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2009 Acura TSX



  • upstatedocupstatedoc Posts: 710
    Just got my official e-mail from of the line '09 TSX w/ tech package:

    $32,700 incl. destination.

    '08 TL anyone? :sick:
  • nj2pa2ncnj2pa2nc Posts: 813
    I got to test drive a 09 basque red pearl/ebony with tech package and 6MT TSX today. It was better than I thought it would be. I love the nav with the back-up camera, etc. I might buy one at the end of this year or wait until next spring. I still love my 06 Milano red-wish they had that color.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    Well, I also agree with your points, with caveats. The '08 Accord has grown too large for my needs and preference too, even though it's not much bigger than the '03-'07 generation. Just because the new Accord is labeled "full size" doesn't mean that it's grown all that much. The previous generation was probably at the high end of "intermediate or mid size" while the '08 is at the small end of full size.
    In the meantime, the new TSX has also grown, especially in width, so the size differential between the TSX and Accord remains approximately the same.

    Your point that comparisons between near luxury and less prestigious brands aren't exclusive to Acura and Honda makes perfect sense. I'm sure it's something that many shoppers wrestle with. However, Nissan/Infiniti deflated the need for such comparisons by converting the entire Infiniti brand to rear wheel drive. I think this, or the Toyota/Lexus model, is the example that Acura should follow. With the exception of the Camry based ES, Lexus also differentiated its Lexus luxury division from its mainstream Toyota brand. Acura could leave the TSX as its only front wheel drive model.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    all the most successful luxury brands make their most car sales from their smallest models, ALL of which are smaller than TSX (325i, IS, C-class, etc). Acura could sell a smaller more nimble model. I think the main problem with the RSX (in Honda's mind) was that it was too cheap to be taken seriously. I was thinking of reintroducing a proper $25-27K model below the TL.

    As for the TSX itself, I actually almost bought this car back in 2004 for $26K, and in 2004, for $26K, the TSX was a competitive car. In 2008, at $29K and with the same powertrain, it is falling behind, that's all I'm saying.

    The 2010 diesel will boost sales though, I have no doubt. And I bet that when the 2010 cars finally get here, that other optional engine will be the RDX turbo, not a 6-cylinder. Any takers?!... :-P

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    If you assume the annual inflation rate between '04 and '08 was 3%, then $26,000 back then is the equivalent of $29,263 today (four years later). Therefore, if the '04 TSX was a "competitive car" in '04, one could argue that the '09 TSX remains competitive, especially if, (a) one considers the '09 to be at least a little improved overall compared with the '04, and, (b) the '09 is five models years newer than the '04, which is a positive factor in terms of depreciation. Of course, these considerations have to be weighed against the progress that competing models - the IBM 325, Lexus IS, Volvo S60, Audi A-4, Saab 9-2 2.0 turbo - have made. While one's conclusion comes down to a value judgement, I think one can argue that the '09 TSX in '08 remains about as good a value as the '04 was in its day. Part of my thinking is that, like the TSX, the competing models haven't made dramatic strides over the past four years either.

    Of course, today you could also cross shop a Pontiac G-8 V6 against the TSX, and while the G-8 is even larger than the TSX, and its reliability might not be up to Acura standards, it may be a better near luxury value.
  • biker4biker4 Posts: 746
    If the Honda statements about the launch of Acura in Europe are to be believed the entire lineup will go RWD by 2015, The TSX can't stay FWD if Acura plans to sell it in Europe - badge engineering won't work there - they'd need something very different from the EuroAccord. Like Lexus, Acura could leave the TL to compete with the ES while having a compact entry level (future TSX), mid size (future RL) and full size (??? start watching the trademark submissions for names from Honda) and the NSX (to compete with LF-A). Everything besides the TL would be based on some RWD platform.

