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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 17,312
    It's not a midsized sedan, but my wife's 2004 X3 has nearly 182k on the clock and the automatic(a GM 5L40-E ) is still working great- although the ATF does get changed every 60k. With proper maintenance any modern automatic should make it to at least 150k with no issues.
    Having said all that, I only have one automatic in my garage, as I prefer cars with three pedals.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport; 2020 C43; 2021 Sahara 4xe 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i Son's: 2009 328i; 2018 330i xDrive

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    litesong2 said:

    akirby said:

    seems transmission problems are more common now whether they're CVTs, DCTs or conventional automatics.

    Auto trannies are very complicated. If you plan to have your car 100,000+ miles, expect an auto tranny $4000 repair bill. We have a 6spd auto 2013 Elantra that is wonderful. But, now we also have a 6spd manual Elantra too. I'll tell you which car has its first tranny repair & how much.

    You'll pay more on some foreign-made midsize sedans to repair the automatics...you could run up a $6500--$8000 bill.
  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    I had a 03 Honda pilot that we sold to my niece in 2007. My brother replaced the Trans ( rebuilt ) @100k for $2500. I had 3 Honda Accords over the years and 2 had Trans problems. One My 2013 Accord w 6k had a crack inside the Trans. Honda replaced the Trans.

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 4,676
    I've never had to replace an auto transmission, and have driven my cars well over 100,000 miles.
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    Now thinking back my 1992 Accord which both my boys drove had a transmission problem. Pilots, Civics', Accords, Odysseys were problematic back then .

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • wayne21wayne21 Member Posts: 259
    Our 2000 accord had the original plus 3 rebuilt transmission in it before it hit 90k miles.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Regarding comments above of low interest in the Sonata... did anyone notice its sales were just under the Fusion's in December, and Ford has a much larger dealer network? Also the Hyundai/Kia duo topped every over mid-sizer in sales in December except the Camry. That seems like a lot of interest to me.

    I noticed Kia borrowed the Sonata's dash design for the 2016 Optima. I don't think that's a good thing, as I liked the old Optima's dash and the Sonata's (and now the Optima's) is kinda boring, although the layout of the controls is simple.

    The 1.6T engine would be my choice for either the Sonata or Optima. I'd love to see Hyundai drop that motor into the all-new 2017 Elantra, but alas while it's getting a turbo option it's only 1.4L--but it will have the 7-speed DCT. (And yes, it's still in the mid-size EPA class, like earlier Elantras and like the Civic and Corolla.)
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Oh, I think Detroit and Japan fully understand that Korea is a competitor that is getting stronger every year. I don't believe the industry is brushing them off at all.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    2017 Fusion Sport and Platinum - 2017 Fusion Sport offers the 325 hp/350 lb/ft 2.7L ecoboost engine plus electronically controlled suspension (continuously controlled dampening). Automatic AWD only. Basically the Edge Sport drivetrain in a lighter vehicle. Yee-ha!

    Also announced is a platinum model that seems to be the old loaded Titanium plus nicer/more leather.

    The rest is pretty much unchanged except for a few styling tweaks:

    https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2016/01/11/ford-unveils-new-fusion.html
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    AWD - 300 plus HP V6 - you've got my attention

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited January 2016
    Just saw that! This might give Toyota, Honda and Nissan the shakes. Ford may not stay #4 in mid-size for too much longer with a car like that....and might even grab some Lexus and Audi sales as well with either this Fusion or even the new Mustang.
  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    2016 SHO Taurus 3.5 / 365 h/p. Thinking a 325 H/p Fusion will hurt Taurus sales

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    Can anyone find 2015 year end sales on the SHO model ??

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    They don't sell that many SHOs, do they?
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 19,024
    brian125 said:

    2016 SHO Taurus 3.5 / 365 h/p. Thinking a 325 H/p Fusion will hurt Taurus sales

    I'm not sure how that would be possible. Number must be approaching zero, at least at retail.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    Don't see many . I did drive one 2 years ago thought it rode and handled pretty good.

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,433
    Toyota buyers won't care. Also will be a niche model. I doubt the sales will move the needle much. That is gonna sticker at what, 40k?

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    edited January 2016
    Some will compare my R-spec Genesis to the SHO model But I feel overall performance and luxury the Genesis wins hands down.

    BTW.................. Congrats to the 16 Civic and Xc-90 NA car and truck of the year.

