Midsize Sedans 2.0

Michaell

nyccarguy said:

Now that gas is cheap again, can we go back to 5 & 6 speed automatics as well as hydraulic power steering?

Doubtful. Gas won't be cheap forever.

stickguy

Hard to imagine they dont replace them with something. Probably 1 model though.

m6user

Dart, 200 and Caravan bye bye after this year is what I read. Actually the Town & Country too as it changes names to Pacifica. Motor week liked just about everything about the 200 except the 9 speed. Between fleet sales and dealers discounting heavily am not shocked they beat some of the others sales numbers.

benjaminh

nyccarguy said:

Now that gas is cheap again, can we go back to 5 & 6 speed automatics as well as hydraulic power steering?

No.

CAFE.

Michaell

benjaminh said:

nyccarguy said:

Now that gas is cheap again, can we go back to 5 & 6 speed automatics as well as hydraulic power steering?

No.

CAFE.

Exactly.

benjaminh

Some of the next class of car down are now also "midsize"—at least according to the EPA measure. Sales for them for last month:

Corolla 29,342

Civic 27,707

Sentra 20,599

Focus 18,620

Cruze 12,998

Elantra 11,973

Jetta 9,375

Forte 8,187

Mazda3 7,275

Dart 6,771

Impreza 4,432

stickguy

Next Impreza could help that, if it looks like the concept from the auto show.

sda

A little surprised about the Impreza volume, thought it would be higher. Though the Dart is a decent looking car, I'd really be wary of buying one now knowing that it will be discontinued and many of its issues such as a bad shifting transmission, inconsistent powertrain reliability have not been resolved.

Sandman6472

Have Darts in the fleet at work and they're really not that bad optioned correctly. The 200 really need to go back to less forward speeds in their tranny to be honest otherwise it isn't that awful, maybe a 4 out of 10. Doubt we'd ever consider one but never like to say never in life.
Starting to warm up to the new Civic, Honda had great success back in 2006 with that radical design, and liked it so much I even bought one late in the first year of production. Looks like history is trying to repeat itself with the 2016 model but one difference, I won't be purchasing one. Will show my kid one when she wants to start her search as the interior is truly top notch. Honda really does make great products, it's just that many others are making more exciting ones, if you guys get what I'm trying to convey here. Granted, the new Civic and HR-V have that"wow factor" and should do pretty well in the future but there are so many other makes and models who also have that same thing, that will get a lot of those sales. This is great for the auto industry as a whole and for the buying public because there are so many good choices.
Just wish I was in the market again but am staying far away as I like what I got.

The Sandman

akirby

FCA is simply positioning itself to be bought by another company. They cut incentives on the Dart and 200 and sales fell through the floor (down 60% I think). Their month over month sales increases were due to big incentives and isn't sustainable long term. Jeep and maybe RAM trucks (and Pacifica) are the only likely survivors.

brian125

I just passed the 10k mark on my 2013 R-spec Genesis sedan. Really enjoy this vehicle. Sits in my garage in S.C. when I'm not there. What I like about the R-spec, its ultra quiet inside , luxurious, fast , awesome 17 speaker with amp 7.1 surround sound system and most of all very comfortable for a big man at 6'2. I plan on driving it back to NY in 2 weeks. Suspension is firm so its not a good vehicle on bad NY roads. Want to drive it little more before I sell /trade it. My next car I want all the new safety features like FCW, LW, Cross traffic, night vision etc.

I like what I'm seeing and reading about the New 2017 Ford Fusion it checks a lot of my wants in a vehicle for under 40k and 300 plus h/p . Hopefully this new model's cockpit will be more open and friendly like my Genesis. The new 15, 2016 exterior Genesis got hit with the big ugly stick. Inside is beautiful. I like the 3 different suspension modes and upgraded chassis on the newer models. . . Just cant drive a 50k vehicle looking like that. Sorry Hyundai. My style year ( 2013 ) I would buy in a sec. with all the new safety , tech / suspension features Hyundai offers.

akirby

2017 Fusion interior is not changing. I have a 2013 and I find it very open, but I guess that's a personal preference.

[Deleted User]

Mr_Shiftright said:

How about Elvis's personal 57 Chevy small block, numbers matching? I think it is a 327.Thanks for the birthday wish.anyway though. Ecoboost Premium Mustang? I'll split it with you. Since it is the midsize sedans area I heard there was going to be a 330HP Fusion. Is it going to be the Ecoboost 2.3 or the 2.7 twin scroll V6?

[Deleted User]

explorerx4 said:

@cski.
That's kind of scary, it's mine too!

