Subaru Crew - General Maintenance & Repair

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think 85 lbs is a bit high but within tolerances.

    Someone mentioned his were torqued to 120 lb-ft! Now THAT is a problem!

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Makes sense. I'll still call the guy anyway.
  • vincer2vincer2 Member Posts: 97
    Ken,
    In response to your question about over tightening of lug nuts. I'll defer to Juice and Colin and the others who are more knowledgeable than me but over and unevenly tightening them can warp the rotors rather quickly. Also, I don't know how tight is too tight. Juice's observation that overly tight lug nuts can also damage (bend) the wheels is another big concern.

    When I got in the car after the 7500 mile servicing my attention was immediately focused on the two greasy heel marks left on the driver's side floor mat by the "mechanic". I suspected that he or she was not overly concerned about the quality of their work or about treating a customer's vehicle as if it was his own. A few weeks later my assumption was validated.
    Vince
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    You can warp the rotors by overtorqueing lugnuts yes. Generally any warping goes away if you feel the imbalance and get the torque right soon after it's done.

    85lb-ft isn't impossible to remove at all, especially with air tools. The reason air tools are better is because the force they deliver is in small, repetitive blows that are more effective and less stressful on the threads than linear torque.

    -Colin
  • blaneblane Member Posts: 2,017
    In my dealings with COSTCO Wholesale, their tire shop order-writer always looks up the torque specifications for whichever vehicle I've brought in. He writes the number on the work order and I have to believe that the mechanic reads it and torques the lugnuts accordingly. Seems like a fine procedure to me.

    Their tire prices are VERY good and they provide FREE lifetime (life of the tire) rotations and tire repairs.
  • originalbitmanoriginalbitman Member Posts: 920
    On my recent road trip I had my 3k oil change done at the Soob dealer in Appleton Wis. The mechanic way overfilled the crankcase and never bothered installing a washer. On top of that he denied that it was overfilled and then insisted it didn't matter anyway. Service manager had him drain the oil to spec and in the process actually drained too much. If you live in the Appleton area and can't guess the dealer's name email me for the info.

    Bit

    Mike@bitman.com
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Blane: I hear you about Costco, and also had good service from them.

    The catch is they only offer their warranty and free rotation for life if you buy the tires there, and their selection is very limited (maybe 2 tires of your size).

    Discount Tire Direct and Tire Rack have dozens of options, and prices are lower. Though Costco does beat the other retailers.

    -juice
  • snopeoplsnopeopl Member Posts: 9
    Kate: What independent mechanic did you take your Subaru to?
    Thanks.
  • subaricsubaric Member Posts: 3
    Last Thursday (about 4 days ago) I had my oil and filter changed in my '01 OB LTD at the dealer (Fitzgerald's in Rockville, MD). I drove my car around for the next few days. On Sunday morning, when filling up for gas (about a 5 minute drive from my house), I decided to just look at the dipstick. Much to my concern, the oil level was not only past the Full mark, it was past the top notch as well!!!! I read the manual and it indicated that the oil level will rise after the car has been running for a while, but that seems like it is too much. I looked at it after driving to work (4 miles) and it was even higher! Will I get any permanent damage? Has anyone else had the same experience or know of anyone else who did? What happened? I am worried now.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    subaric: I'd change the oil myself, if you think you can figure it out (it's not hard at all). I use about 4.5 quarts or so each time, and never burn oil in between changes.

    Some shops over-tighten the drain plugs, forget the drain plug gasket, or overfill. Fitzgerald is usually pretty good, so I'm surprised. My cousin always goes there.

    If it's just barely above the line, you'll probably be fine. If it's half inch above the line, take it back and ask them to do it right. Also ask to make sure the drain plug is properly (not over-) tightened.

    -juice
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    If it makes you feel any better, the dipstick on my 2000 OB showed "past full" when it was new, and also after I recently changed the oil myself. I added exactly 4 qts (manual calls for 4.2), and double-checked the dipstick on level ground a few days later (with a cold engine). The level matches up to the small notch on the side of the dipstick, if that has any meaning, but is definitely past the F mark. It would not surprise me if the dipstick were incorrectly marked, or the recommended 4.2 qts is wrong.

    I'd be curious to hear other's experience.

    By the way, no biggie if it's only overfilled a little, but it can cause leaks and seal damage if it's overfilled a lot (like twice as much as recommended). I don't think you need to worry about it though.

