Midsize Sedans 2.0

andres3

brian125 said:

Little off topic here but a nice plug for GM. Bumped into a plumber this morning at a deli in Staten Island, NY he was driving a 2006 Pontiac Vibe with 310k miles. No major problems original owner motor and Trans. I was impressed until I found out the Vibe shared the Toyota matrix Chassis and powertrain.

His biggest compliant was the Gm radio that died 2 years ago that he needed to replace. I think he got his moneys worth out of this vehicle.

The Vibe was a Toyota Matrix with a new badge, and the Geo Prism was a Corolla. Hence why they are the two most durable GM products ever made

akirby

brian125 said:

In all my years kicking car talk with people......... 310,000 thousand miles is by far the most miles I ever heard on one vehicle in a 10 year span.

I know an Edge owner who just sold a 2008 edge with 340K.

benjaminh

suydam said:

benjaminh said:

suydam said:

If I decide the Mazda 3 is too small, I'm getting the 6. But so far the 3 is winning.

Have you considered the new Civic as well?

I like the interior of the 3 better, and its tight turning radius. Also a hatch is always handy.

It sounds like you're decided, but comparing the Mazda3 2.5 with the Civic Turbo AutoGuide got significantly higher mpg with the Civic....

"On an identical run that included mixed city and interstate driving, we averaged 28.7 mpg in the Mazda and 36.2 mpg in the Civic, which is a huge difference."

http://www.autoguide.com/car-comparisons/2016-mazda3-vs-honda-civic

And in terms of 0-60 times, Edmunds tested the Mazda3 2.5 at 7.5, while their test of the Civic turbo had a time of 6.7.

But it's true there's nothing quite like a hatchback. And most reviews say the Mazda 3 is more fun to drive. Plus the 3 has a volume knob!

ab348

benjaminh said:

But it's true there's nothing quite like a hatchback. And most reviews say the Mazda 3 is more fun to drive. Plus the 3 has a volume nob!

Apparently you need one too, to overcome the road noise.

suydam

That's the one thing I have to check out. I like a quieter car. I did not notice road noise on my test drive-- maybe I was having too much fun-- but I will pay close attention on the next drive. That said, I have owned several Mazdas and I really loved them all. I remember Civics being quite noisy. I also want to check out the new Chevy Volt. As far as MPG that is important to me, but I'm looking at the 2.0 version and MPG is excellent there.

imidazol97

Cruze is going to have a US hatchback, finally. That's one I'll want to see.

sda

suydam said:

sda said:

The key fob battery buzzer/light just triggered today on the Accord. It has the keyless start. I guess I should expect to replace the battery every 2 1/2 years or so. I bought it 9/5/13.

Mine went out a few months ago. It's cheap to replace. However, the dealership said they should last much longer and suspects there may have been a defective batch in some of the 13s.

Before taking it to the dealer, I did a quick search on U Tube--even faster than going out to the garage and getting the owner's manual from the car. Battery replacement is very easy and I even had a spare battery CR 2032! In less than 2 minutes I replaced the battery and all is well.

stickguy

I like that Cruz.

akirby

My Fusion Titanium is very very quiet, even with the low profile 19 inch wheels.

andres3

akirby said:

My Fusion Titanium is very very quiet, even with the low profile 19 inch wheels.

the type of tire makes a huge difference. Size is a factor, but even in the exact same size try driving on Bridgestone RE-71's and then switch to Continental Extreme Contact DW's and you'll immediately hear the difference! Both performance summer tires too. The Continentals also ride nicer.

Mr_Shiftright

I had the exact same experience switching from RE-71s to the Contis.

andres3

Did your RE-71's also wear down like they were made of paper? Track people have spoken, the RE-11 might be 9/10's the performance, but you'll get 4X the track days out of them. Of course, I think this applies only to light track cars, not 2 ton speed demons (I weigh over 200 lbs) and the S4 doesn't drive itself.

I burned through both RE-11's and 71's quickly, but the 71's wore so quickly I had to track with questionable judgment on my part (starting to see visible cord).

stickguy

I already started planning for tires on the RDX (though at the pace we are putting on miles, might be another 2 years yet!). And pretty much nailed it down to Contis.

Now just have to deal with convincing the tire place to put on H instead of V (same load range) so I can get the ones I want.

