Midsize Sedans 2.0

ab348

sda said:

I had the opportunity to drive a new 16 Fusion SE 2.0 recently. I really liked how it drove, good ride and handling, quiet, comfortable handsome interior and good zip from the 2.0 ecoboost. Only thing I didn't really care for is the reduced visibility looking out of the car. The windshield pillar is fairly large, and it is a little hard to see out the back, but nothing like the HHR that I had some years ago.

Funny thing. On the weekend an acquaintance was test-driving midsize cars and one of the choices was the Fusion SE. He absolutely hated it, especially the seats. He liked the new Malibu quite a bit but had reservations about the 1.5 turbo engine.

sda

brian125 said:

sda

Thought's on 2013 Accord........... VS........... 2016 Fusion . Ride , Handling, Size, Refinement, features, visibility, layout ?

Your EX Accord is a 4cyl. Thoughts comparing to Fords 2.0

I do have an EX and it has been one of the best cars I've owned. I wanted to drive a Titanium but they didn't have one. This was a loaded SE with everything except AWD and sunroof. So it had a richer feel inside, I think mainly because of the leather, which had a nice look and feel. The interior felt snug compared to the Accord, and as I mentioned visibility out was not as good either. Had good door mirrors and back up camera, so that helped. Good feature content. Memory and heated seats, upgraded audio, etc. Though it didn't feel overwhelmingly more powerful than the Accord, it did have a little more kick when you jumped on the pedal. There is something about a turbo in that they feel like they have an endless amount of torque which makes acceleration seem effortless. I prefer the traditional feel of the Fusion's 6 speed auto over the Accord's CVT, however the CVT is great when driving up and down hills, grades on the highway. It never hunts for gears, just modestly and seemlessly adjusts engine revs to maintain driving speed. The Fusion had a more supple ride, less stiff, but still firm. It was quieter as well. At highway speeds there was faint wind and tire noise. In the Accord I hear more pronounced wind noise around the driver's window and depending upon road surface, road noise.

[Deleted User]

roadburner said:

I don't have a problem with people buying new- heck, it's their money. My point is that you can't make an economic case for buying a new car and flipping it every 3-5 years.

Why not? People replace their phones every 6 months for a new phone that has maybe 2 new features. I saw an ad on Cable (Yes, I am a Settler, LMAO) for X' new phone that a motorcyclist was using as his Speedometer/HUD,
OMG... I have been doing that for 2 years on my Galaxy s3.I just mount it on my Optima's windshield in any color I want and it has a lot of great features like blinking when I go over whatever limit I set-up and set which color and font size for it to flash. I have not had a ticket since I have been using it, and not having to take my eyes off the road is priceless. HUD displays should be standard on all cars.

back to the stupid keep-up-with-the-Johnsons-phone. I have many times compared it to thee new ones and the core features have not changed at all. 99% of new phones still have 16gig internal memory and 2 gigs ram. So does my 4-5 year old phone. It is no thicker than the newer ones....and a wider one would not fit my custom car windshield bracket (so it doesn't bounce around....it stays dead still, even on a gravel road), or fit in my cell phone jacket pocket as well. All the while iPad/Surface touchscreen type dealy sales are down 30%. I used to take mine to church so I could use bible app, but my phone is much easier to carry and has the same thing.

Sorry to go off topic a bit here....but it applies to cars. I don't need a new car or a need new cell phone.Those are want's. I need food, gas, clothing and to financially support 3 daughters, Then on to A/C fliters changed, gutters cleaned and home pest inspections and pet checkups....not another car payment or $400 cell phone purchase bill. ,,,,and while I am ranting, if you live in the city, almost any cell carrier will work fine. I have never felt the need to Leave Virgin Mobile unlimited plan for $35 a month.No drpped calls, no missed texts, nothing. Maybe it is because they use Sprint's network.

[Deleted User]

Mr_Shiftright said:

Urban Dictionary defines a hootie (or hoopty). Pretty funny:

"Any car that meets the following: a) driver must enter car through passenger side b) three different brand and size tires - 3 of them missing hubcap c) exhaust is held up by half a clothes hanger - other half replaces the antenna d) backfires every three blocks - loudest backfire being when car is turned off e) must open door at drive-threws as windows don't roll down f) you only get one AM station and the tape deck eats all tapes inserted g) can't open the glove box as the whole thing will fall out h) if you let go of steering wheel while driving you'll make a u-turn i) must manually move blinker lever up and down as it no longer blinks on it's own j) must keep one foot on brake and one on accelerator when at a complete stop k) has had the same temporary registration sticker in the window for the last 18 months l) has all the above issues but still has a $200 professional tint job

What is a "Tape - Deck? I am not familiar with this device..... ..and I agree about the tires, except in the DMV/DC are here there would be $3000 worth of rims and tires on this car, but like you said all will be different brands and sizes, most of which will not fit under the the wheel well.

akirby

cski said:

roadburner said:

I don't have a problem with people buying new- heck, it's their money. My point is that you can't make an economic case for buying a new car and flipping it every 3-5 years.