    Hosts, since the 09 TSX is officially out this should be moved from future vehicles to the TSX threads.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    "If you assume the annual inflation rate between '04 and '08 was 3%, then $26,000 back then is the equivalent of $29,263 today"

    Yeah, but that's not the way it works with cars, particularly "all new" models introduced during a recession. Take any model of car and track its base price backwards in time. They don't generally rise at the rate of inflation.

    Example: VW Passat turbo (base engine). List in 2002 was $23,375. Base price today for the '08 is $23,990 according to Edmunds.

    Example: 2002 Acura TL, list $29,360. The 2008 Acura TL, a car that I think we can all agree was COMPLETELY remade and enormously improved for MY 2004, lists at $33,725, a barely 2% increase per year.

    Example: BMW 3-series. In 2002 the base model was the 325i, listing at $32,465. The 2008 base model is the 328i, listing at $32,400. Makes the 328i look like a bargain today, huh?!

    My point is, car prices do not rise at the same rate as inflation.

    And yes, as you stated, the TSX has to "be weighed against the progress that competing models - the IBM 325, Lexus IS, Volvo S60, Audi A-4, Saab 9-2 2.0 turbo - have made."

    It is in this area that I find it coming up short. I have now driven it (I am on my dealer's listserve as I used to own an Acura, so I was invited to come drive it now that dealers have it in stock) and find it to be not notably improved from the '04 I drove before, in terms of driving dynamics and performance. Yes, there is more techno wizardry in the cockpit, but in the end those are just gizmos. I like to drive for driving's sake.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    biker4: Interesting information about future Acuras, biker4. I had read something similar to what you wrote recently, but didn't have confidence in my source. Conversion to RWD for most of its models makes perfect sense for Acura, though, if they're serious about competing with the top tier luxury brands in world markets.

    If Acura is going to retain one FWD model, shouldn't that be the TSX, rather than the TL? The tradeoffs favoring FWD tend to be greatest in smaller, four cylinder cars than larger sixes, just as the the greatest relative advantages of RWD are in high torque V8s, V10s, and V12 applications.

    nippononly: "...the TSX has to "be weighed against the progress that competing models - the IBM 325..."

    You meant BMW, of course.

    "... there is more techno wizardry in the cockpit, but in the end those are just gizmos. I like to drive for driving's sake."

    I agree 100%. Telematics generally doesn't excite me much, although I appreciate certain features, such as traction control, anti-lock brakes, and electronic stability control. These are wonderful features. I can't warm up to features such as lane departure alerts or controls, or automatic parking. Beeps, vibrations and other alerts would be especially annoying to me. I may exclude certain luxury models from consideration in the future, because they tend to be crammed with telematic features that have a negative value for me.
  • gdoctsx1gdoctsx1 Posts: 60
    I just drove a white 2009 TSX (auto) with the Navi. I can feel that the car pulls somewhat better up to 4000 RPM, however what's odd is that the iV-TEC does not open up very much at 6000 or so RPM. Infact, the engine noise is a lot louder and has a "thinner" sound. Very odd. Hated the sound of the engine compared to my 06 TSX. Very disappointed with the fact that you can't feel anything when the v-tec opens up. In the 06 there is a noticble pull to the engine around 6000rpm which is totally gone in the car I drove. The plastic around the center column looks rather cheap and I don't like the fact that only paddle shifters are available in the auto. I prefer the tiptronic flexibility. I can live with the looks of the car and the stereo, rear camera, xm radio and the mp3 stuff....however, the engine noise is a big downer for me along with no vtec pull at 6000rpm. I'll stick with my 06
  • upstatedocupstatedoc Posts: 710
    See templeofvtec's dyno test, that should explain the different feeling of the '09's engine. :shades:

    p.s. I'm ending all my posts with "shades" in honor of the sunniest stretch of weather we've had here I think ever. :shades:
  • gdoctsx1gdoctsx1 Posts: 60
    The difference when I drove my 06 (mine has only about 12,000miles on it) and the 09 was minimal in power difference. The sound of the motor in the previous generation to me sounds way better. Not sure why the dampening is so poor on the new car? Albeit when the v-tec opens on the 06 it's very short lived, I'd take that thrust over the slight change in torque curve on the new one. What makes the TSX fun for me was is that thrust at 6000 and the mid range pull to me is good. The dash materials have some high points (the guages) and some low points (the silver plastic console). It's slightly better inside than the monstrosity dash in the new Accord. First time I've seen honda release a car with a glove box and center console so poorly fitted. I find the RDX has a similar feel to the TSX inside, but just overall much better materials (less plastic moldings everywhere). I'm going to keep the 06 TSX for another couple years, then probably look at the new TL, IS250awd, or G35. I like the backend of the new TSX, but thus far don't have much positive to say about it. I've owned about 7 Honda products, but the new Acura direction and certainly the new Accord have turned me right off the brand. Hope the TL wins me back!
  • goosegoose Posts: 77
    "><img src="Just visited the local Acura dealer in Tucson. My initial TSX impression was, "Wow its big". Looked at the sticker and saw 100% Japan. The price was $29K. I had some window tint add on but still under $30K. I then went to the Honda dealer (next door) and saw the Accord. My overall impression is the Accord looks stately and a EX will look good in any drive way. If you need the status then the TSX is good and your paying for 100% Japan made (at this time). I'm in my early 40s and I don't like the size of either car. Unfortunately there isn't an auto in the Honda/Acura line that fits my desire for fuel/size/comfort. The Accord coupe has an ugly rear that looks like a chopped Accord. I don't want a Lexus/Infinite/BMW because of the price. The only brand that currently gets any interest from me is the VW GLI/R32 which are 100% German. However, VW has a reliability issue so I"m left with the feeling that my current car will have to do. A 2006 Civic EX Coupe with Honda accesory 17" wheels." <img src=C:\Users\Gus\Desktop\IMG_0426_2.jpg"
  • biker4biker4 Posts: 746
    On the surface it might make sense to keep the TSX FWD but there's a couple of reasons I don't think it will happen. First the TL is so established, like the ES was for Lexus, they can't kill its formula. Unlike now where they basically have 3 mid sized sedans, if/when they switch to RWD, there'll be much bigger difference in sizes. So the TSX would actually shrink to not only make it different from the RL in the US but also different from the EuroAccord in other markets. Because in other markets badge engineering doesn't work the TSX has to be RWD to differentiate it from Honda offerings.
  • ogbzaogbza Posts: 7
    i just spoke with a dealer who was trying to talk me out of leasing an 08 TL-S and instead wait for the 09 TL. This was partly due to the fact that he didn't have what i wanted in stock, but he seemed generally interested in giving me good advice.

    Anyway, when i asked him to speculate on the 09 TL lease deals he mentioned that the 36 month residual on the new TSX was somewhere in the 70%'s. He told me that acura has implied that this "standard" will apply to the new TL as well. Has anyone else heard anything like this? That is incredibly high and would make for great lease deals, no?
  • I've compared pictures of new TSX and new Euro-Accord interior. Essentially they both got same interior. Euro-Accord got red emergency stop lights button (probably because of Euro safety requirements) and silver panel on the sterring wheel under audio/cruise control buttons (it is black on TSX).

    I can only speculate on the difference in quality of materials, but folks in european forums talk about many improvements in this area. So I would guess Honda decided to save money and do not provide upgraded interior for TSX any more. In previous generation the interior was pretty different in TSX -- Euro Accord had interior similar to US Accord in terms of the layout and the quality.

    That would explain why some people mentioned relatively "cheap" plastic on the dashboard.

    Interestingly enough the silver panel on steering wheel looks better. I have no clue why Honda decided to swap this detail between Euro and US model (old Euro Accord had it in black).

