That is my brother in law's position. He works for the water district. He even thinks the home purifiers are a waste of money. At least for the homes his district serves. Not all water from the tap is great to drink.
Most of our drinking water comes out of the refrigerator door. Nice and cold and it has to go through a filter. But since we get our water from Lake Michigan we rarely replace that filter.
I know someone in downstate IL that has his own well. He gets some of the sweetist water you have ever tasted.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
"No it has gone up in value or no one would have paid the $50K more for the house..."
Of course they would. That's what drives speculation. The house hasn't gone up in value one cent. The supposed $50,000 increase in "value" is just a psycho-neural bubble in people's heads, no more real than you or I dreaming of a two-headed giraffe.
If I detail your car is it worth $10,000 more? Of course not, it just looks better to you or to a new buyer.
If you run out of gas in Death Valley, then you know the value of gas vs. the price of gas. :P
for your information a crossover is a vehicle that is designed to be a cross between a car and a SUV. A crossover.
And that you feel like they are a "stupid class of vehicle" begs the question: why do you feel that way? Did I read and understand your comment to mean that you feel that they are wasteful as far as fuel economy goes? If so, your thoughts on that matter are incorrect. They can be designed to be fairly(not the best that can be purchased mind you)fuel-efficient. An example of a "crossover" vehicle is a Scion xA or a Kia Rio5. Both get around 32-35mpg and that by todays standards is not bad for fuel effieciency.
Yep, there is a bit of topic drift in here (and it tends to get worse on the weekends).
I have friends who like their Echo but they don't drive the 401 every day, and you probably avoid it if you can as well when you travel west. That road is a bit unnerving even in my big minivan. And are you getting 50 miles per Imperial or "US" gallon?
The thing is if it didn't go up in value then you wouldn't get the extra price. If someone is willing to pay that price then it must have that value at the very least to them. Do not confuse value with the sum total of the parts, sometimes its greater sometimes its less.
The supposed $50,000 increase in "value" is just a psycho-neural bubble in people's heads
But thats all value is. Thats why the value of something changes over time and circumstances and is different among different people.
If I detail your car is it worth $10,000 more?
That is an argument in the absurd. But if you do detail it does it go up in value? Most likely yes as nice clean used cars sell for more than dingy dirty ones. Did it go up the same amount as the materials you use and the value of your time in doing the detail? Most likely not.
its a fact that if the house can be sold for that $50K more than the value of it has increased by $50K.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I can tell you one thing. If your house sells for $50k more than you paid for it, the tax assessor considers that the new valuation and you are taxed accordingly. At least in CA.
Nope it's just speculation. Not making a distinction between value and price is what causes market collapses. An antique Barbie doll has no value. It is just plastic crap. A silver coin with Julius Caesar's head on it is a work of art, made of pure silver. And yet the Barbie doll is worth ten times the price of the coin. Interesting, huh?
A gallon of gas is very hard to evaluate because a gallon of gas is all about potential. We can't hoard it or easily barter for it or trade it for something. It's really all out of our hands when it comes to setting price. We have no way to know if the price is legitimate, whereas with the Barbie doll or coin, we do.
It seems that gas is more like bread to us than a commodity we can take or leave.
Not making a distinction between value and price is what causes market collapses.
Nope what causes markets to collapse are changes in values. What causes those changes are numerous. A typical market crash can be done when values are driven up by a momentary spike in demand. That increase in prices creates a push in the supply. However the increase in supply lags behind the spike in demand and creates a glut in the market.
There are other reasons why markets crash but we don't need to go into them.
Just remember that if the value isn't there you will never get the price. As an example, I could price my house at a million dollars, but since that is not its true value no one would even entertain the prospect of buying my house for that much. Once the price is low enough to equal the value to at least one person the house will sell and that will be the value of the house.
If its $50k more than what I paid for it without doing anything so be it. It is still the value of the house.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
If tomorrow, everyone woke up and said snakeweasel's house is worthless, it would be worthless.
So it is merely mental aberration that gives it value, which is why it isn't really value, it's price. No mental process can increase the value of an object, it can only influence the price.
Value requires blood sweat and tears in other words.
A gallon of gas has value because of everyone's hands-on talent to make it. The price is the product of one oil company exec lifting up the phone.
Markets dictate that. If I had a house and put in a pool and the market dictated that that adds nothing to the value of the house it doesn't add value to the house. If the market dictates that the house goes up in value even though I did nothing to it then it goes up in value.
In fact, it's just an illusion.
No if someone is paying their hard earned money on it thats not an illusion.
If tomorrow, everyone woke up and said snakeweasel's house is worthless, it would be worthless.
Basically yes, if everyone determines that my house is worthless than it would be seeing that if everyone thinks its worthless no one will pay me for the house. Hence it will be worthless.
Value requires blood sweat and tears in other words.
Nope, value requires that someone is willing to pay that price for an object. Blood sweet and tears has no bearing on it.
A gallon of gas has value because of everyone's hands-on talent to make it.
A gallon of gas only has value because people are willing to pay money for that gallon of gas. Gas prices go up even though the "hands on talent" to make it stays the same. So using your argument that means that more people are doing more to that gallon of gas than there was 6 months ago. But thats not the case, the "talent" to make it doesn't increase but the price does.
