Midsize Sedans 2.0

iluvmysephia1

brian125 - I tend ta agree - the 2016 Nissan Sentra is starting ta bring back some of the "old" Datsun 411/510 feelings in me. Just by looking at new Sentra's in Dodge City, KS, I mean.

What's one go for in a 6-speed base model, I wonder?

The engine is underpowered. 0-60 10.1 sec.

The above is cool with me.

brian125

Edmunds list the S model 1.8 6sp at $16,357 ( invoice price ) if you add most accessories your at 17k. Not bad.

Then minus the 1k Customer cash you could buy this car @16k..... plus tax , doc fee , dmv fee.

brian125

Forgot to add on the $835 destination charge. add to total sale price.

roadburner

I can tolerate glacial acceleration in an older special interest/classic car, as the overall driving experience overshadows the lack of hp. That said, there is no way I would buy any new car that took over 8 seconds to break 60 mph...

iluvmysephia1

So I'd be lookin' at something around $17,800. Not bad - if I wanted ta buy new I would seriously probably go take the 2016 Scion iA in the Stealth color, 6-speeds and 7" screen, now selling for only $14,395. Scion is being chopped off but I just got word that Toyota will call the car the 2017 Toyota Yaris iA. What they will ask for the compact built by Mazda (Mazda2) I don't know, I've had people say buy a 2016 Scion iA - it's exactly the same car and Toyota will charge more for their Yaris iA.

But thanks for getting that information - I think that Nissan's got a lot on the ball. I rented a 2014 Nissan Rogue SUV out of Sea-Tac airport and loved that rig. Handled like a champ and had a lot of power for me - I drive a 2011 Kia Soul, after all.

This Nissan Sentra thought will be fun ta add ta the mix and think about!

ab348

I have never read a single good review on the current Sentra. Whether that is a comment on the car or a comment on the state of automotive journalists these days I do not know.

I don't tend to notice many on the roads around here for some reason.

Sandman6472

Have a bunch of new Sentra's at work and the 16"s look really good. Getting up to speed is a bit lackluster but very comfy inside and ergonomics are pretty spot on. Have improved greatly since that awful 2003 model I had and definitely would try one again if need be. Pricing seems to be very good especially with the rebates though I 'd prefer a SL model, the top of the line with the alloy wheels.

The Sandman

brian125

roadburner said:

I can tolerate glacial acceleration in an older special interest/classic car, as the overall driving experience overshadows the lack of hp. That said, there is no way I would buy any new car that took over 8 seconds to break 60 mph...

Just think of all the other things you could do while waiting to hit 60mph. in that 10.1 time

sda

brian125 said:

roadburner said:

I can tolerate glacial acceleration in an older special interest/classic car, as the overall driving experience overshadows the lack of hp. That said, there is no way I would buy any new car that took over 8 seconds to break 60 mph...

Just think of all the other things you could do while waiting to hit 60mph. in that 10.1 time

Keeping things in perspective, when I was in college,early 1980s, anything that did 0-60 in 10 seconds or less was quick! I thought mom's 78 Olds 98 was practically a hot rod with the 403. Now my 4 cylinder Accord will do it in the mid 7s. Things are good!

sda

The key fob battery buzzer/light just triggered today on the Accord. It has the keyless start. I guess I should expect to replace the battery every 2 1/2 years or so. I bought it 9/5/13.

Michaell

Doesn't anybody rotate their fobs so that they get equal use?

stickguy

we have 2 for each car. I carry one, wife carries the other. so they both get used.

zandor

Michaell said:

Doesn't anybody rotate their fobs so that they get equal use?

Not me. Replacing the battery is way too easy in mine. No tools needed. Just pop out the backup mechanical key (it has push-button start), rotate it 180 degrees, and shove it back into the fob. The fob pops apart exposing the battery, which is a common CR2025 lithium battery. Conveniently it's the same battery my garage door opener uses. I like to keep a spare battery or two in the car.

roadburner

sda said:

Keeping things in perspective, when I was in college,early 1980s, anything that did 0-60 in 10 seconds or less was quick! I thought mom's 78 Olds 98 was practically a hot rod with the 403. Now my 4 cylinder Accord will do it in the mid 7s. Things are good!

