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Midsize Sedans 2.0



  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    Right, because cooking chicken in a microwave is way more fun than doing it over hot misquite briquettes in the BBQ.

    Not everything newer is better.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 11,854
    i think you should buy the camry because it's what you really want and i don't care about your safety. :P
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2014 Ford F-150 FX4
  • i think you should buy the camry because it's what you really want and i don't care about your safety.

    Gee, thanks. :confuse:
  • I think I've narrowed it down to an Accord LX-P (classic black color) or a 2011 Hyundai Sonata GLS (Indigo Blue Pearl). Both are similarly equipped.

    It looks like I'll need another test drive on each one to make up my mind.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,906
    Well, add another cog to the Accord's tranny (plus Shiftronic), then add Bluetooth to it, plus some horses under the hood, and then they are getting closer to "similarly equipped". ;)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 11,854
    you are really basing your purchase decision by what someone posts here?
    my advice is do what you want, but you are going to have defend your decision to your neighbors if you buy a toyota..
    i have stayed with ford through thick and thin, but that is the way i am.
    same way with the yankees, but now i get to gloat a bit there too. ;)
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2014 Ford F-150 FX4
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    edited March 2010
    One nice thing, though, is that manual transmission Toyotas don't have the issue(or it can be dealt with instantly several different ways). So you can get a used 4 cylinder Camry with manual in it for a near GM price soon because the other 95% of the Camrys will be worth almost nothing.

    P.S. The topic here says "Midsize Sedans". It doesn't say "Entry Level Midsize Sedans". So mentioning the wisdom of getting a medium-sized premium or sports sedan a couple of years new versus a midsize economy sedan wasn't out of place.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    Uh, if you look to the top of this page you will find a line that says "what is this discussion about" and it will show a list of cars. Those same cars are shown to the right. Now the conversation is not limited to just these cars because that is all Edmunds has room for. Example, the Legacy is not there but it is still a moderate priced midsize sedan. There are are other forums that specifically discuss entry level luxury cars or luxury cars like Acura, Infiniti, BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, Porshe etc. There are also sports car type forums.

    Don't quite know how to explain it any different or make it any easier. Of course mentioning that there may be some wisdom to buying a CPO luxury car in the same price range as one these new midsizers is fine. It's just when the conversation starts comparing the Boxter to the RX8, etc. etc. etc. that it is really boring for people not coming here for that discussion. Believe me, most of the people that are frequent poster on this forum actually are buying these same cars you call soul-less jellybeans.

    Like I said, I'm not a host so what I say doesn't really matter. I'm just letting you know what the discussion has been about for years and there are reasons that we try to stay on topic. Otherwise it just becomes a jumbled mess.
  • andyfromvaandyfromva Posts: 79
    edited March 2010
    Here are the financing deals available in my part of the country during March for the cars I'm interested in (60 month financing).

    2011 Hyundai Sonata

    Honda Accord, Nissan Altima

    Toyota Camry, Ford Fusion, Chevy Malibu

    Naturally the car that interests me the most has the highest interest rate. :(
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    CPO luxury

    It wasn't a CPO e-lux-sedan that was being referred to. It was a private party sale. A CPO would have been a different story.

    As far as soul-less jelly beans, you know, no one has to defend anything. When someone on this board gives me the money to buy a car, I'll defend it. Until then...
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    0% is very attractive, although you have to live with the yourself and car.
  • tallman1tallman1 Posts: 1,874
    Gee, busy day. I'm just getting back to read the posts here.

    plekto pretty much summed up the ease for some of us to drive a stick in traffic. I just find coasting easier than holding my foot over the brake. I realize (and accept) that others don't feel that way.

    Perhaps you misunderstood my post. I was talking about the numerous people who say that they would get leg cramps if they drove a manual in traffic. My point was that you use your right leg a lot if you drive an automatic but no one ever complains about cramps.

