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Comments
I read your entire forum through - took me a week - and was sufficiently interested by everything you guys have been saying to take a look at this newcomer, seemingly wanting to challenge the likes of MB, BMW and Lexus.
The dealership I went to had a V6 model on display but that's about as far as I could get in trying to get to know this would be pretender to the throne(s). Get this: The dealership doesn't allow Test Drives!!!
How on earth does Hyundai ever expect to win over supporters of the Top 3 with this alien approach to selling their supposedly premium luxury outsider? Are they afraid of something, so they lock puchasers into a deal before they drive their cars, so they cannot back out by that stage? I would have imagined that, given Hyundai's wanting to break into a segment that is clearly dominated by marques that have stood their ground for many decades, they would be bending over backwards to promote their contender. Not only have I never seen any advertising for this car before (and I'm a petrolhead who spends every spare moment digesting car info), but they believe purchasers will be swayed into their stable just by looking at their car?
Get real, Hyundai. It is this sort of quirkiness and alien behaviour that keeps people like me safely with the big guns - why did I even think of taking a look?
Here we have someone ready to plunk down cash for a LS460 and he can't even test drive the Genesis.
What a JOKE!!
As for the Salespeople I have had mixed experiences.... Some were very knowledgeable and others knew less about the product than me.
Pity - from this forum I might have considered a Genesis seriously. But this initial experience of mine is probably a good indication of what I could expect in owning a Genesis - a don't care attitude that probably carries through to the car itself - forgive me for this emotional statement - I have just never had such a dismissive experience in my life before.
I just received a post card today about a recall on the Genesis. So I called my dealer and told me to bring the car down. Apparently it stated on the post card Hyundai Campaign #T56 and they performed a ECM Update. Did not notice anything wrong before and still drives the same after. They told me they had to update the programming on the Engine Electrical. Just a heads up to all.
They figured it's a faulty ECU from Delphi.
Probably that's what the recall is about.
I couldn't believe what was happening, especially, as I've said before, given the fact that Hyundai is trying to break a new model into uncharted territory. I've never before heard of any private buyer buying a car without driving it first, but maybe this is a new marketing approach that Hyundai is planning to revolutionise the car sales world with?
A different take on the situation might be that this new sales approach is purposely contrived to demonstrate Hyundai's absolute confidence in their product, so much so that they believe that test driving the car will not be a significant factor in the customer's decision making process.
I wonder if any of their marketing executives read this forum, and would care to elucidate the situation?
Sorry to hear this experience has swayed your opinion of an otherwise outstanding car.
Of course the ES is really a luxury Camry and I really liked the Azera better.
So, many dealers have poor marketing and sales people. Ironically when I went in to look at an LS in April, the sales woman gave me the keys to a new 460 and a used 430 and let me go where I wanted to. They did follow up, but not enough discount to trade in Azera. High hopes that Genesis 3.8 will be proven out by 2010/2011.
I think the Genesis will actually get better by getting some of the things that were left off that folks feel it should have. At least I hope Hyundai has their ear to the ground and listening.
Anyway, thanks for indulging my complaining spirit everyone. At this juncture I will bow out of your interesting forum graciously.
Good luck with what the majority of you describe as a truly outstanding car.
It's a shame because I am quite sure he would've loved the car. How a dealership management can allow the position of a salesperson to be reduced to something moronic is beyond me. As a former salesperson, who took it very seriously and understood it req'd extensive time investment for product knowledge, also keeping in mind the realization that every customer is potential lifetime residual income, someone at the Hyundai dealership in Saint John (sales manager) is not doing their job to train their staff. I earned over $100k a year in sales and it wasn't 'easy money'. How do these people get on the floor when they have never done a walkaround on a Genesis? How is it that they can be sent out to the public to sell a $46,000 car and don't even have a clue about the basics of the sales process. Someone isn't getting this.
The Genesis is probably the bargain of the century and Hyundai's objective to enhance their brand image with this product is being destroyed by laziness and the inability of their dealerships to properly train their staff to move the product. It requires a basic understanding of how to work with people and some very serious product knowledge beyond 'it's a V6 with a lot of power'.
