Midsize Sedans 2.0

benjaminh

brian125 said:

THIS IS SOME DEAL

2015 lease Sonata $169 3yr/ 36. How do you beat a deal like this ?

Sounds like a good deal. How much do you have to put down?

Mr_Shiftright

Can you check off Boy Racer delete on the options?

ab348 said:

stickguy said:

that wing though. Ouch.

This. Aside from the stigma of driving one of these nowadays - equivalent to the [non-permissible content removed] days of the Civic 15-20 years ago - that wing is just too much.

Mr_Shiftright

You are the only guy I know who cross shops BMW M cars and Mustang GTs.

roadburner said:

It's still there, and they have cut the price again. I'm just trying to decide whether I want it, a Mustang GT with the Perf. Pkg, or a 2012 135i M Sport that showed up at my BMW dealer. I'd probably go with the 1er in a heartbeat(CPO, good options, good price(same as the STI), but it has the DCT, and I'm not sure I can live with it long term...

brian125

Above Sonata deal is Zero down. Excludes taxes, doc fee ,

roadburner

The wing isn't a big deal for me; in all honesty the STI reminded me of an E30 M3 in the sense that it is incredibly focused as a driver's car and that it requires a bit of work to extract maximum performance from the engine and chassis. And all the time it seems the car is telling me "This is what I am; don't like it? Well, bugger off!"
Another parallel: when the E30 M3 was new a few automotive journalists wrote that they preferred the E30 325 because it had comparable performance yet wasn't as raw as the M3. I've read similar comments regarding the WRX and WRX STI.

Mr_Shiftright

I prefer a bit "raw". I like to feel like I'm driving IT, not IT driving me. For car guys, if the car isn't a bit edgy, we can bore easily.

jpp75

brian125 said:

I think the new 2016 Malibu is going to create good competition for the big boys in this group thus giving us more incentives and buying power. Mazda6 may stand to lose out the most here with the other brands discounting. Surprisingly Chrysler's 200 sells a lot of vehicles but then again how many are going to fleet sales.??

Based on my recent travels for work and renting cars in various cities I'd say a LOT of the 200 sales go to fleets. They are by far the most prominent in the National fleet with the outgoing style Malibu a close second.

brian125

jpp5862

What's your take on the 200. like / dislike. I have drove the 15 Malibu a lot more positive than neg but not yet in the class of Honda and some others IMO.

berri

My opinion is the Honda Accord has better handling and a smoother drive train, but the Malibu is quieter and a nicer highway cruiser. That's not all bad, it gives the buyer a choice.

jpp75

brian125 said:

jpp5862

What's your take on the 200. like / dislike. I have drove the 15 Malibu a lot more positive than neg but not yet in the class of Honda and some others IMO.

Well I generally try to avoid them after having them a few times. I'll search out something else if possible. It's definitely an improvement on the prior generation, but still not really competitive with the rest of the segment. I find the 4 cylinder to be a bit harsh and the 9 speed transmission is always hunting for a gear. I was trying to think of what I liked about it, and really nothing comes to mind. That's not saying it's all bad, just nothing good is that memorable.

brian125

berri said:

My opinion is the Honda Accord has better handling and a smoother drive train, but the Malibu is quieter and a nicer highway cruiser. That's not all bad, it gives the buyer a choice.

Previous owning a 2013 Accord I'd have to agree with you on Malibu's quieter cabin and not as smooth drive train. I could not tell a difference with both vehicles on hwy thou. Accord has a firmer suspense which on city streets you could tell the difference between both cars.

backy

I've driven the 200 and driving-wise it was "fine", nothing exceptional but not bad either. However, I got a sense of claustrophobia inside it. The rear seemed especially cramped, whether psychologically or in reality. And I disliked having to use the touch screen to perform simple functions; I prefer real buttons and knobs. But I guess that's the future of cars, isn't it.

berri

Maybe temporarily. Ford products are starting to put more buttons back after all of the My Ford Synch complaints. A step in the right direction !

zigster38

Price drops on the 2016! accords in the last week or so - great deals at the 39 month incentivized point.

brian125

What's this great 39 month deal? My local paper has the Accord 39 mo. $159 / 10k for the 16 lx with 2k down plus taxes. That in NY comes to another 3k which is 90 more dollars added to lease. Best lease deals right now are $169 and $179 for 2015 Sonata , Camry , Altima's w/ zero down.

jpp75

backy said:

I've driven the 200 and driving-wise it was "fine", nothing exceptional but not bad either. However, I got a sense of claustrophobia inside it. The rear seemed especially cramped, whether psychologically or in reality. And I disliked having to use the touch screen to perform simple functions; I prefer real buttons and knobs. But I guess that's the future of cars, isn't it.

