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Also will mention that due to GM's failing products you might be better served using another example to prove UAW is good for the industry. Hah! :mad:
The difference between your mentality and mine is that I am a patriotic person who doesn't go out of his way to feed the enemy. At some point we are going to fight China, in WW3 and free marketeer globalist like yourself will be to blame. If I was dictator none of our money would be going to China. it is better to keep a communist population with world conquer desires in grass huts and eating snakes!!!! You and others talk about my entitlement attitude but take a long hard look in the mirror!!!! You feel because company X can build a product using slave labor in China, cheaper than company Y that you are entitled to buy the X product. I don't think you are entitled to support a nation that wants to destroy us if given half a chance. I also would hope you would have a little more respect for mankind and wouldn't support slavery but apparently like any globalist it's all about you and screw your country men who have faught wars to keep you safe. If that isn't a entitlement attitude then I'm not sure what is???? Just remember when your Chinese masters beat you like a slave don't cry out to any of us evil, no-good, union people!!!!
-Rocky
Have the UAW workers refused to put any Chinese parts in the cars they build? If the Equinox is built here it had a Chinese engine. It is a REAL POC. I rented one for two weeks last year in Hawaii.
-Rocky
-Rocky
I believe 62 posted that it was Chinese and the new one is not.
-Rocky
-Rocky
-Rocky
-Rocky
From Wiki, but I've read several articles that at least some 3.4's were being built in China.
The Chevrolet Equinox is a mid-size crossover SUV from Chevrolet based on on GM's Theta unibody platform, manufactured at CAMI Automotive GM/Suzuki joint venture plant in Ingersoll, Ontario, Canada, and introduced in 2004 for the 2005 model year.
The Equinox's 3.4 L LNJ V6 engine is made in China (by Shanghai GM), while the Aisin AF33 transmission is manufactured in Japan. Starting with the 2008 model year, the Equinox Sport is fitted with a U.S. manufactured 3.6 L V6 engine.
-Rocky
-rockylee
Whoops! See http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/26/business/worldbusiness/26chevy.html?_r=1
G.M. does not break out internal costs, so it is not known how the Chinese engines compare in price with those from Tonawanda. Mr. Fedewa said an engine of this sort typically costs $800 to $900 to make.
I honestly don't remember seeing any Chinese engined Equinox....I looked at the domestic content stickers and the engine said U.S.A. in NY....Of course our dealership didn't sell many because they were plasticky pieces of crap!!! The new 2010 looks nice though.
Feb. 6 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp., trying to cut enough costs by a March 31 deadline to keep $13.4 billion in U.S. aid, is readying a plan to fire thousands of salaried employees, people familiar with the plans said.
The Detroit automaker will include the plans in a Feb. 17 progress report to the U.S. government, said the people, who asked not to be named because the plan isn’t public. The total may match the more than 5,000 salaried positions eliminated last year, the people said. GM started offering buyouts to 62,000 union workers this week and is in talks with the United Auto Workers about trimming benefits.
“They need to be very aggressive,” said Dennis Virag, president of the Automotive Consulting Group Inc. in Ann Arbor, Michigan. “They need to prove they can be viable. To do that, they need significant cutbacks of both salaried and union workers.”
GM is facing increased pressure to slash expenses after the Detroit automaker’s U.S. auto sales fell 49 percent in January. GM and Chrysler LLC have a Feb. 17 deadline for a progress report on their efforts to restructure their businesses, return to profit and repay $17.4 billion in U.S. loans by the end of 2011.
Survival Mode
Regards,
OW
Where ever the blasted thing was built, seems irrelevant. It was a piece of crap. Just like so much of the stuff being engineered in Detroit. The auto industry in Michigan is decaying. The Top management is poor, engineering is poor, and the guys assembling the vehicles are poor. See I did not blame it all on the UAW. GM deserves to DIE not have good money thrown after bad money.