Mr_Shiftright

I have to say it's possible the Bridgestones were a firmer sidewall but I still wouldn't go back to them.

benjaminh

suydam said:

That's the one thing I have to check out. I like a quieter car. I did not notice road noise on my test drive-- maybe I was having too much fun-- but I will pay close attention on the next drive. That said, I have owned several Mazdas and I really loved them all. I remember Civics being quite noisy. I also want to check out the new Chevy Volt. As far as MPG that is important to me, but I'm looking at the 2.0 version and MPG is excellent there.

In the comparison by AutoGuide abov, they did say the Civic was quieter than the Mazda3. But they also say the 3 is more fun to drive.

"One of the first things you notice after driving both cars back to back is how much more refined the Civic feels. It drives smoother, it is a lot quieter inside, and it absorbs rough roads with much more grace. The Mazda, on the other hand, feels a bit rougher around the edges, and although it feels so much more connected to the road, comfort matters to a lot more people than performance....

If driving pleasure is what matters to you the most, get the Mazda3. Its engaging drive and the way it performs and just can’t be beat in its segment. The Mazda3 is also not the obvious choice, so if you like going against the grain, a Mazda will stand out, because I guarantee that you will see Civics everywhere.

But for everything else, the Honda Civic is the better all-around car. The Civic is a bit more expensive than the Mazda, but you get more features, better fuel economy, it’s more practical, and just feels more mature and refined, which really justifies the price premium."

But actually, if you compare the turbo Civic EX-L (c.24k) to the Mazda 3 2.5 (c. 25k), it seems like the Honda is less expensive.

andres3

$25K for a naturally aspirated 4 banger? Has Mazda gone off the deep end? Inflation creeps.

benjaminh

andres3 said:

$25K for a naturally aspirated 4 banger? Has Mazda gone off the deep end? Inflation creeps.

It can go even higher than that. If you get a Mazda3 Grand Touring Hatchback with the Tech Pkg and Appearance Pkg, the total list price is over $31,000. Even the top Civic Touring tops out at 27k—and it has a turbo, full stop cruise control, etc.

From Mazda's build your own site:


My 2016 MAZDA3 s Grand Touring 5-Door MSRP $26,495
Destination Fee $820
184-hp 2.5L DOHC 16-valve inline 4-cylinder Standard
Front-Wheel Drive Standard
6-Speed Auto Standard
Colors
Exterior: SOUL RED METALLIC* change color
Interior: BLACK LEATHER change color
Packages & Options
TECHNOLOGY PACKAGE $2,600
APPEARANCE PACKAGE $1,750
SOUL RED METALLIC PAINT $300
Total MSRP: $31,965* calculate financing***

m6user

Just went to the Mazda website and priced the mazda3 5dr s GT auto red and got different numbers. $26615 without the appearance package which few people get anyway. Where is this tech pkg for $2600 and what is in it? All the tech comes standard in the Grand Touring including the heads up display.

suydam

I was looking at the itouring hatch. It has most of what I want and is WAAAY less!

andres3

benjaminh said:

andres3 said:

$25K for a naturally aspirated 4 banger? Has Mazda gone off the deep end? Inflation creeps.

It can go even higher than that. If you get a Mazda3 Grand Touring Hatchback with the Tech Pkg and Appearance Pkg, the total list price is over $31,000. Even the top Civic Touring tops out at 27k—and it has a turbo, full stop cruise control, etc.

From Mazda's build your own site:


My 2016 MAZDA3 s Grand Touring 5-Door MSRP $26,495
Destination Fee $820
184-hp 2.5L DOHC 16-valve inline 4-cylinder Standard
Front-Wheel Drive Standard
6-Speed Auto Standard
Colors
Exterior: SOUL RED METALLIC* change color
Interior: BLACK LEATHER change color
Packages & Options
TECHNOLOGY PACKAGE $2,600
APPEARANCE PACKAGE $1,750
SOUL RED METALLIC PAINT $300
Total MSRP: $31,965* calculate financing***

184 HP is good, but it's no 200+ HP turbo '06 A3, and certainly no available dual clutch DSG. Granted, even accounting for inflation my '06 A3 was a steal of a deal at similar prices to the current model Mazda 3.

benjaminh

At my local dealer you can get a Mazda3 Sport for less than $18,000. Even the msrp is only $19380. This car looks like a good deal....