Why not? People replace their phones every 6 months for a new phone that has maybe 2 new features.

The point is that in both cases you're spending money, not saving money by buying a new one. So you can't make a case that buying a new car ever 3-5 years is cheaper than keeping one longer than that.

[Deleted User]

wayne21 said:

Last week I went car shopping with a friend of mine for a day. He was interested in a midsize sedan and we looked at sonata, optima, accord and camry (all day allowed for). I've owned a couple of Hondas and a couple Toyotas but never a Hyundai or kia. I currently own an acura. Before going with him I told him he couldn't go wrong with Honda or Toyota. After going with him and riding/driving each of those cars, I would rank those cars in this order: optima, sonata, accord and camry.

Yes, Please tell us why you ranked them that way. It isn't very often the Optima is number one on anyone's list (except for looks inside and out). Other than that there are still not many people that completely trust Kia.

[Deleted User]

stickguy said:

I delivered my BIL and SIL to the airport this weekend (about a 45 minute ride). When she got in, made a comment about it being huge in the back seat of the same sonata. It really is like a baby limo, even sitting behind me.

Oh yeah, that's why I am hanging on to mine. Even with my 6'2" 260 Frame and the seat all the way back I have never had anything but positive remarks on my Son-optima back seat room, especially leg room. I think it is why my car is so long.

[Deleted User]

"Only thing I didn't really care for is the reduced visibility looking out of the car. The windshield pillar is fairly large, and it is a little hard to see out the back"

Welcome to mid-size 4 door sports car sedan styling.The Accord and Camry have always seemed to impress folks here on the site with visibility. I got used to sitting in my tank, except for the rear quarter visibility.

[Deleted User]

brian125 said:

Wayne

Have your friend check out the Subaru Legacy very nice ride with rave reviews all around but underpowered motor. Probably wont matter much if a 4cyl is your friends choice.

The Mazda 6 does handle better than the 4 vehicles you mentioned but what I noticed when I test drove the Mazda 6 was to much road noise, worse than the Accord. Mazda6 ingress / egress is terrible for anybody close to 6'. its smaller contoured cock pit and awful front seating gets 2 thumps down.

For the average Joe the 2016 Sonata is a great family hauler with above tech and safety features. For a sharper sportier look the Optima is right there.

I drove the 2015 Mazda6. It had leather but I forgot the the trim. I think it was the middle option called Touring..like mine. Ingress and egress were so comparable to my Optima that I failed to notice. It had a loud intake growl at low RPM's and at those speeds was quicker than mine...until about 60. Both being Automatics, 2.4 to 2.5liter's (same size pretty much except on paper), and both being the same color with the same options, I would have a heck of a time choosing,.... except when it came to the back seat and the quality of the interior trim. On the things you can't see....handling, zoom zoom, whatever..it had a stiffer ride and was less comfortable; but it turned and steered waaaay better than mine. Still, my trans is smoother, I have more power at higher RPM's, and a far longer warranty. Looks wise, my kids said "It looks just like your's daddy". They are pretty much right.

benjaminh

Top 8 bestselling cars in April.....(more soon)

Civic 35,331

Camry 34,039

Corolla 32,111

Accord 31,526

Altima 28,484

Malibu 21,763

Fusion 20,730

Sentra 19,145

http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html

stickguy

Civic seems to be a hit. And Honda moving a lot of sedans. As is Toyota.

akirby

It takes decades of repeat buyers to get to Civic/Camry/Accord sustained volumes without resorting to huge fleet sales and big discounts.

benjaminh

midsize/full-size car sales in April....

Camry 34,039

Accord 31,526

Altima 28,484

Malibu 21,763

Fusion 20,730

Sonata 15,211

Optima 11,224

200 7,591

Passat 5,629

Legacy 5,591

Mazda6 3,929

benjaminh

compact/midsize sales

Civic 35,331

Corolla 32,111

Sentra 19,145

Focus 15,983

Cruze 14,153

Elantra 12,361

Mazda3 10,772

Jetta 10,694

Forte 9,740

Impreza 4,836

Dart 4,392

stickguy

I'm surprised ford doesn't sell more.

akirby

Focus needs updates including a new transmission but that has to wait for the move to Mexico and an all new platform. Civic has really raised the bar.

stickguy

maybe. but there are so many Ford dealers, and still large domestic preference areas, that I thought they would move more. Heck, Nissan can sell lots of Sentras!