He did not blame the Chinese for those shortcomings. “This engine’s blueprint did not originate in China,” Mr. Shenhar said. “The 3.4 liter, 185 horsepower has always been a lackluster engine.”
He called flaws in the design “a reflection of G.M.’s lack of attention to detail and half-hearted effort on this car.”
A lack of attention. Where have I seen that? Oh, I remember in my UAW assembled GMC hybrid PU truck. Lack of attention to putting the pieces together so the doors shut with a nice solid chunk sound. I wondered if vehicles were still built that way until I bought my Sequoia. Now the big coincidence is this. Both my sloppy built GMC PU truck and my Sequoia were both built in the same state of Indiana. Only difference is the name on the door and the UAW labor involved. So given a choice of who I would like to have assemble my next vehicle. I will opt for the NON-UAW workers. The ones that makes sure the doors go chunk and fit nicely before sending the vehicle to the dealership.
A lack of attention. Where have I seen that? Oh, I remember in my UAW assembled GMC hybrid PU truck.
It's 30+ years of cultural disease at GM, both the UAW and the management. Started with the Vega. Still exists with the Chinese engine and the interior of the previous Equiniox. The management doesn't demand attention to detail, the unions don't demand attention to detail. Meanwhile the competitors have been paying attention for 30 years and it has caught up. It's like the unions and management are co-dependent crack addicts who can hardly conceive of not having the habit. They are now trying valiantly to change but it is the blind leading the blind. They can hardly find their butts with their own hands.
Even if now GM is paying attention to details, there is a 5 year lag while all of the old iron is redesigned. At the moment there are at least 50% dogs in the lineup. The reputation takes even longer to recover than that. All together at least 10-15 years for recovery. The UAW has been a big part of that and most Americans are not sympathetic. Obama said the leaders of bailout companies can settle for $500K/year, max. That's a great idea. There should also be an expectation that workers produce quality for a good cost if the American people are bailing them out.
With the higher costs of the UAW you would think they would make an effort to demonstrate why their higher costs are worth it. "Yes we cost more, but look at how much more we are than the other guys". Instead they strike a bleeding company for better benefits. And even in their death throes as their population drops to 20% of original on the way to zero, they can't see it.
Absolutely true. However it is well documented that GM has cut corners on engineering as a result of the high cost of labor and legacy premiums. My point in all this is GM is a dying entity. It is corrupt and rotting in every aspect of the business. Whatever money we throw at it will be gone in a few months and they will be no better off. They are hoping to buy out the dead weight in the UAW with fat golden parachutes. They are laying off 1000s more white collar workers. What will that do to the design and engineering to keep up with the competition? They have not competed well for 30 or more years. They have gone on consumer loyalty, people like myself that bought 5 new trucks in 17 years. Until their product deteriorated to where the competition was just better. Do you think that so much of the domestic parts from companies like Delphi would have been outsourced to Mexico or China if they could have gotten decent labor for a decent wage in the USA? I'm not saying that the D3 management was not greedy. I am saying the whole auto industry based in Detroit is rotten to the core. That includes the UAW and its leadership.
The U.S. Treasury Department hired Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft LLP to evaluate several restructuring scenarios, including a government-funded bankruptcy
Cadwalader will advise the government on how automakers might be able to do some restructuring out of court, such as gaining concessions from unions and suppliers, the people said. That would make a court-supervised bankruptcy easier, they said
Will Gettlefinger cooperate or go down in a ball of fire?
LMAO. This is the reason I really enjoy your BS posts. You point your finger at the other guy calling him stealing, while you and your UAW buddies are doing the same just masking it with "wage increase".
The truth is demanding and get more than you actually earn is STEALING ALREADY. :P
BWAHAHAHAHA.... man your such a shallow one it makes me laugh to death. No, I'm not entitled to buy whatever's cheaper, I AM ENTITLED TO BUY WHATEVER I WANT AS LONG AS IT'S NOT AGAINST THE LAW.