How well I know; my 1979 Plymouth Arrow 2.6 GT was just about the fastest car in the Chrysler stable- it did 0-60 in 10 seconds flat.

berri

Don't forget handling. Back in the old days, even the Mopars liked to plow on curves when at speed.

suydam

sda said:

The key fob battery buzzer/light just triggered today on the Accord. It has the keyless start. I guess I should expect to replace the battery every 2 1/2 years or so. I bought it 9/5/13.

Mine went out a few months ago. It's cheap to replace. However, the dealership said they should last much longer and suspects there may have been a defective batch in some of the 13s.

iluvmysephia1

I can go from 0-60 in 8.4 seconds in my 2011 Kia Soul with it's 2.0L I-4 cyl.142hp engine and 5-speed manual transmission.

2011 Kia Soul in Red

benjaminh

iluvmysephia1 said:

brian125 - I tend ta agree - the 2016 Nissan Sentra is starting ta bring back some of the "old" Datsun 411/510 feelings in me. Just by looking at new Sentra's in Dodge City, KS, I mean.

What's one go for in a 6-speed base model, I wonder?

The engine is underpowered. 0-60 10.1 sec.

The above is cool with me.

A better car might be a 2016 Honda Civic. Crest Honda in TN is selling the LX auto for 17.5k. The 2016 Civic LX has a 2.0 engine that will get you to 60 in c. 8 seconds....For a bit more you can get a turbo Civic that gets to 60 in c. 6.8 seconds.

http://www.cresthonda.com/new-inventory/index.htm?model=Civic&&&&

fushigi

Please stick to MSRP for price comparisons. I'm sure the Sentra can be had for a bit off sticker as well. The Civic starts at $18640 + $835 dest charge. In my zip code there's a lease deal on the Civic but no rebate.

That said, if you can get a Civic for Sentra dollars I'd probably do it. The Civic should have better resale and is rated for slightly better FE; overall cost of ownership ought to be lower.

iluvmysephia1

I'm one of those people that wants a certain "look" outta their rigs. The 2016 Kia Soul, Nissan Sentra and even the Scion iA are better looking (subjective to iluv) to this padre. Can't do Honda's - except that sporty Civic, but I wouldn't pursue one of those.

benjaminh

http://www.autonews.com/article/20160406/OEM01/160409851/fiat-chrysler-cuts-shift-idles-1300-workers-at-mich-car-plant

Fiat Chrysler cuts shift, idles 1,300 workers at Mich. car plant

April 6, 2016 - 1:08 pm ET
DETROIT (Reuters) -- Fiat Chrysler Automobiles is laying off about 1,300 workers indefinitely and ending one of the two shifts at its Sterling Heights, Mich., plant that makes the slow-selling midsize Chrysler 200 sedan.

U.S. sales of the Chrysler 200 dropped 63 percent in the first three months of this year from a year earlier, as FCA has de-emphasized sales of the model which had been often sold to rental agencies....

brian125

Comparing Nissan sales March 2015 to this March 2016 numbers are excellent .


Nissan. 2016, 149,784............ sold

2015................ 132,560

13.0% increase .................367,544 to 333,786...............................^ 10.1% for 2016

Altima are flying out of dealerships. 2016 Altima sales may have passed Accord sales this year?

benjaminh

brian125 said:

Comparing Nissan sales March 2015 to this March 2016 numbers are excellent .


Nissan. 2016, 149,784............ sold

2015................ 132,560

13.0% increase .................367,544 to 333,786...............................^ 10.1% for 2016

Altima are flying out of dealerships. 2016 Altima sales may have passed Accord sales this year?

Probably 20% of those are fleet sales, but yes it does look like the Altima is trying to pass the Accord for the #2 spot in midsize sales. I expect Honda to put up a fight with big sales incentives this summer—but not as big as what Nissan already has on the hood. Having driven both, I think the Accord is a much better car, but if you're on a budget the Altima seems good enough and costs probably $1000 less once incentives are taken into account.

stickguy

I though Honda was production constrained, so couldn't really pass Camry (and I guess now Altima)?

benjaminh

stickguy said:

I though Honda was production constrained, so couldn't really pass Camry (and I guess now Altima)?