I am quite convinced that Hyundai should probably hire me to oversee sales training for their Canadian or regional sales operations. Do they even have such a thing?
My experience was top notch!
Every dealership is an independent franchise and is responsible for their own employees. Some simply choose to care, and some do not.
It is going to (most likely) take a total overhaul of the auto industry to change the way that individual sales staffs operate. I think that maybe an industry wide shift to Saturn-like fixed pricing would allow the people in the individual dealers to quit worrying about negotiations and screaming "we've got the lowest prices and will beat everyone else by $100 dollars" and start thinking about providing an informative and positive experience for their clients.
BTW, Consumer Guide Automotive already has a review on the 2010 Genesis sedan. Is it that close?
The coupe should be on the ground in the spring, but don't expect the 2010 sedan until fall of next year.
By the way, the Genesis "school" is kind of a joke. I went to it, and have been to a bunch of these things. It is nice to get to drive a new car before it hits the dealership, but in terms of real product knowledge, these "schools" are no substitute for doing your homework (I couldn't resist) when the car gets to the stores.
I've been with Hyundai for almost 10 years and have been to every single new model training session that they have offered in that time. I would think that this would qualify me as having a clue.
The training that these sessions offer is so dumbed down that you really aren't getting the kind of info that premium car shoppers are looking for. The people that are going to be able to effectively explain the new-to-Hyundai features on the Genesis are the ones that are actively researching the car, reading the manual and checking out the online news and reviews.
Sorry to have my feathers ruffled mn778, but until I tell you that you don't know anything about your job, I would prefer that you didn't tell me that I don't know anything about mine.
As long as Hyundai continues to settle for mediocrity in dealer quality your father-in-laws experience will be the rule rather than the exception. Building the product is one thing, penetrating the market at the point of purchase is where Hyundai has made the classic blunder.
I was at a dealership looking at their Genesis recently and asked a dealership employee what kind of traffic the Genesis was drawing. He wasn't sure. How could you not be sure? You spend 55 hours a week there, you have just receive a brand-and market-altering product and you're 'not sure'. It gets worse.
I went out to walk around the Genesis they had and there happened to be a middle-aged man peeking in the window of the car. I could tell it was the first-time he had every seen or heard of a Genesis. He was obviously very curious as he walked around the car and was now intent on looking closer. Unfortunately, not one salesman would even open the door and let him inside (why was it locked anyway!?). He then got in his Avalon and drove away after looking at an Azera.
Again, if I was the salesperson, I would've been all over that. He was driving an Avalon, his body language signaled interest, he had time to 'land' and he didnt' need to be 'slowed down'.
Not one of those pseudo-customer service employees, posing as self-employed salesman understood the dynamics of a sale or even understood 'planting a seed', taking time to build a rapport with a potential client, providing the client with strategic product knowledge or 'letting them out easy' if the sale wasn't then and now.
My bet is that the guy will go buy another Avalon, and that is too bad because the Genesis is more than a viable contender. Even more sad is that the guy was in buying mode and not one of those pcse's even saw it. Their and Hyundai's loss!
"I'm not sure" can be interpreted as "bad". That's a universal code.
I'm hoping that Hyundai dealerships have improved since my experience leasing my Azera back in March/2006. It was not good. But I did find one Hyundai dealership in another city that was excellent and that's where I would go again if I decide to pull the trigger on the Genesis. But my experience has been that good Hyundai dealerships are few and far between.
I think if I wait until the 2010 model is released, pricing will stabilize and some of the possible issues found with the 2009 model will be corrected and I think they'll be adding some new features such as adaptive cruise control, etc. I figure they'll have information on the 2010 in about nine months. My Azera only has 20,000 miles right now, so I'm in no hurry. And you never know, come next summer/fall, they may blow out the 2009s by offering a $6,000 discount or so and I'll just decide to get a 2009. Lots of influential factors involved. It's quite a volatile market.