    Again, I totally understand that most people prefer automatics. I'm not forcing anyone to do anything nor am I putting anyone down. I also read through all the latest posts on the subject and can't remember any that sounded snobbish. :)
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    My point was that you use your right leg a lot if you drive an automatic but no one ever complains about cramps

    I think I did misunderstand. I thought you were kind of kidding. I guess the amount of pressure that one has to put on the brake and gas pedal when you're creeping along at 0-5mph is miniscule compared to pushing the clutch in and holding it in for long periods of time. I don't think it was a matter of being used to it because up until that point most of my previous 15 cars or so had been sticks. So I had a pretty strong left leg if you follow me. But after several long traffic jams it was definitely my left leg that felt like a limp noodle each time.

    It really wasn't the latest posts I was referring to. There have been several long discussions on this topic over the last couple of years and they all end up the same and there have been some pretty obnoxious comments regarding the use of slushboxes. So I guess I was trying to head something off at the pass so to speak. Not a big deal for me. Sorry if I offended anyone.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,018
    I don't think it was a matter of being used to it because up until that point most of my previous 15 cars or so had been sticks. So I had a pretty strong left leg if you follow me. But after several long traffic jams it was definitely my left leg that felt like a limp noodle each time.

    Exactly. Holding a clutch takes a lot more force than holding the brake or gas. And again we're not talking about slow traffic, we're talking about stop-n-go for 2 hours straight (at least I am). Even though I shifted to Neutral and stretched my left leg a lot it was still killing me. And at that point I had been driving a stick daily for 14 years or so.

    If it doesn't bother you guys - fantastic. Just don't tell us what we didn't experience.
  • tallman1tallman1 Posts: 1,874
    There have been several long discussions on this topic over the last couple of years

    heh-heh, and on the Future of Manual Transmissions thread.

    There really isn't much point arguing about someone's personal preference. I've seen folks get obnoxious about a lot of things (there's a reason there's a 2.0 in this title.) ;)

    Sadly, the manual option in the midsize segment is fading fast. :cry:
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    edited March 2010
    Unless it's literally gridlock, you can easily let a little lag develop so that you can creep in first gear for hundreds of yards or even miles at a time.

    Watch a big rig do it sometime. Shifting is the last thing they want to do. The idea is to stay in gear for as long as practical and keep it as steady as possible. So they creep along. You think the clutch in your car is rough? Try 12 hours a day with one of those things. There's a reason they avoid shifting like the plague. If you drive like this, which is initially completely counter-intuitive for most people, you let the engine compression act as the brakes and almost never touch either except to quickly change between first and second gear and back.(my gearing is a TAD too short to stay in first 100% of the time). Rev up, rev down. Gas pedal only.

    Los Angeles traffic jam. The last one I was in a week or so ago I counted and shifted a whopping eight(8) times. 4-5 miles and 8 total times. I just don't see what the issue is. But It did take me years(I'll admit...) to figure out that driving like an automatic was the exact wrong thing to do with a manual. It really IS a totally different animal compared to the same car with an automatic.

    Yes, I know some people get all angsty about the topic and car allowed, but it says "size" to me and not function. Therefore ANY midsize 4 door vehicle should apply. And some used cars are worth considering, to be honest. (used vs CPO is another discussion of course)
  • syitalian25syitalian25 Posts: 303
    Plus 2.9% interest on $23000 is still less than 0% interest on $28,000.
  • syitalian25syitalian25 Posts: 303
    not to mention 100k powertrain warranty, and I am pretty sure the Accord costs most too?
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,906
    Also, what are you actually paying for that reduced interest? Usually you can get a rebate OR lower interest. Say you can get 3.9% from your local bank/credit union, or from a lender the dealer has lined up (I know that is possible, from recent experience) for 60 months. It might be better financially to take the rebate vs. the automaker's lower rate--and consider your financed amount will be less, and sales tax will be less also.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,906
    waiting to go to my local auto show this weekend. Can't wait to check out all the mid-sized cars (and some others). It will be my first close-up look at the Kizashi, LaCrosse, and Regal, and also of the refreshed Fulan and Altima (at last year's show, they had the 2010 Fulans all locked up). Also hope they have a 2011 Sonata GLS there, as I haven't seen that trim yet.