The only thing that gives anything its value is what someone else is willing to give up for it, nothing more, nothing less.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Buy it and be glad I am not in Canada or the EU paying more for the same gallon of gas. Or 3.78 liters. I think it is headed back to $2 by fall. It bottomed out at about $2.25 last November here in CA.
Same reason that a hotel room costs 2-3 times as much on a busy weekend as it does on a Sunday night. Assuming the gas production is about the same throughout the year, the demand will go up prior to a Holiday weekend. Summer is the busy season so the price goes up.
I have a reservation for a hotel in Albuquerque this month. The charge for Friday and Saturday is 30% more than the other 4 nights. Same room and amenities.
Most businesses charge whatever the market will bear.
You must have been one of the lucky ones, mine was very well maintained but after too many engine problems, parts failing, premature rusting around the wheel wells, gas cap cover area, hood, exterior finish items falling off.. I sold it after 6 years & only 50,000 miles.
Take a look at the exteriors of some of the Big 3 cars...paint peeling, premature rusting in regions with winter etc (those of you who live in dry areas & no snow may have better luck.)
What's with (especially) GM & peeling paint year after year on the same models? Sunfire, Grand Am etc. Can't they get it right or at least improve? Chrysler has this problem too on some of their models like mini-vans, neons etc...Ford doesn't seem to be quite as bad.
If I needed another car now I would like to think there was a Big 3 auto that had a model I thought was worth the money, I like the new Ford a little from the outside..not sure of the name of the car. But these days a lot of the Japanese cars are made by people in the States or here in Canada I don't feel like I'm weakening our economies by buying them.
you mentioned that you think that gas will drop to only $2.00/gal by the fall? If gas was $2.25 last fall in CA then that's not such a bad price. But why do you think it will drop a buck and a half in CA by fall? Demand dropping?
And if you'll all notice gagrice said "$2.00/gal." Notice how he didn't say $1.85/gal? I have mentioned here on Edmunds many times before that I have noticed the oil companies lift prices up above $2.00/gal and not let them go lower than that. Watch and you'll see...it must be a certain profit comfort level they must have...a greed goal if you will.
I am of the school of thought that we will never again see ghastly fall below $2.00/gal for 87 no-lead. And yes, I know, never is a long, long time, for all of us.
Hey iluvmysephia1, Did you notice where I added I can be sarcastic? I know what it's suppose to mean. But it still makes as much sense as a screen door on a submarine. With all the choices in cars, trucks, suv's etc we need another class of vehicle..my answer is no...it's just a fad to sucker people out of their cash. They'll make anything they think people are dumb enough to buy. Kind of like the full size Half-tons fully decked out with all the chrome, side steps, four wheel drive, leather seats etc...these are suppose to be "work trucks" right? So what's with so many being sold with boxes on them so small you couldn't lay a sheet of plywood flat in them & how much do they cost? lol (remember the old saying about a fool & his money?....I see them all the time..one driver yapping on a cell phone..no signs of it being used for what trucks were intended to be used for..(tradesmen, construction etc)no dirt anywhere..what's driving this market isn't common sense, it's the opposite.
For those who are tradesmen or people who live in areas like mountainous areas or a few areas that get real winters then sure, I can see how these vehicles are needed...but you're a small minority.
My reasons for calling them a stupid class of vehicle are partly stated above. The main reason being they are TRUELY Required by so few in my opinion they are just another way to sucker people out of their cash..nothing more than an overly complex car with a few add ons with higher prices, more to go wrong, higher insurance rates just to name a few. The milage you mentioned may be not bad, but compared to what? A Yukon or Mid size, Civic, Corrolla? How much more room inside for instance how many more people will it leagally carry compared to a (just for example) Civic or Corrolla or for those that prefer a Big 3 model then the equivalant of the Civic or Corrolla?
Just out of curiousity, what would anyone living away from mountainous areas or northern Canada need one for? Potholes, crossing railroad tracks, rain, off roading, pulling a camper & if that's the main buyers why am I not seeing it?
For anyone wanting to buy one, go for it & enjoy..seriously have fun. But I just don't get why, except in the cases I stated.
For those of you who haven't figured it out yet, OPEC and their co-conspirators are running a price roller coaster scam.
They spike the price (yes, THEY control it, not the oft-blamed "traders" or "refinery shutdowns" or "high demand in China. For evidence of this, simply look at the latest price spike -- 2 months of gas price increases, all the while gasoline inventories INCREASED; a complete perversion of supply/demand economics). After the spike, they drop the price to placate that critical mass of people who otherwise would figure out the scam and do something to stop it. But they never drop the price quite back to where it was.
The next spike goes even higher, and the corresponding drop stops higher on the scale, too. On and on it goes.
I lived in CA when this routine began in 2003. Gas went from 1.30 to 2.00, then back to 1.50. Next spike in 2004 went to 2.70, then back to 1.80. In 2005 big oil had a field day with the hurricane -- spiked gas to 3.20, then let it drift down slowly to 2.25. Same story in 2006 with summer prices over 3, winter prices just above 2. Now in 2007, gas hit 3.50, so count on 2.50 as the next low.
So far, the U.S. economy has absorbed this price inflation amazingly well. Most drivers know that they're getting pimped, but can only shrug their shoulders and pay that extra $30 per week. After all, the entire transportation system of this country and all the infrastructure that supports it cater only to internal combustion engines. We can't change it overnight ... not even over a decade. Opec, et al., know this and take full advantage of it.
