Midsize Sedans 2.0

Mr_Shiftright

Thanks, but one caution...I didn't buy it and don't own it, so I can't attest to how it would endure in the hands of someone who drives pretty hard. The boys here tell me that dealers will discount pretty nicely on the Fusion and that also influenced me. I rent quite a bit so I get a taste of this n' that. I guess what I'm saying is that the Fusion at least had some kind of personality. I felt that if I was blindfolded and taken for a ride in it, I could pick it out from the others in the rental fleet.

nyccarguy said:

By the way, anybody who knows @Mr_Shiftright knows that "I just finished renting a Fusion Titanium for a week. It is a very sharp car for the money." Is a ringing endorsement.  He's an enthusiast through & through.

nyccarguy

suydam said:

I care. I'm sure the price of gas will increase in the future, but it isn't just price. I would like to be a more careful consumer of the planet's resources. I do think these are the vehicles of the future.

I know.  I'm just breakin chops!

benjaminh

Dec. midsize car sales:

Camry 37,299

Accord 35,056

Altima 29,462

Fusion 25,576

Sonata 22,820

Optima 13,682

Malibu 12,155

200 8,579

Legacy 5,759

Mazda6 4,168

stickguy

Legacy moving up. And Passat just disappeared!

ab348

stickguy said:

Legacy moving up. And Passat just disappeared!

And we always know where to find the Mazda 6 too.

suydam

No surprises there.

Mr_Shiftright

Why doesn't the Mazda6 do better? Is it the engine?

stickguy

Small dealer network and ad budget. It's a very nice call, just a niche player. The 4 cyl is as good or better than the competition, and even models that offer a bigger engine have overwhelming sales of the base motor.

Also more sporty, so not great for typical Camry appliance buyer.

andres3

stickguy said:

Small dealer network and ad budget. It's a very nice call, just a niche player. The 4 cyl is as good or better than the competition, and even models that offer a bigger engine have overwhelming sales of the base motor.

Also more sporty, so not great for typical Camry appliance buyer.

Sounds like there's a need for the Mazda Speed 6 again, they probably could eliminate the standard 4 cylinder to optimize costs for a better engine. Also, they should go back to offering luxury like 4 year bumper to bumper warranties instead of the pedestrian 3 year/36K mile version.

stickguy

No one bought the previous speed 6 though. Hurt somewhat because it was manual trans only.

Michaell

stickguy said:

No one bought the previous speed 6 though. Hurt somewhat because it was manual trans only.

There are rumors that the new turbo 4 in the CX-9 may find its way into the 6 sedan as well shortly. Something like 250HP.

Will it come with a stick shift? Magic 8 ball says future is cloudy.

Mr_Shiftright

I think the engine is just too...too....ordinary.

stickguy

What engine? The base 2.5 skyactiv? It is one of the better 4s available. Smooth, good mpg, and the 6 is quick for the class. I've driven it and it is up there with the accord, and makes Camry engine seem like a lump.

ral2167

Regarding the Fusion, any recommendation on what engine to get.. The 1.5 or the 2.0 turbo?

suydam

I drove the Mazda 3 and 6, and both are very nice cars.

m6user

Take the Altima or Camry and compare to the Mazda6. 6 is better looking, faster, gets better gas mileage, much nicer interior, is liked better by its owners than just about any other midsize car according to CR and drives better. No brainer right? Was for us. Stickguy nailed it. It is niche and much, much smaller company. The 3 is their bread and butter with CX-5 coming in 2nd. They sell about as many 6's as they can make and send over from Japan. Legacy doesn't sell a whole lot more. Same story to some degree......very good car but kind of niche.

Mr_Shiftright

The Mazda engine is 184 HP, so it's not strong for its class these days.

suydam

Same as the Honda Accord which is plenty for me, and sells quite well. And the handling and maneuverability are much better. But yes, if you like MORE POWER it probably isn't for you.

explorerx4

Regarding a Fusion, I'll chime in, since I have a 2013. The 2.0 is considered to be the better engine, but drive each an make up your own mind. I like power of the 2.0 on the hills we have. Fusion is heavier than most of the competition, so it's not going to be quite as fuel efficient. I have the Titanium model, so it's got a lot of bells and whistles.

Michaell

suydam said:

Same as the Honda Accord which is plenty for me, and sells quite well. And the handling and maneuverability are much better. But yes, if you like MORE POWER it probably isn't for you.

And more than the Camry (178) or Legacy (175).