It seem the Azera is suffering because they don't know hot to sell a 25K to 30K car. Much less a $40K one!
A really good salesperson can win you over and possibly cause you to buy something you don't want or pay more for something you do want. With a poor or inexperienced salesperson you are more in control of the transaction and this can work to your advantage.
As a matter of fact I would think that a really good salesperson will recognize the type of person he is dealing with and adapt his behavior to that person. He may appear to be very knowledgeable to some or dumb as a rock to others. Some of these guys and gals are very good at what they do. Some are not.
Just my opinion and I could be wrong.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
It's all about the car... not the salesman, the dealership, or the "experience". I'm a "car guy" and pretty much know more then the saleman before I even set foot in the dealership. When I got my first Saab, for example, the salesman didn't know how to put it into reverse so I showed him. When I test drove the new Vovlo S40 when it first came out the salesman didn't know you could tap the turn signal to make it blink 3 times. For me the salesman is a necessary evil you have to deal with, but in the end it's about the car.
Just my 2 cents!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Dealers spend mega millions for a high tech dealerships with free wifi, cafes, children play areas, etc., etc., to give customers an "experience". Give me a break!
VeraGen
But, the worst experience I had so far was this past weekend. I pulled into a different Hyundai dealership that had 4 Genesis out in front. Now, I am 58 years old, I dress well, and I pulled up in a Cadillac. I told the salesman I wanted to test drive a Genesis. He said "You realize that the Genesis is very expensive. Are you sure you can afford it?" I was a little annoyed, but I said "Yes". Then I said I would like to drive the base model and a Premium Plus to compare the ride on the different tires. He then said " You know there is a big difference in the price, are you sure you can afford it?" Ok, so know I'm really getting annoyed. I told him not to worry about my finances, and could we please get on with the test drives. Well, we drove them and I loved the Premium Plus and the color combo they had. So even though this was not the closest dealer to me I figured I would start negotiations for a lease. I had a check in my pocket, ready to close a deal. I started by telling him I would not pay the $3000- dealer add-on. I also tried to explain that it is a turn-off to me as a customer when a dealer adds on a second sticker, and that alone is usually enough to make me walk. His reply was " Well then, why don't you just walk?" I bit my tongue and continued. I told him I also would not pay dealer fees. He then tore up a piece of paper in a very dramatic way and said " Well I guess your not getting a car here". So I walked away. As soon as I walked out the door, he jumped up from his seat and ran at me. I thought he was going to say something like " Why don't you wait while a get the manager", or "maybe we can work something out". But no, instead he hollers at me " I knew you were a waste of time from the moment I met you".
So, bottom line, I liked the car, but probably will not get one. For those of you who think dealer experience doesn't matter, what am I supposed to think will happen if and when I need service on the car. I can't live in fear of something going wrong with the car and then having to deal with this crap.
BTW, this salesman was about 45 - 50 years old and claimed to have worked there for over 10 years.
Were you expecting a bad dealer experience form the get go? Did you have preconceived notions of Hyundai dealers and their services before you even stepped foot at one? Did you expect to get an amazing deal or have great wiggle room because "it was a Hyundai" that you were purchasing? I'm wondering how much different it would be if you went with the exact same attitude in leasing from another car maker like you did in attempting to lease a Genesis.
BTW: The two Hyundais I bought (2003 & 2006) were the best dealer purchasing experiences I've every had (Fitzgerald Hyundai in Washington DC). I've also never had engine stalling or malfunctioning parts and the only time I had to use their emergency service (5 years/unlimited miles) was for a flat tire (ran over nail) and they took care of that without a hitch.
When in sales, I literally spent hours combing the car and the materials I rec'd from corporate to prepare myself for my 'ups'. This dealership in Saint John lost a sale because he didn't do any of this. He probably figured cars selling cars is 'easy money' and the cars sell themselves. Or it could be that he was just never mentored or trained.