    I see to the right that the 2011 Camry is listed. Is that model out yet, already?? Any changes? I am curious to see what kind of traffic the Toyota exhibit has this year. Usually it's one of the biggest displays, and full of people.
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    I used to do it in Chicago, Try as I might though to keep it in gear, some [non-permissible content removed] would always zip in front of me and hit the brakes. Makes it hard to keep from holding in clutch. You know if people would just learn patience and keep a good distance from each other, and stay in their flippin lanes, traffic would move so much better and driving a stick wouldn't be such a chore. I would rather move at a steady 10-20 mph, than stop go up to 30 for a few moments and stop again.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    edited March 2010
    I am curious to see what kind of traffic the Toyota exhibit has this year. Usually it's one of the biggest displays, and full of people.

    If it's like the recent Syracuse Auto Show that happened the weekend after Super Bowl, it'll be quiet.

    Toyota had the largest square-foot area at the show, with fifteen different vehicles. The only people there were local dealer salespeople staring at their literature or the floor, trying to keep themselves occupied. The general public was huddled in the Ford and Hyundai sections next to them. Both had half the area of Toyota's display, but had at least three times the foot traffic at any given time.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 8,018
    When I say stop-n-go,it was mostly stop, so yes - it was gridlock. Happens a lot in Atlanta. If traffic had been moving enough to keep it in gear moving slowly then I would have done that. Like I said - I drove manuals for years, in traffic and normally it wasn't a problem. This was an exception but it's one I did not want to repeat.

    Nobody is suggesting that you can't drive a stick in traffic or that you should switch to autos so I don't understand why you keep harping on it.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    It's less over three years by $2100, assuming you are buying strictly on price and assuming the figures for the cars the op will purchase is correct. Other than that you still have to live with the car.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I agree with you. I drove a manual for 12 years and had enough. I would buy a car, a BMW, as a second car with a manual, but my daily driver will never be an manual.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    and sales tax will be less also.

    I think in a lot of states you pay sales tax on the total sales price before the rebate comes off. Could be different in OP state though. Just a thought.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    Take a close look at the Kizashi o/s rear mirrors(size) and the huge S emblem in grill and on steering wheel. Look at the fonts on the radio display. Interested in your take. Also check out the interior cubbies or lack thereof in the Lacrosse. Might be just me but it seemed like there was hardly anyplace to store stuff besides under the armrest. Also interested in your thoughts on the interior of the upgraded Altima. I think they raised their game a lot. No other assignments. Have a great time at the auto show. I did in Chicago.
  • jimbresjimbres Posts: 2,025
    Until now, I've been largely indifferent to Subaru, but I find the new Legacy sedan very attractive. I've ridden in a friend's new Outback & was impressed by its roominess & composure. (My sister, who lives in New England, has an older Outback that I drive whenever I visit her, so I'm familiar with the previous generation.)

    Since I'm a sedan guy, I'd go for the Legacy over the Outback. And although I'm a bit of a manual tranny bigot, I'd confuse friends & enemies alike by opting for the 3.6 liter 6, which can be had only with an auto.

    Is anyone else attracted to this car? I'll give the new design at least a year to season, so I won't make any move before 2011 at the earliest.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    I've been much more taken by the previous version (2005-2009/10) version of the car, especially in 4 cylinder turbo form. I really regret not getting the Legacy 2.5 GT wagon instead of our 2.5i wagon. At the time, both were available with a manual transmission to boot. Prior to 2005, I didn't care for the styling of the Legacy sedan or wagon at all. I also really have no warm fuzzy for the Outback, which is basically a passenger car with goofy tires and a jacked up suspension.
    I do think the previous generation Legacy GT sedan is yet another car I should have purchased instead of the '07 Accord. Ah buyer's remorse :P
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,174
    edited March 2010
    I liked the Legacy a lot when sat in it at the Chicago auto sale recently and I also like the looks when I see one on the road. Since I'm still very gunshy of CVTs(probably just old fashioned) I like the combo of the 3.6 with the regular auto. Wish it got a little better mpg and a little more oomph for a V6 but still a great looking, feeling and solid auto. The interior upgrades w/ leather, nav etc really push the price but also the ambience up to "near" luxury feel.

    The interior of the old Legacy was just too tight feeling in the shoulder room for me and the interior quality was a little lacking.
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