Perfectly adequate. If the lease deals are as good this fall as they have been the last few months, it could be a serious contender for my next ride.

stickguy

I came real close last summer to get one for me or my daughter. Just ended up making more sense to get her the Jetta. Leases were a lot higher last year when I got my Sonata though

brian125

m6user said:

Take the Altima or Camry and compare to the Mazda6. 6 is better looking, faster, gets better gas mileage, much nicer interior, is liked better by its owners than just about any other midsize car according to CR and drives better. No brainer right? Was for us. Stickguy nailed it. It is niche and much, much smaller company. The 3 is their bread and butter with CX-5 coming in 2nd. They sell about as many 6's as they can make and send over from Japan. Legacy doesn't sell a whole lot more. Same story to some degree......very good car but kind of niche.

Agree with a lot what your saying on the Mazda front . Here is the flip side to the mazda6 and probably why sales are lagging. Small market . Better leased deals on the other vehicles . Buyers who don't like driven a 4cyl. Folks buying have a lot of good choice in segment with Altima, Accord, Sonata all close in MPG's all bigger inside including Fusion than the 6 . Mazda's Front seats and quarters are very tight inside cabin for bigger people. I hit my head getting in / out of the mazda6 every time. Wind / Cabin noise is terrible. ( always been a problem with Mazda's ) Front seat comfort. Back seat . The family guy does not want this vehicle.

I agree ride and handling is exceptional in the Mazda6 just isn't appealing to most family midsize sedan buyers.

Go after that younger driver that might not want to pay BMW prices. With some better marketing and tweaking the zoom could be the answer.

suydam

Especially now that the interior and tech is actually nicer than the other midsizers.

nyccarguy

benjaminh said:

Dec. midsize car sales:

Camry 37,299

Accord 35,056

Altima 29,462

Fusion 25,576

Sonata 22,820

Optima 13,682

Malibu 12,155

200 8,579

Legacy 5,759

Mazda6 4,168

In my opinion, there is nothing that the Mazda 6 does that is so amazing. Yes it handles great & comes with a stick shift, but that's not enough to set it apart from the pack. Your Camry & Accord buyers are always going to buy Camrys & Accords. The people who want AWD (yours truly included) are going to buy a Legacy.

So now you've got your undecided shopper who wants something different. Your 1st stop is the Nissan dealer. You see a lot of Altimas on the road. Depending on what you are looking for, it is hard to say no to a cheap lease or mega discount & cheap financing. The 3.5L V6 isn't the best seller, but is still an option.

The Sonata & Optima also offer a nice looking package, great mpg, BIG discounts, & cheap leases, plus a turbo motor option.

The Fusion? Gorgeous. No slouch in the performance department with the optional 2.0 Turbo engine. Big discounts & lots of rebates.

Then you head to your Mazda store. You've read all the magazine comparos, you are an enthusiast, you dig the styling, the interior is top rate. There aren't so many Mazda dealers as the others, so you are offered a good deal, but nothing that blows you out of the water. The 185hp motor is adequate, but doesn't exactly go zoom zoom.

What does Mazda need to do to win more buyers? Offer AWD as an option. Offer a turbo motor with 250 - 260 hp.

stickguy

I believe that Mazda also doesn't have capacity to make a ton more 6's for the US anyway. Certainly could never compete with the 1/4 million sellers. Dealer network is kinda small too.

but, yes, it is for a certain type of buyer. Enthusiasts? People that like what BMWs used to be, and are on a budget?

Takes all kinds.

suydam

Mazda is a smaller market player with fewer dealers nationwide. It's overall sales are up. I think they're doing just fine. Like everybody else, they're selling fewer midsize sedans and more crossovers.

nyccarguy

suydam said:

Mazda is a smaller market player with fewer dealers nationwide. It's overall sales are up. I think they're doing just fine. Like everybody else, they're selling fewer midsize sedans and more crossovers.

This is true.  Their sales are up, they are small but profitable.  Obviously the volume matters, but they don't need to try and sell 400,000 + Camrys like Toyota does.

brian125

Wasn't Mazda's rotary engines Rx8 / Rx7 vehicles somewhat fast? If I'm correct back then Mazda's sold plenty of these cars. Low end torque and mpg's were the knock on them. Never drove one but did drive a couple of 1995 / 1996 Nissan 300zx. Very fast vehicles handled great. I have seen only 1 in the last 10 years and remember thinking how small it looked.............. but what a car..

stickguy

I drove an RX-8. Way much fun. Just very different than normal cars.

Michaell

stickguy said:

I drove an RX-8. Way much fun. Just very different than normal cars.

My sister owned an '85 RX-7 for a while in the late 80's and early 90's. Didn't get to drive it near as much as I wanted to, but 100HP was never so much fun - along with the 7000 RPM redline. Bounced off it quite a bit when I did drive it.

explorerx4

I wouldn't be surprised if the number of AWD Fusions sold is fairly close to the Legacy numbers.

stickguy

for all the obsession in some areas about AWD, it is interesting that of the top 8 on the list, only the Fusion even offers AWD.

explorerx4

If you go to the next level up(entry level luxury), lots of AWD choices.

pjm83

Michaell said:

stickguy said:

I drove an RX-8. Way much fun. Just very different than normal cars.

