And let's not mention that it's logical to hold grudges against WW II countries because there might be still a few people alive who were involved.
I guess "a few" is relative. There are 2,700 Americans who were at Pearl Harbor that day who were still alive as of 12/7/11, for instance.
For me, personally, too, I put the sins of Roger Smith et al on one side of the scale, and Germany and Japan on the other, and it sends Roger Smith et al into the stratosphere. But that's only me, and only part of the entire picture to me. Every bit as large of an item is also, generally, styling, and keeping the most Americans working. Plus, I tend to root for the underdog, which is why I like Studebakers for old cars, liked Carly Simon when Linda Ronstadt was all the rage, like Woody Allen movies over whatever the blockbuster-of-the-week is, etc. etc.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
True, and I dislike that, but he makes great movies, most of the time. And at least, they got married and stayed married!
If I didn't spend money on certain entertainers because of their beliefs, I'm sure I'd be reading and watching and listening to...nothing!
The entertainer that I just can't get past, is Alec Baldwin, since his nutcase rant to his eleven-year-old daughter went public. I can't even look at the guy. Seems like most of America has forgiven him for that though.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
If Volvo sent you a check for $1,000 tomorrow, for damages done and incurred in the past, would that make them more pleasing to you now?
I wouldn't turn the money down. :shades:
A $1,000 off coupon probably wouldn't get me to the dealer. A $25 voucher for a test drive might.
Maybe GM should do more of that to drive some showroom traffic.
Actually I have a sure-fire sales idea for GM (or other manufacturer, or just any dealer for that matter). Give away free (or cheap) check engine scans and ten minute diagnoses. Set up a lane like they do for quickie oil changes. If the problem is simple and the owner gets the code cleared on his GM car for $20, that'll endear lots of people to GM.
If the problem is intermittent or not so easily addressed, at least the owner is just out some time and it doesn't cost her $100 just to find out that the car needs $1,500 worth of work.
You know AutoZone sells scads of parts doing free OBDII scans and battery checks.
"“What we are really trying to do is distinguish Cadillac as its own brand,” said Grace Morgan, director of GM auto shows. “It is important for us to show that we can compete with those other luxury brands that are out there.”
Every bit as large of an item is also, generally, styling, and keeping the most Americans working.
What partially led to the demise of GM was the feeling of the UAW that their workers would keep getting higher wages for poor or mediocre work, because they were US-made, and therefore no one would call them on an even matchup.
I support the best team, and not the rah-rah for the local team, just because they are local. It's time to end that form of tribalism, that has caused so much conflict in the world. You want my business, then earn it. Just because you put a bow-tie on it, I'm not falling in love with a pig-in-a-dress.
I've bought and owned 4 new GM's pre-BK so if anything - I liked GM. They are damaged-goods now. Corporate low-life, drunken-sailors, ego-trip too-big-to-fail, leeches on society. "Entitlement" in all forms needs to stop in this country. Everyone needs to literally pick up a shovel, or a book, and work hard and excel. Watch "Starship Troopers", and realize what a "citizen" should be doing.
>How come Ford, or Chrysler for that matter, don't generate the same hate here
I should be posting on the Ford discussion about the POT Torino 351w engine with the timing chain that wore out at 70K miles. The Ford service department told me if it had more than 60K on it, it was worn out.
I could post every day in a Ford discussion alternating with the 289 engine in my Mustang that fouled plugs and burned points. Then there's the Wide Oval tires that lasted 12,000 miles on the Mustang that Ford put on. then there's the AC belt on the 70 Mustang that would keep jumping off the pulley.
But I don't. I traded the Torino for a '77 Cutlass Supreme Brougham the day I got it out of the shop and never looked back. Although I did swear I'd never buy another Ford, and I didn't. But I did win a 79 Mustang.
What is the difference in the mindset between Ford complainers and GM haters? Is it the hatred toward GM from the Nader era at Consumer Reports when GM was the 9th largest GDP among counties? And it was regularly chastised as part of the military industrial war complex in the US by the "alternate" folks in our society? Was that the 70s?--I'm having a Hillary moment.
I suspect there's some of that hate of massive GM from the hippie era left in the news media folks who still slant their news and views. That media slant affects the perceptions of some of the public while others in the public form their own opinion.