Credible polls show that gasoline would have to hit $4.25/gal. to get a mass reaction from consumers. At that point, most say that they'd cut back driving, try carpooling, buy smaller, more efficient cars, etc.
According to the gas price charts, we'll find out if that's true by this time next year.
to the administration's energy plan? You know - theaone that they say we the electorate have no business knowing who they consulted in meetings to create the plan. The one headed by VP Cheney. The man who is up to his eyeballs in oil.
Wow. They devised a plan where we are screwed and those heavily invested in oil are making a fortune. Holy smokes! What a coincidence!
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
So you can change price without changing value and/or you can devalue or value-add and thus change the price. They are interrelated but not the same IMO.
me: All items have value. The value of something can obviously change based on how much there is and what the demand is for it. (Remember the Clampetts never valued oil much; cursing it when they hit it while digging their root-cellar. ) The price is simply putting that value in terms of some units.
It wouldn't be very useful for OPEC to say the value of a barrel of oil is 70, without a price? Is that 70 Hershey bars? 70 oz of copper, or $70. Price, is the value defined in units-of-value.
So yes a house or a classic car can go up in value (as value is a function of demand, which is a psychological phenomenon), and the price is the value in some units. Fine art would be a good example of items that do not improve (they deteriorate if anything), have no function but yet go up in value. The value is simply related to how much someone wants something, not its usefulness or based on reason.
Good lord, has it gotten to the point that we're considering things like the xA and the Rio hatchback to be "crossovers"? :confuse: Aren't they just 4-door hatchbacks? Or "5-doors", if you will?
To me, a crossover is something like a Honda CR-V or Toyota RAV-4, where it's essentially a car-based wagon posing as an SUV.
I've been sticking religiously to 65 mph or under, coasting down hills and using only modest acceleration....last fill up I busted 40 mpg for the first time, and 39.4 the fill up before that.
This is mostly highway driving and paying very close attention to what I'm doing.
This compares to my last 3 months calculated average of 34.5.
So that's the best I can do. I feel like I'm being sedated, but I'm going to keep this up for a little while longer and see if practice makes perfect.
Other people may have a mass transport or car pool option. Or you may choose to live closer to your job when you need a different housing situation.
Or if you are in the Alaska bush, where heating oil/gas runs $8 or more a gallon currently, you idle your snowgo and go back to heating with wood (assuming you can get gas for the chain saw and enough gas to haul the logs back to town). Many of the ~100,000 villagers in Alaska are becoming energy refugees and moving to the cities - or east Texas. (link - may be subscription only)
Lots of midwest towns in the states seem to be dying (though not from energy costs - yet). Of course the ethanol boom is going to save them.
Hi Steve, no problem..I'm enjoying the conversations & some topics I've been reading..some educational, others funny.
I don't live in Toronto anymore..living on the East Coast now but I have put many a mile on the 401 along with the DVP, 427 etc over the years & Boston & N.Y as well visiting relatives.
My tanks holds 45 Litres or 9.9 Imperial gal or 11.9 US gal by the way. Gas which is selling for $1.13.9 a litre or aprox. $5.17 an Imperial gal (our gas is regulated by the Province & prices can only change on the 15th & last day of the month so we don't see the daily fluctuations)
I'm did the calculations recently & I'm getting 48.47 miles per imperial gallon combined city/highway.
a crossover, however we think it should look, does look better to you than a pick-em-up truck, doesn't it?
An example of a crossover would be a Mazda5, part SUV and part-car. I used the example of the Kia Rio5 because to me it's a car and morphing away from the traditional SUV look. Maybe it's not the best example. Look at a 2004-2006 Scion xA for a sec. Do you see a certain semblance of a SUV and also a car? No, they're good examples..part car and part SUV. 4 doors required to be a crossover.
A Nissan Murano, an SUV or a crossover? To me it's a crossover. A Ford Exploder is a true SUV.
Even my recent trade-in, a 2001 Kia Sportage 4X4, that's a SUV. Smaller version of the Exploder from Ford. But the new or old Sportage is not a crossover. The new Sportage does not have the truck-based "ladder" style frame that made the 1995-2002 Kia Sportage's true SUV's. The new Kia Sportage is car-based yet it's body design defines it as a SUV because it's not trying to morph back in to a car look, it looks like a body on frame SUV, but it's pinned together like a car.
roy32, you're preaching to the choir, though, on the American craze in pickup trucks. I've seen so many pickup trucks lately here in Arizona, as well as the other Midwest states I've lived in and my home state of Washington, that I can't but think that these are patriotically-drenched individuals that equate their truck to power and advantage. The American way. Oh, and power means bowing to big 'ole oil prices if you stand to gain and profit from those prices. Wonder who I might be thinking of here?
Hi gagrice, one thing to keep in mind that your gallon is 3.78 litres ours is 4.54 The difference is .833 Imperial gallon to one U.S. gallon...a difference of .76 litres per gallon..so if I were to use your gallon then the price would be roughly $4.41 a U.S. gallon. Also I'm not sure what the Canadian $ closed at yesterday (Friday) but while at my bank this week I asked & our $ was over .94cents to the U.S. dollar which would convert to aprox. $4.14 here.
Hard to believe that not that long ago our $ was trading around 62 cents for a U.S. $.
Some Economists are saying our $ will be on par with yours before long. Will be nice to travel again in the States, it's been a long while since it made sense with the exchance rate.