OMG Cool

[Deleted User]

Please make Elvis go away!!!!!lol

[Deleted User]

nyccarguy said:

Now that gas is cheap again, can we go back to 5 & 6 speed automatics as well as hydraulic power steering?

That is why I am putting so much thought into my next car. Should I get a Turbo 4 that I can enjoy when gas prices inflate again, or just go for it and get the 5.0? I can get the basic 5.0 "Coyote" V8 GT for $26,999, but there is NO WAY I am gong to "go for it" and not get leather, the nicer wheels, and the MFT2 with the larger screen, although I personally thing it is a horrible to put a screen that low. Here in traffic world, taking your eyes off the road for 3 or 4 seconds is not a good idea. All I know is that I am going to keep posting about the life span of my Optima as long as I have it...and still admire it.

Mr_Shiftright

OK, Elvis has left the building.

tonyg2016

akirby said:

2017 Fusion interior is not changing. I have a 2013 and I find it very open, but I guess that's a personal preference.

no tranny shift knob; it's a round dial

m6user

Pretty sure the small block Chevy in 1957 was the 283 cu. in.

venture

How about Elvis's personal 57 Chevy small block, numbers matching? I think it is a 327.Thanks for the birthday wish.anyway though. Ecoboost Premium Mustang? I'll split it with you. Since it is the midsize sedans area I heard there was going to be a 330HP Fusion. Is it going to be the Ecoboost 2.3 or the 2.7 twin scroll V6?

It will be the 2.7 EcoBoost V6 with AWD. 325 HP and 350 Lb./Ft. of torque. LED headlights are (supposedly) available, and other goodies finally. Sounds like time to trade in my Titanium.

nyccarguy

cski said:

Now that gas is cheap again, can we go back to 5 & 6 speed automatics as well as hydraulic power steering?

That is why I am putting so much thought into my next car. Should I get a Turbo 4 that I can enjoy when gas prices inflate again, or just go for it and get the 5.0? I can get the basic 5.0 "Coyote" V8 GT for $26,999, but there is NO WAY I am gong to "go for it" and not get leather, the nicer wheels, and the MFT2 with the larger screen, although I personally thing it is a horrible to put a screen that low. Here in traffic world, taking your eyes off the road for 3 or 4 seconds is not a good idea. All I know is that I am going to keep posting about the life span of my Optima as long as I have it...and still admire it.

Right now I'm happy with the basics.  My Legacy has cloth seats (heated), an automatic (CVT), a spacious interior, AWD, a big trunk, and I can go at least a week between filling up due to the generous size of its 18.5 gallon tank.  It's suspension is well damped (not firm, not mushy) for daily driving.  

For my next car, motor is a priority.  I obviously won't go for a cheapo interior and crummy ride for the sake of speed, but I don't need the car to be loaded up either.

I don't particulaly care if gas goes back up to $3 or $4 per gallon because it won't affect there vehicle I buy.

Since I am happy with Subaru (coming up on 30K miles) thus far, the most logical choice for me would be a WRX Limited.  

Every time I see a current generation GTI it turns my head, but If I get that then I'd have to spring for a set of winter wheels & tires.  So I might as well stick with a WRX.  

A CPO ex-loaner A3 2.0 Quattro might fit the bill.  Same chassis as the GTI performance package, AWD, but I'd need to find one with the right wheels & sport suspension.  I'd also better have a damn good reason to tell my wife that I'd like to trade my Subaru in for a used Audi.

I don't know what it is, but I'd also love to give the 2016 Tacoma TRD Sport a ride around the block.  I have no need for a pickup truck, but could find uses for one very fast.  Plus the resale value on then is nuts.

roadburner

nyccarguy said:

Right now I'm happy with the basics.  My Legacy has cloth seats (heated), an automatic (CVT), a spacious interior, AWD, a big trunk, and I can go at least a week between filling up due to the generous size of its 18.5 gallon tank.  It's suspension is well damped (not firm, not mushy) for daily driving.  

For my next car, motor is a priority.  I obviously won't go for a cheapo interior and crummy ride for the sake of speed, but I don't need the car to be loaded up either.

I don't particulaly care if gas goes back up to $3 or $4 per gallon because it won't affect there vehicle I buy.

Since I am happy with Subaru (coming up on 30K miles) thus far, the most logical choice for me would be a WRX Limited.  

Every time I see a current generation GTI it turns my head, but If I get that then I'd have to spring for a set of winter wheels & tires.  So I might as well stick with a WRX.  

A CPO ex-loaner A3 2.0 Quattro might fit the bill.  Same chassis as the GTI performance package, AWD, but I'd need to find one with the right wheels & sport suspension.  I'd also better have a damn good reason to tell my wife that I'd like to trade my Subaru in for a used Audi.

