By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
I'll look over on the Nissan forum to see if you mentioned these there.
Regards,
OW
OK, but really -- let's look at this without regard to what company is what. One manufacturer, in the same year, after failure and bankruptcy, with a multi-decade reputation for making a lot of junky cars - puts out TWO recalls - one for steering wheels that might come off, and the other for missing brake pads! Other companies might have more recalls, but it's also a seriousness issue. Even rusty frames from a supplier after a number of years of salt road don't compare to these two cases. It's not a good sign. Which is why we are still skeptical of that recently reformed drunk who wants to watch your daughter while you go up to the mountains for the weekend. :surprise:
Well Nissan is not trying to recover from the reputation that GM has.
What was the recall for? I honestly have not looked it up.
Same here; I saw more Hondas with peeling off paint than any other brand; many are only 5 year old Hondas.
Also many of the repairs are relatively inexpensive in comparison to the foreign makes....
Agree on both.
Yet they are back to No. 1 in the world. The rest of the automakers must be dumber...
Ah, yes, it's good to be number one, right?
History WILL repeat itself.
Regards,
OW
Just trying to stay on topic (at least for the holidays!) to make your life easier. If anyone wants to see that I gave Chrysler equal reaming (well at least their former owner - Cerberus and the golden-parachute they got), go over to that board.
I bought a few lousy Fords in the 80's, and I'm still half warm to them. Best car I ever owned an '88 Honda CRX.
You keep forgetting that GM was #1 the whole time they went from 50% market-share to 20%! LOL Was that success? Or dumb!
And GM is #1 now; but will they need another bailout, if the most likely scenario of Europe spinning downward in the next couple of years happens? I would say GM is so weak they wouldn't survive a Euro-collapse.
So any GM execs out there - do like Ford did in 2008, get your credit now! Get your credit now! Before the bank failures start, and credit locks up for a while.
A few days ago, I saw something really curious...a 2003-07 Accord, in midnight blue, with the paint peeling off. Now, let me re-iterate, this was "a" 2003-07 Accord, and not "several" or "many" 2003-2007 Accords! :P
Still, it was kinda shocking. I can't remember the last time I've seen a car that new, with paint issues like that. Once upon a time, that's how you told the US-built Accords apart from the Japanese-built ones. The US models made the switch to weaker, environmentally-friendly paints and primers early on, and they just didn't hold up.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2011/12/recalls-nissan-sent- ra-juke-battery-garmin-navi-fire-stall-/1
At Autobeef (car complaint website) it showed a relatively new 350Z with paint that was actually cracking off in flakes.
Most recent GM models seem very well painted. My wife's 2008 Aura, outside all year, has a glass-like look, with no eggshell at all. It is still as shiny as the day we got it and it has only one or two hood chips (Touched up of course). The quality paint job was one of the first things I noticed about it. To be fair I don't see much eggshell anymore on newer cars.
>Well Nissan is not trying to recover from the reputation that GM has.
>What was the recall for? I honestly have not looked it up.
So it doesn't matter how serious or massive the recall that is about something that the poster hasn't bothered to look up, it's just a matter of bashing GM because of the past reputation pasted on it by the GM-haters here! Really... :P
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
What Uplanderguy is missing is this:
Missing brake pads should be blatantly obvious. The malfunction or misalignment of a part that may, in the end, cause just as much risk to the driver is no less serious, nor no more acceptable... But is is much less obvious.
And, just for the record, I'd have made the same comment had it been Toyota, which also has image issues regarding its quality.
My suggestion is for, in this case, the GM loyalists to remove the chip on their shoulder and start being a bit more objective.
It's that very "defensive" arguing that drove the Big 3 to where they are today... The "we're being picked on" and "everybody else does it, too" excuses no longer work.
Quality product comes from dedication and attention to detail. Shipping cars without brake pads has neither of those.
Think about it objectively for a minute.
Interesting that from a different perspective, ANY manufacturer bashes itself regarding recalls.
Having a few missing brake pads is a glaring QC issue from a so-called leading manufacturer. Same with floor mats that interfere with accelerators and bad accelerators from a company called CTS.
In most cases, GM hated itself over the path leading to C-11 failure and now there seems to be lingering legacy from the old way.
Happy New Year!
Regards,
OW
It is what it is.
Regards,
OW
IIRC back in the malaise era, Ford often had good paint, I know the Fords in my family seemed to weather better than the GMs or Mopars.