1) Speaking of entitlement, then I believe, as I have told 62vettee before, that all bailout receivers are mandated to release information to the public on how the bailout money is spent. No, not just to our governors or senators, I mean to the whole US taxpayers. Yes this includes the media. Why? Because we bailed them out, we're entitled to demand so. No excuses.
2) I'm also entitled to refuse to purchase any goods made by bailout takers because I didn't support bailout, thus it was involuntarily and it can be considered stealing. And that includes not purchasing GM products and moving all my money out of Bank of America. That includes not supporting UAW because UAW also take their wages from the bailout.
3) I'm entitled, not as an American, but as a human being, to choose what to buy with my hard earned money regardless of where it's produced, under God's given rights. I have God protected rights to choose Samsung over RCA, BMW over Cadillac, even Toblerone over Hershey's, etc...
4) I'm entitled to acknowledge China as the most powerful country in the world right now with the most cash reserves while acknowledging USA as the country with the highest debt in the world. I'm also entitled to admit that China is holding us hostage because we owe them freakin $700 billion, OVERDUE already. All without having to be a China worshipper.
5) I'm entitled to vote of what do to about the imports, whether we will add tariffs on them or not, because the impact will hit the whole American public, including me.
6) I'm entitled, along with everybody else, to also decide UAW's future because our tax money is what's paying them.
How's that for your entitlement crap, Rock? Your sad excuses will only sink you lower in the society, unless you can change your mindset you'll always look up to us while some of us up there will always look down on you.
"The difference between your mentality and mine is that I am a patriotic person who doesn't go out of his way to feed the enemy...
If I was dictator none of our money would be going to China. it is better to keep a communist population with world conquer desires in grass huts and eating snakes"
Oh, REALLY????? I pity you, Rocky, you're such a hypocrite and you don;t even notice. You keep saying "We need to protect our country from the foreign invasion". Well, not exactly like that but that's what you mean right?
In that case let me ask you this one question:
IS EVERYTHING YOU OWN MADE IN USA? HOW MANY OF YOUR BELONGINGS ARE PRODUCED IN USA?
Is your TV made in USA? How about your desk? Look at the screen you're reading this post with, tell me, is it made in USA? Look at the keyboard you're typing all your nonsense with, is it made in USA? Is every part of your electronics made in USA? Look at the very shoes and shirt you're wearing and tell me it's darn made in USA. Do you object from using imported parts for the cars you built AND drive? Do you still drive it anyway?
On the second thought, perhaps there's no need to tell me because you'll never admit it anyway.
You keep whining and wailing about patriotism and "Buy American", why not start with yourself? You're twisting your own words too much, expecting us to make sacrifices while you yourself don't have to do jack. If you want to persuade us to do or agree with something, set the example yourself and be the rolemodel. If you can't do that simple thing, then forget trying to convince anyone else. I can see your true nature, I'm not blind, neither are so many people here and out there.
You scream against communism, well guess what, unions ARE communist and socialist by nature. And you fail to see the truth in front of your own eyes. Your hypocrisy is making me sad...
Unless you can prove us that you're so PATRIOTIC then don;t even think you deserve to point your finger on me. That is, if you still have any consience and shame at all.
PS: Btw, everyone, let me know if I'm being too harsh on poor Rocky, I'll try to hold back and post "easier to counter" comments. :P :P :P
To be fair:
One plant employes people that understand their job could/would go away if they don't do it well. They also understand there just might be a bonus at years end, for that year, if their efforts result in a good year for the company.
The other plant employees people that understand (past tense), their job is
secureprotected , whether the company shows a profit or not. Some one else will fight their fights, keep them employed, and negotiate their bonus in the form of an "everlasting" increase in wage. So why should they bust their butts to do a good job, when a mediocre one will suffice?Well....! Other than keeping the Goose healthy.
Kip
Well said!