Sandman6472

The auto tranny in the the Ford Focus absolutely sucks! Can't say it any other way. The 2015 models did address the problem but without much luck. Working for Hertz, I drive so many makes and models and to be honest, the biggest surprises have been the Optima and Sonata to be honest. The Fusions drive nicely but the Korean cousins are really so much better, really is a no brainer.
The new Civic is a hoot to drive also. Our store picked up about 25 new ones last month and our group of drivers got to pick them up from the dealer. If one can get past the looks of the exterior, an excellent choice for a small econobox. The new Elantra is really nice and expect the new Forte to be just as nice. Hyundai/Kia seems to have really been listening to what the public wants and reminds me of Honda/Toyota from the mid '80's through the 1990's, they just seem to be making vehicles people want to buy!!

The Sandman

stickguy

I am curious to see what trim levels come out next year on the turbo Civic with a stickshift. They have said there will be some. Hopefully not just like the base engine, and only on a strippo version.

the other problem (and I don't think this is just a Honda issue) is the fancy nanny tech doesn't work with the stick. specifically, the auto brake stuff you can't get (and that is bundled with all the other bits and pieces).

and of course, Honda somehow decided that if you want a stick, it can only come in black/black or gray/black.

I did not find the Accord CVT to be a bother when I test drove them, but have never tried it in a civic. Next year, definitely on the list to try!

zandor

CVT just feels different. It works just fine; some people just don't like change. I drove a Dodge Caliber with a CVT (rental car) back in 2008. So CVT + 8 years ago + POS model. The CVT felt different, but it was no problem. No way I'd ever buy a Caliber though. Old people who don't like change are the least of the Caliber's problems.

benjaminh

One vehicle that fits into the compact/midsize segment is the VW Golf. It's really a whole family of cars that includes the Golf, Golf Sportwagen, GTI, e-Golf, and Golf R. As we know, the "midsize" category according to the EPA means a vehicle needs to have total combined cargo and passenger room of 110 cubic feet. Total US sales last month for the whole Golf family came to 5108, down 7% from last year.

The standard 4-door Golf has passenger room of 93.5, and then has a comparatively huge 22.8 cargo area (a big increase from the last generation). The list price for the base model with the auto transmission is a fairly reasonable $21,275. The Golf 4-door is 167.5 inches long, compared to 182.3 inches for a Civic. But the Golf is rated 29 mpg combined, compared to 35 for a Civic. Even at today's low gas prices that comes to about $200 a year.

VW plans to come out in the next year or so with a more advanced 1.5 turbo, which should be able to match the mpg of the current Civic turbo.

Sales of the regular (non-GTI etc.) Golf have been weak this year. Only 1,104 regular Golfs were sold last month, a decline of 36% from last year. This year Honda will sell probably almost 400,000 Civics, but at the current rate VW will sell less than 15,000 Golfs this year. The Jetta is maybe a closer comparison, and they'll probably sell c. 120,000 or so Jettas this year.

The Golf to me has a certain cache just because it is so rare.....Although the model I like best is the Golf Sportwagen. 1,012 new Sportwagens found new homes last month, a decline in sales of 17% from last year.

akirby

How could you trust anything VW says does or sells?

andres3

benjaminh said:

One vehicle that fits into the compact/midsize segment is the VW Golf. It's really a whole family of cars that includes the Golf, Golf Sportwagen, GTI, e-Golf, and Golf R. As we know, the "midsize" category according to the EPA means a vehicle needs to have total combined cargo and passenger room of 110 cubic feet. Total US sales last month for the whole Golf family came to 5108, down 7% from last year.

The standard 4-door Golf has passenger room of 93.5, and then has a comparatively huge 22.8 cargo area (a big increase from the last generation). The list price for the base model with the auto transmission is a fairly reasonable $21,275. The Golf 4-door is 167.5 inches long, compared to 182.3 inches for a Civic. But the Golf is rated 29 mpg combined, compared to 35 for a Civic. Even at today's low gas prices that comes to about $200 a year.

VW plans to come out in the next year or so with a more advanced 1.5 turbo, which should be able to match the mpg of the current Civic turbo.

Sales of the regular (non-GTI etc.) Golf have been weak this year. Only 1,104 regular Golfs were sold last month, a decline of 36% from last year. This year Honda will sell probably almost 400,000 Civics, but at the current rate VW will sell less than 15,000 Golfs this year. The Jetta is maybe a closer comparison, and they'll probably sell c. 120,000 or so Jettas this year.

