I can see it at $4/gallon in the next 12 months if only for a short time spike in prices,
Yeah, it's a'comin. I stopped and filled up my '85 Silverado today...89 octane at $3.199 per gallon. 87 was $3.059 and 93 was $3.299. Fuel economy was a whopping 14 mpg. I felt a little better though, when I passed two vehicles that probably get worse mileage...a Unimog and a farm combine!
I paid $3.47 for premium today...my car which hits 15mpg in the city on a good day looks a little thirstier all the time. Thankfully I don't have to drive much.
What will I do when it hits $4? Probably just grin and bear it.
No problem. Only rich folks drive cars that require Premium fuel.
It is interesting that Premium has maintained the approximate 20 cents difference. That makes it a lot smaller percentage on a per gallon basis. Almost an insignificant difference on a full tank. A 20 gallon tank of regular @ $3.69 is $73.80 that same tank filled with Premium is only $77.80. If your car gets better mileage with 91 octane it may be worth the price difference. I think I will try a tank full of Premium in my new Sequoia.
But do they REQUIRE it? Or can you drive around with 5 less hp using 87 octane?
I'm sure any car nowadays is "smart" enough to tone down the engine (they used to call it retarding the spark, but it's probably more complicated than that these days) if you put a lower octane fuel in it, so it won't knock and clatter and then diesel on when you shut it off.
However, if the car is designed to run on premium, don't you also lose a bit of economy when the engine dumbs down to run on the cheaper stuff? You might lose performance AND economy. So while you're paying less for the fuel, the reduced fuel economy might cancel out any savings.
If in fact the majority of Smart or MINI owners downgraded their fuel on purpose, and did so regularly, then the manufacturer made the wrong car for the market intended seems to me.
I have no way of knowing if people are actually doing that.
I don't think they have changed much...the rise in oil prices is likely due to a devalued American dollar as much as any other force. When you are spending Euros, a few more dollars isn't a big deal.
"...don't think they have changed much...the rise in oil prices is likely due to a devalued American dollar as much as any other force. When you are spending Euros, a few more dollars isn't a big deal."
The price of a barrel of oil has gone from 55 bucks last January to over 90 bucks now, which is better than a 64% rise. While the dollar has fallen, it sure hasn't fallen that far.
I've read that in the UK a gallon of petro will set you back more than eight dollars. Now that would be an experience that would cause a yank to pucker up.
...for the new movie "I Am Legend" when I went to the cinema Saturday night. The scariest things weren't the mutants, wild animals, or the prospect of the whole human race being wiped out by a virus. The scariest thing was a sign on a filling station showing Regular at $6.63!!!
Move to new house that drops round trip work commute from 94 miles a day to 29 miles a day. New house Should be ready in March. I will be expecting Total savings will be 100 gallons a month including the rest of my family. Cost to go to work will go from $11-18 a day down to $3.50-5.00 a day. My 2001 Silverado 4x4 has 19000 miles on it and will once again get used. It will only be $5 a day for gas to take it to work. I recently looked at it's resale value as it sits, and with 60,000 additional miles on it, and the values were the same. I drove it so infrequently for going on 4 years since I changed jobs.
What if I sold the silverado for $15k and got a new Prius for $24k? The Prius would be $1.75 a day to go to work -vs- $5 for the Truck. The $9k more for the Prius divided by the $3.25 a day gas savings would take 12.09 years to the break even point based on 229 work days a year. That would be ignoring the high annual excise taxes on the Prius, the interest on a $9,000 loan for the Prius, and the fact that a new Prius would depreciate faster than a 7 year old Chevy truck. Fortunately, we hit a low spot on gas prices here ($2.789 yesterday). This same comparison with $4 gas would take the 12 years to break even down to 9 years. With $5 gas starting today, it would go to 7.2 years. If gas goes from $3 to $5 as annual averages over 3 years time, you would still be at about 9 years to break even with a small Hybrid vs a big truck. This is not a comparison of a new truck vs a new Prius but there's only 19k miles difference.
That's the correct 'personal' analysis which every one should do. The concept of 'buying a good Used Vehicle' or in other words staying in your current vehicle is almost ALWAYS the best option from a personal budgetary POV.
Now from a national perspective, if using less fuel is the key goal,we have to address, then going to a more fuel efficient system ( or living/driving combo such as you did ) there needs to be some incentives to get people out of less efficient vehicles into more efficient ones. That natural forces of cost will drive a lot of people that way such as the graphiic posted by Mr_Shifty.