Do Ford owners of the 3.8 engines -was it in the Windstars?- with the head problems constantly post their vitriol on the Ford forums?
I'm glad I can't remember when Linda Ronstadt was all the rage
It was as tough to tell folks I liked Carly Simon then, as it is here to like GM!
I saw Ronstadt as largely a country-voice-style singer, who made her reputation on '50's remakes. Carly wrote much of her material, and played piano and guitar, largely stayed out of the public spotlight, and had a smoky low, but crystal-clear voice.
But I digress.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
How come Ford, or Chrysler for that matter, don't generate the same hate here that GM does?
Because GM takes a commanding responsibility for the fall of Detroit. That is the one FACT that will always bring back the distaste for what happened to all Big 3 (not to mention the personal issues I had with their product!).
GM not only leads in global sales but in the bankruptcy of Detroit. Sort of the poster child (long with the big banks) on how greed, complacency and poor management led the decline of the U.S. manufacturing industry as the economy imploded because of the bursting credit bubble.
After C failed the first time, did anyone think they would ever be a good car company? Jeep is the only real brand left as the minivan gave way to the SUV.
Ford leads GM out of the ashes mainly because they sucked it up on their own and are now about 2 years ahead of GM, both in perception and reality.
Isn't the Fusion the only Ford auto nameplate that is outselling its Chevy counterpart? I know the F-150 leads in trucks, but does it lead the combined brands of Chevy and GMC? What are the most-recent figures?
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
That always cracks me up. Think what the alternative would have been.
Regardless of the alternatives of the GM failure, the reality is it's still part owned by taxpayers at the moment. $16B cracks a lot of people up. A merer pittance as GM is worth it, right?
Sort of leads to the next chapter of failure when you loose track of billions. afaic.
Well, let's take it further. What about GM total versus Ford total? Because, after all, this is a GM forum, not just a Chevy forum.
And you never answered how you felt the Escape was, advanced-wise, as compared to the Equinox (and Terrain).
Nor, how the Camaro and Cruze outsell their Ford counterparts?
Nor, if Chevy and GMC trucks outsell the F-150. I really don't know. And I'm talking now, not last year, not January of this year, now....what is the current trend?
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
I wouldn't call either of them "advanced" but to satisfy your question (even if I wasn't the intended reciever) sure the latest nox and Terrain are more "modern" because they are only into their second year on the market. The Escape has been pretty much the same (sans the facelift) since 2000 so it pretty much retains it's Y2k mission.
Compared to the first gen Equinox and it's clones (Pontiac Torrent, ya Pontiac... :lemon: and the Suzuki XL-7 ) sporting a coarse, Chinese boatanchor (Only 20 years old by that time and completely non-competitive in performance, smoothness and fuel economy) under the hood and having a chassis stiffness of a stick of butter, Fords Mazda6 derived underpinnings and buttery smooth, Duratec was downright sporty by comparison. Interior-wise the Ford wasn't Lexus like but it was solid and the materials are of good quality. My experience with the Nox (which I referred to as the "Cheapuinox") was such a low point in GM designed interiors, I still believe the interior was designed for a Colorado pickup than a midsize, carlike utility vehicle... The latest version is such an improvment, SUCH an improvement...
But as far as the new gen Escape goes, I think the styling is a lot more modern compared to the generic two box look of the GM twins and the with about 150lbs less weight to haul around, it should be more sprightly.
As far as advancements go, the Equinox's adjustable/programmable lift gate is neat, but the Escape has a nifty little gadget where you swipe your foot under the rear bumper and the liftgate goes up automatically. Then there is the self-parking a-la-Lexus LS which is advanced but pointless IMO.
Lastly, there is the price. The Equinox can get into the 30's loaded, the Escape I predict much less. Actually, I think the proper comparison price-wise may be the Edge...
My .02 :shades: (sorry if it sounds like a cobbled together response, I'm typing this as I work)
Sorry, didn't mean to imply that was a base Camaro no options, just that dealers do stock them starting around that price. $26,103.00 is the no-haggle price but the MSRP is $28,255.00. It's still available on fitzmall.com's web site, but they only have 6 in stock.
FWIW Baldwin's rant was directed towards his wife, who was denying him custody of their daughter. I think that's why people looked past it.
