Subaru Crew - General Maintenance & Repair

francophile

Juice, blipping the throttle while your foot is on the clutch doesn't do anything significant in terms of matching speeds. But you're close to a double-clutch, the purpose of which is to match gear speeds. Next offramp, try this:
- From, say, 4th gear, depress clutch and move the shifter to neutral
- Release clutch
- Blip the throttle
- Depress the clutch and shift into 3rd

Do it with your toe on the brake and your heel on the throttle, and you'll be heel-and-toeing, which is a hoary and venerable skill, a necessary talent amongst those of us who used to drive British sports cars . To be honest, I put my big toe on the brake and my pinkie toe on the throttle, rather than heel-toe.

Cheers,
WDB

ateixeira

I guess the Brits have to keep their momentum with, oh, about 60 horsepower, right?

-juice

srgk

Re posting 865:
I have the same clunking/rattling front end noise in '00 OB. My dealer service department keeps saying "it's normal for Subaru". I believe it's not normal and should be fixed.

Patti, could you check if SOA has any information regarding this problem ?

- Sergey

locke2c

blipping the throttle while your foot is on the clutch doesn't do anything significant in terms of matching speeds.

I disagree. It does do something significant, and it works. The clutch-- and thus the layshaft-- are always contact with the flywheel and are always spinning while the engine is running. They just don't get much torque when the clutch is disengaged. It's enough torque the spin the layshaft up to the proper speed for downshifts though, but it does take a bit longer of a throttle blip than if you're in neutral with the clutch out.

To me blipping with the clutch in is still faster and easier than double-clutching. If someone is good at double-clutching though and they prefer it, good for them.

-Colin

kens

Ditto to Colin's comment. I usually blip the throttle with the clutch in when downshifting and it significantly reduces drivetrain shock.

Ken

subaru_team

Good afternoon! I really hate to comment on noises. It is tough to say whether it is a "normal characteristic" (like the power steering knock over an uneven surface) or something else. If it is the power steering characteristic, I'll try to find the information I posted before to refer you to the explanation.

If you are not comfortable with what the dealer is telling you, why don't you give us a call at 1-800-SUBARU3 and speak to a Representative? They can contact your dealer to see exactly what their findings are and look into getting you a more detailed explanation other than "they all do that".

I'll see if I can find the power steering information at some point soon (I've got limited time today). Also, I know folks are wondering about modified parts to change this characteristic. I have checked with our technical group and, so far, nothing new to report.

Thanks!

amishra

Is also a technique used by alot of rally-drivers. (Unfortunately, I'm too chicken to take my car out on a rally)

But I do it daily on my MX-6, since it allows me to put the car at higher rpms much quicker than the syncs would. Makes for some astonishing looks on faces of passengers.

-- ash

ateixeira

Thanks for explaining that, Colin. I didn't know how it works, but it does! For relaxed everyday driving, it's easy and even fun.

-juice

mikef11

Yes, the noise appears whether the ac is on or off. The only common items I have been able to notice so far is that the noise doesn't appear when the car is cold. After driving for a while, it reappears. The second is that it 'may' be linked to the engine speed. I shall have to check a bit more when I next drive the car this weekend (my wife normally drives it).

MikeF

bluesubie

I recently developed a wheel squeal on my 97 OBS with 42k miles (5-speed). Just to make sure it wasn't a rock stuck somewhere, I removed the front wheels to take a look. Turns out it was the brake pad indicators making the noise. I didn't think so at first because it was constant instead of only when I pressed the brakes. The right front pad is almost completely gone! The left front appears to have at least 50% or so remaining. Is it normal for the pads to wear down so differently? Could something be out of adjustment?

TIA,
Dennis

frankatedmunds

My 1998 Legacy with 35,000 miles had a pronounced engine hesitation consistently for one week following an oil change. I brought it to the dealer and they reported that there was no hesitation. Indeed, when I picked up the car that
afternoon and took the service rep for a test drive the hesitation was gone.
I'm about to go off of warranty and would like your opinions on what to do.