Move to new house that drops round trip work commute from 94 miles a day to 29 miles a day.
How many years will it take for your reduction in gasoline usage to recoup the closing costs? And if your new mortagage is higher than the old one, you'll never get ahead.
How many years will it take for your reduction in gasoline usage to recoup the closing costs? And if your new mortagage is higher than the old one, you'll never get ahead.
Yeah, that probably doesn't make sense from a purely financial standpoint. However, once you factor in other things, quality-of-life type stuff, it might still be worth it. For instance, if you're shaving off 65 miles per day in commuting time, depending on how bad traffic is, that could be 1.5-2 hours per day that's no longer wasted in commuting.
Plus, you could also factor in things like your car not wearing out as often, and such.
I would think that the move was not prompted by gas prices. It is just a happy secondary effect. I would think the (this all assumes 60 mph average drive speed) commute being reduced by an hour every day would be a great reason to move. An hour round trip woud be my maximum without seriously considering moving. A 90 minute commute round trip is almost an extra work day every week spent in your car. I know people who commute an hour each way and I think they are crazy. Push for telecommute.
"Right now in my little cars the annual bill is $1,427.00 at a current $3.39 a gallon."
Not too bad. I'm currently driving an Audi A4 with a modified two liter engine (about 230 hp and a manual, naturally :P ) and with about 9k miles a year I'm doing better than that
As for the UAV (urban assault vehicles), it's gonna take a lotta pump pain to pry the keys outta their hands. I would imagine that some will opt for a fuel miser and keep the tank for those "Baghdad Walmart" runs.
Like a few of the others on this site, I watch petroleum production and my guess is that the disparity between demand and supply is only going to get worse.
----
Ouch!... I just looked at the link to those Euro gas prices and they are nasty!
+/- quality of schools, quality of neighborhood, closeness to family, etc, etc.
However as fuel becomes increasingly important in our daily lives these decisions of where to live may have to be made by everybody. It may even come down to move closer to work or find a new employer closer to domicile or working from home.
As gas prices have continued to increase, I've started to question the wisdom of keeping my SUV. I should be able to trade into a '04-'05 car for the same amount that I currently owe, but get almost twice the mileage. At my current rate of 12K miles/year, I figure I should save about $900/year. I know my first year's savings would be canceled out by the tax on the new purchase, but other than that, what are the pros/cons of making a switch like this?
Using less gas per year is a good thing in itself. Besides that you should be able to end up in a vehicle that handles better (ie, better emergency handling), is less likely to roll in an accident, uses less expensive tires (unless you are into ultra high performance stuff), and might be able to haul as much cargo. A friend of mine has an Isuzu Trooper and a Ford Focus wagon (picked one up just before they were discontinued). While the Trooper can tow and haul more mass, the Focus actually has as much room for stuff.
Engine 4 stroke, Single Cylinder OHC, air cooled Displacement 223 cc Max. Power 17.0 PS @ 7000 rpm Maximum Speed 125 KMPH Acceleration (Time for 0 to 60 kmph) 3.8 seconds
I once knew someone who said that an hour of time off was worth two hours pay. This was an influencing factor. I plan to spend 6-7 less hours per week driving to work.
I am hoping for a close or even trade in houses. The builder of the new one is paying closing costs, the interest rates today are better than at any other time I've ever bought during. The schools are comparable.
Being able to switch back from the Mustang to the Silverado without burning almost $20 a day in gas will be enjoyable.
Good stuff is bigger, better house with warranty, still good schools, almost a day off gained each week (lost driving), back in the Silverado, total gas bill cut in half, avoid buying newer fuel efficient car, avoid selling Silverado for huge loss because I'd never use it, and less maint. work on cars.
Bad stuff is loss of proximity to friends, no longer having 600' to neighbors houses, having to add stuff to house that new ones come without, higher prop taxes, higher car ins for being near city.
Bummer about the weather; a bike isn't great all-year for folks with weather like that. But for a lot of other folks the weather is normally agreeable (or they ride when it is), and the use of a motorcycle is a good way to commute and lower the impact on the Earth's resources and save money on fuel, while arriving where you are going in a happier state of mind.
Provided, of course (as someone else brought up), you don't get run over by someone on the cel phone, yelling at the kids over the movie playing, or just plain inattentive because their vehicle is bigger than yours (all the time).
So yes, safety is a factor, and you must learn to be cautious and defensive. And not all motorcycle riders have a death wish, but we all do have to be on the lookout for aggressive drivers who don't feel they should have to share the road, and/or inevitably "zoom" right past drivers of vehicles who are less than attentive, which for some, startles them into thinking motorcyclists or motorcycling are/is unsafe.
But the rewards are worthwhile, just ask a motorcycle commuter who learns when to yield, as well as when to zoom. Compared to another car on the road at rush hour, they use less fuel, pollute much less, reduce traffic congestion, and it makes for a nice ride to wherever you need to go.
Ride a bike for a week. You will realize: people are BLIND!
I loved riding MotoX out in the desert. I would not get on a street bike. I had two MotoX friends killed on street bikes. People just pull out in front of you on a motorcycle or bicycle. I worry about my son in law riding his motorcycle to work every day.
I even encountered a few drivers that simply would not yield, they were bigger and basically would just force you out of the way, with zero regard for your safety. :sick:
I think scooters are far more dangerous than motorcycles. Those little wheels, steep steering rake and "chair seating" make for very poor response characteristics and poor handling. Ditto any motorcycle with extended forks and high bars----DEATH TRAP!
I rode big bikes for over 20 years with nary a scrape. The trick is constant, chipmunk-like vigilance. If it's not another car, it's a hole in the road, sand on mountain turns, wet leaves, manhole covers---you name it.
Seeing how most motorcyclists drive on Hwy 17, it's no wonder they get killed. With rare exception, most drive very recklessly, considering that they will lose in any encounter with a car.
But you keep your head up and eyes peeled, and you're okay on a bike.
...a beautiful lightly customized Harley Sportster that was featured in "Easyrider" magazine some years back. Some elderly woman in a Buick Regal ran him down and dragged him and his bike for almost half a block. My friend survived, but has steel pins in his hip and all his right leg bones down to the top of the foot. It took him a long time to recover.
But you keep your head up and eyes peeled, and you're okay on a bike
Maybe.
You offer good advice, for sure, but people still make blatant errors while driving and if you're in the way...make sure you sign that organ donor card.
Let's see, I was rear ended in my Forester hard enough that it would have killed me if I were on a bike. In my Miata, a Saab pulled out and slammed my side, which on a bike would have pushed me into oncoming traffic, where I probably would have been run over.
I guess I just have bad luck, so no more bikes for me.
I used to "sniff the air" before I rode. I'd measure the lunacy level. Maybe that worked. You know, Friday afternoons, or the day before a holiday---no way I'd ride.
I'm very careful where I ride my bikes. I would not feel comfortable riding around the city daily. Too many distracted drivers out there. It could work if your commute was mostly uncongested freeway or highway.
I have a big rear view mirror now, skate boarder's helmet, knee pads (sometimes). I dress for combat when bicycling. I don't ride motorcycles anymore. As they said in "American Gangster", -- "quitting while you're ahead is not the same as quitting".
Ride a bike for a week. You will realize: people are BLIND!
Also remember that there seems to be a lot of riders (mostly on barely street legal "pocket rockets") that either think they are indestructible or have a death wish. Things like:
weaving through heavy traffic at high speeds.
Wheelies in heavy traffic.
Racing at speeds well over 100 MPH down city streets (a year or so ago one of these guys embedded himself into the back of a semi trailer nearby).
Tailgating.
Cutting right in front of you (a few months ago I had a biker cut in front of me then hit the brakes, it took me standing on my brakes to keep from driving right over him).
Squeezing in between two cars in adjacent lanes doing 70 MPH.
Passing on blind curves.
Oh the list goes on.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Comments
It will hit $5/gallon the only question is when.
I can see it at $4/gallon in the next 12 months if only for a short time spike in prices,
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Yeah, it's a'comin. I stopped and filled up my '85 Silverado today...89 octane at $3.199 per gallon. 87 was $3.059 and 93 was $3.299. Fuel economy was a whopping 14 mpg. I felt a little better though, when I passed two vehicles that probably get worse mileage...a Unimog and a farm combine!
Well, okay, maybe a little.
What will I do when it hits $4? Probably just grin and bear it.
It is interesting that Premium has maintained the approximate 20 cents difference. That makes it a lot smaller percentage on a per gallon basis. Almost an insignificant difference on a full tank. A 20 gallon tank of regular @ $3.69 is $73.80 that same tank filled with Premium is only $77.80. If your car gets better mileage with 91 octane it may be worth the price difference. I think I will try a tank full of Premium in my new Sequoia.