Actually our TVs could have been made by companies in the US if the government had reacted correctly to the unfair pricing by the foreign competition and the dumping that occurred. But the people knew what they wanted: no manufacturing here and cheaper prices.
On the UAW...
if anyone wonders why workers need unions, look at what happens to those who didn't have a union because "they were professionals"
Salaried Delphi retirees are contemplating their next move now that Delphi Corp. has asked a U.S. Bankruptcy Court judge to let the company cancel health care and life insurance benefits for current and future retirees after March 31, 2009.
I suggest reading the vitriol in the comments beneath the article. The government has people fighting each other instead of watching what the government does--perfect opportunity for government to expand itself a la housing and Dodd and Frank and Fannie and Freddy, which of course didn't work right.
We'll be covering healthcare for all these salaried retirees who have none after Delphi completes this termination.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That is exactly correct. Step out of line in a UAW shop with respect to the Union leaders and you are in deep trouble. What Rocky seems to be asking for with total government control of our workplace, health care, education etc is what is practiced in Communist China. You become a slave to the whims of the dictators in the communist government. At least now with our Union system there is a chance of voting against the goons running the UAW by secret ballot. What is it that appeals to a person wanting an open ballot when voting to go Union or not. The EFCA legislation that the Socialist in our government have tossed around is so ANTI Democracy.
In a UAW that is decided on by totally open election, who will control the leaders that become dictators?? What do you do if the UAW leader decides hey you Rocky, I got a job in China for you. Rocky says I don't want to go to China. Too bad PUNK, that is where you are going or maybe you like concrete shoes to wear when you go swimming. If you think that Unions in the past did not use some rough tactics on workers to keep them in line. You are totally naive. The EFCA will be giving the Unions way too much power over the individuals rights. Except in the RTW states. Which is where all the manufacturing will move.
Actually I bought a Zenith in about 1983 that was still made here. It started acting up after 3 years and I left it in the house in Havasu when I sold it. I bought a Panasonic and took it to Prudhoe Bay with me. It was still working fine when I retired and left it there in 2006. I went through several remote control units over the 20 years. I am not sure if Zenith was Union made or not. They were the last holdout being built here.
I think you and I are on the same page with this balancing act. We don't want to lose industry in the US. We realize the UAW and other Unions have had a role in the demise. And we fear Big Government that screws up everything it gets involved in.
My niece and Nephew live around Columbus. He is on his 3rd job in two years as an aircraft mechanic. First one was some small airline that went bankrupt last year. Then another local outfit cut way back. He seems to be doing ok now. Who knows for how long. Unions are not the answer to keeping jobs in the USA. A healthy business climate is the answer. If a business person cannot see a profit in opening up shop, why would he do it?
PS
My nephew had a great civil service job here in San Diego at the Naval Air Station when he got out of the Marines. He missed his Buckeyes and family. So he is battling the odds to stay in Ohio. It is going to get worse before it gets better.
Not 'against the law' has nothing to do with ethics or morals, both of which are sorely lacking when one examines the brutal irresponsible glorified slave labor state known as China, an irresponsible and murderous system the yellow globalists here think the US should emulate. In this race to the bottom, China is the ideal - lowest cost, no matter the price. It has given very little to the world over the past 50 years aside from cheap goods - you get what you pay for.
You're entitled to buy and say what you want...and be judged for it.
Claim not to be a China worshipper, but IIRC you hinted that you'd bail from the US if things declined too much (along with some mocking mention of Chinese cultural superiority). Just where do you think you're going to go with that dark blue passport?
Yes - same to UAW militants, who are entitled to lobby for their superwages and than be judged as bunch of spoiled and lazy brats. You are talking about immorality of buying "slave labor" made goods.