    Craig
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I put in about 4.5 quarts. 4.2 quarts is with filter change, which I always do. I'm overfilling a little, but it looks correct on the dipstick and I ingest some oil between changes through the breather hoses. (Look on valve cover, 1/2" hose on top center, connects to intake tract somewhere.) I add no more than a half quart between changes though, and I watch it pretty closely.

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Craig: I think the thing is it's impossible to drain every last drop of oil. Drain it when the engine is hot, which thins the oil and helps a bit.

    Half a quart too high is probably OK. Grossly overfilled and you could have a problem.

    -juice
  • snopeoplsnopeopl Member Posts: 9
    Kate: Thanks for the info. When I was starting the car buying process, I talked to my current mechanic (in Castro Valley) about Subarus and he said it's hard to find people to work on them. He did say he works on a Subaru for a friend, but didn't offer to work on mine if I buy one. BUT if I convince him down the road, I'll let you know, and maybe he'll work on both of them! It's a good auto shop, owned by my neighbor, so I trust them completely.
    Thanks.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They are quirky - a Japanese boxer engine. They'll need metric tools, Porsche experience, and a good sense of humor.

    If you've ever seen the instructions that come with some of the parts, you'll know what I mean!

    -juice
  • originalbitmanoriginalbitman Member Posts: 920
    After my dealer over fill experience I became a fanatic at checking the oil on my 00 GT wagon. One thing for sure is that getting and consistent reading is pretty tricky. I found that the following all have an impact on dipstick reading:

    Engine Temp: Cold vs warm vs hot

    Drip Time (time between shutting off engine and reading dipstick): 30 seconds vs 2 minutes vs 24 hours

    Level Surface: Tilt left vs right vs front vs back.

    While at the in-laws in Florida I did a hot oil change and let it drain until the drips were few and far between. Added 4.25 quarts of oil and a new filter. I started the car, ran it for a minute or two and then shut it off. I immediately checked the oil and had a reading just below full. After sitting for another 5 minutes it was
    just above full. After sitting for nearly 24 hours I checked again an it was a little above the hot notch. After running on the highway for 3 or 4 hours I checked again at a rest area on what seemed to be fairly level pavement and got a below full reading. After sitting for 5 or so minutes the dipstick read right at or slightly over the hot notch. The next day after another 300 or so highway miles I checked it at a gas station just after shutting off and it was half way between full and low. Moved the car to a perhaps more flat spot and waited a few minutes and it read right at the hot notch. I repeated this experience for the next 2000 miles including the hot notch reading cold after sitting 24 hours. Once home (3000 miles since change) I changed the oil and drained exactly 4 quarts from the crankcase and filter. I imagine there was a little in the filter element and either I burned some or a little was still hanging in the engine. Even if I burned a quarter quart in 3000 miles at mostly 70-80 mph loaded and climbing mountain passes I won't be too concerned.

    Hot oil runs off the dipstick but if you wipe it with a clean rag, jam it in and pull it out you will get a fairly good reading. But if the oil is really hot it will be difficult to read as it will be thin and runny. Also, you will get a different reading on the backside of the dipstick. The boxer engine must take a long time to drain oil into the oil pan.

    The bottom line is to pick a consistent place, engine temp and drip time to take a reading. Do this right after you know there is 4.2 quarts in the crankcase and you will have a benchmark for future readings. Don't trust anyone but yourself to stick 4.2 quarts of oil in your car. I found out the hard way as the dealer in Appleton filled mine so that when hot and after dripping for 5 minutes it was a good inch above the hot notch. My wife found out that even "good" mechanics tend to pour in the whole last quart rather stopping at the prescribed partial quart on her Honda. The question is why would a dealer and don't they have a bulk oil dispenser that can be set to a specified quantity?


    Bit
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bit: weren't you the one obsessing about the suspension height a while back? ;)

    I've seen some shops that had a barrel of oil, and a hose coming down that literally poured it in when you pull a trigger.

    Perhaps shops tend to overfill because customers feel like they're getting more for their money? Just a thought...

    -juice
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I knew you would be the guy to address this issue once and for all! You know, if you called in to the Car Talk guys with this story, they would have a field day -- I think they would probably accuse you of being a retired engineer!