There is a known hesitation problem described at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~hobiegary/tsb.htm

Thanks

Frank, Ottawa

miksmi

Frank, I don't know of a solution but it is curious that this first appeared after the oil change. I'm not suggesting the oil change caused the problem, and I don't know what a mechanic could have adjusted to cause hesitation. To diagnose software problems that seem to magically appear in a production environment, I always ask, "What changed?" Nine out of ten times someone (like me) changed something, thinking it was innocuous. Did they do any other routine inspection or maintenance at the oil change? Did the dealer perform the oil change?

..Mike

bluesubie

If you have the hesitation as described in the TSB, chances are it will be back. Did you show the service advisor the TSB? I've had the hesitation since my first oil change in the fall of '97. It doesn't matter where the oil change is done, I still get the hesitation. I'm not a techie, but it's something to do with an oversensitive knock sensor. When the oil is changed, the engine has a knock for a moment until the oil circulates and retards the timing. I've mentioned it to the dealer once but supposedly all they found was a loose vacuum hose. Of course, the car is still hesitating and my warranty has expired. I use 93 octane and that seems to help. I also disconnect the battery to reset the ECM when it gets bad. What octane are you running? If I use 87 or 89, I'm guaranteed to have "H".
Have you had the car since it was new? If you have, the hesitation I mentioned it would've most likely shown up a while ago. I'm leasing so I'm just living with it.
Dennis

frankatedmunds

Thanks for your comments. To answer some of your questions:
I did the last oil change myself.
No other work was done at the time the hesitation started.
The car never hesitated before this time.
I've owned the car since it was new.
I use "regular" gas from a variety of gas stations.
Dennis, how long does it take to return after you reset the ECM?

Frank

blackr

Hi,
I have a '93 Subaru Legacy Sedan. The passenger door handle on the exterior is loose, but still functions fine. The problem is at the interface between the door sheet metal and door handle / rubber gasket.

Will taking off the interior door panel give me access to tighten the bolts or whatever should be holding the handle to the door?
Thanks,
Rob

bluesubie

Frank - It's usually fine until the next oil change. I recently started doing my own oil changes, but it's happens regardless of who changes it. Do you have a 5-speed? I believe only the 5-speeds affected by the TSB.
Dennis

ateixeira

Rob - sorry, I've never had to open the door panel. Any audiophiles get a look in there?

Dennis: probably a warped right front rotor, from excessive heat. Too many hills?

If it were on a rear brake it might be the hand brake sticking or left on, but not in front.

Get new pads on both sides (!), and have the rotors turned. If you do this yourself, some Trak Autos will turn the discs for free if you buy pads there. Otherwise, any shop can do it.

-juice

bluesubie

Thanks, juice. Great OBX pix btw.
Not many hills here in central NJ (and no auto-x'ing or racing). I wanted to take it to a dealer but they can't squeeze me in for a while (I need saturdays), so I'll probably take it to a shop.
Dennis

paisan

NJ Turnpike, Rte 80, Rte 78, Garden State Parkway...


Seriously, they run em @ Englishtown and Camden.

-mike

bluesubie

Thanks, mike. I meant *I* haven't auto-x'ed (except of course the GSP, NJT and 287).
Dennis

locke2c

Dennis, the calipers need to be serviced (cleaned and lubed) periodically or they could stick or apply uneven pressure. This could be what happened to yours.

-Colin

ateixeira

Colin: can you elaborate a bit on the tip?

This would be a good thing to do at each tire rotation, since it's accessible. What procedure would you use for this service? Pressurized water? Brakleen or a similar cleaner?

-juice

francophile

Colin, yep, the input shaft still spins, and that gets the lay gears to spin too. My bad. Forgive me, please. I learned to double clutch so long ago that I don't even think about it anymore; therefore I can blame it on brain fade ;-)

Cheers,
WDB

locke2c

Juice,

Don't follow my lead... I use WD40 or whatever the heck I grab ahold of. Remove the brake pads and manually compress the pistons, and squirt them with your chosen cleaning agent.