Fiat 500 is a flop only because expectations were TOTALLY unrealistic. Fiat demanded independent dealerships instead of just using existing Dodge or Chrysler stores. They were aiming for 200 outlets, does anyone know how many they actually have now?
The 50k forecast was absurd. 20k sales for the tiny number of dealers they have is not bad, for comparison MINI sold 25,305 Coopers thru end of November, and they're considered a cult hit? How many dealerships does MINI have? They've been established for years and years, too.
Volt has not gone nationwide, either. Delays are bad news, but it's too early to judge, and they met 75% of an optimistic goal. That's not exactly a flop.
CR data being reliable? That's a good one - enough to get me started. at least. They use member input, and you have to be a "member" as in a liberal, import loving domestic hating, biased, blinders on, tunnel vision hater who's input skews the information that CR (actually CU) uses and serves up as gospel, which the same kool-aid drinkers lap up.
I hope i was clear in my introduction.
Now that I'm drawn into this I'll have to respond in kind to some of the more items that caught my eye.
"Well, you must admit (it's OK to admit), that most comments on this board are anti-GM, and made again...and again...and again....by the same handful of people. I truly wonder if dave8697 and lemko continually bash on Toyota or Hyundai forums. I know I don't, because I don't feel compelled to even look there since I don't like their cars. "
Amen to that. I don't even bother as well. I like my cars.
All I can add is the trouble spots on the cars I've owned have generally matched the trouble areas indicated in CR.
Ditto that for the cars my family and I have owned. CR seems to know exactly what went wrong with all of my cars, without my having ever filled out a survey personally for them.
Oh yeah, the famously accurate (NOT) CR trouble spots. Which if they WERE based in reality would have left all of my wife & my long term cars dead on the side of the road several times over In each car) in the past 25 years.
125,000 miles in a supposedly terrible Cavalier that was still fine when we gave it to her niece 175,000 mi in a LeSabre that i saw three years later still running down the road 198,000 in a Fleetwood that would still be running if it wasn't sideswiped by a van (probably the only thing that could kill it) 135,000 in an eldorado that met a similar fate 118,000 in a CTS that is still running
The last three were so bad, that i hunted down a low miles (for its age) 1996 Fleetwood to replace the 1995, and a RWD V8 STS to replace the Eldorado and a newer CTS to replace the 2005 CTS.
Yeah GM cars really do suck...That's why i have over a million miles in them, most of that trouble free.
and you have to be a "member" as in a liberal, import loving domestic hating, biased, blinders on, tunnel vision hater who's input skews the information that CR (actually CU) uses and serves up as gospel
Wow. Can you show me which CR/CU application for subscription membership (online or from a magazine insert) requires you to check boxes that you are:
1) liberal 2) import loving 3) domestic hating 4) biased 5) wear blinders 6) have tunnel vision
When you do show me those applications you can have some credibility with your statements.
Otherwise, I'd say the only one with blinders and tunnel vision is you.
GM and Chrysler ignored CR to their own detriment and death. The US gov't performed a resurrection, but how long will that last?
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
CR data being reliable? That's a good one - enough to get me started. at least. They use member input, and you have to be a "member" as in a liberal, import loving domestic hating, biased, blinders on, tunnel vision hater who's input skews the information that CR (actually CU) uses and serves up as gospel, which the same kool-aid drinkers lap up.
Welcome to the board Mike!
Your account name suggests some bias, no?
If CR subscribers were domestic-hating, then there would be no domestic owners to report on their experiences. Since CR does get domestic reports, those people who are reporting their domestic experiences must have bought domestic vehicles, hence they can't be domestic-haters. So your logic is quite flawed.
I post this not because it is a big number recall but the nature of this recall shows some QCissues that are real hard to ignore.
It turns out that Chevrolet let a few Sonics built between June 2 and November 21 leave its factory in Orion Township, Michigan minus a brake pad. General Motors claims that of the 4,873 Sonics built during that time, some 20 to 30 may be missing either an inner or outer front brake pad. The company says 4,296 of the potentially shoe-less Sonics were sent to the U.S., while 577 migrated north to Canadian customers.
Comments
I guess "a few" is relative. There are 2,700 Americans who were at Pearl Harbor that day who were still alive as of 12/7/11, for instance.