New 2016 Mazda Mazda3 i Sport
VIN: JM1BM1J74G1325480 STOCK #: M10402
Engine: 2.0L 4-Cylinder
Trans: Manual
Drivetrain: FWD
Exterior: Silver
Interior: Black
HWY: 40 MPG | CITY: 29 MPG †
MSRP:
$19,380
OXMOOR PRICE:
$17,676
DISCOUNTS
$1,704

But You can get a Civic for close to that as well...

2016 Civic Sedan LX
Manual Transmission
Standard Features
$19,475
Total MSRP

Sandman6472

Drove both the Mazda3 and Civic at work this week. Both very nice though the interior of the Civic is a bit nicer and more techy. We owned a '05 Mazda 3s and loved the car as it was a blast to drive. We both considered a new 3 in late 2014 but the wife decided at the last minute to go with the A3 and since I had less to spend but wanted something similar, went with the Golf.
Seeing that you want a hatch, really love mine, go with the Mazda3 with the 2.5 engine and you'll be a very happy camper. Really in this comparo, giving the nod to the Mazda over the Civic! But think you'd enjoy either to be honest.

The Sandman

benjaminh

For decades the Accord has outsold the Civic, year after year. One month isn't necessarily a trend, but in March 32,855 Civics were sold in the US, compared with 30,523 Accords. One reason is likely that the new Civic has grown so that it's the size of an Accord from the mid 1990s. For someone wanting a smaller but still "midsize" car, the Civic now fits the bill. And while the previous generation of Civic was somewhat underpowered and slow, the turbo Civic is now faster than a 4-cylinder Accord. Plus the Civic has not just adaptive cruise control, but full-stop adaptive cruise control, which is not available on the Accord, or even an Acura—at least as far as I know. So the Civic is getting not just some previous Accord buyers, but also even getting some trade-ins of Audis, etc. I personally don't want adaptive cruise control. I want to drive my own darn car! But I guess for some it's appealing....

stickguy

the Civic now has grown enough that it fits into that large compact/small mid size category that really works for me. The new elantra I think fits in there too, along with the Jetta.

will be interested to see what other options are out 1.5 years from now (geez, that puts us into MY 2018s)

Not sure how big the new Sube imprezza is though. It did look sharp (the concept car) at the auto show.

backy

Now that the Midsize Sedans discussion has become the Compact Sedan & Hatch discussion I'll toss one in that doesn't get much attention: Forte. I got a Forte5 LX a few weeks ago to replace my off-lease Rio5. The other cars I narrowed down to were the Elantra GT (used, 2014), Mazda3 (also used, 2014), 2017 Elantra, 2016 Civic LX, 2016 Fit, and Jetta S 1.4T. My preference for a hatch put the Jetta, Elantra, and Civic at a disadvantage. What killed it for those cars was I wanted to get rid of the Rio5 painlessly and end up with low payments and nothing out of pocket, and VW, Honda, and Hyundai couldn't do a deal I liked. My Kia dealer gave me what I thought was a great deal on turning in the Rio5 two months early for the Forte5--nothing out of pocket, waived last two payments on the Rio5 (and I avoided paying for new tabs on the Rio5), and 35 payments of $185. It was a lot less payment-wise than buying the used Elantra GT or Mazda3. In fact it's costing me less per month than the Rio5 lease did, including a big reduction in insurance and some other savings.

The Forte5 doesn't handle as well as the Mazda3, but it has the same 173 hp 2.0L engine as the 2014+ Elantra GT, a comfortable, roomy, and nicely trimmed interior with lots of convenience features, and I like the styling. Also it's a very rare car... I've only seen one (in a parking lot) since I got my Forte5. (The sedans are more common.) EPA ratings aren't great, but I'm averaging 33-34 mpg overall so far (EPA 33 highway) which is only about 10% lower than I averaged, best case, with my Rio5. So I'm happy with it. I think it's worth a look for anyone looking for a compact hatchback.

suydam

Good to know. I don't think I've seen one on the road.

iluvmysephia1

backy -did you get the automatic transmission in your Kia Forte5 LX? Cool choice - congratulations. I drive a 2011 Kia Soul base clear white 5-speed stick. I love the car and feel it's solid. Kia is going great guns these days. They gave you a fantastic deal at your dealer, man!