Reassemble and you're good to go. If the pad is wearing funny, get a filter mask (paper is marginal-- I recommend class2) and grind it flat. If this sounds like too much, if you see a pad wearing funny (look through the holes in the top of the caliper, that's what they are for) then go immediately to a brake shop.

Wait, just thought of a great shortcut. Go to midas for the free brake inspection. If they find anything wrong decide if you want to do it (walk away free!) or let them.

______

WDB, if you're good at double-clutching don't stop now! I just wanted to point out to anyone who isn't rev-matching their downshifts (or upshifts in a non-synchro transmission) that blipping with the clutch in does work.

-Colin

thecat

For some time I have been hearing a noise (I’m really sensitive to sound) albeit minor, coming from the fan. Sort of reminds me of when I was a kid and put playing cards in the spokes of my bicycle. The dealer couldn’t hear it .. so couldn’t fix it. It’s beginning to drive me nuts. (quite a short trip)

I’m inclined to give a shot at fixing it myself. Does anyone know how accessible the fan is?
-hutch

c_hunter

Are you talking about the ventilation system fan?? I had a similar noise coming from the ventilation fan on an older car once, and it turned out to be pine needles that had comehow made their way into the blower system. On that particular car, it was pretty easy to get to the fan and clean it out. Not sure how the Soob is setup, but if you can get to the fan, it's probably a simple job from there.

Craig

frankatedmunds

Yes, it's a five-speed...Frank

thecat

Craig,
I guess at the time of writing, it hadn't occurred to me the number of ways "fan" could be interpreted. Don't read what I'm writing .. read what I'm thinking !

But, yes it's the vent fan. I have experienced the leaf in the vent in other vehicles. I don't think that is what is going on here. The sound seems to be coming from the fan itself not the vent system. I'm thinking either it's a bad motor or something is coming in contact with the fan blade.

- hutch

amishra

Sorry about jumping into the middle of this ... is this hesitation only at specific rpm speeds on your 5 speed OB? what year is your OB?

-- ash

subaru_team

It's always better (according to my techie training friends) to use an on the car lathe. The reasoning given to me is the even cut you get vs. removing the rotor.

Just thought I'd share!

subaru_team

You might want to ask the dealer to hook up the ECU to a select monitor prior to clearing any codes. Clearing codes can possibly take care of the issue (sometimes for good) but if the concern that is causing the hesitation is still there, it won't help it. The codes might indicate something really small (a bad batch of fuel) that you can rectify after a few tank fulls.

Again, I'm not technical, but I listen well.

c_hunter

The on-car lathes are really cool -- they can resurface rotors right on the car, which also allows them to correct the rotor thickness for things like bearing runout. Plus, think of all the time it saves!

Craig

frankatedmunds

Yes, it was based on RPM, ie. it hesitated at the low end of each shift up to the next gear.

If the hesitation returns, I'm going to stay with the car while the mechanic does his work. I wouldn't want him to reset the ECU without investigating the cause.

Frank

ateixeira

Hmm, out of curiosity, anyone seen good instructions with photos of how to change the brake pads? Mine have plenty of time left, but I am curious, and it could help if you wanted to clean them.

hutch: when I installed the dual cup holder, I got the vent covers off pretty easily, but you still can't see the fan. You may want to try this anyway, then turn the fan on high and stick in a vacuum to see if that combo can suck any debris out. I'd clean the outside (at the base of the windshield) first, though.

Hey - you're supposed to have debris problems AFTER we go off road, not before!

Only backfire I've seen is with an aftermarket exhaust, so that's where I'd be checking. A stromung on an RS burbles nicely and backfires occasionally.

-juice

bluesubie

Juice - No photos, but found some tips on pad changes on the "i-club".
http://www.impreza-rs.com/NonCGI/Forum15/HTML/000555.html
Dennis

amishra

That sounds alot like the symptoms I was having with the fuel injectors on my 2000 OB. At low RPMs they were sticking, so fuel was burning rich, and the exhaust was pulsing. The car shook and felt like it might stall any second.

Possibly could be your fuel injectors. I wouldn't be surprised. (I've had 2 fail so far on my NEW 2000 Outback).

