GM News, New Models and Market Share

uplanderguy

Hadn't we previously hashed out the logic behind the "Standard of the World" tagline ad nauseum, several months ago?

uplanderguy

Hey Conan rules, where on Earth do you see that GM won't honor warranties on cars built before the bankruptcy? I've had warranty work on 2005 and 2008 GM cars after the bankruptcy without the slightest hesitation on the part of the dealer. What a complete crock.

Sheesh, there's a lot of misinformation out there. Unfortunately, once someone puts it into print a lot of people consider it fact. I always try to label my opinions as opinions. Wish some others would.

uplanderguy

maple2, I get your comedic post here, though I'm not sure andres3 does! The poster you are mentioning (not andres3) is a regular Forrest Gump!

uplanderguy

I'm pro-GM, but I totally concede this is a GM problem, no matter where it originated. They own the problem...same as any other manufacturer with a recalled part.

imidazol97

The problem may be anomoloous in blame. The complete parts including the calipers loaded with pads are shipped in a container. The GM assembler picking the assembled part to place on the car did not realize the pad had slipped from the completed caliper and was on the bottom of the container. Someone taking the last assembled part did not notice the extra pad lying on the bottom. If they had noticed, the problem could have been stopped before that group of cars left the factory lot.

Now there is a retainer of some kind holding the pads in place during shipping in the container.

Whether the supplier is GM captive or a separate company, I do not know. Someone discussing this elsewhere thought the completed front wheel unit was complete with everything sans the tire.

This has been properly caught, properly publicized, and responsibility taken.

Personally, I can't imagine the brake pedal feel would be normal on a car with one pad missing. Someone should have caught it.

uplanderguy

On GM, Chevy had models Corsica and Baretta that had spark plug changing problems. To change some of them, engine mounts had to be disconnected and engine jacked up.

I owned two new Berettas and Corsicas...one a V6. This is the first time I've ever heard that, and I'd had spark plugs put in both during my ownership.

I think you're remembering the 1975 V8 Monza 2+2.

circlew

Hadn't we previously hashed out the logic behind the "Standard of the World" tagline ad nauseum, several months ago?

As soon as GM get's the message, the better. Caddy isn't even the Standard in the USA. When Caddy concedes and changes the tag-line, it''ll end.

Here's an idea: "Cadillac - Standard of the Future".

Regards,
OW

circlew

Thanks for that post. Very informative.

Regards,
OW

lemko

Heck, on the 1969 Mustang Boss 429, one had to remove the master cylinder to get at the last two spark plugs on the left bank of cylinders.

lemko

The "standard of the world" is a slogan that dates back to 1910 and is in reference to interchangeable parts. Way back in the day, no two parts were alike for most cars. Cadillac studied the firearms manufacturers of the time to learn how to craft interchangeable parts.

As far as I'm concerned, Cadillac was, is, and will always be The Standard of the World!

tlong

The "standard of the world" is a slogan that dates back to 1910 and is in reference to interchangeable parts. Way back in the day, no two parts were alike for most cars. Cadillac studied the firearms manufacturers of the time to learn how to craft interchangeable parts.

That's interesting.

Still, in today's world I don't think that's how it is interpreted. Perhaps they should revamp their slogan every 100 years or so?

I guess that's my complaint about current GM - they didn't do that much to make themselves look any different. No new company name, no new company slogan, no big changes to the existing divisions that survived.

They had a marketing opportunity to emphasize the rebirth, but it didn't happen.

fezo

I think you're remembering the 1975 V8 Monza 2+2.

Yes, I am sure that's exactly what he was talking about. I knew someone with the Olds version of ot and while he kept the car for years the #7 spark plug was never changed. Went to the crusher with the original plug.

uplanderguy

I think you're remembering the 1975 V8 Monza 2+2.

Yes, I am sure that's exactly what he was talking about. I knew someone with the Olds version of ot and while he kept the car for years the #7 spark plug was never changed. Went to the crusher with the original plug.

He also mentioned motor mounts on both sides of the engine. I won't guarantee it, but that's not my memory of the situation either...I believe it was only one side...still, that is bad serviceability! The same year Mustang V8 only required removing the battery to change spark plugs!

uplanderguy

As opposed to a Sonic with no brakes

I know you had the 'smiley face' after this, but as is so common on this board, isn't this a bit of hyperbole? I personally believe that as embarrassing as the Sonic recall rightly is (and I'm able to admit it), I feel with confidence not a single Sonic went out with "no brakes". The Nissan recalls were for dangerous goofs and affected multiples-more cars, but again...that's OK for a lot of people here. I'm sure this is a form of "Stockholm Syndrome"! (smiley face here)

kernick

As far as I'm concerned, Cadillac was, is, and will always be The Standard of the World!