Where is morality of DEMANDING money from taxpayers all over this country so you can change nothing in their ways? Basically demanding soccer moms, single mother, orphans and others to pay so they can maintain "god-given" lifystele. Or DEMANDING protectionist policies, which EVERYBODY knows (at least those with basic economics) resulting in higher cost to average consumer to the point of depravation of something else - i.e. same single mothers, soccer moms etc. paying up, so some bumper bolting dude can have life he deems he is entitled to.
Where is morality in well-know and documented (not to mention - they are proud of it) of vandalism against lawfully parked property on UAW-"controlled" premises?
Before you wave that morality banner, better check your own ranks first.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Japan and Europe come in mind, as their economies are most comparable - most of their "protected" industries end needing more and more protection and end up dragging down whatever is left of the prospering part of the economies. On the other side of the spectrum, the poorest and the most desperate countries also happen to be also ones with highest "protection" barriers. Do you think that's a coincidence?
Protection barriers end up protecting nothing and destroying everything. Doesn't mean that without protections life is great and all milk and honey. Life is tough - you live under constrant pressure from those who can make it better, faster, cheaper. It can kill you, no doubt. If it doesn't, it will make you stroner. Companies and people living in protection barriers are best compared to zoo animals. Yeah, their meal is covered and they'll likely live long. But one power outage and they all die. Companies in free market are like animals living in freedom. They are under constant threat from predators, floods, fire, and what not. Yet those who survive, contribute to their species pool as healthier and fitter. Other than cosmic one, not a single disaster can actually wipe them all out. Cruel? Yes, but necessary.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
My "ranks" aren't UAW members, sorry. I have no attachment nor personal bonds to the UAW. I live far from any auto factory and have never personally known anyone who works for that union. I make no defense of the UAW...the big picture in all of this is far greater than some overpaid autoworkers.
Before you spout nonsense, it would behoove you to check your own facts first.
Good quarter of the world lives in much worse misery than a Chinese peasant who came to a factory and is actually able to send some money back to their family. No, my friend - you check your facts.
BTW - I AM NOT saying China is great. I'm just saying there is plenty worse.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Somebody made assertions that buying Chinese-made goods is like killing babies in their sleep. Practically worst of the worst. So I just said there was plenty worse - with examples.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Personally I'm against UAW because of the bailout (meaning: I'm involuntarily feeding them). I don't care if they exist or extinct as long as they leave me alone and do me no harm in any way possible, but they've crossed the line when they ask for government bailout for their "blood supplier" D3.
I feel bad for the honest hard workers who join the UAW, however they should've been ready for this kind of generalization the moment they decide to join a union with such terrible reputation.
To be fair I know nothing about Teamster and thus I have no comment about it. I don't think all unions are rotten, but UAW is definitely one of them.
Like our dear Rocky, as the survival of UAW benefits him then it's HIS responsibility to make sacrifices for the sake of the UAW, not mine. Only those who's lives are tied with UAW need to make sacrifices, the rest of us can just sit and watch for all I care.
I believe you can see the difference.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
http://web17.streamhoster.com/ddc/GM/eNews/200902/Toyota.pdf
Toyota shuts down all but one assembly line
On what was to be a historic day halting all of Toyota's Japanese assembly lines, the automaker announced late Thursday that it kept one line running.
The day was particularly ominous for assembly line worker Takayuki Yoshikawa, who has already been told he's out of a job and back home in May. Yoshikawa lives in a Toyota-owned dormitory.
"I don't know what to do," said Yoshikawa. "I could go back to my hometown, but there are no jobs there, either."
Alberto Dilone, already fired from a Toyota parts subsidiary, showed up at the Toyota City job center to search for a new job Thursday.
"Kubi," Dilone said, slicing a finger across his throat. The Japanese expression means cut or fired.
Dilone said half the people in his plant have been fired and jobs in Toyota City are scarce. Like the hundreds of unemployed filtering through the employment center everyday, he left with no leads.
Of course, I can go on with the politics and crush these guys as it's one of my specialties, but that means straying too far off topic, so I'm holding it back. :shades: