Midsize Sedans 2.0

stickguy

Or RDX is bad too with a 16 gallon tank. By 300 miles I'm getting antsy. 350 probably has me in full blown sweats.

That's a great thing about the Sonota. Big tank, good highway mpg. Often will fill up and TC resets to 500+. Good for trips to NC which is about 450 miles each way. We are going in May, but taking the Acura, so I know I have to stop midway to pump gas.

akirby

A 1 mpg difference in a 16 gallon tank is only a 16 mile difference per tank.

I guarantee if you found a car you like you wouldn't worry whether it got 33 or 34 mpg highway.

m6user

Please, I did not say that 1 mpg would change someone's vehicle choice unless everything else was equal which in car buying we all know isn't the case. I just said that manufacturers would consider any change that results in a 1 mpg savings as substantial. Add in other mpg saving methods and all of a sudden you get several mpg difference which helps in their cafe ratings and would affect sales positively.

stickguy

More of an issue when you are getting 25!

This is a big advantage to most mid size cars vs. their compact siblings. Almost the same highway MPG real world, but 50% larger tank capacity.

suydam

You get better MPG around town with the compacts, however.

stickguy

Usually. But at least to me, the range around town is less than an issue, but accord to civic or Elantra to sonata, probably still at least a wash.

m6user

@stickguy
Our RDX gets about 28-30 straight freeway driving. I bet if you filled up as you leave and drove conservatively you could make or come very close to making it. If you're driving at 75-80......forget it. If you could find some leaded gas I'm pretty sure you could make it easily. I bought a tank in northern Michigan once and couldn't believe what a difference it made.

akirby

I think you meant 100% gasoline as opposed to E-10, not leaded gas. We haven't had leaded gas since the early 70s.

akirby

m6user said:

Please, I did not say that 1 mpg would change someone's vehicle choice unless everything else was equal which in car buying we all know isn't the case. I just said that manufacturers would consider any change that results in a 1 mpg savings as substantial. Add in other mpg saving methods and all of a sudden you get several mpg difference which helps in their cafe ratings and would affect sales positively.

I agree, I was only pointing out the 300 lb weight difference from the owner's standpoint.

stickguy

I have had legs where the TC broke 30. And yes, I hyper mile it! Not driving slow or drafting. Just trying to keep it in VCM shut down mode as much as possible. On that run, I'm doing 70-75 all the way though. Or stopped dead on 95. Two basic modes.

If traffic is bad, might get 25 on the run. Usually I can hit 28ish. Still, too low for a 16 gallon tank!

berri

I dunno, if fuel economy was such an issue to most American buyers, why is it that the incentives are on the cars while many dealers lots can't keep many SUV's in stock? I think the importance of fuel economy for most ebbs and wanes based on gasoline prices. Most vehicles get decent mileage these days. I believe the gov increased the fuel consumption requirements in the last few years to appease their political base. Unfortunately, that is going to lead to price increases down the road because many of the lighter materials and applicable technology cost more to produce.

suydam

I don't claim to speak for most buyers. I'm simply stating that it's important to me. And not just because of gas prices. I may not be in the majority, but I'm not the only one.

berri

I was only referring to the broad topic. I'm sure there is a segment that shares your preferences, I'm just not sure that is the majority market buyer position today.

Michaell

berri said:

I was only referring to the broad topic. I'm sure there is a segment that shares your preferences, I'm just not sure that is the majority market buyer position today.

IMO, it's because gas prices are low and folks have more disposable income to devote to gas, they'll gravitate to something that gets worse mileage - be it the V6 option, or a larger SUV rather than a 'cute ute'.

When gas prices get north of $3/gal again, all those folks will want to dump the (relative) gas guzzlers and move into hybrids or more fuel economy models, losing their shirts on the trade in the process.

Which is why I'm hoping gas prices stay low through the summer, so that when I'm back in the market there will be large incentives on the fuel sippers I'll be looking at.

andres3

akirby said:

Automakers deal in tenth of a mpg for CAFE. Owners wouldn't notice the difference. On the F150 it's just as much about payload capacity as mpg. Plus that was 700 lbs not 300.

Just saying it wouldn't be a drastic change that the average driver would even notice.

I've heard 100 lbs. can make a 1 MPG difference. Also, 300 lbs, will definitely increase your tire and brake wear rates.

My S4 eats tires and brakes like no other. Part of it is sheer speed, but part of it is all that freaking weight. Also, the spirited driver will notice 300 lbs easily when travelling winding roads. It just feels like more "WORK" to push a heavy Camaro through twisties than "fun" like a 3,300 lb car.

andres3

akirby said:

m6user said:

If 300 lbs resulted in a 1 mpg difference that is substantial. I think you're talking about ride, handling and acceleration which may not be of much import to the average driver. Someone who really pushes their car and is acutely aware of performance would probably notice on or off the track.

You think an EPA rating of 22 vs. 23 or 34 vs. 35 really makes a difference in a car buying decision?
I think not.

And I understand there are people who spend thousands of dollars for tiny gains in power and/or handling. For them 300 lbs is probably a big deal. But not for the other 99.99%.