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    Most Midsize family buyers wont spend the coin for 300 plus motor . Your high volume Target area is the 4 cyl. vehicles

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,433
    Yup. If you want all that, might as well move up to an Infiniti!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    MSRP is $34,450 on the Fusion Sport. Bump that up $3K if you want the Platinum version.

    Brian's right that most families won't care about the 300+ HP, but they might care about AWD, lots of tech, very nice fitments and a domestic product to buy, with a dealer just down the street. Ford must have..what...3X the number of Toyota dealers and perhaps 4X Nissan dealers?
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    If I'm going into the $40K's for a 4 dr sedan, I'm going to buy something with more status than a Ford. I'm guessing it will depreciate like a lead weight. But does look like a nice vehicle.
  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    Ford at its height had 4000 dealerships in the US . Last known dealership count that I seen for Ford around 3k. could be less . Toyota has close to 1500 dealerships in the US. Bmw about 300

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    @berri--hard to say with a new and specialized model like this. But yeah, lotsa Fusions in the rental fleet. On the other hand, it's better looking than some of the higher status cars. "Status" is what others think, not what the owner thinks.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Taurus is a dead man walking in NA. They cancelled the U.S. version on the Fusion/Continental CD4 platform. It's basically the same size as the Fusion and now with the Fusion sport there is no performance advantage for Taurus.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I thought I read somewhere that they sell maybe 8,000 SHOs a year, give or take?
  • thebeanthebean Member Posts: 1,216
    I've just passed 10K miles in my 2015 Accord (EX, 4 banger, CVT).  Only issue was when the radiator overflow bottle came unhooked from it's holder (poor design) and got a hole in it from rubbing on a belt/pulley.  I noticed it a day before I was leaving on a long driving vacation.  Dealership didn't have one in stock and couldn't get one for a day.  But when I explained the situation, they took one off a demo and I was on my way.  Great service by them. Only other service visit was the oil/filter change.  

    My mileage over the year has averaged a shade over 30 mpg with 60/40 hwy/city driving.  Power with the 4 cyl is enough for me and I love the mileage.  Car is still tight with no rattles or wind leaks.  Nothing to complain about with it, which is just how I like it.  Not exciting to drive, but I'll trade that for no-drama reliability all day long.  It did great on vacation with plenty of trunk room and I didn't get overly tired on the few 12 hour driving days.

    Overall, a very good Honda experience.  Since I tend to keep cars for 10+ years, I'm happy with this choice.
    2015 Honda Accord EX, 2019 Honda HR-V EX
  • pjm83pjm83 Member Posts: 6
    akirby said:

    Taurus is a dead man walking in NA. They cancelled the U.S. version on the Fusion/Continental CD4 platform. It's basically the same size as the Fusion and now with the Fusion sport there is no performance advantage for Taurus.

    Maybe this will motivate Nissan to do something with the Maxima.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,433
    they just released a brand new model. Distinctive, if nothing else.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • pjm83pjm83 Member Posts: 6
    Yeah, but that's really what is disappointing. They made some incremental improvements, but the car has needed significant differentiation from the Altima for years now. I'm not entirely sure there's much Nissan can do at with a car in that segment, especially now if Ford gives any indication of things. Maybe the Maxima should be dropped, giving room for a proper Altima SE-R V(ersailles)spec.
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 19,024
    stickguy said:

    they just released a brand new model. Distinctive, if nothing else.

    The new Maxima is from the Nissan bizarroland styling dept. Same group that did the Juke.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 4,676
    It is not as cartoonish as the Juke. That is in a category by itself. That said, once they enlarged the Altima and made its interior nicer, the Maxima kind of lost its distinctive identity in the lineup. That's the bigger problem.
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,433
    well, at this point, I think the Maxima is definitely separated from the Altima. Style wise, in and out, and feature content. Whether that helps sales, remains to be seen.

    I also know a couple of people that have Jukes, and love them. Both women, though I suspect that is 98% of the owners of that. I like the concept, just a bit overstyled for my taste.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 4,676
    edited January 2016
    As they say, there is a buyer for every car. We drove one last February at the same time we drove the Encore. Aside from the exterior we both hated every aspect of it. The interior was cheap and extremely cramped. Seats were extremely uncomfortable. Ride was rough and loud. It could not have been a bigger contrast with the Encore. Or even with Nissan's own larger Rogue which is a very nice vehicle.
    In regards to the Maxima, I owned an '01 and loved it. But the new ones look too large and bulky for my taste. And I'm really surprised they changed out that sweet V6 engine for a CVT.
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,952
    Kinda like the Juke in a strange way, and agree, have only seen women driving them. If not for the dismal mileage figures, would have the kid check it out...but will show it to her at the Miami International Car show in November. Like I've said, I want her to try everything out there so she makes an informed decision.
    Was a bit surprised at the smallish changes in the new Altima, very hard to tell the differences in the new model. We have a lot of them at work and folks seem to like them just the same.