stickguy

I drove a loaded Forte sedan (EX?). before I got the Jetta. Was surprisingly impressed by it. Would not have been a bad choice at all.

iluvmysephia1

People are slow ta the flow with Kia, stick. But let me assure you, the South Koreans are smart. Really smart. I decided ta gun my '99 Kia Sephia one day. I'd just spent a tax refund on a set of great Hankook radials and Konig Diva wheels. Man, it hit me like a ton of bricks! These South Koreans love to make affordable cars that are fun to drive. I should just stop looking and enjoy my '11 Soul or just get it over with and trade for a '16 Soul 6-speed and enjoy. The Mrs. will eventually understand the genius of it.

The only other rig I'll buy is the '16 Scion iA. There's a black one selling in Denver for only $14,395. 6-speeds and Stealth color. The only other choice to make is if you want Navigation or not. I'd say no to the navigation and go into negotiations. Our Soul goes out of Powertrain Warranty in only 2 and a half months. Good trade-in incentive. It only has 61,523 miles on it, though. The original owner gets the Long-Haul Powertrain Warranty and it doesn't transfer to us, with our Soul we bought an additional 2 years Warranty.

Humm. Not a bad situation ta be in, really. Don't really have to do anything. But drive.

brian125

I remember back in the day how bad the early Kia Sportage was. The people I know that bought them had many problems. Sephia's were not as bad. Kia has come along way since those days.

brian125

I'll tell you one Suv that is excellent and a very good bang for your buck for under 30k

Kia Sorento you could order it with a 4cyl, 2.0 turbo, or V6 which I like a lot.

iluvmysephia1

I remember back in the day how bad the early Kia Sportage was. The people I know that bought them had many problems. Sephia's were not as bad. Kia has come along way since those days.

We actually traded our 1999 Kia Sephia in on a 2001 Kia Sportage 4X4. One problem with the fuel filler door getting stuck closed. I grabbed a flat-head screwdriver and pried it back open and went and bought some ghastly. Took it in and Kia service fixed it for no charge under the Warranty. Another problem was a mechanic saw that I needed a new radiator - the one in my Sportage 4X4 had a leak near the top. Fixed at no charge under Warranty. That was around the 15,000-mile mark.

Here's one thing that happened that was not covered by the Warranty. I was driving in mid-Missouri to one of our clinical training hospitals during college for my new Allied Healthcare career. It was early morning - suddenly the accelerator pedal pushed down too much, the radio went out and headlights grew dim. The SUV needed to be pulled over and shut down. Had it towed in - the alternator went out. They had to go looking for a new one and it got fixed the next day. Only time one of my 3 Kia's has stranded me. And the only time beside normal maintenance costs for any of the Kia's.

ab348

Looked at the Kia Canada website last night. No deals to be had on anything I'd be interested in driving, but this might be the cheapest new car offer I've seen here in years:

iluvmysephia1

Whoa, ab348, as a Kia lover the ad posted there immediately caught my eye. The Forte is the latest iteration of my beloved 1999 Kia Sephia from whence I draw my Edmunds nickname. But this is from Canada - I thought of this immediately as a U.S. offer. I don't totally love the Forte 4-door sedan body style but kind of like it. I favor the Soul to this car but that offer totally rocks!

brian125

The new Forte looks sharp. Its a nightmare for a big guy........... ingress / egress

Its ashame those rims don't come with base model......................... they are nice

iluvmysephia1

The new Forte looks sharp. Its a nightmare for a big guy........... ingress / egress

Its ashame those rims don't come with base model......................... they are nice

Yeah, ingress and egress on the 2010 and/on Kia Soul is amazing. A huge plus-point for the rig. And those rims are awesome on that 2016 Kia Forte - agreed, brian125!

brian125

iluvmysephia1

Next time you go by your local Kia dealer . Test drive a Sorento You will be surprised how good they drive and look inside.