Might be more than a 1 MPG impact. But mostly, if someone looks at 1 extra MPG, and sees that it gets 50 extra HP at the same time, that 1 MPG could make the difference in someone's purchase decision. It would be a combination of things.

I know when choosing a V6 Accord over a 4 cylinder long ago I rationalized it as only 3 MPG, but I was gaining a lot of HP in exchange. It has to be taken in context. Lighter weight improves EVERYTHING.

berri

Well Michaell, it sure looks like Wall Street and London are playing with oil futures again, so if that keeps up I may get a good deal down the road on a crossover The world is awash with oil, but prices are shooting up - I'm sure that's just the competitive "free' marketplace and honest capitalism at work!

ab348

berri said:

Well Michaell, it sure looks like Wall Street and London are playing with oil futures again, so if that keeps up I may get a good deal down the road on a crossover The world is awash with oil, but prices are shooting up - I'm sure that's just the competitive "free' marketplace and honest capitalism at work!

The sharpies love an opportunity and the low oil prices must have seemed irresistible. OK by me. My retirement portfolio was down by about 10% from where it was last summer before all the foolishness began, but now I am only down 4%-5%. I hope they keep it up for a while.

Michaell

berri said:

Well Michaell, it sure looks like Wall Street and London are playing with oil futures again, so if that keeps up I may get a good deal down the road on a crossover The world is awash with oil, but prices are shooting up - I'm sure that's just the competitive "free' marketplace and honest capitalism at work!

I've notice the price at the pump has gone up about $.40/gal in the past few weeks.

Which reminds me .. I need to fill up today.

suydam

Michaell said:

berri said:

I was only referring to the broad topic. I'm sure there is a segment that shares your preferences, I'm just not sure that is the majority market buyer position today.

IMO, it's because gas prices are low and folks have more disposable income to devote to gas, they'll gravitate to something that gets worse mileage - be it the V6 option, or a larger SUV rather than a 'cute ute'.

When gas prices get north of $3/gal again, all those folks will want to dump the (relative) gas guzzlers and move into hybrids or more fuel economy models, losing their shirts on the trade in the process.

Which is why I'm hoping gas prices stay low through the summer, so that when I'm back in the market there will be large incentives on the fuel sippers I'll be looking at.

Then why are the "cute ute" and compact SUVs the fastest growing market segment?

Michaell

suydam said:

I was only referring to the broad topic. I'm sure there is a segment that shares your preferences, I'm just not sure that is the majority market buyer position today.

IMO, it's because gas prices are low and folks have more disposable income to devote to gas, they'll gravitate to something that gets worse mileage - be it the V6 option, or a larger SUV rather than a 'cute ute'. When gas prices get north of $3/gal again, all those folks will want to dump the (relative) gas guzzlers and move into hybrids or more fuel economy models, losing their shirts on the trade in the process. Which is why I'm hoping gas prices stay low through the summer, so that when I'm back in the market there will be large incentives on the fuel sippers I'll be looking at.

Then why are the "cute ute" and compact SUVs the fastest growing market segment?

 I suspect it is because people do not want "pedestrian" sedans and hatchbacks 

berri

Those "cute utes" (I like that term!) are interesting. You have this reputation of practical and economical, yet our CRV really doesn't get that much different mileage than one of our kid's Highlander. Most difference in heavy traffic urban driving, but not all that huge. On the open highway sometimes the Highlander beats the CRV (maybe because a 4 banger is underpowered in fast, windy, or hilly road terrain given the higher profile of all SUV's creating more drag, along with extra awd weight?). To me, the biggest advantages to the CRV are it's smaller size is easier to maneuver and park, and it's lower price results in less out of pocket depreciation. Both are very good vehicles though.

stickguy

I think the real benefit is the utility/flexibility part. we replaced an Odyssey with the RDX. lost a lot of total cargo capacity, but we still needed/wanted something that could handle bulky items when needed. Plus, my wife had gotten used to, and liked having, the higher seating position and sight lines.

berri

My wife prefers that too. Maybe we're just, let's call it "less mature"

Mr_Shiftright

I believe there was some survey done about women drivers in SUVs and a high seating position was right at the top of the list for preferences.

Michaell

Mr_Shiftright said:

I believe there was some survey done about women drivers in SUVs and a high seating position was right at the top of the list for preferences.

 I don't think my wife will ever go back to a "regular" car for that specific reason. 

brian125

Seems like as most of us get older driving at night seems a lot harder than when were younger. Sitting higher up with a Suv/ cross over is what I like best these days. Rainy nights I hate driven. These new safety features arriving in most vehicles this year and next will help keep accidents and fatality's down. Just read Edmunds review on refreshed 16 Sentra . The seat position is higher up.
Good for a short person maybe not so for a taller person.

backy

I took in the Greater Twin Cities Auto Show today. It should be called the Lesser Twin Cities Auto Show as it wasn't deemed important enough to have the NSX on display. I focused on compacts as that's what I'm in the market for right now, to replace my 2013 Rio5 when it comes off lease if I don't buy it. But I checked out most of the mid-sized sedans, including the new Malibu (nice looking, and 22-32 mpg was really great for a mid-sized sedan... in 2010) and the Mazda6, which was in my favorite color, red. I really liked the updated interior, which IMO is now best-in-class. I figured I was sitting in at least a Touring trim, the interior was so nice. Also the car had sharp-looking alloys. When I got out and looked at the window sticker, I was shocked that it was the base trim! If I needed that big of a car I'd have it at the top of my list, with the Accord, Legacy, and Sonata right up there also.