And everyone's local high school football team (or insert other sport) is the best too! It's sort of genetic-issue we humans have - justifying our tribe-is-better-than-yours, regardless of the facts or opinions of unbiased observers.

Exactly what is Cadillac best at? As a whole I don't see it; nor individually I don't see it. They're not best in price, mpg, cost-of-ownership, performance, quality, amenities, warranty, or longetivity (I'd give that to Ford's Crown Vic platform). Cadillac is floundering, not much better than Lincoln.

uplanderguy

Cadillac is floundering, not much better than Lincoln

According to the chart above, Caddy has outsold Lincoln by 76% this year.

circlew

The Nissan recalls were for dangerous goofs and affected multiples-more cars, but again...that's OK for a lot of people here.

ALL DANGEROUS RECALLS ARE NOT OK. Just wanted you to note that.

I feel with confidence not a single Sonic went out with "no brakes".

Some Sonics DID go out without a brake pad, however.

The feds are saying that the 2012 Chevrolet Sonic is missing either the front outer brake pad or the front inner brake pad and in this case, the brake system will not only make some extra noise, but it will be obviously reduced.

Regards,
OW

circlew

Caddy has outsold Lincoln by 76% this year.

Caddy is the Lincoln Standard in the USA. Small world.

Regards,
OW

uplanderguy

I'm basically a bean-counter by trade, but in my world, beating Lincoln by 76% in sales is not exactly what the gentleman posted.

gagrice

GM yet to pay on $110-million Quebec loan

MONTREAL — It’s been nearly a decade since General Motors Corp. cranked out Chevrolet Camaros and Pontiac Firebirds at its Ste-Thérese assembly plant just north of Montreal. The factory has since been torn down to make way for a vast commercial complex called Faubourg Boisbriand.

Out with the muscle cars, in with McDonald’s and Moores. But a curious thing about the facility lingers like a ghost from a bygone era: An outstanding $110-million interest-free loan from the Quebec government to GM that the automaker has yet to pay a penny on.

http://business.financialpost.com/2011/12/31/gm-yet-to-pay-on-110-million-quebec- -loan/

conanrules

GM lawsuit
It's not a secret.

uplanderguy

Discussed here a hundred times before. This is unfortunate for the owners in the lawsuit, but no one has been able to determine if it is the same part number in the police cars as in the non-police versions. Typically a TSB is done when there's a high percentage of vehicles in the field with the problem. There's apparently a higher percentage of police units in the field with the problem than non-police units. But to say "GM doesn't honor warranties on cars built before the bankruptcy", as a blanket statement, is patently false. Anything that GM fixed as warranty before the bankruptcy, would be fixed after the bankruptcy as warranty.

Incidentally, a motorhead friend of mine owns an '08 Impala he bought new. He's mad about the bailout, but even he says his doesn't have the slightest indication of this problem.

lemko

If Cadillac had the same standard as Lincoln, I wouldn't have bought five of them. Lincoln hasn't had a decent vehicle in its lineup since they dumped the Town Car.

The one thing I have always loved about Cadillac is their styling. I find Cadillacs infinitely more attractive than any other car in any market in any price class.

uplanderguy

As a 'thrifty' guy, I'll probably never own a Cadillac, but I agree totally with you on the styling concept. Their styling is original and individualistic and doesn't look like any other car on the market. The same could probably be said of M-B, but I don't think the same could be said of the Japanese brands. Speaking of them...what's up with the "Joker smile" look on the front of some Acuras lately?

imidazol97

>loved about Cadillac is their styling. I find Cadillacs infinitely more attractive than any other car in any market in any price class.

STS in red pearl mettalic.

lemko

Is that your car? It's drop-dead gorgeous! I once had a 1994 DeVille finished in Carmine Red. Cadillac once had another nice red called Crimson Pearl.

lemko

A friend of mine who wanted an Acura was turned off by the awkward styling and is now considering either a LaCrosse or Regal.

imidazol97

>It's drop-dead gorgeous!

It's a little premium for what I want to spend for vehicles. But I love the color. I love the size as a luxury car with sport. An acquaintance/friend of ours has one a few years old in this color.

Our leSabre is the crimson pearl metallic with chrome wheels. At least I've got the color and our car is based on the STS of the previous generation.

lemko

I had a 2002 Cadillac Seville STS in White Diamond. I traded it for my current 2007 Cadillac DTS Performance.

stever

but no one has been able to determine if it is the same part number in the police cars as in the non-police versions.

That's alleged in the suit - "no material differences" in the spindle rods put in cop cars vs regular Impalas. (pdf file)

The kit part number for the recall is 19208347. Fleets with exported Impalas (i.e., Canada), have to order the rods separately. The OEM part numbers for that are 10329689 and 10329691, per the program bulletin. (also a pdf).

The kit costs about $80 more than buying the rods separately from GMPartsDirect and other places. Hm. Nothing found at eBay or RockAuto.

Looks like the shocks on the police package may be beefier, so why not the other suspension parts?

On the other hand, it's odd that both cops and consumers complained of the same rear tire wear.

Someone care to stoll down to their local Chevy dealer parts counter and ask?

uplanderguy

"No material differences" per the suit, versus "no differences". Interesting.

I tend to believe this is a thing that for whatever reason, they wouldn't have covered before the bankruptcy either. No matter our opinions on the matter, this does not mean "GM does not honor warranties on cars built before the bankruptcy".

circlew

Understood, you are correctly representing the lead over Lincoln.

Unfortunately for GM, beating Lincoln is hardly "Standard of the World" bragging rights.

Regards,
OW

circlew

Acura is reflecting what they are becoming! Same as Honda.

Toyota got a huge dose of "GM Disease" a few years back as well.

Regards,
OW

stever

Interesting, but it could just be a bet hedge in case one part number is 19208347 and one is 19208347-C.

I'm getting fuzzy on the issue, but part of GM's claim was that "design issues" didn't fall under warranty coverage. That seems to fall under hair splitting. Guess we'll have to wait and see how it all shakes out.

cadillacmike

But you only like audis - the best built cars in the world...

cadillacmike

Well it seems like Cadillacmike has stirred up the GM haters on this board.
How dare he profer the preposterous suggestion that he is a satisfied GM owner and his cars have been likeable and reliable.

I got 'em in a real frenzy this time.

And for the last time (well, probably not) CU was started by ralph nader, a liberal, GM hater of the first order of magnititude. And that's still the culture at CU.

cadillacmike

What get me on this is how any buyer who hit the brake the very first time didn't hear and feel the grinding of a missing pad. :confuse:

Of course after 2 or 3 stops the rotor and caliper are done for as well.

My guess is under 100, but it's still a black eye for GM when they don't need it.

cadillacmike

I mentioned this a week ago. that 1% rust started working on day 1.

cadillacmike

That's not only with GM products.

Just try to get anything off a 4 cyl compact or any transverse mounted mid or smaller car. On some of these i can't even slide a sheet of paper in.

Camaros & Firebirds were not easy to work on either, too small an engine compartment.

This is one primary reason i went back to RWD in all my cars.

cadillacmike

I don't consider that a big issue relative to not being able to stop due to missing brake pads. I would think most people can see the difference.

You WILL stop with missing brake pad, it just ruins the caliper and rotor very fast.

cadillacmike

As opposed to a Sonic with no brakes.

It's NOT no brakes and you know it.

cadillacmike

They won't stand behind warranties for vehicles sold under the old GM.

That is an outright false statement. In other words, you are lying.

tlong

A friend of mine who wanted an Acura was turned off by the awkward styling and is now considering either a LaCrosse or Regal.

I agree that Acuras are ugly. IMHO the Acrua TL went from being one of the most handsome sedans on the road to the ugliest in one refresh.

I didn't originally like the Caddy "art and science" styling but it has grown on me. It is certainly distinctive, and kudos to them for sticking with it long enough for it to become a brand signature. Now they just need to fix that "standard of the world" slogan.

cadillacmike

I'll bet 99% of you do not even know where the "The Standard of the World" came from.

tlong

You WILL stop with missing brake pad...

...eventually. Hopefully there's not other metal in the spot between where you would have stopped and where you eventually do stop. :P

fintail

Actually, many of us here do know it - the Dewar Cup of 1908, relating to parts standardization - at a time when most cars were still built piecemeal or in small batches. It's a catchy slogan, but it isn't really appropriate for 2012 where all cars have standardized parts, and the use of the term "standard" has different connotations.

cadillacmike

I suspect that the problem is somehow related to modified impalas. Lots of these were modified and you're not going to get warranty recourse on something that you messed with.

cadillacmike

Of course You know, as do a few others, but most of the rest have (or had) no clue. Cadillac won that trophy twice (as I'm sure you know!)

cadillacmike

If Cadillac had the same standard as Lincoln, I wouldn't have bought five of them. Lincoln hasn't had a decent vehicle in its lineup since they dumped the Town Car.

Only 5??? I'm sure you know the origins of the Liberty Aircraft Engine's manufacturer.
But you are correct, I never liked the recent town car looks, - the mid-late 90s was the last decent looking lincoln town car.

fintail

And Cadillac was indeed the standard of the world then - really, American cars were, as they were much more durable and easier to repair than European makes. A 1912 Cadillac with electric accessories was the most advanced car on the planet. That standard lasted for many decades, and might even be true today - but now people want more than easy to fix. I think to the average punter, "standard of the world" means "best in the world", and I can't say I buy that today.