I had a Charger last week and the touch screen was messed up. The Climate screen and a couple of others were just blank, no icons or text. I wasn't able to change any of the settings, had to take it back and got a Jetta instead.

brian125

I still cant get used to all these newer vehicles with big grilles. Camry's, New Civic's, Avalon, Fusion, Scions etc. The Fusion does seem to be growing on me out of the lot.

My 13 Genesis R-spec is a sharping looking car. This car by far gets the most compliments out of all the vehicles I owned. The new 15 Genesis w, that big ugly grille is hard on the eyes. Inside the 2015 its luxurious and beautiful .The new Genesis suspensions (3 modes ) is so much better than previous years and starting to get closer to the German made vehicles. Nice bang for your buck but not there yet.

My son bought the Bmw 3 last year after looking at the Mazda6. He felt as I that for 30k plus not enough ponies under the hood. I'd like to see the Mazda 6 with a turbo or upgrade motor . May help them in the sales dept.

I got a chance to drive a 16, Malibu, Had a Turbo 2.0 w/ 8sp trans . Felt fast , trans shifted nicely and was very quite inside cabin. This newer model rides exceptional. Still felt small inside for me at almost 6'2 but I could make due if I had to drive it. GM has a winner on its hands here.

Happy Thanksgiving

roadburner

brian125 said:

My son bought the Bmw 3 last year after looking at the Mazda6. He felt as I that for 30k plus not enough ponies under the hood. I'd like to see the Mazda 6 with a turbo or upgrade motor . May help them in the sales dept.

If he bought a base F30 3er the extra power would be about the only advantage over a Mazda 6. BMW's marketing strategy now forces you to buy several thousand dollars worth of options if you want a BMW that actually performs like BMWs of old...

brian125

roadburner said:

brian125 said:

My son bought the Bmw 3 last year after looking at the Mazda6. He felt as I that for 30k plus not enough ponies under the hood. I'd like to see the Mazda 6 with a turbo or upgrade motor . May help them in the sales dept.

If he bought a base F30 3er the extra power would be about the only advantage over a Mazda 6. BMW's marketing strategy now forces you to buy several thousand dollars worth of options if you want a BMW that actually performs like BMWs of old...

I would agree with just buying a base F30. better off buying the 6, but that was not the case . Coming out of the 2012, G37 Manuel sport w/ 300 plus h/p. there's no turning back especially for a 180 h/p fwd mazda6.

venture

brian125 said:

My son bought the Bmw 3 last year after looking at the Mazda6. He felt as I that for 30k plus not enough ponies under the hood. I'd like to see the Mazda 6 with a turbo or upgrade motor . May help them in the sales dept.

Happy Thanksgiving

I agree with that statement. I bought a Mazda 6 GT when the new body style came out. It had ~278 HP and was fast. I wouldn't even consider a Mazda 6 now.

m6user

The new CX-9 was just revealed and it has a turbo 2.5 with something like 255hp and over 300lb torque. Rumors that it will be offered in the 2017 Mazda6 and maybe a tuned version for a MazdaSpeed3.

benjaminh

midsize sales for Nov....

Camry 30,931

Accord 25,566

Altima 20,564

Fusion 19,451

Sonata 16,732

Optima 13,048

Malibu 10,813

200 10,332

Legacy 4,769

Mazda6 3,089

Passat 2,759

benjaminh

Top 4 midsize sales for first 11 months of the calendar year....

Camry 392,056

Accord 320,501

Altima 303,936

Fusion 274,594

carboy21

benjaminh said:

midsize sales for Nov....

Camry 30,931

Accord 25,566

Altima 20,564

Fusion 19,451

Sonata 16,732

Optima 13,048

Malibu 10,813

200 10,332

Legacy 4,769

Mazda6 3,089

Passat 2,759

Sonata + Optima is 2nd in sales to Camry !

Mr_Shiftright

I agree. The mazda6 needs help in the engine department.

Michaell

Mr_Shiftright said:

I agree. The mazda6 needs help in the engine department.

Which is might get. One of the engines for the new CX-9 is a turbo 2.5L with 255HP - it's been rumoured that this engine may find its way into the 6.

m6user

Gee, didn't I just post that????

Michaell

m6user said:

Gee, didn't I just post that????

Did you? Sorry, too many discussions for me to keep track of .. and, I'm finding that my memory isn't what it used to be.

Thanks for keeping me honest

stickguy

I found the engine in the 6 to be quite zippy, and very smooth. Better than the other options (legacy and sonata). And just as good as the accord.

Fine to offer the turbo. I bet though it does not amount to 10% of sales. Probably about same as the sonata? Almost no one buys the V6 Camry or accord.

roadburner

I'm really sorry Mazda won't be using the new turbo as the heart of a new Mazdaspeed 3 or 6- I'd be first in line, but as it stands I'll have to look elsewhere for my automotive thrills...

m6user

@roadrunner Do you know really know something that would warrant a definitive statement regarding the turbo NOT going in the Mazda6? Or are you just...............? Automotive rumors are just the opposite.

@stickguy. I agree about the power of the Mazda6. It has as much or more hp and torque than others coming on at lower rpms as well but all you hear on forums and in just about every review is "no zoom zoom". I think because the Mazda is more of a drivers car the take rate might be a little higher especially if the MPGs are decent.

roadburner

Well, it certainly doesn't look like Mazda plans to do it anytime soon- else they would have at leased teased it at Frankfurt or Tokyo. I'm not going to put off a car purchase in the hope that vaporware becomes a reality in the next year or so.

stickguy

I thought the new speed 3 was a go?

The 6, who knows.

roadburner

All the rumors that I read said that the Mazdaspeed 3(3 MPS in Europe) was to be exhibited as a concept in Frankfurt and go on sale in mid 2016.

stickguy

well, there's the engine. After the last speed6 model (they sold what, 10? Though I know a guy that bought one) might not do another one of those, but a version with the engine tune going into the CX-9 is possible, since the engine will be certified.

an AWD 300 HP 3 hatch certainly piques my interest!

m6user

Yeah, I didn't say anything about a speed6. I read in at least two articles that Mazda officials at the LA show were hinting that it could be seen in the 6 and the speed3. It would just fill in where the 6 cyl used to be in the 6 and a tuned version for the speed3. They are all just rumors at this point and that's why I was wondering why someone would come out and say the 6 isn't getting as if they actually knew something.

[Deleted User]

Hey gents. It has been awhile. First, for those who are new-new; I still have the 2012 Optima EX in Spicy Red with about $1,200 in dealer and aftermarket options, such as 35% tinted windows (with the little gloss black B-pillar accent pieces), Kicker Bi-Amped 800w RMS stereo with all kicker speakers and 2-10"s in the trunk.(they fit perfect between the strut towers). Stock head unit remains for steering wheel control function retention and for fooling thieves. Also, all interior and even license plate tag lights are LED and red to match the I/P and other interior lights. I have a drop-in K&N Filter as well. Lastly, OEM rear spoiler painted matching factory color, and factory mud guards I found on e-bay on the cheap at the same time I ordered the spoiler.

Miles: 46,560
Warranty repairs: 1
Explanation:
The high pressure fuel pump died at 42k. There was a recall and I had the work done, however it was only 2 weeks before she died regardless. Fortunately, the Optima 2.4 also has a low pressure fuel pump that allowed me to still drive it to the dealer for service. It is there for fuel economy at low engine loads but it FELT like NASA type redundancy. I was very proud I was not left stranded and it did not impact any activities except the 1.5 hours it took to put in a new pump for free, and change the oil.

Minor Irritation: Center console latch has partially broken twice. This means one screw came out and only one remained. I am a big guy and use it constantly so I chalk it up to partially my fault....but I bet it would not have happened in an Accord or a Camry. Both times replaced under warranty. I did not add it to warranty repairs because the console latch did still function and it was really over-used as I fool with my Vape unit and previously cigarettes before I quit smoking.

Condition: I went to look at the 2015 Mustang and drove the Ecoboost Premium 6 speed stick.
Their appraiser gave it a "Good" and offered me $14,000. I owe $2,100 but after bringing the kids to test the back seats, we were alarmed that the Ford design team apparently forgot that people,.,,,even kids, have legs. I was then unable to buy the car, although sawing legs off did cross my mind. LOL.