    I think it's a great idea to "calibrate" your dipstick habits so you know what's really a correct reading for your particular situation. I have always read oil levels on a cold engine (or one that has not been running for at least 2-3 hours), and as flat a surface as possible. Haven't seen much variation with that particulat "habit". I would definitely avoid checking the oil on a hot engine -- there are all sorts of baffles and valves designed to maintain oil pressure in an engine, and you really need to give the oil time to drain and settle out before attempting any sort of repeatable measurement. Sort of like trying to measure the liquid contained in a sponge before you squeeze it out!

    I'm sure you could easily have had 0.25-0.5 qt of oil in the filter -- they usually account for about that much in my experience. Even after you dump the fliter out, there is a fair amount still soaked into the element.

    Craig
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'd hate to see how you flush your coolant! ;)

    -juice
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    Got a chance to ride in the back seat of our '00 OB the other day. While back there, I started hearing a faint rattling noise when going over certain bumps or irregularities on the road. (An example is one of those sewer caps that kind of sit below the asphalt line a bit.) The noise was coming from behind the rear seat, like it was coming from the rear wheels.

    First thing I did was check the rear seat area. Made sure it was in place properly (seat back locked in place, etc.) Checked the spare tire, jack, rear cargo shade. All secure. Tire PSI at 31 all around. Jacked up the left side and did a quick visual. Wheel is not loose; nothing appeared broken. But it is difficult to spot something if you don't know what that something is.

    Then I took it for a ride. Adjusted the side mirrors to allow me to see the rear wheels as much as I could. It was hard to see clearly, but I appeared as if the rear wheel(s) bounce/skip a few extra times after going over one of those bumps.

    I'm going to take it to our dealer tomorrow and get it checked out. Since I don't know what's causing the noise, I'll most certainly drive another OB wagon to see if the noise appears and have a mechanic ride along with me in my OB so he can hear the noise.

    -brian/subearu
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Your springs are working perfectly, but the shocks may not be. The springs actually absorb the initial shock, and then rebound. The shocks are supposed the stop the rebounding so you don't wallow up and down the road.

    Have them check your shocks. Also have them look at your rear anti-roll bar. It may help to grease that up a bit - I've heard that can cause the noise.

    -juice
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    I've done the traditional shock test - push down on the rear bumper and release. It bounces about 2 times and then disappears. While driving over a suspect bump, it doesn't bounce like it's on waves (like water). It's like the wheel is driving on those rebound strips on the sides of the road - up & down quickly. The body doesn't do any of the bouncing - just the wheel.

    When I was underneath it yesterday, I did grab hold of the anti-roll bar. Didn't seem loose, but I could flex/move it if I applied some pressure. And I did notice some very minor fluid seepage on the shock (where the piston comes out).

    -brian/subearu
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The anti-roll bar will move with the pressure you describe. The end links are rubber and give at least an inch or so, especially side to side.

    My suggestion is to grease the bushings that hold that roll bar in place. You'll need ramps to see them, and may need to remove and replace them. I think it's a 12mm socket.

    Though the leak you saw may be the culprit.

    -juice
  • jerrys2jerrys2 Member Posts: 189
    I believe there was some discussion about daylight running lights some time ago. I have no problem with them...but I would like to control them myself, I passed a 2000 or 2001 Outback yesterday and no DRL. Anyone know how to effect this modification?

    Jerry
  • letochaletocha Member Posts: 3
    I'm curious whether anyone else has experienced the engine overheating problem we recently had with our 1999 Legacy L wagon. (My initial search of the message boards didn't reveal anything along these lines, so I apologize in advance if this has been discussed here in the past.)

    We'd enjoyed 17,000 trouble-free miles in about 14 months of ownership until two weeks ago, when my wife was driving on a highway about 15 miles from our home and the engine began to overheat very quickly. She made it home, but we had to have the car towed to our dealer because the overheating had thoroughly damaged the engine. Our dealer's mechanic informed us that the problem was with a thermostat that is used to regulate engine temperature. When that thermostat malfunctioned, the engine coolant simply wasn't used, and the engine quickly overheated.

    The mechanic had to replace about 3/4 of our engine. Everything was under warranty, and the dealer did provide us with a rental car, but the diagnosis and repair of the problem took two and a half full weeks. The primary reason for the delay was in figuring out just what had happened - apparently, this was the first time our dealer's mechanic had encountered a broken thermostat.

