Are gas prices fueling your pain?

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  • msindallasmsindallas Member Posts: 190
    There's going to be a lot more angry used car purchasers ten years from now.

    I'm with you on all the high tech being a waste and a big repair bill after the warranty expires. I think cars today are being built as disposables. Put a 150K miles and recycle it.


    I think technology is unable to solve the problem of human greed, the main pillar of our civilization. Sure, high tech can solve technical problems - spark plug timing or torque distribution. The chip pro'lly costs $10. If it fails, the automaker will charge $2000 to replace it (including a 5min labor). Technology cannot solve this problem.

    Another example: DRL is an expensive safety option in Toyota Sienna, often bundled with others. On some website, they tell people how to insert a fuse or a link in the fuse box to get DRL for free, which is available in every car but deactivated. Can you guess why Toyota doesnt offer this option for $5 or free on a $25000 vehicle?

    I think it hurts the car makers' business if car-reliability is too high and cars are driven for 10-12 years or 500K miles, or if they dont depreciate. Solution - use electronics to disable the car - intentionally sabotage it - right after the warranty expires. And its all in the electronics and their proprietary software - no one can complain. Cool way to generate extra profit from selling/recycling more cars. I wish I could buy a car today with absolutely no electronic memory.
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    Gimmee a brake! We live in the best of times! Most people trade cars because they want to. Not because the car is worn out. Well bilt and well maintained cars can last at least 250k.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    I just filled up today and have increased my mileage by about 2.5-3.0 MPG just by easing off the gas (not taking it over 3K RPM's), anticipating stops and the like. May not sound like much but I can drive an extra 25-30 miles before refueling.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I'm gonna keep it up for 1,500 miles. If it still registers 40 MPG average, then I'll start to think it's real. I'm two tankfuls there now, about 700 miles into the test. This isn't easy for me, gimme a hug. :cry:
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Some of our domestic refining capacity is still just limping along, after at least four months of extraordinary down time," she said, citing seasonal maintenance and more than 30 other events "that were beyond ordinary seasonal tune-ups," including fires and explosions."

    Survey: Gas prices post first drop since January (CNN)
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    yeah, but what's your big penalty in a rig like a 2005 Scion xA, 30mpg instead of 40? Your crossover, ooops...hatchback is economy all the way. And fairly fun to drive to boot. The engine doesn't hesitate to tell you it's straining when you wind it out before shifting up but at least it pops you along fairly well for your effort. That's a car I wouldn't get an automatic tranny in, stick shift all the way for the xA.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • jkinzeljkinzel Member Posts: 735
    Since 1975 I have owned 4 pick-ups/cars not counting the Pinto that came with my wife when I married her. Hit the big one on that dowry. :shades:
    Any way, I put well over 100k miles on all of them and had each one over 13 years. The 75 Chevy pick-up had over 200k when I gave it away.
    Currently we own a 94 Ford Ranger with 120K and a 93 Ford Explorer with 190K miles. I plan to replace the Explorer with a new car in the next 12 to 18 months and I hope that new vehicle will be a diesel.
    I would guess from my car buying history, I’m not a huge asset to the auto industry.
    BTW, All except the Ranger were new when purchased, the Ranger was 2 years old
    Our monthly fuel bill is running $150 to $225 with gas being $3.23 -$3.45 a gal.
    My solution to $4.00 a gallon gas is to buy a diesel, if and when they get here.

    Msindallas, as for technology, I’m kind of looking forward to some aspects of it, but apprehensive about most of it. I like the idea of the oil life display and running mpg, but too much other stuff to go wrong.
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    It's always fun to buy a new car every 10 years or so. You get in the new car and it's like a spaceship compared to your old car.
  • jkinzeljkinzel Member Posts: 735
    I know, I like taking cars for test drives, it's like a new world.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I like high tech as well as the next guy. I do not like being held hostage by the automaker. The more proprietary computer devices they add the more difficult to get an independent to work on the vehicle. I think it is planned obsolescence by the automakers. I have never owned a vehicle with 150k miles. I have two 18 year old vehicles currently. They are both running pretty well. I just do not see anything out there I have any faith in to last near that long. I will probably buy a diesel of some sort in the next 12 months. I will get the extended warranty. The reason, I do not trust any automaker today. They all have a license to steal issued by the US government via the EPA & NHTSA.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    You're doing better than us - my wife and I have had 6 cars since we met in 1980. Two of them in '80/'81 were beaters and shouldn't really count against us eh? :P