For me, personally, too, I put the sins of Roger Smith et al on one side of the scale, and Germany and Japan on the other, and it sends Roger Smith et al into the stratosphere. But that's only me, and only part of the entire picture to me. Every bit as large of an item is also, generally, styling, and keeping the most Americans working. Plus, I tend to root for the underdog, which is why I like Studebakers for old cars, liked Carly Simon when Linda Ronstadt was all the rage, like Woody Allen movies over whatever the blockbuster-of-the-week is, etc. etc.
If I didn't spend money on certain entertainers because of their beliefs, I'm sure I'd be reading and watching and listening to...nothing!
The entertainer that I just can't get past, is Alec Baldwin, since his nutcase rant to his eleven-year-old daughter went public. I can't even look at the guy. Seems like most of America has forgiven him for that though.
Wow, that tells me that dealers are still getting sticker for six-cylinder Camaros. I would not have expected that.
In thirty-one years of new car purchases, I have never bought a car that was in such demand the dealer expected MSRP.
Regards,
OW
Um, OK.
That always cracks me up. Think what the alternative would have been.
I wouldn't turn the money down. :shades:
A $1,000 off coupon probably wouldn't get me to the dealer. A $25 voucher for a test drive might.
Maybe GM should do more of that to drive some showroom traffic.
Actually I have a sure-fire sales idea for GM (or other manufacturer, or just any dealer for that matter). Give away free (or cheap) check engine scans and ten minute diagnoses. Set up a lane like they do for quickie oil changes. If the problem is simple and the owner gets the code cleared on his GM car for $20, that'll endear lots of people to GM.
If the problem is intermittent or not so easily addressed, at least the owner is just out some time and it doesn't cost her $100 just to find out that the car needs $1,500 worth of work.
You know AutoZone sells scads of parts doing free OBDII scans and battery checks.
"“What we are really trying to do is distinguish Cadillac as its own brand,” said Grace Morgan, director of GM auto shows. “It is important for us to show that we can compete with those other luxury brands that are out there.”
"“General Motors doesn’t sell products,” Morgan said. “Our individual brands do.”"
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I'm glad I can't remember when Linda Ronstadt was all the rage :shades:
What partially led to the demise of GM was the feeling of the UAW that their workers would keep getting higher wages for poor or mediocre work, because they were US-made, and therefore no one would call them on an even matchup.
I support the best team, and not the rah-rah for the local team, just because they are local. It's time to end that form of tribalism, that has caused so much conflict in the world. You want my business, then earn it. Just because you put a bow-tie on it, I'm not falling in love with a pig-in-a-dress.
I've bought and owned 4 new GM's pre-BK so if anything - I liked GM. They are damaged-goods now. Corporate low-life, drunken-sailors, ego-trip too-big-to-fail, leeches on society. "Entitlement" in all forms needs to stop in this country. Everyone needs to literally pick up a shovel, or a book, and work hard and excel. Watch "Starship Troopers", and realize what a "citizen" should be doing.
And don't tell me it's because Ford didn't take federal money (Jalopnik, Business Week).
Who's that? She must have been before my time. :P
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I should be posting on the Ford discussion about the POT Torino 351w engine with the timing chain that wore out at 70K miles. The Ford service department told me if it had more than 60K on it, it was worn out.
I could post every day in a Ford discussion alternating with the 289 engine in my Mustang that fouled plugs and burned points. Then there's the Wide Oval tires that lasted 12,000 miles on the Mustang that Ford put on. then there's the AC belt on the 70 Mustang that would keep jumping off the pulley.
But I don't. I traded the Torino for a '77 Cutlass Supreme Brougham the day I got it out of the shop and never looked back. Although I did swear I'd never buy another Ford, and I didn't. But I did win a 79 Mustang.
What is the difference in the mindset between Ford complainers and GM haters? Is it the hatred toward GM from the Nader era at Consumer Reports when GM was the 9th largest GDP among counties? And it was regularly chastised as part of the military industrial war complex in the US by the "alternate" folks in our society? Was that the 70s?--I'm having a Hillary moment.
I suspect there's some of that hate of massive GM from the hippie era left in the news media folks who still slant their news and views. That media slant affects the perceptions of some of the public while others in the public form their own opinion.
