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Comments
$2,000 UNDER invoice ???
When many dealers are trying to sell for OVER MSRP ???
Who is this dealer ???
You should switch to the Ford Escort Forum, it would fit your budget better.
Okay, simply for discussion, let's say what you have said is legitimate and you are
indeed not a sales type or dealer or someone simply premoting the vehicle?
Pray tell then, what does this and any other dealer do with a 'used' vehicle when it is returned to the dealership after having been 'used' and perhaps 'abused' over a couple of days and shows
several hundred miles on its odometer? :confuse:
As a customer, would you buy that vehicle even if it was exactly what you wanted as far as the colors and equipment are concerned or would you pass on it and demand a 'new' not 'used' vehicle instead. :surprise:
It has been my experience that only the dealers who would do such a ridiculously risky thing are those dealers that were trying desperately to unload some hard to sell vehicles.
As some examples, the Peugeot diesels or the MBZ 240Ds back in the seventies when you could not give them away. I caught holy h... when I brought back a brand new 240D with 175 miles on it. I got "What are we supposed to do with that car now?"
I did not buy it, but bought another car from them that was the exact color I wanted.
BTW, I lived in Westlake Village CA at that time, a rather high-end community even then,
so there was no question that I should be qualified.
Are the Genesises already in such high supply that some dealers
are resorting to these tatics to unload these V6 models?
Please field that question for us.
GM even had their program advertised a while back; google for "GM overnight test drive" (though that would fit into your "trying to unload" argument).
Cars that are used like that likely end up being put out as service loaners, etc. I'm sure they don't let you pick any color, etc. that you want, just choose from their set aside cars.
While I didn't know if the first guy is shilling for the car, he's not making up that degree of service, as I've seen many a reference to dealers allowing that.
Heck, I was surprised when my local Ford dealer in Iowa gave me the keys to a car and had me take it out for test drive by myself. That never would have happened in California; which is why I say it might be locale as well.
Overnight/weekend test drives are not a big risk to the dealership. For one thing they will generally only have one or two vehicles of each model that they'll let go home. That way if miles are piled on they'll be isolated to just a few vehicles. And if the customer becomes a buyer there's a high probability that they'll take the car they were just driving.
Even if the customer does not become a buyer that day, they have presented a positive experience that can serve to draw the customer back and to make recommendations to others.
Yes indeed, those are the ones sold as demo cars.
And if the customer becomes a buyer there's a high probability that they'll take the car they were just driving.
Which is why they ask you exactly what you're looking for. If they have it, they put you in it to make you fall in love with it.
Vehicle: Genesis 3.8 with all options
Pros
1. Very smooth and powerful for a V6. Lots of usable torque.
2. Most intuitive 6-speed automatic transmission I have driven.
3. Classy and well appointed interior.
4. Good knockoff of I-Drive toggle control. Much better than BMW's own I-drive.
5. Great torsional rigidity. Very solid feel.
9. Whisper-quiet! Great isolation from wind noise.
10. Good heated/cooled driver's seat. Comfortable and supportive.
11. Good navigation system. Not as good as Acura/Honda's.
12. Same with voice acitivated controls. Acura's is much better.
13. Very flat cornering.
14. Good fuel mileage on highway. 30 MPG at 65 MPH; 28.5 at 80 MPH.
Cons:
1. Steering is a pleasure on "perfect" roads but not close to BMW-like on undulating surfaces.
2. Overdone suspension stiffness without the finesse of a BMW. Good, but not quite right. Corner's great but does not think for itself (again ... like a BMW does). Lexus quietness but with a more harsh, "jiggly" ride on imperfect roads.
3. Speedometer reads approximately 3% faster than you are actually traveling. (checked many times using GPS speedometer). I have reported this to Hyundai and they say it is "within tolerance". Not the answer I would have hoped for!
4. They took the cheap way out with the front passenger seat. Heated but not cooled. Only slides forward and backward and reclines. No other adjustments.
5. The jury is still out of the brown leather accent trim on the dash and doors. Not bad but I would have rather it was all black (my car is black on black). My bet is that the V8 will forgo the brown contrasting leather.
Bottom-line:
You should not read into the "cons" above that I do not like this car. To the contrary, I am really impressed overall. Like many of you, I am a car nut and consider myself to be very perceptive when comparing upscale cars. I have owned several Lexus, Mercedes, BMW and Acuras. In many ways, the Genesis stacks up better than most of those. It is just that they still have not quite achieved the intuitive handling of a BMW nor the ride of a Mercedes or Lexus. One last comment: If the 4.6 engine is much of a step up from this 3.8, it will be one heck of a machine. This is the best six cylinder that I have ever owned. I think the "perfect" six-speed transmission has a lot to do with it. I never thought I would own a Hyundai but I am impressed!
Now, you can go ahead and tell me to butt out!
1. A big sack with about $15,000. inside stuffed under the front seat!!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
After I posted my pros and cons, I thought of one more nitpicking "con" that bugs me. My last car (Acura TL) had a much better tire pressure monitor. It showed the exact PSI in each tire (by location). I am so anal that I really like being able to know EXACTLY how much pressure each tire has. With the Genesis, it will tell you that one of your tires has low pressure, but not how much pressure is in each tire. Therefore, I now have to manually check my tire pressure each week.
I was surprised that they invested so much into very sophisticated electronics and took a short cut on the tire pressure monitor.
My Lexus has the analog needle at 60mph (on the dot) but the cruise control reads 62mph. I don't know which one to believe. It's common to be a bit off. I had seen the discrepancy in Honda and Acura as well. The only one I had known to be precise was a 98' Maxima.
Thanks!
My house is a 2,750 square foot split ranch, built in 2005, by my husband. It is custom throughout and sits on a 1/2 acre lot.
It has a three zone HVAC system, whole house air and water filtration system, granite counters in the kitchen and every bath, hardwood floors (real hardwood) throughout, and the very best windows (Peachtree) that money can buy.
It also has a three car, heated garage, and backs up to a 130 acre state maintained nature preserve, with over 25 miles of bike paths, spring fed lakes, and is on a sloping lot, overlooking Georgian Pines and a 7 acre, spring fed pond.
My husband builds custom homes, had his best rough and trim carpenters assigned to the task of construction, and we received excellent pricing on the very best materials money can buy. Do you have a professional grade Viking stove with open flame cooking capabilities in your kitchen or a on-demand, tankless water heater that controls the water temperature digitally?
So where do you live?
http://www.hyundaigenesis.com
Your place sounds like our guest house on our 20 acre wooded lot in the place where Geo. Washington crossed the Delaware river to beat the British in our revolution, but then you wouldn't know that since your from Romania!
33637
1009 tax NC
80 tag/title
589 bs fees
35315.00 Out the door Champ/tan
Fisrt 1k miles avg 24.2 mpg most highway/ 65-75 mph. Thanks to all the contributors on the boards. I hope this helps somebody, this is not a great deal nor a bad deal. It is just the deal. I paid extra for a dealer 2 miles from my house. I was tired of saving a couple of hundred dollars then driving 30 or 45 minutes to the dealer to get service. Yes I like to service the vehicle where I bought it.
My dealership provides a loaner for any overnight repair for our customers, something that can be quite valuable if a person doesn't have family handy or only has one car.
Just throwing that out there. I would think that this is something along the lines of the original poster's thought process.
By the way, I am 6'5" and fit really well. And my road bike, which is huge, fits in the trunk once I take the wheels off. That is really unusual and means no bike rack for me. I am moving from Infiniti FX and am Hyndai's target for this car: owned all the luxury brands in the past, trading away from SUV's poor residual and gas mileage and looking for quality, performance, and value. I am looking forward to making a statement about not paying up for one of the prestige badges.