Having worked with people all my life is sales, business and social svcs., the (people) skills req'd to sell a $20k Sonata and a $40k Genesis are not that different. I personally believed that every one of my 'ups' deserved my very best b/c I asked them to fill-out a survey later where I wanted all 10's for the additional $125 I received from Hyundai per car. I always got all 10's. I earned them and asked my clients for them as well as referrals. Over the years I rec'd several job offers from other dealerships, a pharmaceutical giant but eventually started my own business.
The point is 'basics'. You serving people and refine and/or adjust your processes to make the 'sale' completely professional. Take time to listen to your customer and yet exercise 'control' of the process. Find out what your customer wants and needs are and yet use your product knowledge to direct them. Be efficient and yet slow the customer down as a product walk-around takes time and 'everything is sales'. Ask the customer for 10's on the survey but always give them a gift upon delivery. And even after the car is 'burning gas' and down the road, call the customer, while their on the way home and leave a message thanking them for their purchase.
It's hard to employ such things and not make $150,000/year and have loads of return and referral clients.
Well done!
Phone call
Me: Want to drive Genesis & Suburu outback wagon 3.0 R. Do you have in stock
Salesman: after few computer clicks...sure I have it
Drive 30 min to the dealer.
Me: Lets first do the wagon...
So we walk to the lot
Check abou 20 outback wagons...none are 3.0R (3L V6 engine)
Salesman: How about you give me $500.00 and we will get the car for you to test drive
Me: WHAT?
Salesman: Well we dont have it here (No apologies)
Me: OK lets test drive Genesis...I saw one standing outside
Salesman: Are you sure..ITS PROBABLY TOO RICH FOR YOU!!!
at this point manager comes out...tries to imitiall get $500 to get the car on the lot for me to test drive
Then drops the $500.00 to zero
Then he said how about genesis..
At this point I told them I have had enough and left.
On a side note; it somewhat sucks that the Genesis has to be either On or Off. We had to sit with the motor idling the whole time because the Start/Stop button didn't allow for only electronics to be on without the motor.
Maybe I should just post how hard I find it to believe that you had 2 good experiences at Hyundai dealerships. Maybe you just don't ask questions, don't negotiate, and are just grateful someone was willing to sell you a car.
There are 2 ways to make a sale. You can either be informative and polite, or you can use intimidation. It seems to me that the Hyundai dealers I have visited are using the intimidation method.
I have shopped many brands over the last 2 weeks, with my wife, and we have been surprised at how accomodating most delerships were. I am sure it is a reflection of the bad economy and slow sales. Almost all were courteous and several offerred to let us take the car out on our own, without a salesman. A Cadillac dealer even offered to let me take the car home overnight. I didn't, because I didn't want to feel obligated to buy the car. But, I did take it home for a couple of hours to drive my wife around.
Bottom line, I'm glad you had a good experience, but don't assume that yours was typical or that I have some type of agenda against Hyundai. If you read my post, you would see that I said I liked the car so much, I wanted to make a deal right there on the spot. I am not a brand snob, and in fact I have taken some slack from friends and relatives when I told them I was considering a Hyundai,
Week later I went to Heller Hyundai & Ford in Escondido...To make sure that the experince is comparable I decided to wear same clothes, drove in same car (Infiniti I), and around same time (Lunch time on Friday)
I must say that I got extremely good treatment. Salesman was knew the car very well, not pushy, let me drive for however long I wanted to (laster for 20 min). Knew when to speak and when not to speak.
So it a sales person dependent....
Sanjay
I see you're from the DC Metro area (as am I). Alexandria Hyundai, Fairfax Hyundai, Ken Dixon Hyundai have all been great a customer service. Pohanka, which is in my back yard, has a long history of being terrible and I don't even go there. Maybe they've changed, but with the great experiences I've had at Ken Dixon and Alexandria...there's no need for me to go to Pohanka. I also had heard that College Park left a lot to be desired by many folks. With your posting that Fitzgerald offers good customer service...I'll keep that one in mind.