Hint: if you have a mid-life muscle car crisis but also have kids...the Challenger has real seats and the Charger IMO is a prettier car now and has 4 doors AND real seats.

Performance: Still strong though 200 HP is just adequate. Northing much more.


Looking for DEQ info (Emissions) right now so I can get my tags before they expire at the end of the month. No problems anticipated.

It has been a great car. I love it still.

Mr_Shiftright

Thanks for the long-term comments! Was it easy to notice the pump failure? Does it throw a warning light or ...??

Sandman6472

Drove a brand new 2016 Sonata and Optima today and give the interior of the Sonata the win here but prefer the exterior of the Optima. Both very nice vehicles and acceleration is excellent in both. The dash of the Sonata was just nicer looking with ergonomics just about perfect. Seems like Hyundai/Kia is improving leaps and bounds over the Camry and Accord which is a good thing as maybe the Japanese twins will up their game, finally.
Like the suttle changes of the Altima and even liked the new Fusions I saw. Still waiting to drive the new Renegade but we did get a whole bunch in by the airport. Saw new Jetta S's with the 1.4t engines but was perplexed about the tires/rims combos. Some had 17" ones while the other half had 18"ers on really nice alloys. Up until this year, all the Jetta's have had hub caps whether they be "S" or "SE" version. For those who do not mind purchasing ex-rentals, once these go up for sale, they should be very happy people. Still haven't seen any 2016 Malibu's yet but figure once January 1st comes and goes, they'll start popping up in the new car receiving area.
Guess Hertz really is stepping up and getting much needed new iron into our fleet. Today we made several trips to the maintenance area and picked up some very nice vehicles for our HLE locations which is very good for our customers since we are the only store out west in Southwest Broward County.

The Sandman

imidazol97

sandman_6472 said:

D Still haven't seen any 2016 Malibu's yet but figure once January 1st comes and goes, they'll start popping up in the new car receiving area.
Guess Hertz really is stepping up and getting much needed new iron into our fleet. Today we made several trips to the maintenance area and picked up some very nice vehicles for our HLE locations which is very good for our customers since we are the only store out west in Southwest Broward County.

I enjoy reading your impressions of various cars, even though many I am not familiar with. I am glad to see you mentioned the Malibu. But I believe the Malibu Limited is being continued for the 2016 model year for the rental market. The new Malibu with the 1.5L turbo engine won't go into the fleet/rental area for a while. The 2016 Malibu Limited is the 2015 with a few downgrades in some options but they look the same externally. The dealers have been getting them in to sell for months. I still haven't found a dealer who has a 2016 Malibu in this area.

nyccarguy

@cski - thanks for checking back in. Good to see you've still got the Optima. Great color & a slick looking car. So many times when car shopping or car looking practicality wins over everything else. I've said on other forums here that I'm very happy with my 2015 Legacy. Like you (with your Optima), I find its 175 horsepower engine's power adequate. Does it blast onto the highway with reckless abandon? Uh.... no. It does just fine keeping up with rush hour traffic. I set my cruise at 70 and usually don't go faster unless I've got to pass.

I look at a car like a Fusion Titanium AWD, price it out with every possible incentive and the best lease rates. Or an Acura TLX V6 AWD. I'm sure I'd like either car. The Fusion would cost a little less than my current $405.07 payment, while the Acura's lease payment would be a little higher. But then I'd have to watch my miles, fork over an extra $1000 up front (bank fee & new plates), and figure out what I'm going to do 3 years from now (when I would have the Legacy for 4 years). I've started to pay extra towards the Legacy and once our Pilot is paid off in May, I can double up on my Legacy payments.

berri

Hopefully, the slow roll out means GM is being careful not to incur any negative surprises in the press on this one. I'm a little concerned that they have put all their eggs in the direct ignition, turbo 4 cylinder basket.