My impressions of the car:
1) Smooth power delivery
2) Ride a bit cushy; hope the V8 will be more taut
3) Nice fit and finish; better than I expected (one thing to read about it, another to sit in it)
4) Great interior room (front and back)
5) Cool backup camera
Nitpicks
1) Voice activation system needs work; way too slow and inaccurate
2) Only driver seat cooled
3) Uncovered speaker in trunk does detract a bit; passthrough hole is likely only big enough for skis or a few 2x4s.
I think they have a winner on their hands, assuming people can get over the "stigma" of owning a Hyundai. Even the salesman's wife was a "car snob".
My dealer is getting 1 V8 at the end of September, but it's already sold. Said they'd probably get a total of 4 for the remainder of the year. They're declining anything but the Tech package V6's from corporate, since that's all that are selling for them. Have sold 8 so far, 4 others sitting on the lot. Said they hadn't seen much "halo effect" from the car yet, but hoped as the advertising campaign started that people would realize if the $35K Hyundai was good, maybe the $20K Hyundais were good too.
They said they had a $399 lease deal on the base car, but I didn't inquire much further since I wasn't buying.
2008 Audi A6 new
Premium Package
Technology Package
S Line Interior Package
Navigation Package
19" Alloy wheels
Sport Suspension
IPod music interface
Cost=$46,704
5 yr finance 0 down @ .9%=$808 with Audi Financial Services
2009 Genesis V8
Technology Package
Cost=$42,000
5 yr finance 0 down at 5.24%= $797
Judging by the comments of many dealers adding $5k to sticker =
Cost=$47,000
5 yr finance 0 down at 5.24%=$905
Seems like Audi A6 is the way to go !
Also, why do you assume best case for the A6 and worst case ($5k markup over sticker) for the Genesis?
Why not compare the A6 to a loaded Genesis V6 at $35,613 (see post about a page back)?
Looks like you want the A6, so go buy it and enjoy it!
Genesis V6 with Technology Package
MSRP=$40,000
Invoice=$37,363
Lets say average selling price=$38,500
5 yr, $38,500, 0 down, 5.24% APR=$741 month
Audi A6
MSRP=$58,515
Invoice=$54,429
Selling price=$46,704
5 yr, $46,704, 0 down, .9% APR =$808 month
So for an additional $67 more a month, one can drive a Audi A6 vs Genesis V6
So for an additional $97 more a month one can drive a Genesis V8 vs a Audi V6
Lastly its not all about 0-60 and 2 more cylinders.
The Hyundai has a longer warranty and, anecdotally speaking, the Audi is likely to have more issues down the road and cost more to fix when it does break.
Also, while I haven't seen the new A6, I think the Genesis is likely a bigger car inside, so they may be different "size" categories.
One other unknown, if you plan on selling at some point, is the depreciation on the cars. Neither is particularly known for its long-term value retention, but who knows which will be worse.
Though, looking at the MSRP for the Audi, it looks like you're getting a steal of a purchase price at an almost free interest rate. I'm a bit jealous
Tough choices, but hopefully consideration of these points will make your decision less worrisome.
Even at MSRP you would be paying a lower payment than you would on the A6, and in parts of the country you can get 1.90% for 60mo on a Genesis. That would reduce the payment to $734 which is $74/mo less than the A6.
Also, if one considers the possibility of finding $1000-$2000 off MSRP, that would reduce your payment $17-$35 per month further.
Oh yeah, and the $38,500 V6 then becomes $673/mo, a savings of $135/mo. That's $8100 over 5 years!!
I just thought that these additional facts might be worth consideration.