That covers a lot of ground from Cape Spear down to the Roosevelt Campobello whirlpool. Surely you didn't move north of Happy Valley? :shades:
Just reading a May news story about the Yaris being the only small car up there to qualify for the new fuel efficiency tax rebate, and Honda being so furious about about it that they offered a $1,000 CAD rebate for Fit buyers.
Have to be 100% honest iluvmysephia1, I don't like the looks of them at all. I just looked at the vehicle you mentioned...I'll try & see if I can post a pic. But to be honest it reminds me of cross between a geo metro & maybe a renault. Not trying to be difficult but I just don't get it. It looks like it may have a tiny bit more clearance than an echo or yaris. I doubt it would stand up to anything other than easy driving over the mid to long term & I looked up costs for common repairs for it & they aren't cheap. The interior is pretty much the same as an echo which beats it in a few areas & the 2004-2006 Scion xA are way more expensive. Both it & the echo share the same size engine, horsepower as well. I would like to have something good to say about them or this class of vehicle but I just can't when I see the prices & what they are actually able to do over an echo/yaris etc. Where I live we can get winters that sometimes (like last winter) get next to no snow..& other winters with storms that dump from 2 to four feet of snow along with 60 to 70 mph winds & temps as cold as -28 celcius & windchills of -40 celcius or below & for the past 13 years I've driven small Toyotas with all season tires..from Canada's east coast to Toronto & (knock on wood) never been near a ditch or even did any real sliding...just drive with repect for the conditions & know your vehicles abilities.
Yeah I can't figure out the love affair with the half tons when most are just used like toys..never real work that a truck should be used for..(am I showing my age!) I laugh & call 'em Tonka Toys for people who didn't grow up.
You live in a really nice area, would love to drive along the roads to see the sites there someday.
I'll see if I can display the model you mentioned..it may not work..hope this doesn't break any rules here.
I just did a search for the 2007 Nissan Murano, a glorifed car in my opinion. Prices as of 10/26/2006 2WD S 4-door wagon Dealer Invoice $25,519 U.S. Destination Charge $650 & that's the cheapest one of five models they have. That's a lot of hard earned cash for a rig that might be a bit more sturdy than a corolla for example. And the gas milage..here's the quote..."Test 2WD Muranos averaged 19.6-20.1 mpg in city/highway driving--impressive for a V6 midsize SUV. Test AWD models averaged 16.3 in mostly city driving, 22.4 mpg in mostly highway use"
IMPRESSIVE!? What are these dudes smoking? I guess some people have more cash than brains. I can see the owners watching the gas gauge going down every 15 miles or so, happy they purchased the best guzzler in the class. Uh yeah right.
Looking at some of the standard equipment..(one question first..what's with vehicles and interior air filters now, does it have something to do with so many people stopping at Taco Bell drive thrus?) We just used to wind down the window. Power steering, now there's a selling point. 235/65TR18 tires..lots of $ to replace.
If you want to step up to the SL from the S..one of the nice additions is a compass...great when you're too drunk or stupid to know where the sun rises & sets. Should come in useful about once every 100,000 miles or less. Canadian tire sells them for a couple of bucks.
automatic day/night rearview mirror...great for people who have no hands. :confuse: How much to repair?
universal garage door opener...we used to call these door knobs.
automatic headlights...for those who aren't sure if that's the sun in their eyes or headlights from an 18 wheeler.
tire-pressure monitor...wonder how much this adds & how much to maintain or repair? We used to use a $5 to $10 gauge & check the tires before we went anywhere.
Have to say, if I were in the market for something these things pretend to be I go for an actual SUV.
Haha, can't miss going to those spud museums. The new provincial government recently elected here promised to lower the tax on gas which will help a bit hopefully.
snakeweasel....if your potatos taste like the ones they grow here it wasn't a bad idea. The ground water across this province has higher than what is normal & considered healthy nitrate levels..some areas are worse than others..we have our own well (rural area).
Most of it is big corperations that don't care about how the farmers used to farm...they just spray the fields & rake in the profits without concern for the health of the people. And our new licence plates this year say on them "Canada's Green Province" what a crock of dung. I also had to laugh at the new plate wondering what people will think in winter down in places like Florida seeing our tourists driving down in their Yukons etc & the plate telling the world we're the Greenest province..makes on wonder how bad the others are. :confuse:
Maybe they just mean the gables are green (you knew someone was bound to mention that, and no, we passed it by to go to the experimental windmill farm).
"Almost one in four Canadians will forgo trips to their cottages because of steep gas prices, while 12 per cent might sell their retreat altogether if the cost of getting there keeps rising," Vancouver Sun
I mentioned I couldn't figure out what anyone would need this added expense for not to mention the cost...well here's an example of what I was talking about..
This is what I've been ranting about with todays vehicles, so much tech that people aren't driving cars so much now as the are computers but they continue to buy this added fluff which increases the cost to buy the vehicle, higher insurance, has got to be adding weight, repair times are longer, troubleshooting is getting tougher & just makes the manufacturers add even more.
Imagine what a nightmare buying a used car built today with all these pretty add on will be like for the many consumers 6 to 10 years from now. No factory warranties on them & who knows just like it's been for decades who owned them before & how they drove them, maintained them.
There's going to be a lot more angry used car purchasers ten years from now.
Tire pressure monitors are required because of new motor vehicle safety standards down here (mostly due to Explorer roll-over wrecks).