-- ash

ateixeira

Now that I think about it, that reminds me of the symptoms my wife's car had. It hesitated at low rpms, like it was choking, and seemed to lose lots of power overall.

We took it to the dealer for new plugs, plug wires, fuel filter, and fuel system cleaning, and it runs better than ever now. I bet in our case it was just clogged fuel injectors.

-juice

PS She used 93 octane premium fuel exclusively, but still had a problem at about 56k miles

epmoren

I have a '95 Subaru Legacy L wagon, AWD with about 56 k miles. Over the past year the car has developed a vibration problem during low speed turns. The car has an automatic transmission and the vibration occurs in both 1st and reverse (not in neutral). A reliable mechanic believes that the transmission is slipping, but I'm surprised that this has occurred with only 56k miles on the vehicle. I also own a '94 Subaru Impreza with 92k miles which does not have this problem.

I have changed the oil in both differentials and the oil was clean with little to no wear particles. Visual inspection of the gears looked good. Transmission fluid level is good and transmission fluid appears very clean.

I have read several anecdotes about Subarus with "racket pinion steering" and I'm wondering if the transmission is the culprit. Has anyone else experienced this problem with their Subaru?

ateixeira

I was thinking CV joints, but not if it doesn't happen in neutral.

-juice

subaru_team

Can you tell us a bit about your tires? When were they last replaced, what where they replaced with and where all four replaced? Sometimes, if your tires have a different rolling circumference (check it with a string) you can experience a "binding" concern that sounds like you might have. Also, has a dealer looked at it? With 56K (depending on your purchase date) it may be something covered under your powertrain warranty (5/60). It does not sound like the power steering rack characteristic.

If you need more help, please call us at 1-800-SUBARU3 and we can see what we can do.

Thanks!

Patti

subaru_team

for a bit. Can you please call us at 1-800-SUBARU3? Ask the Rep. that you speak to to notify me about your case so I can look into it further for you.

I'm not familiar with this type of concern and I'd like to check it further.

Thanks,

Patti

ozparis

Thanks for the very informative site. I've had my 2001 Forester L (5-speed) for about two weeks now, and almost love it. However, I sometimes have trouble getting the shift knob (and therefore the rest of the car) into reverse. About half the time there's no problem; the rest of the time, the knob will only go back about halfway. Stepping off and back onto the brake pedal or shifting into first and driving forward a couple of inches solves the problem, but it seems like I should be able to get the car into reverse on the first try at least most of the time. This happens on level surfaces, including my garage. I've owned a 5-speed before and never had this problem, so I don't think it's just me . . . I'd like to hear what you guys have to say before I talk to the dealer.

Also, there was a message much earlier (back in the 400s, I think) about a nasty smell coming from the exhaust area of a new Subaru. My dealer told me that Subaru sprays some sort of undercoating on new cars for transport, and that the smell would go away after 150 miles or so--and it did. (Sorry if someone already commented on this--I read the 900+ postings in two sittings, so I could have missed it. )

wjpress

Hello all.
I drive a 93 Legacy L wagon, FWD, 5 spd. with hill holder clutch. When I drive in normal wet conditions (your average Maryland rain storm), the tires frequently spin when starting out from a stop. My tires are Goodyear Regattas and they still have good tread remaining. Except for when the tires were brand new, I have had this problem.

I previously drove an 86 VW Golf for 11 years. Heavy clutch, never a skip in any weather conditions (great snow car). My Legacy clutch has a hard to find release point. It's easy to stall or spin if you don't get it right.

Having driven manual transmission cars for 21 years, I figure the problem isn't me. Anyone else had a similar experience with FWD 5 speeds? I realize that all Subes are AWD now, but I have another winter remaining before I buy that new Outback.

Thanks.

miksmi

Hi Bill, I had a 91 Legacy L wagon, FWD, 5 speed, HH clutch, and I also live in MD (close enough match?). I never had the tires spin when starting out from a stop in wet conditions, though I don't recall what tires were on it. Mine had 61,000 miles on the original clutch.