Do Ford owners of the 3.8 engines -was it in the Windstars?- with the head problems constantly post their vitriol on the Ford forums?
What do others think?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The lousy transmission that went with it as well as their dismal customer service.
I know their product has gotten better. I wonder about the attitude.
I feel similarly towards GM.
It was as tough to tell folks I liked Carly Simon then, as it is here to like GM!
I saw Ronstadt as largely a country-voice-style singer, who made her reputation on '50's remakes. Carly wrote much of her material, and played piano and guitar, largely stayed out of the public spotlight, and had a smoky low, but crystal-clear voice.
But I digress.
France, I do. Fools.
I would like to see Normandy at some point, and I'm told that's not a prevailing feeling there, I'm happy to hear.
Because GM takes a commanding responsibility for the fall of Detroit. That is the one FACT that will always bring back the distaste for what happened to all Big 3 (not to mention the personal issues I had with their product!).
GM not only leads in global sales but in the bankruptcy of Detroit. Sort of the poster child (long with the big banks) on how greed, complacency and poor management led the decline of the U.S. manufacturing industry as the economy imploded because of the bursting credit bubble.
After C failed the first time, did anyone think they would ever be a good car company? Jeep is the only real brand left as the minivan gave way to the SUV.
Ford leads GM out of the ashes mainly because they sucked it up on their own and are now about 2 years ahead of GM, both in perception and reality.
Regards,
OW
One were great but led the fall of the U.S. auto industry.
Regards,
OW
And their Focus and Mustang are trailing in sales behind their competitors from Chevy.
Regards,
OW
Take a look by brand:
Chevy Brand YTD = 1,614,654
Ford Brand YTD = 1,856,166
Regards,
OW
That always cracks me up. Think what the alternative would have been.
Regardless of the alternatives of the GM failure, the reality is it's still part owned by taxpayers at the moment. $16B cracks a lot of people up. A merer pittance as GM is worth it, right?
Sort of leads to the next chapter of failure when you loose track of billions. afaic.
Regards,
OW
And you never answered how you felt the Escape was, advanced-wise, as compared to the Equinox (and Terrain).
Nor, how the Camaro and Cruze outsell their Ford counterparts?
Nor, if Chevy and GMC trucks outsell the F-150. I really don't know. And I'm talking now, not last year, not January of this year, now....what is the current trend?
http://www.insideline.com/fiat/500/chevrolet-volt-fiat-500-2011-sales-flops.html-
Compared to the first gen Equinox and it's clones (Pontiac Torrent, ya Pontiac... :lemon: and the Suzuki XL-7 ) sporting a coarse, Chinese boatanchor (Only 20 years old by that time and completely non-competitive in performance, smoothness and fuel economy) under the hood and having a chassis stiffness of a stick of butter, Fords Mazda6 derived underpinnings and buttery smooth, Duratec was downright sporty by comparison. Interior-wise the Ford wasn't Lexus like but it was solid and the materials are of good quality. My experience with the Nox (which I referred to as the "Cheapuinox") was such a low point in GM designed interiors, I still believe the interior was designed for a Colorado pickup than a midsize, carlike utility vehicle... The latest version is such an improvment, SUCH an improvement...
But as far as the new gen Escape goes, I think the styling is a lot more modern compared to the generic two box look of the GM twins and the with about 150lbs less weight to haul around, it should be more sprightly.
As far as advancements go, the Equinox's adjustable/programmable lift gate is neat, but the Escape has a nifty little gadget where you swipe your foot under the rear bumper and the liftgate goes up automatically. Then there is the self-parking a-la-Lexus LS which is advanced but pointless IMO.
Lastly, there is the price. The Equinox can get into the 30's loaded, the Escape I predict much less. Actually, I think the proper comparison price-wise may be the Edge...
My .02 :shades: (sorry if it sounds like a cobbled together response, I'm typing this as I work)
FWIW Baldwin's rant was directed towards his wife, who was denying him custody of their daughter. I think that's why people looked past it.
Fiat 500 is a flop only because expectations were TOTALLY unrealistic. Fiat demanded independent dealerships instead of just using existing Dodge or Chrysler stores. They were aiming for 200 outlets, does anyone know how many they actually have now?