And since most people don't keep their tires properly inflated, it's a way to force people to cope with ... $4 a gallon gas, since properly inflated tires will help your mpg. Topical eh? :shades:
Thanks again for the info. Are people not aware of the high centre of gravity on a lot of SUVs? Seems like common sense to not drive the Explorer past it's limitations just like any vehicle, but that's just me & a few decades worth of driving behind me.
yeah now who's off topic. Last time I'll mention that!
For several years after my Honda Accord died, I drove my company's Ford Explorer. I HATED that truck. It was the most dangerous vehicle I've ever driven - worse than a tractor. If I hit the brakes doing 20 MPH it shimmyed like a fat man in a speedo grande.
I hated driving on the Beltway. I always stayed in the far right lane, never drove over 55 - and if someone cut in front of me, I eased off. That truck was not stoppable. Swerving at even low speeds was a hair raising experience. NEVER AGAIN!
I just refilled my Matrix 2007 xr 5 speed. This tank was entirely around town stop and go driving. No highway to speak of. (I live in Northern Virginia.) I got 37 MPG. I'm one of those people who slip into neutral going downhill, and am getting some good mileage. This isn't my best yet: That was coming back from Blacksburg several weeks ago: 41 MPG. I've very pleased.
There's going to be a lot more angry used car purchasers ten years from now.
I'm with you on all the high tech being a waste and a big repair bill after the warranty expires. I think cars today are being built as disposables. Put a 150K miles and recycle it.
I would think you would want an SUV with bad driving conditions a big part of the year. So many cars including my wife's Lexus, drag going into driveways. They are way too low for me. They are harder to get in and out of. I like the Yukon height SUV.
I think $4 gas is the least of our worries. The automakers have got us programmed to buy a new car when the warranty runs out. Or buy a few more years of peace of mind for a couple grand more. For those unable to save enough to pay cash for a car, they have a perpetual payment with big interest going down the toilet. My gas bill the last 12 months was $1288. Does anyone have a car payment for less than $107 per month. We worry too much about the gas and not how the automakers are sticking it to us. Makes the oil companies seem like the Salvation Army by comparison.
Comments
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I know someone in downstate IL that has his own well. He gets some of the sweetist water you have ever tasted.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Of course they would. That's what drives speculation. The house hasn't gone up in value one cent. The supposed $50,000 increase in "value" is just a psycho-neural bubble in people's heads, no more real than you or I dreaming of a two-headed giraffe.
If I detail your car is it worth $10,000 more? Of course not, it just looks better to you or to a new buyer.
If you run out of gas in Death Valley, then you know the value of gas vs. the price of gas. :P
And that you feel like they are a "stupid class of vehicle" begs the question: why do you feel that way? Did I read and understand your comment to mean that you feel that they are wasteful as far as fuel economy goes? If so, your thoughts on that matter are incorrect. They can be designed to be fairly(not the best that can be purchased mind you)fuel-efficient. An example of a "crossover" vehicle is a Scion xA or a Kia Rio5. Both get around 32-35mpg and that by todays standards is not bad for fuel effieciency.
Eh?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I have friends who like their Echo but they don't drive the 401 every day, and you probably avoid it if you can as well when you travel west. That road is a bit unnerving even in my big minivan. And are you getting 50 miles per Imperial or "US" gallon?
The thing is if it didn't go up in value then you wouldn't get the extra price. If someone is willing to pay that price then it must have that value at the very least to them. Do not confuse value with the sum total of the parts, sometimes its greater sometimes its less.
The supposed $50,000 increase in "value" is just a psycho-neural bubble in people's heads
But thats all value is. Thats why the value of something changes over time and circumstances and is different among different people.
If I detail your car is it worth $10,000 more?
That is an argument in the absurd. But if you do detail it does it go up in value? Most likely yes as nice clean used cars sell for more than dingy dirty ones. Did it go up the same amount as the materials you use and the value of your time in doing the detail? Most likely not.
its a fact that if the house can be sold for that $50K more than the value of it has increased by $50K.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
A gallon of gas is very hard to evaluate because a gallon of gas is all about potential. We can't hoard it or easily barter for it or trade it for something. It's really all out of our hands when it comes to setting price. We have no way to know if the price is legitimate, whereas with the Barbie doll or coin, we do.
It seems that gas is more like bread to us than a commodity we can take or leave.
Visiting Host
And thats part of what gives it value.
Not making a distinction between value and price is what causes market collapses.
Nope what causes markets to collapse are changes in values. What causes those changes are numerous. A typical market crash can be done when values are driven up by a momentary spike in demand. That increase in prices creates a push in the supply. However the increase in supply lags behind the spike in demand and creates a glut in the market.
There are other reasons why markets crash but we don't need to go into them.
Just remember that if the value isn't there you will never get the price. As an example, I could price my house at a million dollars, but since that is not its true value no one would even entertain the prospect of buying my house for that much. Once the price is low enough to equal the value to at least one person the house will sell and that will be the value of the house.
If its $50k more than what I paid for it without doing anything so be it. It is still the value of the house.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
If you didn't, who did?
In fact, it's just an illusion.
If tomorrow, everyone woke up and said snakeweasel's house is worthless, it would be worthless.
So it is merely mental aberration that gives it value, which is why it isn't really value, it's price. No mental process can increase the value of an object, it can only influence the price.
Value requires blood sweat and tears in other words.