Salespeople are supposed to be like you and me, but then again...they are not. Just because you're a salesperson, doesn't mean you're good at your job or understand what it takes to be good at it. That is why you have great salespeople and then the not-so-great salespeople. Some understand that they must be knowledgable about the products they sell in order to be really good at it. Some take the stance that a customer can find out everything by going online, and let the car sell itself. Those are the very ones that lose sales...regularly.
You've indeed been lucky in not having any problems with either of your Hyundai vehicles. I've had a '02 Sonata that I had for 4 years and put 105k miles on it...loved that car, but needed a bigger one. The Sonata was traded in for my '06 Azera. The Sonata went in for a few various items (all covered by warranty of course), but nothing ever left me stranded. The Azera has been great, the only real problem (which is more of a nuisance) is the airbag light that keeps coming on (hopefully to be fixed when the part comes in).
I too have never had the stalling engine, failing brakes or anything of that nature...not even the suspension problem a lot of Azeras have complained about, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. It wasn't until I found out that they changed parts after initial production began which explains why I don't have the suspension problem and a lot of folks do. I say all this to say, never discount somone else's experience because you don't walk in their shoes to know what they have dealt with. Be thankful that you haven't had the issues you read about and post about your great experiences so someone that lives in this area can see that and possibly go to the same place you did to get that very same good service.
V8's should be hitting any day now. I am supposed to have mine this week and am very excited to have it. Black on tan with tech. I think I am going to get the windows tinted and charge $999 for it..............okay, I'm kidding about the $999 part. $199 actually. Since I am in Arkansas, and that is sort of the middle of the country, I would assume that most other dealers would have their cars pretty soon as well.
I have seen some posts here that maintain some dealers having V8's currently, but when I check the locator, it sayd that there isn't one in the country. Not sure what's up with that.
By the way, you CAN turn on the accys without the motor. Press the start button with your foot OFF of the brake. Press once for the basic radio functions, and press twice for air, windows, moonroof, and everything else. Pressing a third time will turn everything off.
My eyes are starting to cross from 5 hours of Genesis competitive comparisons. I think I need a nap!!
If the stories I see here are true about the "are you sure you can afford this?" questions, I pity the people shopping at those stores. Now, I agree that most of your Accent and Elantra customers probably CAN"T afford a Genesis, but why would you START with that sort of a question? As long as Joe Consumer will sign the docs and a lender will give him a loan, what do you care if he can afford it? A sale is a sale.
All I can come up with is maybe that dealer is having a bunch of WEAK salespeople who don't understand how to explain, in an intelligent manner, the rather complex math of a $36000 car having a higher payment that a $16000 car. I dunno.
One problem with all dealerships is that there are way too many models, option packages, model levels, etc. for them to keep up with. When you factor in that many dealerships carry cars from several manufacturers, it is impossible for sales people to keep up. The high turnover among them only adds to it. Some dealerships have one "internet sales person" for several makes of cars.
Also, people who use sites such as this always know more than 90% of the salesmen out there about the cars. We have researched 4 or 5 cars to the max, whereas they need to know about every new model on the lot plus possibly the used cars.
BTW, I have never sold cars and never would want to.
Thanks for the info though; glad that it's possible.
Try keeping up with several hundred products, with an almost infinite number of configurations, as I and others in my profession do. I don't buy that there are too many models etc. for a new car salesperson to keep up with. They aren't working with customers all the time. They can use that time to research the products they sell. At the least, they can know where to get detailed information, so that when a customer asks a question they don't have the answer to, they can say, "I'm sorry, I don't know the answer to that, but if you have a minute we can go over to my desk and I'm sure I can find the answer for you." I don't think that is asking too much of a car sales professional.
Median Income $59,000.00
Reasons for buying 1) Warranty 2) Price/value Dead Last Reputation of dealer.
So if the customers don't care about the dealers-why should the DEALERS?
I don't think any of these hit on someone who is going to buy a $40,000.00 car. For example, while warranty is important-it is not the top reason someone would look at a 40K car.
http://www.scarborough.com/press_releases/Scarborough%20RAB%20Automotive%20Study- %20FINAL%20B%202.07.pdf
It's on page 20.