    Has anyone encountered similar problems?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Jerry: it may be breaking the law, since they're sold as a safety feature, but I'm sure it could be done.

    Richard - well, there was one guy at FATT (Friday at the Track) that had problems overheating, but that's in a racing scenario. I've never heard people complain about that.

    So long as the dealer covers it all, you should be good to go.

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Richard,

    That's the first I've heard of a broken thermostat too. My Forester has been great in triple digit weather in bumper to bumper traffic with A/C on high.

    Ken
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Question for anyone with the air filtration kit in their Forester: Has anyone found that the filter itself has a kind of a briny smell to it? I installed it this past weekend on my 98 Forester. While it works great, I did notice it's got a distinct odor to it. Wondering if it's normal and will subside with time.

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Ken: I never noticed any smell.

    Then again, I didn't notice much difference in air flow either. Maybe your senses are more refined?

    -juice
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    Finally was able to hop over to the dealer. Had the Subaru service manager hop in for a ride. No sooner did we back out of the service bay, we here the noise and he hops out right away to take a closer look. You now can here a faint squeak/moan when you push down on the rear (like you do when you test the shocks) - both inside AND outside the vehicle. Our guess is the shocks.

    I've also noticed that the rear is bouncing a bit more over dips in the road. So, it's gotta be the shocks.

    Ken - no brine like smell from the filter in our Outback. Maybe a contaminated set of filters?

    -brian/subearu
  • pattim3pattim3 Member Posts: 533
    Hi - I have no idea why that would have been so hard to diagnose and why it took so long. Did you call us at 1-800-SUBARU3? If not, give us a call so we can check out the details. I'd be very interested in knowing more about the repair.

    Cheers!

    Patti
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Brian: glad you were able to reproduce the symptoms. Hopefully they can resolve it on the first visit, then.

    The air filtration filters are paper, so I can't see how they'd get contaminated without you knowing about it.

    -juice
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    If it's a squeak/creak/groan/moan sound that is worse in cold weather, it's probably due to a rubber bushing somewhere, likely the ones holding the sway bar. Should be easy to fix with some lithium grease. But that doesn't explain why the rear is bouncing -- that would definitely be the shocks like you suspect. Keep us posted.

    Craig
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Hi Patti.
    Any chance I could get an update on my case (253349)? I was getting worried last night because the squeak was so bad. Everything sounds so dry. Another OBS owner in PA just had a new clutch assembly installed (after 2 or 3 prior throw-out bearing replacements) and his squeak returned the next day. I gave him my case number and his service dept. may contact you guys. I'm taking a friend shopping for cars this weekend and the Legacy GT is on her list. I'm sure when she gets into my car she'll say "What the heck is that? And you want me to get a Subaru??".
    I must say that SoA's handling of my problem has been excellent!!
    Dennis
  • luck11luck11 Member Posts: 425
    Well my 00 OB is in the dealer today to have the brakes cleaned.

    When I called my service advisor I said "I have a problem with my brakes". He immediately interjected asking if they were squeaking when the brakes were being lightly applied and sometimes under regular braking. He knew my problem before I even explained it to him!! My dealer continues to amaze me with the knowledge they have on Subaru and with their awareness of repeat problems. I may be overdoing it for some of you, but prior to Soob, my experiences with the Big Three has been, lets just say, less than satisfying.

    It seems that, as someone posted earlier, the pads are made of extremely dense metallic material to increase their longevity. Sometimes, they become a bit too smooth and/or contaminated with dirt, thus causing the squeaking. My dealer has seen it on numerous Soobs and immediately offered to clean and rough up the surfaces.

    2000 0B, approx 7,000 miles.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    What was the dealer's name?

    Nice to find good, no-nonsense service.

    -juice
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    I'll mention that squeaky brake fix next week when the shocks are replaced.

    The suspension noise/creak/squeak is not dependent on temperature. But, it is getting more noticeable, especially outside of the vehicle.

    I gotta say though that both of these things are just minor probs. to us. We still our quite proud of her - 'Sue Bear' we call her. We'll be even happier when we get it back after the repairs!

    Anyone know how the shocks might go bad like this? Did they crank it down too hard on the trailer? Bad set?

    -brian/subearu
  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    you seem to be *hoppy* with your visit to the dealer #1064. Sorry, couldn't resist.