The Golf to me has a certain cache just because it is so rare.....Although the model I like best is the Golf Sportwagen. 1,012 new Sportwagens found new homes last month, a decline in sales of 17% from last year.

The Golf is a premium car. It isn't designed to compete with the Civic, although if Honda has really improved them that much, maybe they are worth another look. Part of the decline in sales is due to the current blockade on selling TDI (diesel) equipped Golfs.

berri

How could you trust anything VW says does or sells?

Looks bad now, but it will blow over rather quickly I expect. Look how relatively short Ford took hits on the exploding Pinto's or their big cruise control recall that included vehicle and garage fires. The latter included all kinds of Fomoco vehicles including trucks, but annual sales didn't really get all that affected. Americans tend to have short memory focus.

m6user

Or the toppling Ford Explorers. Audi and Toyota accelerator problems, Hyundai fishy horsepower and fudged MPG numbers, Honda and others air bags, Toyota sludge, Honda trannies, Mazda rust, Chrysler just about everything. We have gotten kind of use to it.

Mr_Shiftright

I don't think VWs reputation will be hurt long-term, but I do believe that "diesel" is going to remain a dirty word for some time.

akirby

Long term I agree, but I was talking about now. Knowing what they did, how could you be sure they haven't cut other corners as well including safety features/crash protection?

m6user

Same way you can believe Ford fixed their Explorer rollover problems and Pinto exploding gas tanks and won't cut corners in the future.  They pay a big price so one assumes they have learned their lesson.

ab348

m6user said:

Same way you can believe Ford fixed their Explorer rollover problems and Pinto exploding gas tanks and won't cut corners in the future.  They pay a big price so one assumes they have learned their lesson.

Funny, those incidents do not affect my opinions of Ford as much as does the experience of people I know with recent Ford models. They have had lots of quality issues over time, maybe not as immediately bad as with Chryslers but still not good. Ford continues to use some cheap-looking interior materials, which makes me wonder about the quality of things I cannot see.

akirby

Explorers were no more prone to rollovers than other vehicles. But I'm sure we can't have a logical discussion about the facts.

brian125

Ford admitted problems with Explorer Roll overs from 19991 to 2001 and paid the law suit claims.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ford-settles-explorer-rollover-suit/

m6user

My point was Ford got slapped and learned their lesson just like other manufacturers have for major problems. Don't be so defensive as it was well known that Explorers were more prone to rollover than others. I've owned several Fords and had pretty good,luck with them. My first car was a Falcon. I also had a 68 Mustang and a 1973 Pinto. Luckily I didn't get rear ended in the Pinto and it was my last stick shift. Pretty much drove GM through the 80s and 90s.
I would have no problem buying a Ford now but I just don't care for the interiors and the infotainment systems and controls. Exterior styling on the Fusion ranks just one notch below the Mazda6 IMO.

berri

I think it is feasible to argue that GM is on the way to passing Ford up again on everything but maybe pick up trucks. Ford is ahead on turbo's, but they seem to consume too much fuel compared to competitors. Actually, Ford seems to be lagging in overall drivetrains compared to the competition whether turbo or conventional (trannies and engines). Ford used to lead in seating and interiors, but not so much today. Ford was an initial leader in cockpit electronics, but My Ford/Synch seems to have fallen behind some other alternative makes. It seems like I'm reading and hearing more and more quality complaints regarding Ford vehicles recently. Maybe they need to get Mulally back involved because to me at least, they seem to be devolving from the gains they recently made in product leadership. Sure profit is up, but the market in general is in an up stage. What happens next downturn? And don't forget that in the not too recent past too much cost cutting got Detroit in trouble after some high profits from it initially.

ab348

berri said:

Ford used to lead in seating and interiors, but not so much today. Ford was an initial leader in cockpit electronics, but My Ford/Synch seems to have fallen behind some other alternative makes.