    Still have a few thousand miles before getting my car to the service. Will take a look then. So far reading all the information I doubt I will ever trade my Black-on-black 2005 MT6 Navi for new one.
  • curvecurve Posts: 20
    I bought my new '05 TSX w/ nav, auto, 3 years ago this month and is by far the best car I ever drove, and fun! Before that I had a '98 Integra (w/ stick) bought in '00. After the new '09 TSX came out I figured it would inevitably push my older TSX generation to the back of the line. However after reading a couple of articles and the forum here it appears our generation car is still more fun to drive than the new one. Yes it looks fresher, more modern etc. but at the end of the day it's the feel of it that counts. I think our model is going to garnish that cult factor once word goes Tiptronic? that's half the fun when passing other drivers in the congested streets of Boston and Highways! It was a great compromise to let go of standard shift as even my soccer legs were tired of 1st gear - neutral - 1st gear driving in my area.
    By the way, my friend bought a '05 BMW 325 a couple months before my purchase and regreted it (he had test drove the TL and TSX too) within a year. I calculated $6k difference for the badge (ok, and better driving)

    no regrets here!
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    I looiked at and sat in the '09 TSX at the Acura dealer, but didn't test drive it. The '09 looks better from the side and from the back, in my opinion, than the previous generation TSX. The front doesn't look as good, and while I'm not a fan of the new grille, I could live with it. The interior of the new model looks better, but I miss the faux wood grain applications that came with some color combinations, and doesn't in the '09. All '09s come with the brushed metal look. It's contemporary, but I prefer the older wood grain look.

    The biggest weakness of the interior is the modest rear seat leg room. It's rather tight back there, unless the front passengers put their seats up quite a bit.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    I should add that the wheelbase and overall length of the '09 TSX are 1 1/2 inches longer and 2 inches longer, respectively, than those of the '08 TSX. Also, the rear seat leg room of the TSX is slightly less than that of the Honda Civic (34.3 inches vs. 34.6 inches) and 1.8 inches less than the '08 Ford Focus 4 door. Further, the BMW 3-Series sedan provides .3 inches more leg room, despite being RWD and 8 inches shorter overall than the '09 TSX. These comparisons were made using Edmund's New Car Comparison Specs.

    Keep these comparisons in mind if you should try the back seat of the new TSX, and see if you don't agree that, given the increased size of the car, Acura should have provided rear seat passengers with greater leg room. The considerable increase in width of the new model doesn't compensate for the lack of more back seat legroom. It's disappointing.
  • dad23dad23 Posts: 432
    I got to drive an 09 today during lunch, it was palladium metallic, auto with navi. Nice car, felt a little bigger than my 07 but not much, paddle shifters were nice but not as fun as the sportshift in my opinion, would have to get used to the squirrly steering, larger "rear end" but even more so as others have pointed out, the grill. It just looks too big for the car. It was nice, but nothing that would make me want to trade from my 07 which I think looks more sleek and sporty. My 2 cents :shades:
  • rv65rv65 Posts: 1,076
    There will be no turbo this time. A v6 is going to be the optional engine. Should be around 35k with tech package maybe more. Perhaps there will be no non tech package model like the 07-08 TL type-S. Diesel is all but confirmed for next year. The spyshots were actually that model.
  • bvdj84bvdj84 Posts: 1,724
    Ya, I think the front looks a bit different, and perhaps it all comes down to that grill, but I feel like Acura is trying to look futuristic, so keeping an open mind about it helps with understand where the design came from. I think if they tamed down the wing in the grill that holds the Acura logo it would look a bit better. Perhaps it is looking too much like other cars. I love the interior though, but it is quite busy when compared to the older TSX. That is the one thing I loved about the previous gen models of Accords and TSX, that they kept the interior simple and classy. But, that said, I still love the interior of this car! Looks like it really hugs the driver. Even with the grill being "Different", I would totally get one of these, Looks Awesome! I think it will grow on us all. But, worth it, I think the pricing is a bit too high, when compared to other cars that offer similar packages, but in my opinion, Honda/Acura is truly a Winner at creating amazing cars, and you simply cannot go wrong! Making the premium to get one these models totally worth it! I lease my cars, so in about 2-3yrs, I will have this on my list, along with the Honda line up! I am going to test drive one soon!
  • hp6130hp6130 Posts: 49
    On Tuesday of this week I was at the local Acura/Honda dealer (Reading, Pa.) to have the cracked fog lite repaired on my daughter's 08 TSX. I want to thank some of the people on this forum for helping us get it repaired one time under warranty as a good faith gesture. Two people suggested I try this, and it worked. The bill would have been close to $200. Thanks again. Now that we know how easy they crack, I plan on installing rockblocker on them. While I waited for the car, I asked Randy (salesman who sold her the TSX) how the new one's were selling. He said they sold about 6 of them already and they are selling close to MSRP. I knew he wasn't BS'ING me because she test drove a new 09 on 4/24. The cars just came in and they had about 10 09's in stock, they also had about 12 08's left. Believe it or not, she had to wait for the car to come back from a test drive, and after she was done, there was somebody waiting for her to get back. Some recession, people waiting in line to drive a $32,000 car. The car she took out, was dedicated as a demo by Acura on the window sticker. That is something I never saw before. Before her car was finished, I think I counted 4 09's and 3 08's left. Randy said they really blew out the 08's, I can understand that, but the 09's must really be selling also.
  • trustworthytrustworthy Posts: 10
    I am seriously considering buying a 2009 TSX with Nav. I have spoken to two dealers and they each want full MSRP, which I am unwilling to pay. Any predictions when the price will drop and by how much? Anyone buy one so far for under MSRP?
  • jfooljfool Posts: 15
    I got an internet quotes from a Northeast dealer:

    Internet Price:

    2009 TSX $28,333 incl. destination
    2009 TSX w/Navigation $31,333 incl. destination

    Hope it helps...

    (prediction: june-july, 2008: 2009 TSX at invoice)
  • trustworthytrustworthy Posts: 10
    Thank you jfool. That does help. The dealers in the DC area are greedy in my opinion. I now own a Mercedes and if they sold me a car they would gain a new customer but they are intent on full sticker price at a time when the car business is very weak. Maybe what I need is a little patience.

    The one thing I don't like about Acura is that the dealerships push more for sale than Mercedes dealers do. Walking in to Rosenthal Acura in Gaithersburg, MD is like walking into a cage with hungry animals who now see fresh meat. I guess this works for them or they wouldn't do it. But I don't like it.
  • patti6patti6 Posts: 2
    I just bought a 2009 with Nav. yesterday and paid sticker. Usually this dealer discounts their cars at the outset -- it's no haggle car buying, and I have always found them to be lower than surrounding dealers (I've bought three cars from them and always searched far and wide for a better price before committing and not found a better deal). I asked him why no discount this time, and he said that the car is so new and it's hard to get a good supply of them in yet, so they are selling at sticker. If I could have been patient and waited a few months when there are more available, I probably would have paid a little less. However, my Honda SUV was rapidly declining in trade-in value because the new model year is about to come out and there is a body style change; plus SUVs are not holding their value due to the gas prices. I have to say I have never been more excited about a car -- it was my Mother's Day present to myself. I am amazed by all the features and how well it drives.
  • trustworthytrustworthy Posts: 10
    Enjoy your new car! It's a great car; happy Mother's Day!! Waiting would have meant you would get less for your SUV. Drive it in good health.
  • patti6patti6 Posts: 2
    Thanks, trustworthy! Good luck in your search!
  • rv65rv65 Posts: 1,076
    Congrats on the new car purchase. Have a happy mothers day!
  • biker4biker4 Posts: 746
    I don't think prices will drop that fast - by the end of the year, maybe, but not July. Heck, the cash back on 08s is on till 7/7.
This discussion has been closed.