My sister owned an '85 RX-7 for a while in the late 80's and early 90's. Didn't get to drive it near as much as I wanted to, but 100HP was never so much fun - along with the 7000 RPM redline. Bounced off it quite a bit when I did drive it.

Did it have an alarm for approaching redline? I've seen some videos that indicated at least some did.

I'd love to drive one myself... a great concept for a sports car, it seems,

brian125

1985 RX7 37k orig. miles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWrxf_oTWJ4

brian125

If @stickguy cleans out his shed we could slide this in for him put a nice bow on it.

Michaell

pjm83 said:

Michaell said:

stickguy said:

I drove an RX-8. Way much fun. Just very different than normal cars.

My sister owned an '85 RX-7 for a while in the late 80's and early 90's. Didn't get to drive it near as much as I wanted to, but 100HP was never so much fun - along with the 7000 RPM redline. Bounced off it quite a bit when I did drive it.

Did it have an alarm for approaching redline? I've seen some videos that indicated at least some did.

I'd love to drive one myself... a great concept for a sports car, it seems,

I believe there was a buzzer when it hit redline. First time I was able to drift a car, in the hills between Ojai and Santa Barbara. At night.

Michaell

brian125 said:

1985 RX7 37k orig. miles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWrxf_oTWJ4

Brian, that looks exactly Like my sisters car. Color and all. She cried the day she sold it.

Edit - oh god, it's a slush box. My sister had the presence of mind to get a stick shift.

stickguy

brian125 said:

If @stickguy cleans out his shed we could slide this in for him put a nice bow on it.

Happy to throw out the mower for this. Though the shed is only 8x12, so still might be a problem.

garage is clean though. Happy to put my wife's car in the driveway to fit this in.

stickguy

I actually really love the 2nd gen 1/2 convertible. Almost bought one of them as a toy some years back but missed out. One of the many "just misses" over the years!

Mr_Shiftright

They also made the RX-7 twin turbo---a somewhat fragile powerplant but that car was very fast in their day.

Jaguar works off very small volume and seems to survive.

Michaell

Mr_Shiftright said:

They also made the RX-7 twin turbo---a somewhat fragile powerplant but that car was very fast in their day.

Jaguar works off very small volume and seems to survive.

But, Jaguar is owned by a large conglomerate so they don't need huge volumes to fund their R&D.

Mazda is a stand alone entity.

Mr_Shiftright

But hardly a boutique carmaker. Mazda sells well over 1 million vehicles worldwide annually.

m6user

Mazda also has alliances with Toyota and Fiat sharing platforms, etc.

roadburner

The only reason I'm not buying another Mazda is their failure to offer any Mazdaspeed models. I like the Miata, but I already have one momentum car- and anyway, I can't take a convertible to a BMW CCA HPDE. I was hoping that the oft-rumored 300+ hp AWD MS3 would actually be in the pipeline by now, but apparently it isn't...

Mr_Shiftright

they didn't announce it in Frankfurt like they were supposed to....so 2017 may be just a dream.

andres3

Didn't Mazda used to be influenced in a negative way with partial Ford ownership? I think that was the reason for the worst in class interiors and V6 engines in the old Mazda 6's or 626's.

suydam

Yes. The bad old Mazda days. Thankfully gone. 

litesong2

Love the terrain you travel, enough to slow down & enjoy the views longer. Set CC three mph under your normal pace. As you approach rises & shallow hills, slowly accelerate to three mph above your normal pace. As the hill tilts up, don't lose any speed or you lose the advantage of your acceleration. As the hill approaches its steepest slope, slowly decrease speed, till, as you reach the hill top flat, you are again, three mph below your normal pace & the CC takes control. If any hill is too steep to hold high gear as you ascend, shift to lower gears BEFORE you reach the hill. Also, Elantra responds from 6% to 8% higher mpg, by using 100% ethanol-free gasoline(E0). Pump tires to 40psi. There are other methods & it pays to use them. Our 2013 auto & 2016 manual Elantras average 39mpg with 15% city driving & using E0. Both Elantras have reached 43mpg & 46mpg.

litesong2

akirby said:

seems transmission problems are more common now whether they're CVTs, DCTs or conventional automatics.

Auto trannies are very complicated. If you plan to have your car 100,000+ miles, expect an auto tranny $4000 repair bill. We have a 6spd auto 2013 Elantra that is wonderful. But, now we also have a 6spd manual Elantra too. I'll tell you which car has its first tranny repair & how much.