Compact-wise, I was most impressed by the new Civic (sharp looking, improved interior, tons of legroom in back). The Jetta 1.4T is a nice package also with a huge rear seat and trunk and I'll bet there's deals to be had on those right now. The Elantra GT remains a favorite, but I'd go the used route on that since the 2016 base models have been decontented and I could get a certified 2014 with the 100k warranty.

imidazol97

backy said:

... including the new Malibu (nice looking, and 22-32 mpg was really great for a mid-sized sedan... in 2010)

Of course, you realized that was for the 2.0 T engine? 22-33 highway. Not bad for a car that will pull teeth. It's closely related to the 2.0 T in ATS, CTS, Camaro, and Regal. (LTG,259 hp and 295 lb-ft).

The standard engine, 1.6 Liter T, is 27 city and 37 highway, equal to the others. My '14 Malibu does about 4 over its highway rating on level interstate driving around our area so I'd extrapolate the 16 Malibu will do better than its 37 rating on level interstate at rated speeds.

suydam

It probably will. My '13 Accord is similarly rated and it's not unusual for me to get 40 mpg long interstate trips.

akirby

Michaell said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

I believe there was some survey done about women drivers in SUVs and a high seating position was right at the top of the list for preferences.

 I don't think my wife will ever go back to a "regular" car for that specific reason. 

Ditto. It make them "feel" safer for some reason.

suydam

I like the higher seating because these days it can be hard to tell where the nose of the car ends! Kinda miss those old hood ornaments.

berri

Back end can be no picnic either sometimes

stickguy

with the terrible rear visibility these days (cars and CUVs) being so common, you pretty much must have some electronic help to know what is going on behind you. especially the CUVs with pinched windows.

benjaminh

midsize sales for March....

Camry 36,991

Altima 34,856

Accord 30,523

Fusion 29,675

Sonata 28,778

Malibu 22,058

Optima 11,725

200 6,176

Passat 6,097

Legacy 5,551

Mazda6 4,094 -45.9%

benjaminh

Some of the next group down are also "midsize" by the EPA classification, including Civic, Corolla, Sentra, etc.

Civic 32,855

Corolla 32,556

Sentra 26,201

Focus 18,618

Elantra 17,505

Jetta 10,472

Forte 10,406

Cruze 9,881

Mazda3 7,307

Dart 5,349

Impreza 5,193

stickguy

Sonata had a good month p.

And how the heck does Nissan move so many altimas and sentras?

akirby

stickguy said:

And how the heck does Nissan move so many altimas and sentras?

As of 2015 Altima was over 25% rental fleet and over $4K incentives.

stickguy

That will do it!

brian125

Just heard Tesler's new model 3 has pre sold almost 280k units already. With a starting sticker of 35k I'd bet there is close to 15k in option's to add on. When this model is in production that number could double.

What I'd like to know is with the A/C or heat on along with other accessories that 215 miles range may be 190 on long trips??? I golf with someone in NY who has the bigger S model 2015, he loves it. Raves about it. He was telling me about not getting the larger tires 21' cause it decrease's the range close to 3%. lol.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/tesla-model-elon-musk-teases-details-pre-orders/story?id=38136528

akirby

I think you mean IF it makes it to production. It's still almost 2 years away and Tesla will have to do some serious fund-raising to make it that far.

nyccarguy

I can't believe the Passat outsold my Legacy!  Cmon Subaru!

stickguy

probably the huge discounts. subaru doesn't cheap sell like that.

nyccarguy

stickguy said:

probably the huge discounts. subaru doesn't cheap sell like that.

True.  Part of the reason they seem to have tha whole good resale value thing going for them.

andres3

VW seems to be giving away Passats and Jettas in order to keep up sales despite the diesel debacle.

Golf R's seem to sell pretty darn fast though, and pretty much at sticker or close to it still.

berri

I'm thinking VW had some Passat and Jetta issues before that. They seem to have dumb downed and applied a generic paintbrush to some of these newer models.

stickguy

that was intentional. They "Americanized" both models to a large extent. Basically stripped content, and made bigger. Still had a decent amount of German DNA in there, just buried under a layer of Buick. They did make some revisions to get them back to being a bit more Euro though.

iluvmysephia1

Sentra 26,201


Sentra a mid-size? Huh? The Sentra looks like a compant sedan, not a mid-sizer. And how do they sell? Rebates, eh?

jpp75

How many of the Malibus are the new model versus the "classic"? The new Malibu looks good and probably isn't a bad car, but good luck stealing sales away from anyone above them.

brian125

I like the 2016 Sentra its a nice small sedan with plenty of room inside. The engine is underpowered. 0-60 10.1 sec. Overall a very nice car

Nissan has lease cash of $1050. Customer cash $1000 right now.