Sandman6472

Drove a 2016 Sonata yesterday and was very impressed. Similar dashboard to the Optima though liked the steering wheel controls and the radio better in the Sonata. Radio display is much cleaner with multiple station choices that was somewhat easy to set favorite stations. Seating material was quite good and should stand up well in day to day driving, especially liked the front headrest design. No problem getting up to speed on 595 as I left the Ft. Lauderdale airport area and it drove really nice. Steering was straight and true and there was ample power when needed to pass on the expressway. All in all, a total win for Hyundai/Kia here. 2016 Optima I drove recently drove almost the same so really a toss up here as to which one a person purchases if the choice is between these two. Figuring that the fleet models are the base cars of most that Hertz purchases and would just think the upper level vehicles would have extra/better creature comforts. But these two vehicles are very very good mid sized vehicles and I wouldn't have an issue owning either if we needed such a big vehicle.

The Sandman

Sandman6472

Can't wait to go to work tomorrow to see what new vehicles have arrived at the drop off area by the airport. New transports are arriving daily and there are vehicles parked all over just waiting to be put into the system to be rented. Being that winter break starts in just two weeks from now, things are going into overdrive to get these vehicles on the road. Have not seen any of the new Tucson's yet being the new 2016 models are out. Figure it's just a matter of time before these make it to the lot. Sure they will drive just like the outgoing model I used to own...Hyundai did a great job with the new model at least on the exterior as I've yet to see the inside. The new Sante Fe I have driven do look good inside and out and am sure the new Tucson will just mimic the interior of the Sante Fe. It's basically a 3/4 Sante Fe as it is.
The new Jeep Cherokee drives really well and I see that there are many new Jeep Compass's at the lot now. Like the size but think with the new Renegade there also, there is no longer a need for the Compass since it is a bit bare bones inside and not that comfortable to drive. If I were to buy, I'd definitely skip the Compass and get the Renegade as it is a nicer looking vehicle and is fresh looking to be honest. Doubt Jeep sells that many Compass's in the first place especially with all the negatives.

The Sandman

backy

I see the IIHS Top Safety Pick+ list is out for 2016, and several mid-sized family sedans made the list:

Chrysler 200
Honda Accord
Mazda 6
Subaru Legacy
Toyota Camry
Volkswagen Jetta
Volkswagen Passat

Interesting how IIHS considers the Jetta to be "mid-sized." Notably absent from the list are the Fusion, all-new Malibu (a Malibu "only available to fleets" made the Top Safety Pick list, not Pick+), all-new Optima, nearly-new Sonata, and the Altima. Special shame should be heaped on GM and Hyundai/Kia for their new or nearly-new designs not ace-ing the latest safety tests. Funny how the low-volume Mazda 6 and Legacy can get on this list, and some of the Big Boys can't figure out how to do it.

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/desktopnews/small-overlap-crash-protection-front-crash-prevention-key-to-2016-awards-48-models-earn-top-safety-pick-award-13-earn-top-safety-pick

On a side note, I was glad to see the Mazda 3 make the Pick+ list for small cars. It's looking more and more likely that will be my next car (2014-5 model, 6M, red) when I'm in the market again a little over a year from now.

explorerx4

Although it initially confused me, one thing about my Fusion I have come to appreciate is the hill descent feature.
It shuts off the fuel and will downshift at least up to 2 gears to help maintain your speed.
You tap the brakes to set the speed and it takes over. You may gain some speed, but it really saves the brakes.

suydam

I drove the automatic version of the 3 a couple of months ago. Loved it! It might replace my Accord in a couple of years. I like how the hatch and sedan have almost identical profiles.

Sandman6472

Think the 3 is just awkward looking with it's huge hood and short rear deck...just looks out of sync to me. The wife almost got another but the smallish speedo on the 2.5 version killed it for her. She also didn't like the infotainment set up though it's almost identical to the one in her A3. And it was I who suggested the A3 as she thought the 3 was a tad too big for her this time around. The dealerships are across the street from each other with the Audi store within our development, so store distance was not an issue.
Funny, I've seen more A3's down here than 3's for some reason. And at Hertz, have not seen any of the new 3 or 6 for that matter and the last generation few that we had are few and far between now. Surprised they aren't more prevalent in our fleet lately but that could change I'm sure.

The Sandman

akirby

IIHS keeps upping the requirements for top safety pick every year. Some vehicles that were top picks last year and have not changed are not top picks this year. Therefore I don't put much stock in these ratings.

suydam

I drove the 2016 which has the new infotainment system. It's terrific. What I like about the hood is that you can clearly see where it ends. My Accord I'm always guessing how close to the concrete curb it is when parking. And it turns on a dime. But I'm a bit partial to Mazdas, having owned a few over the years.