fuel usage it would send the Federal accountants into cardiac arrest

Cutting back 10% is not likely to happen but if it did you'd only need to raise the gas tax by 5 cents per gallon to offset this. From the consumer's perspective this additional cost per gallon would more than be offset by the savings derived from buying 10% less fuel. Even if everyone burned half as much gas the tax would only have to go up ~50 cents per gallon. From an individual's financial perspective is it better to burn 1000 gallons of $3 fuel or 500 gallons of $3.50 fuel?

lemko

But the era of 20-25% of the single people in the USA driving an SUV, that is on it's way out.

Funny. A single lady from work just traded her very well-used 1984 Plymouth Voyager minivan for a new Dodge Durango.

iluvmysephia1

new Durango, now that's trading up, in weight and price, eh?

The stocks took a tumble yesterday on fears of the "possibility of rising interest rates."

Oh, oh, another fear-based system that runs on emotion instead of logic. Wall Street is a funny and ill-defined way of doing business.

Oil companies and traders - you might want to start raising ghastly prices now while you can - we're about to sell off our stocks in WalMart and Chevron and you'll need some extra buffering to weather the storm. :surprise:

guss

If she was even a half decent negotiator I am sure she got a pretty good deal on the Durango.

Some people still think gas will go back down to $2 a gallon. So if you "need" a big SUV , now is the time buy.

I think we are about where it will average for the next few years, $3 a gallon.I have not run the numbers but with rebates and discounts you maybe able to offset the savings of a gas sippeer if gas were to remain at current prices.

But, I just am not that sure they will not get to $4, so I am looking at compacts to one day replace my 20 mpg vehicle.

stever

Grading the fuel-saving technologies of the future

The story mentions that cars are only on the road about 5 percent of the time but doesn't offer car sharing as an option.

chuckhoy

The story mentions that cars are only on the road about 5 percent of the time but doesn't offer car sharing as an option.

That would mean that people would have to let go of the idea that you "own" a car. I think it would be difficult to get people to buy into a system where car-sharing is a form of public transportation. That would mean people would still have to get to some sort of centralized (how centralized is a matter of debate) location to get a car to drive to another centralized location to drop it off and then get to where you are going. I would think Segways (or something similiar) would have to be involved as a way to get to/from the central repositiory of cars. You would still have about the same number of cars on the road because everybody would need to get to where they were going. Hmmm.... But the cars could be smaller and more efficient or electric because most of the time it is 1 or 2 people in a car at any one time. You could "reserve" bigger vehicles for the instances where you need one. Could help facilitate car-pooling as well.

I think the idea has some merit. It would be a logistical nightmare, though.

Mr_Shiftright

I'm trying to price out an urban dog sled here for a 5 mile commute to work.

I know the price of a Schwinn bike package carrier (the sled) but I wonder what 6 big dogs would cost me at the Humane Society?

Do they sell dog sled harnesses at Home Depot???

Visiting Host

iluvmysephia1

have you tried www.dogsledsforless.com yet?

I don't know if such a beast exists but one could always pop it in the engine, eh?

One of my younger sisters actually does this dogsled thing for fun(and competition, although I don't know how many real races she's participated in)and currently owns about 9 Husky/Malamute/what-have-you-for-powerful-canine combustion dogs. Ya gotta love the sheer natural propulsion of it all, huh?

stever

Hmmm, not bad - the share-a-clunker bike programs only seem to last a year or so in most places. Share a Seqway could have possibilities. Sharing street legal "golf cars" could be even better if you could beyond liability concerns and keep them off the collector streets and highways.

rorr

"Hmmm, not bad - the share-a-clunker bike programs only seem to last a year or so in most places."

We had a "yellow bike" program around the UT campus a year or so ago....bikes seem to disappear pretty fast. The last time I saw one, it was about 30' up in a tree behind a fraternity house....

Lord knows what would happen to community segways/golf carts.... :surprise:

stever

Yep, you'd have to Flex or Zipcar them and make people buy into the program.

The logical place to park one for me is 2 miles away, which is often my final destination anyway.

But it could work - I'm off right now to go next door and borrow the neighbor's riding mower. A golf car isn't too much of a step up. :shades:

kernick

The story mentions that cars are only on the road about 5 percent of the time but doesn't offer car sharing as an option.

me: well I see a similar problem with sharing a car as I do public transportation - questionable hygiene of some. I really could do without the colds and flus too. But I think it is agreat idea for others!

gagrice

I shared vehicles at work the last 26 years. It was a constant battle between the smokers and non smokers. The sloppy ones and the neat folks. I would come back to work after 3 weeks off and the truck would be full of empty coffee cups, candy wrappers and work materials. The ashtray full of cigarette butts.

No thank you on sharing a vehicle with anyone except my wife.

Same goes for riding the bus. I do not care to expose myself to the dregs of society to enhance my carbon credit card.

msindallas

You guys are focussing too much on dogs - it is speciological discrimination. A horse is a good alternative. You need only one instead of a few, and you need not bother with the sled (lower maintenance). I think horses are safer, too. Cops in several cities use them actually, for their patrols. Instead of garages, we use stables....

gagrice

You priced a bail of hay lately? Makes $4 gas seem cheap.

iluvmysephia1

in time here on this thread? Horses and dogsleds instead of cars, trucks and SUV's? Preposterous!

Didn't you know it would come to this eventually! Of course you did.

I'm in sunny SE Arizona and I can almost see the smile on James West's face as he pulls out his six-shooter and rides away towards another conquest.

gagrice

I thought it was Tex Ritter that put Wilcox on the map.

How's gas prices? I will be making a quick trip to NM in a couple weeks. I plan to rent a new Acadia to see what kind of mileage they get on the open road.

msindallas

But, but we can work on that. We can make our own hay while the sun shines (have a low population density/more farm land compared to the rest of the world) and not import it from Canada or the ME. I think the equivalent fat free diet dogfood would be more expensive.

msindallas

OK, lets think forward... we are not getting new refineries, and we are not going to reduce consumption. We have already established that. How about alternative fuels? I know people are researching, but here's one more idea -

Use gunpowder suspended in vegetable oil as fuel. Mix it with air as tiny droplets and have a hammer tap it for a controlled explosion. The explosion turns the crank shaft in an engine that powers the car. Did they already try this?

blufz1

You'll get more engine knock with that.

gagrice

The question is how much bang for your BUCK?

snakeweasel

Technically in most states you need to collect (or pay) state sales tax on anything sold. The issue that its not enforced on anything but cars is because due to the licensing requirements for a car makes it easy to follow a sale. You sell your ten year old refrigerator the government doesn't know about it.

snakeweasel

In WA, some counties charge a S.T. of 9.9% while others charge as low as 7.7%. Point of Sale, not payers residence determines the rate.

Are you sure? Here in Illinois its the state of residence that determines your sales tax rate. Of course in most cases this is not realistic but in other cases, such as a car purchase, that can be done. I know the City of Chicago once was going after those who bought big ticket items outside the city for that extra sales tax.

snakeweasel

I think the idea has some merit. It would be a logistical nightmare, though.

I don't know this seems to work, I see their cars on the road often enough.

http://www.igocars.org/