:surprise:
I saw $4.10/gallon for premium at a Shell on I-5 yesterday when I was driving back from LA. Regular was $3.80.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I'm sure any car nowadays is "smart" enough to tone down the engine (they used to call it retarding the spark, but it's probably more complicated than that these days) if you put a lower octane fuel in it, so it won't knock and clatter and then diesel on when you shut it off.
However, if the car is designed to run on premium, don't you also lose a bit of economy when the engine dumbs down to run on the cheaper stuff? You might lose performance AND economy. So while you're paying less for the fuel, the reduced fuel economy might cancel out any savings.
If in fact the majority of Smart or MINI owners downgraded their fuel on purpose, and did so regularly, then the manufacturer made the wrong car for the market intended seems to me.
I have no way of knowing if people are actually doing that.
The price of a barrel of oil has gone from 55 bucks last January to over 90 bucks now, which is better than a 64% rise. While the dollar has fallen, it sure hasn't fallen that far.
I've read that in the UK a gallon of petro will set you back more than eight dollars. Now that would be an experience that would cause a yank to pucker up.
I just found this very interesting historical listing...ouch in Europe
Now Oil is ~ $95 / bbl and the US$ is about 1.47 $/E
Let's take a worst case scenario. A big lump of an SUV getting 14 mpg in city driving.
So that's about a $150 fill-up to go 315 miles---that's close to .50 cents a mile to drive somewhere!
For me that would be an annual fuel bill of $7,500.
Right now in my little cars the annual bill is $1,427.00 at a current $3.39 a gallon.
I think I'd move to the city, get a bike and a bus pass and retire.
New house Should be ready in March.
I will be expecting Total savings will be 100 gallons a month including the rest of my family.
Cost to go to work will go from $11-18 a day down to $3.50-5.00 a day.
My 2001 Silverado 4x4 has 19000 miles on it and will once again get used. It will only be $5 a day for gas to take it to work. I recently looked at it's resale value as it sits, and with 60,000 additional miles on it, and the values were the same. I drove it so infrequently for going on 4 years since I changed jobs.
What if I sold the silverado for $15k and got a new Prius for $24k? The Prius would be $1.75 a day to go to work -vs- $5 for the Truck. The $9k more for the Prius divided by the $3.25 a day gas savings would take 12.09 years to the break even point based on 229 work days a year. That would be ignoring the high annual excise taxes on the Prius, the interest on a $9,000 loan for the Prius, and the fact that a new Prius would depreciate faster than a 7 year old Chevy truck.
Fortunately, we hit a low spot on gas prices here ($2.789 yesterday). This same comparison with $4 gas would take the 12 years to break even down to 9 years. With $5 gas starting today, it would go to 7.2 years. If gas goes from $3 to $5 as annual averages over 3 years time, you would still be at about 9 years to break even with a small Hybrid vs a big truck.
This is not a comparison of a new truck vs a new Prius but there's only 19k miles difference.
Now from a national perspective, if using less fuel is the key goal,we have to address, then going to a more fuel efficient system ( or living/driving combo such as you did ) there needs to be some incentives to get people out of less efficient vehicles into more efficient ones. That natural forces of cost will drive a lot of people that way such as the graphiic posted by Mr_Shifty.
But these are two different issues.
How many years will it take for your reduction in gasoline usage to recoup the closing costs? And if your new mortagage is higher than the old one, you'll never get ahead.
Yeah, that probably doesn't make sense from a purely financial standpoint. However, once you factor in other things, quality-of-life type stuff, it might still be worth it. For instance, if you're shaving off 65 miles per day in commuting time, depending on how bad traffic is, that could be 1.5-2 hours per day that's no longer wasted in commuting.
Plus, you could also factor in things like your car not wearing out as often, and such.
Not too bad. I'm currently driving an Audi A4 with a modified two liter engine (about 230 hp and a manual, naturally :P ) and with about 9k miles a year I'm doing better than that
As for the UAV (urban assault vehicles), it's gonna take a lotta pump pain to pry the keys outta their hands. I would imagine that some will opt for a fuel miser and keep the tank for those "Baghdad Walmart" runs.
Like a few of the others on this site, I watch petroleum production and my guess is that the disparity between demand and supply is only going to get worse.
----
Ouch!... I just looked at the link to those Euro gas prices and they are nasty!