A gallon of gas has value because of everyone's hands-on talent to make it. The price is the product of one oil company exec lifting up the phone.
To many variables to answer that question.
If you didn't, who did?
Markets dictate that. If I had a house and put in a pool and the market dictated that that adds nothing to the value of the house it doesn't add value to the house. If the market dictates that the house goes up in value even though I did nothing to it then it goes up in value.
In fact, it's just an illusion.
No if someone is paying their hard earned money on it thats not an illusion.
If tomorrow, everyone woke up and said snakeweasel's house is worthless, it would be worthless.
Basically yes, if everyone determines that my house is worthless than it would be seeing that if everyone thinks its worthless no one will pay me for the house. Hence it will be worthless.
Value requires blood sweat and tears in other words.
Nope, value requires that someone is willing to pay that price for an object. Blood sweet and tears has no bearing on it.
A gallon of gas has value because of everyone's hands-on talent to make it.
A gallon of gas only has value because people are willing to pay money for that gallon of gas. Gas prices go up even though the "hands on talent" to make it stays the same. So using your argument that means that more people are doing more to that gallon of gas than there was 6 months ago. But thats not the case, the "talent" to make it doesn't increase but the price does.
The only thing that gives anything its value is what someone else is willing to give up for it, nothing more, nothing less.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
1.) Pay $4/gallon or
2.) Walk
In the short term not much more I can do.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I have a reservation for a hotel in Albuquerque this month. The charge for Friday and Saturday is 30% more than the other 4 nights. Same room and amenities.
Most businesses charge whatever the market will bear.
Good try. We may have a fatal case of topic drift...... Could have an effect on the value of the topic but not the price....
Take a look at the exteriors of some of the Big 3 cars...paint peeling, premature rusting in regions with winter etc (those of you who live in dry areas & no snow may have better luck.)
What's with (especially) GM & peeling paint year after year on the same models? Sunfire, Grand Am etc. Can't they get it right or at least improve? Chrysler has this problem too on some of their models like mini-vans, neons etc...Ford doesn't seem to be quite as bad.
If I needed another car now I would like to think there was a Big 3 auto that had a model I thought was worth the money, I like the new Ford a little from the outside..not sure of the name of the car. But these days a lot of the Japanese cars are made by people in the States or here in Canada I don't feel like I'm weakening our economies by buying them.
And if you'll all notice gagrice said "$2.00/gal." Notice how he didn't say $1.85/gal? I have mentioned here on Edmunds many times before that I have noticed the oil companies lift prices up above $2.00/gal and not let them go lower than that. Watch and you'll see...it must be a certain profit comfort level they must have...a greed goal if you will.
I am of the school of thought that we will never again see ghastly fall below $2.00/gal for 87 no-lead. And yes, I know, never is a long, long time, for all of us.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
For those who are tradesmen or people who live in areas like mountainous areas or a few areas that get real winters then sure, I can see how these vehicles are needed...but you're a small minority.
My reasons for calling them a stupid class of vehicle are partly stated above. The main reason being they are TRUELY Required by so few in my opinion they are just another way to sucker people out of their cash..nothing more than an overly complex car with a few add ons with higher prices, more to go wrong, higher insurance rates just to name a few. The milage you mentioned may be not bad, but compared to what? A Yukon or Mid size, Civic, Corrolla? How much more room inside for instance how many more people will it leagally carry compared to a (just for example) Civic or Corrolla or for those that prefer a Big 3 model then the equivalant of the Civic or Corrolla?
Just out of curiousity, what would anyone living away from mountainous areas or northern Canada need one for? Potholes, crossing railroad tracks, rain, off roading, pulling a camper & if that's the main buyers why am I not seeing it?
For anyone wanting to buy one, go for it & enjoy..seriously have fun. But I just don't get why, except in the cases I stated.
Eh? lol
For those of you who haven't figured it out yet, OPEC and their co-conspirators are running a price roller coaster scam.
They spike the price (yes, THEY control it, not the oft-blamed "traders" or "refinery shutdowns" or "high demand in China. For evidence of this, simply look at the latest price spike -- 2 months of gas price increases, all the while gasoline inventories INCREASED; a complete perversion of supply/demand economics). After the spike, they drop the price to placate that critical mass of people who otherwise would figure out the scam and do something to stop it. But they never drop the price quite back to where it was.
The next spike goes even higher, and the corresponding drop stops higher on the scale, too. On and on it goes.
I lived in CA when this routine began in 2003. Gas went from 1.30 to 2.00, then back to 1.50. Next spike in 2004 went to 2.70, then back to 1.80. In 2005 big oil had a field day with the hurricane -- spiked gas to 3.20, then let it drift down slowly to 2.25. Same story in 2006 with summer prices over 3, winter prices just above 2. Now in 2007, gas hit 3.50, so count on 2.50 as the next low.
So far, the U.S. economy has absorbed this price inflation amazingly well. Most drivers know that they're getting pimped, but can only shrug their shoulders and pay that extra $30 per week. After all, the entire transportation system of this country and all the infrastructure that supports it cater only to internal combustion engines. We can't change it overnight ... not even over a decade. Opec, et al., know this and take full advantage of it.
Credible polls show that gasoline would have to hit $4.25/gal. to get a mass reaction from consumers. At that point, most say that they'd cut back driving, try carpooling, buy smaller, more efficient cars, etc.