Im even more curious to see how many sonics a certain poster here has actually personally noticed missing pads ,while driving down the freeway. :sick:
Probably the same amount of us that have seen driving down the freeway personally, the runaway Toyotas, which according to some here, was a rampant widespread problem.
EXCEPTION: When the runaway toyota was a publicity acting stunt by a formerly convicted scam artist.
At what level would you say a reasonable person should be concerned about the quality of ANY product with such glaring reports of omissions?
Would you say the advertising slogan "We're as bad as the other guy, but certainly no worse" would be an effective tool to gain sales and brand loyalty?
I admit, due to many previous ownership experiences involving GM products years ago to having once harbored a negative vision of the company. However, since the restructuring, I have patiently watched, and in many cases been impressed with the new GM.... To the point of driving a new Cruze, Malibu and Lucerne in consideration for my wife's next vehicle. They remain on the possibility list, even after this debacle.
My attitude about the missing brake pads would be the same if it was Nissan, Toyota, BMW or Rolls Royce. Omissions as blatant ( even on 1 vehicle) as this are inexcusable.
GM has a short window of opportunity to make a favorable impression. If they allow things such as this to continue, then GM, at least as we have known the company in the past, will disappear... Just like any other company that can't produce products of comparable quality as its competitors are able to deliver.
I certainly don't wish to place the name GM alongside that of Yugo.
My BIL's brother has an 06 Expedition, had the same spark plug issue as I had but worse. The dealer couldn't extract a plug that broke, so the head has to be pulled. To pull the head, the the body has to be lifted. So he's looking at a $3k bill over a damn spark plug. I was lucky as I only got hit for $1k to change the plugs.
So while I might have a bias towards Ford, I certainly realize they are not much if any better than GM in the dependability department.
On GM, Chevy had models Corsica and Baretta that had spark plug changing problems. To change some of them, engine mounts had to be disconnected and engine jacked up.
Had a Firebird with A/C years ago. In wintertime, the heater core broke, started to leak. Decided to fix it myself and had the shop manual.
To get at the hoses connection in the engine compartment, the manual said to remove the right front fender. So, I had to do that, but first had to remove the hood.
Then, inside, to get to the core, had to remove the console and various duct tubes under the dash. Pulling these out was tough, but tougher to get back in. Just like a big puzzle.
And, all of this was done in a cold garage with outside temps near zero.
Some Hondas in the 2003-2007 time frame had paint peeling problems in the Midnight Blue color only. Honda send a notice to owners that they extended the paint warranty to 7 years and said that they would repaint any affected areas free of charge during that time.
No, it has to do with the fact that a bad bracket causing the car to stall (potentially) or a bad battery doesn't compare to Missing Brake Pads or Removable Steering Wheel. It's not quantity of recalls, it's seriousness of the problem. My Acura TL had a recall for the outside temp gauge; I'm sure there were 10's of thousands of affected cars. I don't consider that a big issue relative to not being able to stop due to missing brake pads. I would think most people can see the difference.
Perhaps that's too ambitious. After all, if you're a GM aficionado after all these years, you either a) were one of the lucky ones who actually didn't have any problems (and I'm sure there are some of those); or b) you aren't very discriminating --> not good at thinking objectively!
As opposed to a Sonic with no brakes.... :P
Our 00 Accord with 240K on it still has decent paint and not a bit of rust. I only ever had one Honda out of 5 total that had rust issues. That was the 80 Accord and it developed them after four years on a barrier island.
Back in 80 the VW salesman was telling all these tales of recycled items in Hondas and how much better this made VWs. I bought a Rabbit which was the single worst car I've ever owned and the only car I got rid of while I still had payments. Then bought the used 80 Accord sedan which lasted me for 167K.
Only 167 K? My 1998 leSabre has 188,000 miles and is going strong.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
For some reason 167K was the magic number. That's how long I held on to my Maxima wagon which was still fine but fell victim to me getting convertible fever. Sold it to a coworker who still had it way past 200K and then sold it to someone else and it was still going tow years later.
The current Accord broke all of my mileage records. It has started needing repairs but they always seem cheaper than getting a cheap used car. This is my oldest daughter's DD.
BTW, I did have two Chevy Novas that win prizes for no problems during relatively short ownership periods and for selling for as much as I paid for them. For whatever GM was doing wrong in that time frame you could not go wrong with a 6 cyl Nova.
I agree their cars have improved but also I am positive they need to go further to change their operational business model. The UAW is at the top of the list because their work rules inhibit positive improvements. It begs to ask "Will you continue to shoot yourself in the foot and is your memory that bad??" to the part-owners?