    I don't think any of them got worse than ~18 mpg. 20 mpg overall was always the target when shopping.
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    If you've had the cars for 18 years then you chose well. The most important component of keeping a car for a long time is to purchase one you really like.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Both belong to my wife. She bought them new. 1990 Mazda 626 and the LS400. Lexus always in the garage the Mazda used to run errands. Both under 100k miles. The Mazda cost a lot less to maintain than the Lexus. We will probably give the Mazda to someone in the family that needs a car. Just keep the Lexus forever. No CD or XM but it runs good. Gets 19 MPG around town. Last trip to Vegas it got 27 MPG at 75-80 MPH. Still under 90k miles.
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla Member Posts: 707
    You really oughtta post what kinda car you were driving at the time...
  • rocketman67rocketman67 Member Posts: 82
    I drive less than 10K a year so I don't really care if gas will get to be $5 a gallon. I think we will see $5/gal by this time next year.
    My 2k6 Nissan NISMO 4x4 with 7K miles on the OD gets a steady 19-20 MPG in mix driving so I'm comfortable with that.

    I still see people driving 80+ in a 65-70 posted areas so maybe $5/gal will make more of a statement.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    One thing I don't like about driving 65 mph or less is that I have to be much more vigilant, lest I get plowed into from the rear.

    As for revving up the Scion xA, that's a waste of gasoline. There's no power up there near redline. That's the case for most very small displacement engines. I have a *sense* now of where my engine's powerband is (a dyno test is the best way I think) and so 4800 rpm or so is my intuitive sense of where anything useful might be hiding in terms of power. :P

    Of course, engines like a Honda S2000's, or a motorcycle engine, would be a whole different story. And for a small-ish turbo diesel, I'd expect even below 4500 rpm is plenty good. And for older diesel cars, 3500 is more than enough.
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    Torque peak for diesels is 1900-2000 rpm.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Keep it up shifty, you are an inspiration to us all! Well, to me at least. If you can get a steady 40 mpg as a running average in the xA, I am going to have to shoot to improve my 40-mpg figure in my Echo to maybe 44 or so...

    :-)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    So if you lose 10% mpg (dependent on the vehicle) by driving over the 65mph limit, that's $0.50/gal at $5.00/gal. That sure isn't much to most people I know. I see people spending $1.30 for a soda from a vending machine here at work, so I don't know if anyone's down to their last $.

    I always wonder if people are tight on $ what do they give up first - lottery tickets, cell phones, cable TV, McDonald's or gasoline? If gasoline is the last thing people give up, then we can expect demand to stay high and the prices will go up.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I can do the numbers for you on my car:

    If I continue to drive at 65 mph, my gas mileage improvements (if they prove correct) will save me, at the current price of $3.43 a gallon, about $250 a year.

    If the price of gas were $5, this restrained driving will save me $350 per year.

    If I did NOT continue this restrained driving, but merely DROVE LESS, I would have to drive approx. 13,500 per year rather than 16,000 per year.

    I could in fact do this by using a bicycle for all local errands. Of course this is only an option for people in fairly temperate climates. But it could easily be done.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,055
    and figured out the potential savings if I could get my pickup to improve about 10%. Now, I'd say I average about 12 mpg, in mostly local driving. But it also gets driven, at the most, maybe 5,000 miles per year. A 10% improvement would bump it up to 13.2 mpg. That would save about 38 gallons per year. That's $114 at $3.00 per gallon, $152 at $4.00 per gallon, and $190 at $5.00 per gallon. On a monthly basis, that comes out to about $10-16 per month.

    And even at 5,000 miles per year, if I really wanted to deprive myself I could really cut it to the bone. My round trip commute is 7 miles per day, and there's a gas station and a grocery store on the way. I figure if I really wanted to rough it, I could cut my driving back to under 2,000 per year. But it would be a pretty boring life.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Not to mention that daily $5 latte at Starbucks. Now there is a big waste of money and a poor thing to put in your body.
  • tpetpe Member Posts: 2,342
    If I continue to drive at 65 mph, my gas mileage improvements (if they prove correct) will save me, at the current price of $3.43 a gallon, about $250 a year.

    You must drive almost 100% highway miles. I'd guess that the average motorist drives no more than 50% of his yearly miles at speeds of 65 mph or higher. And since your highway mileage is going to be better it probably only accounts for about 40% of the fuel you consume. So let's say you burn 600 gallons per year, fairly typical. About 250 was burned in highway driving and 350 in city driving. If slowing down on highways improved your fuel economy by 10-15% your talking around a fuel savings of roughly 30 gallons per year, or $100. Most people aren't going to care about that.

    Is anybody actually suggesting that we slow down in all situations? I guarantee that I get better mileage in 5th gear travelling at 50 mph than I do in third gear at 30 mph. If saving fuel is of such paramount importance maybe we should be speeding up sometimes?
  • msindallasmsindallas Member Posts: 190
    Msindallas, as for technology, I’m kind of looking forward to some aspects of it, but apprehensive about most of it. I like the idea of the oil life display and running mpg, but too much other stuff to go wrong.

    Yup, me too. And when a problem surfaces, they will just claim oversight. Makes you wonder how much you should trust these people. Regards, - MS.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    "If saving fuel is of such paramount importance maybe we should be speeding up sometimes?"

    I like that. "Look, officer, I'm only doing my part to reduce gasoline consumption.".....
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • msindallasmsindallas Member Posts: 190
    We drive 2000mi/mo, and at 20mpg, consume about 100gal/mo. that is about 400 gal for the 4 summer months - May through August. How about building a 500gal gas tank in the backyard and save up about 450 gals during the Fall and the Spring for use in Summer? If the annual summertime price spike is $1.50/gal, that would be a saving of $600 every summer session, and the gas tank/pump might pay for itself.

    Did anybody try this? Is it feasible and legal? How about safety issues? We could also try 20 of those 20gal red plastic cans for saving those 400 gals of gas.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,135
    Don't know about legal, but it would be dangerous - gas has a bad habit of leaking, and the fumes can collect explosively. House in Anchorage went up when the new owners (belatedly) discovered the previous owners buried a gas storage tank in the back yard.

    edit-Also wouldn't want stale gas - gas stations have rapid turnover, you'd have to worry about varnish, condensation, etc. Not worth it for the $$ involved.
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    Is anybody actually suggesting that we slow down in all situations?

    me: Agree. If you're going downhill and you want to save fuel you shouldn't be braking. To optimize fuel mpg the speed limits should be waived when reasonable, so people can coast further and faster at the bottoms. I drive in hilly country and I know it makes a definite difference whether I go 50 or coast at 75mph.

    The other thing we could implement is that if no other traffic is coming at a red light, you can proceed thru the light after stopping. Why have vehicles sitting there idling for 30 sec. unnecessarily? The person opting to proceed from the red would be responsible of course for any accident (just like turning right-on-red).
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,525
    You're preaching to the choir about that red light rule. I have thought for years that such a rule would be logical.

    Also, inept little cities such as my own should be forced to sequence their stoplights to match traffic patterns, and not allow lights to remain on weekday sequencing during weekends. How much less gas would be consumed if city traffic planners would actually do something to earn their pay and pensions?
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Absolutely! These long red lights where no traffic is there for the green are just gas wasters - and a nice revenue source when the local PD decides to camp there.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    You can always turn your engine off at the red light. :P

    I've heard that rolling stops are ok in England; one to save gas, and two, it's easier to keep moving in a manual if you don't have to come to a complete stop at an intersection.

    Roundabouts help too.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    :P yourself! :D

    Doesn't it use about a minute's worth of gas to turn the car back on? That's what they used to tell us....
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Yeah, but in the 21st Century, everything you thought you knew is wrong. ;)

    Test #6 Avoid Excessive Idling
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    "Stopping longer than a minute? Shut 'er down."

    Longer than a minute - isn't that what I said? Is someone playing mind games with me?......

    I can think of several light in the area where that would actually be useful.

    Right now I have taken to slowing down and accelerating and decelerating more slowly. I haven't measured the actual improvement other than to approximate it in my head but it's definitely there.

    If I keep driving like this I may have to where a hat and leave my left turn signal on.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    That was the straw man to lure you in - Ford says the number is 30 seconds. :D (link).

    The next question is how hard is all that starting on your starter. How do hybrids do it? "Rolling" starts when the gas engine kicks in?
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    I can't think of the last time I replaced a starter. I'm assuming it's good for the life of the car. Heck, even the Windstall still had the starter when we pushed it off a cliff.