According to the gas price charts, we'll find out if that's true by this time next year.
Wow. They devised a plan where we are screwed and those heavily invested in oil are making a fortune. Holy smokes! What a coincidence!
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
me: All items have value. The value of something can obviously change based on how much there is and what the demand is for it. (Remember the Clampetts never valued oil much; cursing it when they hit it while digging their root-cellar.
It wouldn't be very useful for OPEC to say the value of a barrel of oil is 70, without a price? Is that 70 Hershey bars? 70 oz of copper, or $70. Price, is the value defined in units-of-value.
So yes a house or a classic car can go up in value (as value is a function of demand, which is a psychological phenomenon), and the price is the value in some units. Fine art would be a good example of items that do not improve (they deteriorate if anything), have no function but yet go up in value. The value is simply related to how much someone wants something, not its usefulness or based on reason.
To me, a crossover is something like a Honda CR-V or Toyota RAV-4, where it's essentially a car-based wagon posing as an SUV.
I've been sticking religiously to 65 mph or under, coasting down hills and using only modest acceleration....last fill up I busted 40 mpg for the first time, and 39.4 the fill up before that.
This is mostly highway driving and paying very close attention to what I'm doing.
This compares to my last 3 months calculated average of 34.5.
So that's the best I can do. I feel like I'm being sedated, but I'm going to keep this up for a little while longer and see if practice makes perfect.
Visiting Host
2.) Walk
Other people may have a mass transport or car pool option. Or you may choose to live closer to your job when you need a different housing situation.
Or if you are in the Alaska bush, where heating oil/gas runs $8 or more a gallon currently, you idle your snowgo and go back to heating with wood (assuming you can get gas for the chain saw and enough gas to haul the logs back to town). Many of the ~100,000 villagers in Alaska are becoming energy refugees and moving to the cities - or east Texas. (link - may be subscription only)
Lots of midwest towns in the states seem to be dying (though not from energy costs - yet). Of course the ethanol boom is going to save them.
I don't live in Toronto anymore..living on the East Coast now but I have put many a mile on the 401 along with the DVP, 427 etc over the years & Boston & N.Y as well visiting relatives.
My tanks holds 45 Litres or 9.9 Imperial gal or 11.9 US gal by the way.
Gas which is selling for $1.13.9 a litre or aprox. $5.17 an Imperial gal (our gas is regulated by the Province & prices can only change on the 15th & last day of the month so we don't see the daily fluctuations)
I'm did the calculations recently & I'm getting 48.47 miles per imperial gallon combined city/highway.
An example of a crossover would be a Mazda5, part SUV and part-car. I used the example of the Kia Rio5 because to me it's a car and morphing away from the traditional SUV look. Maybe it's not the best example. Look at a 2004-2006 Scion xA for a sec. Do you see a certain semblance of a SUV and also a car? No, they're good examples..part car and part SUV. 4 doors required to be a crossover.
A Nissan Murano, an SUV or a crossover? To me it's a crossover. A Ford Exploder is a true SUV.
Even my recent trade-in, a 2001 Kia Sportage 4X4, that's a SUV. Smaller version of the Exploder from Ford. But the new or old Sportage is not a crossover. The new Sportage does not have the truck-based "ladder" style frame that made the 1995-2002 Kia Sportage's true SUV's. The new Kia Sportage is car-based yet it's body design defines it as a SUV because it's not trying to morph back in to a car look, it looks like a body on frame SUV, but it's pinned together like a car.
roy32, you're preaching to the choir, though, on the American craze in pickup trucks. I've seen so many pickup trucks lately here in Arizona, as well as the other Midwest states I've lived in and my home state of Washington, that I can't but think that these are patriotically-drenched individuals that equate their truck to power and advantage. The American way. Oh, and power means bowing to big 'ole oil prices if you stand to gain and profit from those prices. Wonder who I might be thinking of here?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
The difference is .833 Imperial gallon to one U.S. gallon...a difference of .76 litres per gallon..so if I were to use your gallon then the price would be roughly $4.41 a U.S. gallon. Also I'm not sure what the Canadian $ closed at yesterday (Friday) but while at my bank this week I asked & our $ was over .94cents to the U.S. dollar which would convert to aprox. $4.14 here.
Hard to believe that not that long ago our $ was trading around 62 cents for a U.S. $.
Some Economists are saying our $ will be on par with yours before long. Will be nice to travel again in the States, it's been a long while since it made sense with the exchance rate.
That covers a lot of ground from Cape Spear down to the Roosevelt Campobello whirlpool. Surely you didn't move north of Happy Valley? :shades:
Just reading a May news story about the Yaris being the only small car up there to qualify for the new fuel efficiency tax rebate, and Honda being so furious about about it that they offered a $1,000 CAD rebate for Fit buyers.
Yeah I was suprised when the Federal list of vehicles came out for the $1000.00 rebate..Honda wern't a bunch of happy campers.
We used to have a potato museum near here, that is until it was taken over by some Russians who turned it into a Vodka Museum.
Ducking and running
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I just looked at the vehicle you mentioned...I'll try & see if I can post a pic. But to be honest it reminds me of cross between a geo metro & maybe a renault.
Not trying to be difficult but I just don't get it. It looks like it may have a tiny bit more clearance than an echo or yaris. I doubt it would stand up to anything other than easy driving over the mid to long term & I looked up costs for common repairs for it & they aren't cheap. The interior is pretty much the same as an echo which beats it in a few areas & the 2004-2006 Scion xA are way more expensive. Both it & the echo share the same size engine, horsepower as well.