Sandman6472

We have some Forte hatches at work and folks seem to like 'em, a lot. I drove a new Sorrento the other day and I'd buy one in a second if we needed such a large vehicle. For years now, I've been super impressed with Hyundai/Kia and their products, they are like Honda was back in the 80's and 90's. Each new vehicle is better than the one it's replacing and their great warranty is just adding value. Am amazed whenever I drive my kids '08 Accent and then get into a newer Hyundai/Kia product at work and see how much improvement there is.
Think if I had bought a Kia Soul back in late 2013 instead of the Hyundai Tucson, I'd still have it in our fleet right now. Unfortunately, it was just too big for my needs...I am the only passenger 95% of the time and I put on about 13K miles each year and wanted something more economical. Will definitely be looking at Hyundai/Kia products the next time I purchase a vehicle which should be around the end of 2019. Am very lucky that my job at Hertz gets me behind the wheel of so many newer vehicles, never know what I'm going to drive at any given time. My lead drivers know I like Korean and German vehicles and if there is one to drive, they usually throw me the keys and tell me to have fun as they know I really really enjoy my gig with Hertz HLE!

The Sandman

suydam

I'm sure you are right. I just can't see myself owning either a Hyundai or a Kia as long as Honda or Mazda makes something I like.

benjaminh

suydam said:

I'm sure you are right. I just can't see myself owning either a Hyundai or a Kia as long as Honda or Mazda makes something I like.

Are you still leaning toward the Mazda3?

suydam

Yes, but the Significant Other will have a say. Probably a couple of months away.

backy

iluvmysephia1 said:

backy -did you get the automatic transmission in your Kia Forte5 LX? Cool choice - congratulations. I drive a 2011 Kia Soul base clear white 5-speed stick. I love the car and feel it's solid. Kia is going great guns these days. They gave you a fantastic deal at your dealer, man!

The Forte5 LX comes standard with the 6AT. I would have preferred the 6-speed stick, especially if I could have gotten it for less than the AT, but the AT works well and I expect gives better FE than the stick.

One reason I went with the Forte5 vs. the Forte sedan is, for only about $400 more than the LX AT sedan, list price, there's a lot more standard equipment on the Forte5 including 16" wheels, cruise, fog lamps, and lots of interior convenience features. Plus I like the versatility of the hatchback so it was a no-brainer.

I've driven the Soul before and it's a great car, but for some reason the deals offered by my dealer on the Forte were a lot better than on the Soul. And I do like the swoopy styling and interior of the Forte5. Ingress/egress isn't an issue for me, yet. I got an SUV for my wife last year because she needs the higher seating position.

iluvmysephia1

Yikes, backy, it's literally been years since we've chatted. I like the Kia Forte5. A friend of ours took us for a ride in her late-model Forte5 in 2014 in Alamogordo, NM. I loved it! Quiet ride, man. Cool...this gives me more online perusing ta do regarding what might be our next rig..

backy, let me ask you a question. I drive a 2011 Kia Soul clear white base 5-speed. Wife loves it, I love it. She doesn't drive. We're always a one-car couple. How important is staying under Warranty to you? We bought two years of Powertrain Warranty on our Soul because we bought it used and we are the car's second owners. Anyhow, this extendo-Warranty ends on June 30, 2016.

I am thinking of doing 3 things. 1) Keeping our '11 Soul and going out of Warranty 2) Trading our Soul in on a new '16 Scion iA sedan in 6-speed MT form and Stealth color. Even though black isn't a color 3) Trading our Soul in on a new Kia Soul. What do you think of the new iA from Scion? Essentially a 2016 Mazda 2 sedan with Scion badges and a very strange gaping maw in the front that has grown on me. And I don't need surgery to remove it. Just joshin'.

Any opinion on this scenario? I don't have to do a thing - could just drive, maintain and enjoy our current Soul. Financially I can go either of the three routes and feel good about sleeping after possibly making a deal. The Mrs. would balk at trading but she always does. We wouldn't be mortgaging the Chow Chow's education ta try and make the payments in either of the two purchase scenarios. The current Soul has a comfortable note going on payments and a dealer would have to value our trade fairly for it to be agreeable to me or I'd walk out. 