Honda can make up to c. 400k Accords a year for the US, which should be good for second place...if they can find the buyers. But it's true that Nissan can make as many as 450k Altimas, and Toyota can make as many as half a million Camrys. The reality is no one is quite selling at capacity in the midsize market. In fact, I heard a rumor that Honda is updating its huge Marysville factory to build SUVs in addition to Accords, TLXs and ILXs. I think that may have been an admission that they aren't likely to quite sell 400k Accords even in this good market.

ral2167

The Accord loses sales due to its primitive lane watch system to help with blind spots, as opposed to the much better "lights in the side mirrors" that the camry/altima/mazda 6/fusion/any other car other than the accord uses.

andres3

I honestly wonder if lost sales for the Accord due to a Helen Keller option actually affects sales more than 0.1%?

benjaminh

ral2167 said:

The Accord loses sales due to its primitive lane watch system to help with blind spots, as opposed to the much better "lights in the side mirrors" that the camry/altima/mazda 6/fusion/any other car other than the accord uses.

That's probably only make or break for a very small percentage of buyers. I think Honda's LaneWatch is better, but obviously that's just my opinion. The Accord has the best rear visibility of any midsize car on the market, and so unlike other midsize cars you don't really have "blind" spots. But I think we're never going to change each other's minds on this topic. The bottom line is that you can get a Camry, Altima, Sonata, etc. for a bit less than an Accord, which is probably for most people more important. But again, we'll just need to agree to disagree.

stickguy

I doubt that matters. I agree that it is an inferior design, but the large majority of the big sellers (Altima and Camry) don't even come with BLIS. it is an option, and only on higher end models, and not all that common.

More likely is the Accord doesn't dump as many into rental pools, and tends to not have the same huge incentives, so price only shoppers move on.

brian125

Agreed ...... Honda isn't losing many sales cause of its lane watch but they should put bliss on the drivers side mirror. Accord sales are being lost to other brands deeper discounts and fleet sales .

If I'm on a budget in the midsize market Camry , Altima , Sonata , Optima during certain months have much better incentives than Honda, Mazda6, and Fusion. Otherwise I agree with Ben Accord is better than most mentioned
.

Somebody once said cash is King.

andres3

berri said:

Don't forget handling. Back in the old days, even the Mopars liked to plow on curves when at speed.

Old days? They still do. There was zero over-steer possible on my V6 Camaro rental.

ab348

I figured the surge in Altima sales was due to their becoming a success symbol among senior citizens, at least according to testimonials here recently. Especially ones painted black, apparently.

stickguy

all the senior men heard that the young chicks found them sexy. that is all it took.

Mr_Shiftright

Actually, the Altima is a pretty nice car. Of all the cars I've rented recently (admittedly, mostly economy stuff), I liked the Altima the best because it was completely lacking in personality --but didn't do anything really well or really badly. It was like the car's message was: "Hey forget about me. Just drive".

As the Edmunds review put it:

"Sporty handling isn't a priority for most family sedan buyers, obviously, so for the majority of drivers the Altima will be adequate, though not impressive. The ride quality isn't as smooth or composed over rougher pavement as rivals', but it's not overly harsh, either. Like many things about the 2016 Nissan Altima, it neither excels nor fails."

stickguy

I did test drive an altima a few years back (before I got the Hyundai). I seem to recall it being comfortable, and drove OK. it would have been more of a "value buy" but not a bad car and well equipped.

No clue if that impression would have changed with a longer drive including some highway. Driving around local doesn't tell you much.

Mr_Shiftright

Yes, "value buy", that's it. The car is so utterly harmless it's hard to dislike it.

stickguy

and for a large % of the driving population, that is perfect. Just needs to have some "stuff" on it.

benjaminh

Mr_Shiftright said:

Yes, "value buy", that's it. The car is so utterly harmless it's hard to dislike it.

Hmmm. Well, I managed to dislike the Altima, although only mildly.

In terms of midsize rental cars I'd probably put it close to last. I think the Sonata is best midsize car that can be had as a common rental. Next for me is the Fusion. The Altima is about equal to the Camry to me, which isn't saying much. I guess the Altima beats the stuff from Chrysler?

I've never had an Optima as a rental car, but the new one is earning raves.

In terms of employment in the US when it comes to midsize cars, we have to take our hats off to the Japanese and the Koreans. The Camry factory in KY, the Altima factory in TN, the Accord factory in OH, the Sonata factory in AL, and the Optima factory in Georgia together provide quite a bit of good jobs.