BTW If you'll be considering an Outback, as I was, you owe it to yourself to drive a GT. The suspension is stiffer and a lot of fun to drive. This comment comes from someone who had to be dragged, kicking and screaming, to buy a GT over an L (by his wife, owner of said GT).

I'd go with the Outback if you plan on light off-roading or regularly drive on unimproved (dirt or gravel) roads. If you mostly drive on tarmac, give the GT a test drive -- you'll like it.

Sorry I couldn't help answer your question.

..Mike

wjpress

Mike-

Thanks for the info on your '91 Legacy. Maybe it's just operator error, or it's a sign to buy a new AWD car.

Interesting point about the GT vs. the Outback. I plan to do no off-roading. We are car campers and so encounter the occasional washboard road on the way to a campground or hike. How does the GT do in urban settings on rough pavement? The MSRP on the Outback is less, though I've heard others say that deals can be had on the GT.

Much to consider over the next few months.

Bill

wjpress

Mike-

Thanks for the info on your '91 Legacy. Maybe it's just operator error, or it's a sign to buy a new AWD car.

Interesting point about the GT vs. the Outback. I plan to do no off-roading. We are car campers and so encounter the occasional washboard road on the way to a campground or hike. How does the GT do in urban settings on rough pavement? The MSRP on the Outback is less, though I've heard others say that deals can be had on the GT.

Much to consider over the next few months.

Bill

miksmi

Bill,

It does well on the so-called streets in the DC suburbs. My wife drives it from Silver Spring to Bethesda on 410, a well-maintained road, but downtown Bethesda has construction and its share of rough pavement. Downtown Silver Spring has even more construction projects underway, and also rough pavement (though not as bad as some I've driven in DC and Baltimore). The suspension isn't too stiff, though it's stiffer than the Outback. Though the GT is 1" lower than the Outback, the 00 GT with 16" alloys is a LOT taller than the 91 L with 14" steel wheels; my wife and I like that. You'll love the 3rd generation Legacy/Outback design; the car is much more solid than the 1st generation design.

We compared the Outback, GT, Saab 9-5, Volvo V70, and VW Passat. My wife thought the Volvo V70 was too stiff. The GT doesn't have the best suspension of the lot; it has the best value of the lot (AWD, alloy wheels, dual moonroofs, reliability, etc.). Though a minor point to me, my wife didn't like the feel of the cloth fabric of the Legacy L, and didn't like the pattern of the L and Outback. Hey, it's her car. Click on my profile to read about my buying experience. If you can make it to the Fall Foliage Tour in Charlottesville, VA, on 22 October, I'll let you take it out for a spin. Check the Events topic for details.

..Mike

miksmi

One more thing, Bill. I spin the wheels on my 93 Civic LX sedan, but only on the white lane stripes at intersections in the rain. Maybe it's an issue on all MY93 FWD cars Seriously, I know what you mean, it is annoying. I've yet to slip the wheels in the GT. I'm not a boy racer, but an AWD launch from a stop is quite an experience. I was an AWD Luddite (it doesn't snow enough here, FWD does fine in DC snow, I've never gotten stuck, etc.) before the GT. Even on dry pavement, you can feel the difference between AWD and FWD under acceleration. It really took me by surprise. And after that snow in January, oh I was in heaven. AWD won't make you a better driver or overcome the laws of physics (especially when stopping), but IMO it does offer many advantages over FWD.

I guess you might be posting this because of the steady rain we've had for the last few days. Stephen Barressa lives in Seattle, WA. I'm sure he'll vouch for AWD in the rain. Right, Stephen?

..Mike

c_hunter

ozparis: you probably don't need to drive forward to get into reverse -- when it's stubborn going into reverse, just put the shifter in neutral, and let out the clutch for a second. Put the clutch back in, and you should be able to slide into reverse no problem.

Craig

kens

My 98 Forester does that too. I find that sometimes shifting into another gear before going to reverse helps. If that's sticky, then do what Craig wrote. Just make sure you give it a second before you go into reverse, otherwise you'll get a little grinding.

Ken