However as fuel becomes increasingly important in our daily lives these decisions of where to live may have to be made by everybody. It may even come down to move closer to work or find a new employer closer to domicile or working from home.
http://www.motosindia.com/hero-honda-karizma.html
Engine 4 stroke, Single Cylinder OHC, air cooled
Displacement 223 cc
Max. Power 17.0 PS @ 7000 rpm
Maximum Speed 125 KMPH
Acceleration (Time for 0 to 60 kmph) 3.8 seconds
It's not hard to find places. I believe Montgomery County, MD, also takes them at their Recycling Center.
A motorcycle is not practical as an everyday vehicle for most people.
A motorcycle is not practical as an everyday vehicle for most people.
Well, I'm already listed as an organ donor. Guess one of those could very well speed up the process, eh? :sick:
Looks like a pretty neat around town setup for those that are fortunate enough to live where the weather is more cooperative.
Try going to work on that when its 10 degrees out its snowing with 2 feet of snow on the ground.
Or a day like today when it was 40 degrees and raining.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I am hoping for a close or even trade in houses. The builder of the new one is paying closing costs, the interest rates today are better than at any other time I've ever bought during. The schools are comparable.
Being able to switch back from the Mustang to the Silverado without burning almost $20 a day in gas will be enjoyable.
Good stuff is bigger, better house with warranty, still good schools, almost a day off gained each week (lost driving), back in the Silverado, total gas bill cut in half, avoid buying newer fuel efficient car, avoid selling Silverado for huge loss because I'd never use it, and less maint. work on cars.
Bad stuff is loss of proximity to friends, no longer having 600' to neighbors houses, having to add stuff to house that new ones come without, higher prop taxes, higher car ins for being near city.
Provided, of course (as someone else brought up), you don't get run over by someone on the cel phone, yelling at the kids over the movie playing, or just plain inattentive because their vehicle is bigger than yours (all the time).
So yes, safety is a factor, and you must learn to be cautious and defensive. And not all motorcycle riders have a death wish, but we all do have to be on the lookout for aggressive drivers who don't feel they should have to share the road, and/or inevitably "zoom" right past drivers of vehicles who are less than attentive, which for some, startles them into thinking motorcyclists or motorcycling are/is unsafe.
But the rewards are worthwhile, just ask a motorcycle commuter who learns when to yield, as well as when to zoom. Compared to another car on the road at rush hour, they use less fuel, pollute much less, reduce traffic congestion, and it makes for a nice ride to wherever you need to go.
From 3 different addresses, too.
They're great for city/campus transport, but climate issues plus safety on higher speed roads was a big concern.
Ride a bike for a week. You will realize: people are BLIND!
They never see you.
Organ donor, indeed.
Gimme an Ariel Atom and we'll talk, at least you have some protection.
I loved riding MotoX out in the desert. I would not get on a street bike. I had two MotoX friends killed on street bikes. People just pull out in front of you on a motorcycle or bicycle. I worry about my son in law riding his motorcycle to work every day.
I rode big bikes for over 20 years with nary a scrape. The trick is constant, chipmunk-like vigilance. If it's not another car, it's a hole in the road, sand on mountain turns, wet leaves, manhole covers---you name it.
Seeing how most motorcyclists drive on Hwy 17, it's no wonder they get killed. With rare exception, most drive very recklessly, considering that they will lose in any encounter with a car.
But you keep your head up and eyes peeled, and you're okay on a bike.
Maybe.
You offer good advice, for sure, but people still make blatant errors while driving and if you're in the way...make sure you sign that organ donor card.
Let's see, I was rear ended in my Forester hard enough that it would have killed me if I were on a bike. In my Miata, a Saab pulled out and slammed my side, which on a bike would have pushed me into oncoming traffic, where I probably would have been run over.
I guess I just have bad luck, so no more bikes for me.
To ride when you need to is something else, as in a commute, or a routine you had to adhere to.
Also remember that there seems to be a lot of riders (mostly on barely street legal "pocket rockets") that either think they are indestructible or have a death wish. Things like:
weaving through heavy traffic at high speeds.
Wheelies in heavy traffic.
Racing at speeds well over 100 MPH down city streets (a year or so ago one of these guys embedded himself into the back of a semi trailer nearby).
Tailgating.
Cutting right in front of you (a few months ago I had a biker cut in front of me then hit the brakes, it took me standing on my brakes to keep from driving right over him).
Squeezing in between two cars in adjacent lanes doing 70 MPH.
Passing on blind curves.
Oh the list goes on.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D