Mr_Shiftright

I find it hard to see vast differences in these cars. They are all pretty good. I bet it really comes down to the details---how you find the view out the back, seat comfort, whether you find this or that control annoying or easy---things like that. I don't think any of these cars push most people to the extremes of --"PLEASE get me out of here!" or "WOW!"

I have my preferences in the midsize range, but they aren't what I'd call strong preferences. I suppose I'd lean to the car with the best driving dynamics---the most fun, vs. perhaps comfort or gadgets.

andres3

Mr_Shiftright said:

Actually, the Altima is a pretty nice car. Of all the cars I've rented recently (admittedly, mostly economy stuff), I liked the Altima the best because it was completely lacking in personality --but didn't do anything really well or really badly. It was like the car's message was: "Hey forget about me. Just drive".

As the Edmunds review put it:

"Sporty handling isn't a priority for most family sedan buyers, obviously, so for the majority of drivers the Altima will be adequate, though not impressive. The ride quality isn't as smooth or composed over rougher pavement as rivals', but it's not overly harsh, either. Like many things about the 2016 Nissan Altima, it neither excels nor fails."

I found two things well below par on the , the engine, and the CVT transmission. Together they combine to make the car anemic and in order to move you don't get but maybe 2/3rd's the EPA estimate for fuel economy. However, if you are OK dawdling onto freeways, and don't care about slowness, it could make a decent car.

andres3

Mr_Shiftright said:

I find it hard to see vast differences in these cars. They are all pretty good. I bet it really comes down to the details---how you find the view out the back, seat comfort, whether you find this or that control annoying or easy---things like that. I don't think any of these cars push most people to the extremes of --"PLEASE get me out of here!" or "WOW!"

I have my preferences in the midsize range, but they aren't what I'd call strong preferences. I suppose I'd lean to the car with the best driving dynamics---the most fun, vs. perhaps comfort or gadgets.

A colleague of mine recently considered many mid-size sedans for a new purchase to get out of an older falling apart V6 Pontiac. She considered Audi, but high maintenance costs didn't appeal to her much, though I did mention the reliability has been through the roof lately. She ended up getting a Mazda 6; I think a good choice for her priorities; she's not looking to win any races.

suydam

If I decide the Mazda 3 is too small, I'm getting the 6. But so far the 3 is winning.

brian125

Little off topic here but a nice plug for GM. Bumped into a plumber this morning at a deli in Staten Island, NY he was driving a 2006 Pontiac Vibe with 310k miles. No major problems original owner motor and Trans. I was impressed until I found out the Vibe shared the Toyota matrix Chassis and powertrain.

His biggest compliant was the Gm radio that died 2 years ago that he needed to replace. I think he got his moneys worth out of this vehicle.

suydam

We had an'04 Vibe. Yes, it was extremely reliable. But it was a very plebeian car. All about functionality and nothing else.

brian125

Did the 04, Vibe share Toyota platform also?? Give it to me straight . Please don't throw old school words at me my friend.

suydam

Yes. They all did. It was a good cheap vehicle, great for hauling dogs and garden supplies. Noisy and very slow. Hated driving it on the highway. We eventually replaced it with the Buick Encore. Huge improvement but too soon to know how it will hold up.

benjaminh

suydam said:

If I decide the Mazda 3 is too small, I'm getting the 6. But so far the 3 is winning.

Have you considered the new Civic as well?

brian125

In all my years kicking car talk with people......... 310,000 thousand miles is by far the most miles I ever heard on one vehicle in a 10 year span.

suydam

benjaminh said:

suydam said:

If I decide the Mazda 3 is too small, I'm getting the 6. But so far the 3 is winning.

Have you considered the new Civic as well?

I like the interior of the 3 better, and its tight turning radius. Also a hatch is always handy.

iluvmysephia1

If I decide the Mazda 3 is too small, I'm getting the 6. But so far the 3 is winning.

suydam - thumbs up ta the Mazda 3 choice. I am re-falling for the re-badged Mazda 2 sedan, the 2016 Scion iA. Need ta re-check the iA's 0-60 time, though, speed ain't really my bag, baby. The 2016 Scion iA would dash me around Kansas plenty Earnhardt, Jr.-ish.