Just interested mostly in what you think or know about the iA, soon to turn in to the 2017 Toyota Yaris iA? Some online personalities are saying buy the Scion, don't wait till it becomes a Toyota because Toyota will mark it up and break up its feature content by making separate models of iA - thereby maximizing their profits. I tend to agree. There's one in Denver selling for only $14,395. Discounted $2,100 by the dealer already. They have 12 iA's in stock and this is the only manual trannied one. That is really a good deal for the amount of car and features you get. Accident avoidance, pushbutton start, 7" entertainment screen, backup camera, Mazda driving fun with the 6-speed and so on. If they want to sell (they're shutting down Scion so their dealer's going bye-bye...so they want to sell) and have a good vibe and I love the car in a test drive, I would go for it. If they want more down than I want to put down and get all grabby I would shut it down and putter away in my '11. Thoughts?

stickguy

My. $.02. Would not bother me at all to go out of warranty on your current soul. Miles aren't that high, and it is a simple car. If you are worried enough to fork out for another warranty, better off putting that money toward a new car.

Of the other 2, the soul is much more car, and in my world, way better as an only car. Plus buying new, you get all 10 years of coverage.

If you are only looking at keeping the 2011 a few more years, and will be paying on it all that time, might as well trade now since you will never be out of payments anyway. Plus who knows how much longer the stick will even be available in a soul.

iluvmysephia1

Yep - we've paid 1 1/2 years of our Soul's payments and have 3 1/2 years still to pay. Trade-in value should be close but doubtful as much as amount owed on the car. Probably $1,500 or so under. Would catch up in another year and a half, estimated. The Mrs. would say nay, for sure. The Soul's ingress and egress/driving position is hard to beat and it is tightly put together. No rattles, fair acceleration and not a load of cabin noise. It is sound and fun to drive.

Lately I've read the iA's back seat is cramped - would want to sit back there on the test drive to verify. I don't like that and the Soul has room in the back for passengers. And Chow Chow's and Pomeranian's.

Michaell

iluvmysephia1 said:

Lately I've read the iA's back seat is cramped - would want to sit back there on the test drive to verify. I don't like that and the Soul has room in the back for passengers. And Chow Chow's and Pomeranian's.

I stopped in at a local Toyota / Scion dealer yesterday and looked over the iA. Full report over in CCBA.

But, I will confirm, the back seat is pretty tiny. I couldn't 'sit behind myself', as they say. But, given that it's only me in the car 98% of the time, it's not a big deal. We've got the Outback for family duty.

iluvmysephia1

But, I will confirm, the back seat is pretty tiny. I couldn't 'sit behind myself', as they say. But, given that it's only me in the car 98% of the time, it's not a big deal. We've got the Outback for family duty.

Yep - and with me, it's usually just myself or the Mrs. and myself. Possibly a couple of canines in the back or some groceries in the hatch and/or the back seat. So the iA isn't scratched because of tight quarters back there, it's just not stacking up to it's Soul competition. Hee-hee, pardon the pun!

backy

iluvmysephia1 said:

... How important is staying under Warranty to you? ...

I like having a warranty, and that's one reason I lease cars vs. buy used when I can get a great lease deal--as I've done in recent years on a Sentra, my Rio5 and Forte5, and my wife's 2013 Sonata. But I bought her 2012 CX-7 because it was a great price ($13.5k), great condition, low miles, and has a lifetime powertrain warranty. But my daughter's 2008 Mazda6 has no warranty, and it's held up well the 2 years I've owned it. Needed a new battery and some other maintenance an 8-year-old car with 120k miles needs, but I found a low-cost mechanic that keeps those costs down.

I've read some very positive reviews on the Scion iA. Looks like it would be a really fun car to drive, especially with the 6MT. The show-stopper for me would be that front end. Uggggg-ly! Otherwise I wouldn't mind driving it at all. But I do appreciate the additional room, smoothness, and power of my Forte5 compared to my Rio5, which is about the same size as the iA. I expect the iA is a more solid car than the Rio5 though.

akirby

Paying $4K to replace an engine in one year is still far cheaper than a $500/mo lease. And you're not going to pay that much every year. So don't fool yourself into thinking it's cheaper to lease or buy new. It almost never is. It can be a lot more fun and a lot more convenient though.

roadburner

akirby said:

Paying $4K to replace an engine in one year is still far cheaper than a $500/mo lease. And you're not going to pay that much every year. So don't fool yourself into thinking it's cheaper to lease or buy new. It almost never is. It can be a lot more fun and a lot more convenient though.

I agree 100%. People will have a couple of $500 repairs and use that as an excuse to buy a new car and take on a $6000/year(or more) financial obligation. If you like the new car smell and/or owning the latest and greatest just admit it. There's nothing wrong with that- you just cant make a financial case for doing it.