The 50k forecast was absurd. 20k sales for the tiny number of dealers they have is not bad, for comparison MINI sold 25,305 Coopers thru end of November, and they're considered a cult hit? How many dealerships does MINI have? They've been established for years and years, too.
Volt has not gone nationwide, either. Delays are bad news, but it's too early to judge, and they met 75% of an optimistic goal. That's not exactly a flop.
Siverado/Sierra = 367,343/132,675 = 500,018....
Ford Wins. :shades:
Camaro ahead of Mustang. Cruze beats Focus.
GM Total = 2,269,446
Ford Total = 1,933,654
Ford prfoit margin beats GM profit Margin.
New Ford Escape ahead of the current Equinox, advance-wise. :shades:
Regards
1. Bring the Cruze diesel right now
2. Replace the iron in the engine blocks with alloys, try to trim some weight from certain models
3. Let's see some hot hatches, a Cruze 5 door or Sonic
4. More Direct Injection - should spread to every model eventually.
5. Consider bringing the new compact pickups here from overseas.
Most of all, employ continuous improvement in every product line, from B-segment cars all the way to luxury SUVs.
I hope i was clear in my introduction.
Now that I'm drawn into this I'll have to respond in kind to some of the more items that caught my eye.
While I prefer that engine in the RWD STS, It flew in my ElDorado and got 30MPG highway to boot
Hmmm.... I guess my hate of Chrysler hasn't come through on these forums and boards. I guess I need to make myself clearer.
Allow me to reiterate some points of hatred for Chrysler in the future.
To be continued....
Amen to that. I don't even bother as well. I like my cars.
Please re-read: Advance-Wise.
Regards,
OW
Ditto that for the cars my family and I have owned. CR seems to know exactly what went wrong with all of my cars, without my having ever filled out a survey personally for them.
Oh yeah, the famously accurate (NOT) CR trouble spots. Which if they WERE based in reality would have left all of my wife & my long term cars dead on the side of the road several times over In each car) in the past 25 years.
125,000 miles in a supposedly terrible Cavalier that was still fine when we gave it to her niece
175,000 mi in a LeSabre that i saw three years later still running down the road
198,000 in a Fleetwood that would still be running if it wasn't sideswiped by a van (probably the only thing that could kill it)
135,000 in an eldorado that met a similar fate
118,000 in a CTS that is still running
The last three were so bad, that i hunted down a low miles (for its age) 1996 Fleetwood to replace the 1995, and a RWD V8 STS to replace the Eldorado and a newer CTS to replace the 2005 CTS.
Yeah GM cars really do suck...That's why i have over a million miles in them, most of that trouble free.
Wow. Can you show me which CR/CU application for subscription membership (online or from a magazine insert) requires you to check boxes that you are:
1) liberal
2) import loving
3) domestic hating
4) biased
5) wear blinders
6) have tunnel vision
When you do show me those applications you can have some credibility with your statements.
Otherwise, I'd say the only one with blinders and tunnel vision is you.
GM and Chrysler ignored CR to their own detriment and death. The US gov't performed a resurrection, but how long will that last?
I think the prevailing attitude is that GM hasn't changed nearly enough. Some people don't want to admit that.
Look at Hyundai - they are being bolder than GM. Yet GM is the one resurrected from the dead.
And BTW, I liked Carly Simon, too. The No Secrets album was quite good -- and a killer cover!
Sales is NOT the measure you are looking for. GM ALWAYS led sales! Profitability is much more important. BMW doesn't lead in sales, either.
Welcome to the board Mike!
Your account name suggests some bias, no?
If CR subscribers were domestic-hating, then there would be no domestic owners to report on their experiences. Since CR does get domestic reports, those people who are reporting their domestic experiences must have bought domestic vehicles, hence they can't be domestic-haters. So your logic is quite flawed.
It turns out that Chevrolet let a few Sonics built between June 2 and November 21 leave its factory in Orion Township, Michigan minus a brake pad. General Motors claims that of the 4,873 Sonics built during that time, some 20 to 30 may be missing either an inner or outer front brake pad. The company says 4,296 of the potentially shoe-less Sonics were sent to the U.S., while 577 migrated north to Canadian customers.
Just sayin'.
Regards,
OW