    Ross
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    I'll be 'hoppy'-er after it's fixed! It's a nice 25 minute drive home from the dealer - so I'll be sure to test out every possible bump on the road to determine whether or not the 'hop' has been cured. More Tuesday when it goes in for service.

    -brian/subearu
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    Dealer called - said it's a rear strut that's bad. But, they don't stock them and it will take up to a week to get one. Yikes!

    Good news though - they cleaned up the brakes. So, the noise should be gone now.

    I've emailed QSubaru to see if she stocks any struts.

    -brian/subearu
  • originalbitmanoriginalbitman Member Posts: 920
    1. What are the correct points that I use a floor jack on my 00 GT wagon?

    2. Where do I place jack stands?

    3. Suggestions for differential and manual tranny fluids.

    And last with all the talk on these boards regarding tires I am stumped as to what to do for my occasional treks to the Sierras this winter. The GT has the RE92s and it seems a lot of folks think they are useless in snow. I hate to think I need to replace them at 10k miles or even buy a set of winter tires for perhaps a dozen trips into winter weather. Can I drive these tires in the snow with any cofidence?

    Bit
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    My favorite locations:

    Large floor jack = under engine crossmember, under rear differential.

    Put one jackstand under each frame rail while front or rear is off the ground. If you need to raise the left/right side instead of front/rear, I use a floor jack on the frame rails as far forward or rearward as possible.

    -Colin
  • originalbitmanoriginalbitman Member Posts: 920
    I kinda thought it would be okay at the frame rail points where the service lifts make contact. But I wasn't sure about the crossmember or rear dif.
  • spaprockispaprocki Member Posts: 1
    My little '93 Legacy has been stalling when going uphill (And I live on a hill!). It seems to be better with higher grade gas, and a 3/4+ full tank. Here is the interesting thing - I pull over just before (or after) the engine dies, and loosen the gas cap. Pffffft, it says. Usually, she starts right up after that!

    Well, not usually; always so far.

    I think it is some venting problem, but when I took it in to the dealer, they refused to listen to my comment about the gas cap, and insisted on putting it through all sorts of electronic diagnostics (I made an appointment and did not keep it.)

    Shoot, I can't afford hundreds to diagnose what to me clearly relates to the gas or fuel lines - the only thing that works, and it always works, is popping the gas tank cap.

    BTW, once it stalled on flat road, but when I pulled of the street I noticed that the gas cap cover door was open. Some odd reverse pressure thing?

    What do you folks think? Gas line? Gas filter?? Some odd pressure valve in the tank???

    RSVP ASAP - so far I've had to go many miles out of my way to insure that I do not go up too sharp an incline.
  • hammersleyhammersley Member Posts: 684
    Sounds like your gas cap vent is plugged, or otherwise not working, creating a vacuum in your tank that the fuel pump can't deal with... cheapest attempt at a fix would be try another gas cap... save your receipt & return it if it doesn't solve the problem....

    my 2 cents worth... good luck!

    Cheers!
    Paul
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I've heard people on CarTalk call in with this sort of problem, and they always talk about a vent "cannister" somewhere in the fuel system. If this gets plugged up, it will cause the problems you describe. I don't know what Subaru used as an evaporative control on the 93 Legacy, but it might be worth a look to see if there is indeed a cannister or other vent system.

    Craig
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    There should be an evaporative purge canister under the hood. I can take a picture of mine (99 2.5RS) if it might be of any help. There also might be a diagram of it under the hood, near the fire matting (there is on my Impreza).

    -Colin
  • letochaletocha Member Posts: 3
    ... juice, Ken and Patti. Patti, I'll be sure to call your 800 number and explain the situation! We were mystified by our overheated thermostat and the delay in diagnosing the problem, particularly when we've been delighted with our Subie in every other way.

    Richard
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    So, I've got our OB back, bad strut and all. Good news though - they cleaned up the brakes and there's no more squealing - for now at least.

    I guess I'm disappointed that the one dealer in our area doesn't stock items like this. Aren't dealers required to stock certain items?

    -brian/subearu
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Subaru is a little tiny reseller compared to the core GM brands, and even Honda has parts that have to come from overseas on demand.

    So no, I'm not at all surprised that part is not in your dealers on-hand inventory.

    -Colin
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