You've got to consider a work force that is always vigilant of "what have you done for me lately" while whining "do not make any changes to the way I am doing things" but "continue to give me top pay" despite the reality of the marketplace. It has affected the product in the past and seems like it continues to play a factor.
The competition is getting really good and GM is still behind.
Regards,
OW
Can I interest you in a Freelander perhaps?
To their credit GM did put a lot of money into their Cadillac division in the late '90s, and after Obama fired Rick Wagoner it has been all uphill ... were the other automakers dumber or did they not have the deep pockets of the American taxpayer to prop them up?
It's very possible that the axle/brake assemblies are supplied as a sub-assembled unit to the assembly plant, and that supplier may or may not be unionized. For all I know, it may have come from an overseas, non-union plant.
My main issue is the fact that something of such major importance could make it all the way through to a completely assembled auto without anyone noticing the non-functioning brake assemblies.
I'm sure even the union employees recognize that an error like that can cost them jobs, so it's completely illogical for them to ignore it.
The fact that some here simply want to throw this problem into the "general recall bucket" makes zero sense to me as well. All recalls are not equal, and it's just that simple.
Instead of minimizing it, if I were GM's management, I would be out front, showing the car buying public GM was in no way going to tolerate this type of behavior. It's already in the public eye, so take the negative and turn it into a positive. Hire a dis-interested investigative team and make the findings, as well as the changes needed to avoid any such future issues public.
Do the exact opposite of what Toyota did...the exact opposite of what GM has been famous for doing for so many years.
The really sad part is that GM has made some decent gains in product. I'm looking to upsize from a CRV down the road and the Lambda's are at the top of my list. I've rented several and they drive as nice as any popular priced foreign vehicle. Unfortunately, fundamental quality screw ups off the assembly line like missing brake pads or improperly attached steering wheels can't help but make me hestitant that I'm going to get a poorly assembled and mediocre product if I go back to GM. I think I'm not alone. GM makes comfortable and roomy vehicles, but in the past too many were maintenance headaches which caused owners to flee and their market share to dive. That's why I think the CEO needs to personally step up quickly and communicate what went wrong here, who is responsible and how he is going to stop these kind of fundamental product deficiencies from coming off the line in the future.">link title
It's very possible that the axle/brake assemblies are supplied as a sub-assembled unit to the assembly plant, and that supplier may or may not be unionized. For all I know, it may have come from an overseas, non-union plant.
The new brake pad recall for the 2012 Chevrolet Sonic affects 4,296 vehicles sold in the United States while another 577 were sold in Canada, with all of the vehicles included in this recall built between June 2nd, 2011 and November 21st, 2011 at GM’s Orion Township Assembly Plant just north of Detroit.
The recall is pinned directly on GM. Period, The End.
Regards,
OW
My question is whether the axle/brake subassembly was manufactured by GM or a 3rd party vendor.
In the end, you're correct. The responsibility lies with GM. I never meant to suggest otherwise.
Mid-pack in the USA and not sold around the world? Gotta get real, GM.
Regards,
OW
2011 Best-Selling New and Used Car Models (through November)
Rank New Car Models Used Car Models
1 Ford F-150 Honda Accord
2 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 Ford F-150
3 Toyota Camry Toyota Camry
4 Nissan Altima Chevrolet Silverado 1500
5 Ford Escape Honda Civic
6 Honda Accord Toyota Corolla
7 Ford Fusion Nissan Altima
8 Chevrolet Cruze Chevrolet Impala
9 Toyota Corolla Dodge Ram Pickup 1500
10 Hyundai Sonata BMW 3 Series
Cruze beat Corolla and Civic for new sales.
Regards,
OW
Rank Make Average of Discount off MSRP*
1 Saab 14.33%
2 Chevrolet 13.87%
3 Dodge 13.87%
4 Ford 13.77%
5 Nissan 13.54%
6 Lincoln 13.50%
7 Chrysler 13.26%
8 Buick 12.61%
9 Infiniti 12.53%
10 GMC 12.15%
Industry 14.33%
*Includes incentives
Same "Old Story". What will that do to resale values?? Can they get off these drugs?
Auto Brands with Lowest Discount Percent
Rank Make Average of Discount off MSRP*
1 Fiat 0.45%
2 Scion 3.31%
3 Porsche 3.63%
4 smart 4.53%
5 MINI 5.44%
6 Audi 5.54%
7 Land Rover 5.64%
8 Volkswagen 5.96%
9 Subaru 6.84%
10 Hyundai 6.96%
Industry 11.60%
*Includes incentives
Regards,
OW