    The fun thing will be in August when we go camping. I can shove everything we need, including the people, inside the van but it's like a puzzle and you have to reassemble every time you stop. It's one reason we upped to the EX and the current Ody - roof rack. So I'll save 10% by going slower and give half of it back with the cap.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,135
    Starter would be my concern, too - 2X a day, no problem, 20X a day...?? And the hybrids use different high-rpm setup, built for frequent starts. IIRC, one of the Hondas gives you the option of starting, with good economy gain if you do.
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    You haven't replaced a starter because you haven't been turning if off and on at each stoplight. :)
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,055
    I used to hear that the threshold was about a minute, too. But I think with modern, fuel-injected cars, it's more like 10-15 seconds.

    However, if you have an older, carbureted vehicle where it'll fire back up with just a turn of the key, and no pumping on the gas pedal, I wonder if the threshold would still be about a minute? I know once they get old and out of tune, sometimes you have to pump the pedal once or twice before turning the key, but sometimes you get lucky and find one that doesn't need that.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Good point.

    I think the last time I changed a starter I was indeed the one changing it. My brother's car had died in a parking lot. A friend and I pulled the old starter, went over to an auto parts store and got a new one and put it in. Piece of cake. I'm sure they've ambushed them like everything else now and I would need enough equipment to launch a space shuttle for teh job.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,055
    You haven't replaced a starter because you haven't been turning if off and on at each stoplight.

    Oh yeah, I almost forgot about that little "inconvenience". I think the last time I burned up a starter, it cost about $250 to replace. That was one of those little crappy lightweight starters on a 1989 Gran Fury ex-police car. And I can only presume that they've gotten more expensive since then. :sick:
  • kernickkernick Member Posts: 4,072
    Ok we could go on about whether it's 15 sec, 30sec, or 1 min of gas that is wasted when restarting. we could all talk about the life of a starter and the cost to repair it. Buut why don't we talk about what I originally proposed. Why aren't we changing our traffic laws to eliminate wasting fuel?

    If it is okay to turn right if there's no traffic, why couldn't we also turn left or right after coming to a stop at a red-light? people judge traffic in all directions when they are at a Stop sign.

    Why can't we go faster down a hill so we can coast? yes it is slightly less safe, but we as a society let people drive up to 75mph, when we know the roads would be safer at 45mph. Instead you'll usually find a cop at the bottom of the hill, and will penalize you for saving fuel by coasting.
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    It's too dangerous to have everybody winging it at some intersections. That's why we have the lights at some intersections and not at others. Your equipment is more valuable than gas. I sometimes take a slightly longer route if it has less stops. Figure I'm saving my brakes and transmission at the lower cost of gas. I'm sure I've thought about it way too much. :)
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,135
    Some cities are 'de-signing' their business districts, finding there are fewer accidents and faster movement if drivers are left to their own judgement, with fewer distractions.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    You could also drive more restraint and drive less and save even more money.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,055
    Your equipment is more valuable than gas. I sometimes take a slightly longer route if it has less stops. Figure I'm saving my brakes and transmission at the lower cost of gas.

    I used to do that, before I moved a few years ago. The shortest distance between my condo and my job was about 12.5 miles. I usually took a slightly more roundabout way that was about 15 miles, but had 7 or 8 fewer traffic lights and much less congestion. The 15 mile route usually took me about 20-25 minutes, whereas the 12.5 mile commute was usually 25-35.

    In addition to the brakes, transmission, tires, etc, I might've even saved a bit of fuel on the longer trip, as I spent a lot less time idling in traffic, speeding up and then stopping, etc.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    As others said it is dangerous and gas goes bad after a short while. But I do believe most municipalities have strict laws about storing gasoline and other potentially dangerous products.

    Now while I was in the service during the last of the gas crises' in the late 70's we joked about stealing a loaded tanker truck and burying it on the base and attaching a pump to it. I figured it might be easier to just buy a diesel and use the fuel we had for the boats. :blush:

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel Member Posts: 19,592
    why couldn't we also turn left or right after coming to a stop at a red-light?

    Well since I can barely go a week without having to slam on my breaks or make an emergency swerve to avoid the idiot who made the right turn on red 10 feet in front of me such a rule would cause me great concern.

    2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    '73 Plymouth Gold Duster. The starter cost around $35 from Schuck's Auto Parts and it took about 10 minutes to replace. Four bolts off and back on, done. That was around 1987 and no rig of mine has needed a starter since then.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Sounds like the repair I did. Mine was a 71 Nova.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
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