I don't know what it is, but I'd also love to give the 2016 Tacoma TRD Sport a ride around the block.  I have no need for a pickup truck, but could find uses for one very fast.  Plus the resale value on then is nuts.

Ah yes, a cross-shopper after my own heart. Like you, I'm not all that excited about stuffing my cars with gadgets- but having said that I do enjoy all the connectivity and media options in my 2 Series. I also like the fact that the car has a volume knob and that the iDrive knob can be configured as a tuning knob(I'm not all that excited about touch screens in a car). One more thing I like is how the IP has a secondary display between the speedometer and the tach that can display the audio and/or navigation status- so if you want to change stations you can simply glance at the IP cluster rather than over at the primary screen. I don't know what other brands offer that feature, but I really like it.

stickguy

My sonata has a little screen like that in the dash.

I also know I'm going to have a problem narrowing down a direction, never mind specific car. Right now there are way more options on the list than eliminated!

suydam

I'm going in the direction of downsizing. Will be looking at the new Honda Civic and the Mazda 3. I've already driven the Mazda 3 and really like it. Oh, and I like a lot of the gadgets too. Seems like the new Civic is more the size the Accord used to be.

stickguy

I may make a move to the 3 also. Really loaded with features which I want.

sda

Tire input, please. At just under 54000 miles, the Goodyear Assurance Fuel Max are down to 5/32. I tend to replace around 4/32 to maintain good wet performance. Though I do not have any real complaints about the current tires, they certainly have gone the distance, I am wondering if I should try the Michelin Premier, Continental Contact V or Pirelli All Season Plus. All three were rated highly by Tire Rack and Consumer R. I do value a smooth quiet ride, good handling/traction, long life and maintaining good gas mileage. Thoughts?

nyccarguy

Michelin

stickguy

Which car? Continental for the accord. True contact maybe?

sda

That would be helpful... the Accord

stickguy said:

Which car? Continental for the accord. True contact maybe?

stickguy

I decided on the latest conti for the RDX when it is time. Just can't remember if that is the true or pure line!

akirby

Used to have Michelins, now have Conti Pro Contacts. No issues with either one.

brian125

sda said:

That would be helpful... the Accord

stickguy said:

Which car? Continental for the accord. True contact maybe?

Both Michelin and Continental contact tires you mentioned are excellent . I'd go with which ever is cheaper for the Accord. The Michelin may ride a little smoother . Stay away from the B/S Turanza tire.

roadburner

nyccarguy said:

Michelin

Exactly.

benjaminh

suydam said:

I'm going in the direction of downsizing. Will be looking at the new Honda Civic and the Mazda 3. I've already driven the Mazda 3 and really like it. Oh, and I like a lot of the gadgets too. Seems like the new Civic is more the size the Accord used to be.

2016 Honda Civic: 182.3" long, 70.8" wide

1990 Honda Accord: c.185" long, c.68" wide

2013-2016 Accord: c.191" long, c.73" wide

2016 Mazda3: 180.3" long, 70.7" wide

And so the new Civic is close the size of an Accord from a quarter of a century ago. The Mazda3 and Civic are close in size—almost identical in width, with the Civic just 2 inches longer.

The Mazda3 is rated 34 mpg combined, while the new Civic is rated at 35 combined.

What's interesting is that if you go to the EPA mpg comparison site, it rates a 1990 Honda Accord with auto at 22 combined. If I'm calculating it right, that means that mpg for similar-sized cars has gone up by almost 60% since 1990....

roadburner

My 2 Series is the same size as an E36 3 Series and the current 3er is the size of an E34 5 Series. I prefer cars under 180" in length and weighing 3500 pounds or less.

andres3

roadburner said:

My 2 Series is the same size as an E36 3 Series and the current 3er is the size of an E34 5 Series. I prefer cars under 180" in length and weighing 3500 pounds or less.

So that leads me to a question:

Would you prefer a 3,300 pound car that's a bit over 180" long, let's say 183.5" or something, or a 3,500 lb car that's 178" long? I guess I'm asking which is more important to you, and why is length bad to you?

nyccarguy

He'll take the lighter car

roadburner

Less weight is always better; as for preferring shorter vehicles- it's simple convenience; easier to maneuver and park.

andres3

The reason I asked is because the new "next" S4 is supposed to be EVEN bigger than the current one (in my opinion it is already big enough). But I won't complain about the EXTRA size if it proves true they managed to increase size while reducing weight significantly (approx. 250 lbs). That being said, maybe they could have pushed 300 lbs lighter if they didn't make it even bigger.

akirby

Does 300 lbs make a real difference if you're not on a race track?

backy

One way to find out: Take a drive of some length with no passengers or cargo. Keep track of speed and fuel economy. Then add people and/or cargo of 300 lbs and take the same drive, with conditions and speed as close to the original drive as possible. I'll bet the FE is lower on that trip than on the original trip.