Thanks
When i reported my concern to my local Hyundai dealer, I was pleased that they immediately passed it upstream to their district representatives. The answer came back that two or three MPH difference at 50 to 60 MPH was well within tolerance. When I pointed out that 3% of 60,000 miles would amount to an 1,800 mile short change of the warranty, I was told that the speedometer and the odometer are completely separate and that I could rest assured that the odometer is accurate. I confess to being skeptical but I do not plan to make an issue out of it. Unless the odometer is completely mechanical and the speedometer is electronic, I don't understand why one could be so accurate and the other 3% to 4% off. The next time I am on an interstate trip, I will check the odometer against the mile posts on the interstate over a long enough distance to make it a reasonably valid comparison. Again, unless I find a significant and expensive descrepancy, I do not plan to get all worked up over it.
The lease is so amazing on the Genesis, I bet you could save at least $150 a month leasing as opposed to buying.
So let's say you buy the car, and I lease the car.
4 years down the road, you are driving a 4 year old car, and you are still paying $741 per month. At that point, you have paid in $35568.
4 years down the road, I am driving a car that is 2 years old (because when my 2 year lease was up on the first one, I got another one). For the last 4 years, I have been paying $591 a month. At that point, I have paid a total of $28368, or $7200 less than you, and I am driving a newer nicer car.
And did I mention that in that scenario, at the end of year 4, you are still stuck with your car, and I am just then picking up my 3rd new car, still paying the same thing. How will that feel when we meet at the stop light, and I am in my new 2014 Genesis, and you are in your 2009 Audi? You paid all this extra money to drive an older car, what in the world did you gain at that point?
I know what your saying though, at the end of all your payments you own it. You own what? A 5 year old used car. If you are driving these kinds of cars, you are not the type that is shooting for a 'no payment' situation. After 5 years, you are going to want a new car.
Now you have to sell your car. If you can find a buyer, you may be able to get approximately twice the amount that I saved over those same 5 years leasing as opposed to buying. So let's say you have at the end of 5 years, $20,000 in your pocket (after you sold your 5 year old car), and I have $10,000 in my pocket from the savings I had leasing over buying. I came out the loser right? No, I got something for my money, I drove a newer car for 3 out of those 5 years. Not to mention I was covered by my warranty the entire time. And, I knew exactly what was going to happen with my car.
When you own, you cannot predict how much you will be able to sell your car for, or if you can sell it at all.
Personally, at the end of the day, I would rather save money in the short term, with a known outcome, than 'try' to save more money in the long term, and be unsure as to what exactly will happen. A leased car drives the same, looks the same, smells the same, and feels the same, as a bought car.
Not to mention leasing gets you a newer nicer car along the way, for less money.
Just my opinion.
It has happened to me on two occasions and yesterday it happened to two others.
I have not seen this problem posted on this forum.
Perhaps those that own the tech package should make a point of checking that they have at least one address entered into their GPS address book and then checking to see if it is still there after the next fill up.
First, I think you're being a bit generous in the assumption that 4-5 years from now you'd be able to pay the same on a lease and get a similar caliber car every time.
That being said, having a car that you know the history of in order to hand down, etc. (vs. buying a used car) is something that provides value to people; it's the way things were done in my family.
Also, in this case, 5 years down the road, you'd still be in warranty for the vehicle, so the 2 year switch wouldn't be giving that much extra value. Not to mention that some people worry about going over mileage limits and/or repairing scratches/dings before returning the vehicle.
Not trying to pick apart your argument; financially it makes sense for the type of person who really likes having the newest stuff and who'd like to save money on the monthly payments. I just didn't want the flip side to be mis-represented; namely that people who can afford to buy these things aren't always looking at short term or having a fresh new ride. Especially since body styles shift at a 4-5 year rate anyway. The 2011 Genesis likely won't look a whole lot different than a 2009 one to most people.
What is the website? Thanks.
But, most cars should be treated as depreciating assets and not as investments. Cars are a money-losing deal 99.999% of the time.
There are unknowns, such as the price of fuel. The people that leased their SUVs in 2006 or 2007 will be in much better shape when their leases expire than those who bought and are depending on the trade-in value to fund the down payment of their next vehicle.