I would argue that Ford never led in interiors. Even going back to the 1960s, Ford interiors were always behind those of others, while more recently even Bill Ford admitted that their philosophy was more about making interiors "cheap and cheerful" than anything else. As for Sync, it was so bad early on that they had to apologize and promise to make it better. By the time they did that, others had passed them by.

akirby

Explorers were LESS prone to rollover than Chevy Blazers. The government even concluded that in their testing in 2001. Ford had some blame with tire pressures - it's not worth debating more than that. People win lawsuits against companies because juries are sympathetic not because of the facts. In 2005 a drunk driver lost control and rolled an explorer ejecting the passengers who weren't wearing seatbelts. Ford lost a $31M lawsuit because they didn't use laminated safety glass in the doors that the plaintiffs claim would have kept them in the vehicle. Ridiculous.

akirby

Ford has great engines from a performance standpoint - fuel consumption is still not stellar. And if you haven't looked at a Ford interior lately (especially a Titanium) I think you'll be surprised. However, interiors are completely subjective and mostly personal preference once you get past basic material quality.

suydam

I'm not a Ford person and wouldn't buy one, but I thought the interior of the Fusion hybrid is pretty sharp.

stickguy

I put them on my list but the wife refuses. Not sure why, since she really is not a car person. I would have to hide the blue oval. Not sure if it came from ger father. He was a Chevy guy, and she refuses to look at them too!

akirby

I feel the same way about Chevy/GM. Seems you're either in one camp or the other. Same with Toyota and Honda. A lot of it does come from family/past history. Before buying our 2016 MKX we looked at every similar vehicle at the auto show and we just didn't like any of them as well as the Edge and MKX.

roadburner

akirby said:

Ford has great engines from a performance standpoint - fuel consumption is still not stellar. And if you haven't looked at a Ford interior lately (especially a Titanium) I think you'll be surprised. However, interiors are completely subjective and mostly personal preference once you get past basic material quality.

I normally love cloth interiors, but the material used in the base Mustang GT was just awful; I probably would have bought a base GT with the Perf. Pkg. and Recaros were it not for the interior.

suydam

I don't think it's the same with Toyota and Honda. I know a lot of people, including me, who have variously owned both depending on their wants/needs at the time.

akirby

We owned several Hondas before we started buying Fords. I think there are lot of Toyota only buyers and Honda only buyers. But obviously there are a lot of folks who aren't tied to a particular brand.

akirby

roadburner said:

I normally love cloth interiors, but the material used in the base Mustang GT was just awful

But a lot of that is simply personal preference. To you they're awful - to others they're probably fine.

stickguy

I prefer cloth too. Just haven't had one in a long time.

ab348

stickguy said:

I prefer cloth too. Just haven't had one in a long time.

Odd thing with automotive cloth. Ued to be that cloth was standard in most models, and as you went up the scale in models it was better quality cloth with better stitching patterns and ornamentation. Somewhere along the way that seemed to go away and we are left with either mouse fur fuzzy cloth or burlap. Part of the problem is, I suppose, the lack of color choices offered now as opposed to back then. A nice blue or green or red cloth interior could look very pretty. It is hard to make a dark gray or black burlap interior look good. There is nothing inherently wrong with a cloth interior done correctly. It is just that very few automakers do that.

roadburner

akirby said:

But a lot of that is simply personal preference. To you they're awful - to others they're probably fine.

No, they are bad; the seats in my 1999 Wrangler Sahara are upholstered with better material. And they also look better- even after 17 years.

benjaminh

Honda and Toyota dominate Consumer Reports' list of "Best Cars to get to 200,000." My guess is that Kia, Hyundai, Mazda and Ford cars also have a chance of making it there with lots of maintenance and good luck....

http://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability/10-best-cars-to-get-to-200000-miles-and-beyond/

"Almost any car can make it to 200,000 miles and beyond if you’re willing to throw enough money at it. But that doesn’t mean that keeping your trusty steed is a good idea. A less expensive and more hassle-free way to go is to simply buy a safe, reliable model in the first place, and properly maintain it for the long haul...."

1. Honda Accord
2. Toyota Camry
3. Honda Civic
4. Honda Odyssey
5. Toyota Prius
6. Toyota Sienna
7. Honda CR-V
8. Toyota Corolla
9. Toyota 4-Runner
10. Ford F-150

m6user

I think just about any modern car or truck could do it. Just depends how much one is willing to put into it and how much down time hassle one wants to put up with. I think the CR list are the ones that can make it with the least problems.

stickguy

Also helps to pile on miles fast. I would have no worries about something like a Malibu, or a sonata, getting there with minimal hassles.

Sandman6472

All I can say is I absolutely love my 2015 Golf! Wanted a small hatchback and there aren't many in this category. Passed on the Ford Focus because of the awful auto tranny, a bit dangerous honestly. With the 2015 refresh, things are a bit better but that awful shudder is still there. So the Focus was taken off the short list.
Tried the Jetta but it was a bit too large for the garage but the Golf fit perfectly. Consider the Golf as the poor mans Audi A3 and they are very similar. Luckily I get to drive a 2015 A3 as the wife picked up one about a week before I bought the Golf. We are both happy with our choices!

The Sandman