There's a reason (CAFE) automakers are trying like h*** to shed weight on their vehicles. Ford for example just put a lot of money into their pickups to use lots of aluminum. They didn't do it because aluminum costs less than steel.

akirby

Automakers deal in tenth of a mpg for CAFE. Owners wouldn't notice the difference. On the F150 it's just as much about payload capacity as mpg. Plus that was 700 lbs not 300.

Just saying it wouldn't be a drastic change that the average driver would even notice.

m6user

If 300 lbs resulted in a 1 mpg difference that is substantial. I think you're talking about ride, handling and acceleration which may not be of much import to the average driver. Someone who really pushes their car and is acutely aware of performance would probably notice on or off the track.

nyccarguy

m6user said:

If 300 lbs resulted in a 1 mpg difference that is substantial. I think you're talking about ride, handling and acceleration which may not be of much import to the average driver. Someone who really pushes their car and is acutely aware of performance would probably notice on or off the track.

I think the average driver will notice a difference with a weight reduction.  Look at the Ford F-150 with the Aluminum Body and 2.7 L Turbo V6 engine.  Now it doesn't deliver the drastic increase in real world fuel economy vs the previous year's steel bodied V8 F150 as one would expect with a 700 something pound weight loss.  Read the reviews.  Edmunds has one in their long term fleet. (Look at what owners (@henryn, @explorerx4) say.  The biggest plus is the everyday drivability of the new Aluminum body, Turbo V6 truck.

m6user

I don't think any one thing results in what you call "drastic" fuel improvement. It's incremental mostly. Heck they all changed to electric steering and that resulted in maybe .5 mpg improvement at best. I really don't know what the average driver would notice as none of us here are probably in that category. Would they think their car handles a lot different with a heavy passenger riding with them? I doubt it but it's possible. None of us knows what the "average driver" feels, it's just a guess.

sda

Thanks for the tire guidance. I will probably hold out until April-May. I believe that is when Michelin will have their sale.

I had the pleasure of going to the Atlanta car show. It was an impressive venue. Three cars really impressed me. The new Acura NSX looked stunning! Great job! The new Lincoln Continental looked better in person, very handsome, and somewhat imposing. The CTS-V, wow what a car!

I was able to drive round trip on a single tank of gas. Fuel light came on at 510 miles, range still read 74 miles left. Filled up about a mile from home, with 64 miles still showing. Right at 38 mpg, a/c on entire time, running 70-75 most of the way. This was in the Accord--made for a cheap trip!

akirby

m6user said:

If 300 lbs resulted in a 1 mpg difference that is substantial. I think you're talking about ride, handling and acceleration which may not be of much import to the average driver. Someone who really pushes their car and is acutely aware of performance would probably notice on or off the track.

You think an EPA rating of 22 vs. 23 or 34 vs. 35 really makes a difference in a car buying decision?
I think not.

And I understand there are people who spend thousands of dollars for tiny gains in power and/or handling. For them 300 lbs is probably a big deal. But not for the other 99.99%.

Michaell

akirby said:

m6user said:

If 300 lbs resulted in a 1 mpg difference that is substantial. I think you're talking about ride, handling and acceleration which may not be of much import to the average driver. Someone who really pushes their car and is acutely aware of performance would probably notice on or off the track.

You think an EPA rating of 22 vs. 23 or 34 vs. 35 really makes a difference in a car buying decision?
I think not.

And I understand there are people who spend thousands of dollars for tiny gains in power and/or handling. For them 300 lbs is probably a big deal. But not for the other 99.99%.

Fuel economy matters to me. Actually, it's more about range per tank. At the moment, I get 300-325 miles to a tank with my Elantra GT, and I'm averaging just under 28MPG in the 25 months I've had it. It's about 90% city driving, and the EPA sticker says 27 around town, so not too bad.

I'd like the next car - whatever it is - to get more miles per tank so I'm not filling up every week.

suydam

It matters to me too.

nyccarguy

@Michaell - the range matters more to me than the actual MPG.  I can get a full week's worth of driving on a tank.  My Legacy has a generously sized 18.5 gal gas tank.  I do think it should get better mpg due to its lackadaisical acceleration, but that's me.

Our Pilot barely gets 350 miles to a tank on the open highway.  A vehicle that size should be able to go a lot more on a tank.  Usually my wife gets maybe 250 - 275 gal to a tankful with her normal driving.