    The Sandman :)B)

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    suydam said:

    It is not as cartoonish as the Juke. That is in a category by itself. That said, once they enlarged the Altima and made its interior nicer, the Maxima kind of lost its distinctive identity in the lineup. That's the bigger problem.

    The Maxima's distinctive identity is a "4-Door Sports Car or 4DSC as Nissan puts it on the window. My rental of a couple years back suggests false advertising. It was more of a 4-door boat than sports car. The only thing sporty about it was the engine, everything else was sub-par.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    andres3 said:
    It is not as cartoonish as the Juke. That is in a category by itself. That said, once they enlarged the Altima and made its interior nicer, the Maxima kind of lost its distinctive identity in the lineup. That's the bigger problem.
    The Maxima's distinctive identity is a "4-Door Sports Car or 4DSC as Nissan puts it on the window. My rental of a couple years back suggests false advertising. It was more of a 4-door boat than sports car. The only thing sporty about it was the engine, everything else was sub-par.
    Did you take that Maxima rental to the track or was this just your street driving assessment?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I saw a recent face-off of the '16 Malibu, Camry, Fusion and Accord. A bit too brief, but interesting. Looks like the Japanese are going to a full embrace of the CVT.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    nyccarguy said:


    andres3 said:

    suydam said:

    It is not as cartoonish as the Juke. That is in a category by itself. That said, once they enlarged the Altima and made its interior nicer, the Maxima kind of lost its distinctive identity in the lineup. That's the bigger problem.

    The Maxima's distinctive identity is a "4-Door Sports Car or 4DSC as Nissan puts it on the window. My rental of a couple years back suggests false advertising. It was more of a 4-door boat than sports car. The only thing sporty about it was the engine, everything else was sub-par.

    Did you take that Maxima rental to the track or was this just your street driving assessment?

    It was a street driving assessment; though it was a longer rental period so I had chances to exercise it some as my S4 was in the shop. Let me put it this way. I think you know I have no love lost for GM. I traded this rental into Hertz for a Camaro RS rental special for my track weekend due the the S4 being out of commission.

    Part of the problem was it had like 50K miles as a rental perhaps, and it also smelled of cigarettes (which I hate). In the end for the track weekend they may have been equally fun cars. Lots of people said a Focus would have been more fun despite the low power output it apparently has a solid chassis.

    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,250
    Bought my Fusion at the end of February 2013. I keep track of mileage by calendar year, among others.
    Year 1(10 months) - 28.1 (10800 miles), Year 2 - 27.3 (9500 miles), Year 3 - 28.0 (9200 miles).
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The Fusion isn't a class leader in MPG but that's actually pretty good.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,250
    The Fusion is heavier than just about all of it's peers, but it's one of those car, the faster you go the better it feels.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I've driven the '16 Fusion, but not the '16 'Bu yet. The Fusion was much more appealing than last year's Malibu.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,250
    The Fusion hit 30k, so I brought it in for oil change/tire rotation/wipers and an air filter.
    Bill was $120, but there was an oil change/tire rotation special (-$18), rebate($10 into my owner advantage acct, ), had a free oil change coming (-$48), so I got out of there for less than $40.
    Also got a ride to work and picked up when it was done.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    edited February 2016
    January midsize sales in the US:

    Camry 26,848

    Altima 22,156

    Accord 20,765

    Fusion 19,877

    Sonata 15,209

    Malibu 14,746

    Optima 8,413

    200 5,200

    Legacy 4,473

    Passat 3,586

    Mazda6 2,572
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    Some of the entries in the "compact" class are now "midsize" too according to EPA. Sales for them:

    Civic 26,741

    Corolla 22,362

    Sentra 16,144

    Cruze 14,362

    Focus 12,977

    Elantra 9,885

    Jetta 8,175

    Mazda3 7,551
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,433
    Sales look way down annualized.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I think January is typically slow plus the blizzard over a large portion of the country.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    If you want a car, it might not be a bad time to buy. Everyone wants an SUV with the low gas prices. Dealer lots have lots of sedans, but few crossovers.
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