I would like to have something good to say about them or this class of vehicle but I just can't when I see the prices & what they are actually able to do over an echo/yaris etc.
Where I live we can get winters that sometimes (like last winter) get next to no snow..& other winters with storms that dump from 2 to four feet of snow along with 60 to 70 mph winds & temps as cold as -28 celcius & windchills of -40 celcius or below & for the past 13 years I've driven small Toyotas with all season tires..from Canada's east coast to Toronto & (knock on wood) never been near a ditch or even did any real sliding...just drive with repect for the conditions & know your vehicles abilities.
Yeah I can't figure out the love affair with the half tons when most are just used like toys..never real work that a truck should be used for..(am I showing my age!) I laugh & call 'em Tonka Toys for people who didn't grow up.
You live in a really nice area, would love to drive along the roads to see the sites there someday.
I'll see if I can display the model you mentioned..it may not work..hope this doesn't break any rules here.
http://images.consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/autoreview/400x266/2004-06-Scion-xA-05813001990004.jpg
Edit:
I just did a search for the 2007 Nissan Murano, a glorifed car in my opinion. Prices as of 10/26/2006
2WD S 4-door wagon Dealer Invoice $25,519 U.S. Destination Charge $650 & that's the cheapest one of five models they have.
That's a lot of hard earned cash for a rig that might be a bit more sturdy than a corolla for example. And the gas milage..here's the quote..."Test 2WD Muranos averaged 19.6-20.1 mpg in city/highway driving--impressive for a V6 midsize SUV. Test AWD models averaged 16.3 in mostly city driving, 22.4 mpg in mostly highway use"
IMPRESSIVE!? What are these dudes smoking? I guess some people have more cash than brains. I can see the owners watching the gas gauge going down every 15 miles or so, happy they purchased the best guzzler in the class. Uh yeah right.
Looking at some of the standard equipment..(one question first..what's with vehicles and interior air filters now, does it have something to do with so many people stopping at Taco Bell drive thrus?) We just used to wind down the window.
Power steering, now there's a selling point.
235/65TR18 tires..lots of $ to replace.
If you want to step up to the SL from the S..one of the nice additions is a compass...great when you're too drunk or stupid to know where the sun rises & sets. Should come in useful about once every 100,000 miles or less.
Canadian tire sells them for a couple of bucks.
automatic day/night rearview mirror...great for people who have no hands. :confuse: How much to repair?
universal garage door opener...we used to call these door knobs.
automatic headlights...for those who aren't sure if that's the sun in their eyes or headlights from an 18 wheeler.
tire-pressure monitor...wonder how much this adds & how much to maintain or repair? We used to use a $5 to $10 gauge & check the tires before we went anywhere.
Have to say, if I were in the market for something these things pretend to be I go for an actual SUV.
Most of it is big corperations that don't care about how the farmers used to farm...they just spray the fields & rake in the profits without concern for the health of the people. And our new licence plates this year say on them "Canada's Green Province" what a crock of dung. I also had to laugh at the new plate wondering what people will think in winter down in places like Florida seeing our tourists driving down in their Yukons etc & the plate telling the world we're the Greenest province..makes on wonder how bad the others are. :confuse:
Sounds a bit like New Jersey calling themselves "The Garden State".
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
"Almost one in four Canadians will forgo trips to their cottages because of steep gas prices, while 12 per cent might sell their retreat altogether if the cost of getting there keeps rising," Vancouver Sun
Thanks for the link.
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.efef0d8/0
This is what I've been ranting about with todays vehicles, so much tech that people aren't driving cars so much now as the are computers but they continue to buy this added fluff which increases the cost to buy the vehicle, higher insurance, has got to be adding weight, repair times are longer, troubleshooting is getting tougher & just makes the manufacturers add even more.
Imagine what a nightmare buying a used car built today with all these pretty add on will be like for the many consumers 6 to 10 years from now. No factory warranties on them & who knows just like it's been for decades who owned them before & how they drove them, maintained them.
There's going to be a lot more angry used car purchasers ten years from now.
And since most people don't keep their tires properly inflated, it's a way to force people to cope with ... $4 a gallon gas, since properly inflated tires will help your mpg. Topical eh? :shades:
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I hated driving on the Beltway. I always stayed in the far right lane, never drove over 55 - and if someone cut in front of me, I eased off. That truck was not stoppable. Swerving at even low speeds was a hair raising experience. NEVER AGAIN!
I'm with you on all the high tech being a waste and a big repair bill after the warranty expires. I think cars today are being built as disposables. Put a 150K miles and recycle it.
I would think you would want an SUV with bad driving conditions a big part of the year. So many cars including my wife's Lexus, drag going into driveways. They are way too low for me. They are harder to get in and out of. I like the Yukon height SUV.
I think $4 gas is the least of our worries. The automakers have got us programmed to buy a new car when the warranty runs out. Or buy a few more years of peace of mind for a couple grand more. For those unable to save enough to pay cash for a car, they have a perpetual payment with big interest going down the toilet. My gas bill the last 12 months was $1288. Does anyone have a car payment for less than $107 per month. We worry too much about the gas and not how the automakers are sticking it to us. Makes the oil companies seem like the Salvation Army by comparison.