PS, I also bought a 1998 Suburban, 1969 Triumph Daytona 500, 1968 Mercury Cougar and still have all of them and my stop sign stops are a blast...... Much more fun than yours I'm sure.
That's catchy, but if you're after the lowest possible cost per mile, you'll buy & hold. Ever notice that almost no recognized authority on personal finance has anything good to say about personal leases? (Business leases are another matter.)
Still, leasing might make sense for this particular car. The Genesis is an unknown quantity - we don't know how well it will hold up or what it will be worth in 5 or 6 years - so a short-term lease might be a sensible way to limit your risk.
But whether you buy or lease, what's the rush? The economic news is bad & getting worse. By January, which is a slow month for car sales in the best of times, all brands of entry-level lux vehicles will be piling up on lots & dealers will be desperate for business. Let the poor dummies who have to be the first on the block with the latest & greatest waste their money now. Prices will only go down.
Every car my family has been a purchase, only getting rid of them when repairs cost more than are palatable (usually 10+ years down the road). We buy the best we can reasonably afford, knowing that it'll be with us a while.
Hope you like your Genesis or your Audi, whichever you decide upon.
First up, was the CTS, a 3.6L DI V6@304 HP. The first test on this course was the “Wet Test”; this was designed to see how well the traction control technology was implemented in the CTS. Although it seemed to work well, it sounded as if there was a lot of commotion occurring underneath the car. It certainly didn't sound smooth or behave as if it was well balanced but it got the job done. Throttle response was good however, but the handling was not as agile, neither was there any spare room in the cabin. Talk about tight interior space!
After the CTS, I drove a Genesis V6 with Tech package, its 3.8L V6 @290 HP was under foot. It passed the “Wet Test” with nary a hint of protest as the traction control kicked in almost immediately and any wheel slippage was instantly buffeted and controlled, so much so, that it was barely perceptible! The handling felt very well balanced and much tighter than the CTS throughout the course! Certainly, the Caddy should’ve been able to manage this much better than the Genesis, since its MSRP is at least $10k more.
Next up was the Mercedes E550, a 5.5 V8 with 382 HP and like the Genesis does not offer Direct Injection. It aced the Wet Test, just as smoothly as the Genesis. The throttle response was excellent and the handling felt superb, especially when throwing it through the angled curves of the course. This car made me smile. However, although it displayed tight and nimble handling, once again because of the relatively tight confines, it left me wanting, as in more room especially for the extra $30k!
Ok, so now, up comes, the Genesis V8, Tech Package, featuring its 4.6L and 375 HP. Save the best for last right? Well apart from the Wet Test, which it once again traversed with hardly a murmur, the throttle was almost equal to the E550, the handling did not feel as tight, but it certainly never felt as if it would slip from under me and wherever I pushed it in the course, especially on the turns, it obeyed, giving me more confidence as it accelerated out of the turns.
The brakes on all were very good, but extra credit goes to both the E550 and the Genesis. I rated the Genesis’ quiet ride and handling to be exceptional. Given the price point of both the CTS and E550, I somehow expected these cars to outdo the Genesis because that is exactly what anyone would expect. Somehow that didn’t happen and that is what the biggest surprise for me is about my experience with the Genesis.
It gives you all this room, tight fit and finish, excellent handling, a luxury ride and yet still delivers value-over-badge. Comparing it to vehicles in the same class, I think the Genesis succeeds at delivering. If I had any doubts about this vehicle it was erased after my test drive experience.
Anyone looking for more than what the Genesis has to offer will need to spend even more. The question is why?
Thanks for the pricing information. This will be helpful as I am close to going in and trying to negotiate a decent deal. I believe you got the Premium Plus package, right? I assume that also includes all the options in the Premium package as well? If so it looks like you got a pretty good deal. I am still contemplating the Technology Package, but that is a lot of money for options that are 'nice to have' but not really needed. Do you remember what the $589 misc fees were for?