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2009 Acura TSX

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Comments

  • p72weilp72weil Posts: 1
    I just saw the photos of the 09 TSX and I must say I'm disappointed with the body style. The concept car's body style looked great and would brought some excitement to the Acura line up, but its not to be. As of how the first generation car is the better looking of the two. It also would had been nice if Acura could have added a little more guts to the engine, especially with low range torque. Hey Honda why are you afraid of turbo charging you have one in the RDX. Anyway, I guest I will hang on to my 04 a little bit longer and wait to see what will happen with the new TL.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    And the cheapest version will cost a whopping $29,000!! That's a lot of dough.

    Legacy turbo anyone? How about a well-outfitted Passat for the same price, or a very swish Jetta GLI for LESS money? Or a Volvo with the turbo? Or go another $2000 for a base model C300 or IS300 and get RWD?

    All would make very compelling alternatives to the TSX, and by comparison would make the TSX powertrain seem to be on the weakish side.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    Yeah, my perception of the '09 TSX is that good enough isn't good enough. We've come to expect better from Acura. Maybe adding a turbo, without raising the price, would add sufficient value to make it more compelling in the marketplace. Another disappointment is that although the car is bigger and heavier, rear seat legroom is about the same as the current generation TSX. Between the '09 TSX and the 4 cylinder Accord EX-L I'd choose the Accord and save the difference, even though the Accord is larger than I'd like on the outside.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    Yeah, if it came with the RDX turbo for $29K, it would be a zinger of a proposition - that would change the value equation entirely.

    As it is I cheer them for raising fuel economy (although it didn't go up much) at the expense of power, but I think the price is too high now. When this car debuted under $27K, I thought it was just about at the limit of its potential price range. Since then the price has crept up and up without any substantial improvements, and the redo seems like more of the same. Very mild.

    I would rather see an 8/10-scale TSX in the lineup, with the engine it has now and 8/10 the weight, starting at around $25K without NAV. Let the TL take over the mid-sedan slot in the Acura lineup.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • indydriverindydriver Posts: 620
    At one time, I was seriously considering the TSX. Nice car, but seriously underpowered. That was really the car's only serious shortcoming and Honda has failed to address it with this new model. It is really too bad. With their expertise in high revving, high hp fours (i.e., motorcycles), they could easily build a 250 hp naturally aspirated zinger. Hell, the 2000 has 240 hp, right?
  • luvster1luvster1 Posts: 1
    It reminds of the new Saturn in front grille
    and with the old Camry lights in back
    on trunk area yet of course not the same car.
    I like the interrior and longer size as well.
    I like the color selection better, saw it at a dealership.
    One of the new colors is a deep burgandy color. Funny I always liked the green
    TSX with Ivory leather but hardly saw them on the roads.
    Always see the gray, red, sliver or white the most.
    I guess I'll wait another year.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    And when you consider that this same 2.4 is making 190 hp in the new Accord, 10 extra horses in the new TSX isn't exactly overwhelming, is it?

    You are right, they could apply a little Honda magic to this thing and pull at LEAST the 240 hp the S2000 has. That would be fun. I am all for increasing fuel economy, but since it is all but certain that there will be a diesel-powered TSX within a year or two, that could be the high-FE model, leaving the NA gas to be something a bit more special.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • biker4biker4 Posts: 746
    You can bet that when the diesel is offered the gas version will get a HP bump. For 09 Honda will milk the market with a new platform then later provide new powertrains to keep sales going - the BMW way of rolling out models.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    Yeah sure, but for now what do they have? A new model with an ugly schnozz, with about the same fuel economy as a 328i (or even 128i for folks that don't mind 2 doors instead of four), a car which has RWD and 20% more power for maybe $5000 more.

    And at the other end of the spectrum, they are being undercut in price (in some cases significantly) by FWD and AWD models like the VWs, Saabs, Volvos, and you-name-it, which also have the same fuel economy and more power.

    I hope one day Honda puts some new lightweight, high-revving cars in the Acura lineup. And by that I mean models BESIDES the new NSX!

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • Anyone knows what date will the 09 TSX hit showroom?
  • rv65rv65 Posts: 1,076
    Late april to early may.
  • biker4biker4 Posts: 746
    Official launch is supposed to be 4/24 - actual dealer supply will vary.
  • relerelrelerel Posts: 2
    Ok, as a TSX owner I have been waiting for this day. I just finished driving the 09 TSX and I have to admit the power surprised me a little. I would say the acceleration is better. I think the steering is going to be hard to get used to if that was what you liked about the previous TSX. The electronic steer in it is kind of awkward and loose in feel. For those who say the car is not much bigger than before you are sadly mistaken. This car is about as big as a TL and probably more comfortable than both the previous TSX and the TL. There are a lot of cool new gadgets like blue tooth music where you can play your music from your phone through the car. The usb port is also very nice but does not work with all mp3 players or for that matter all ipods. The auxilary jack is still there so you do not have to worry about the upgrade on mp3 players if you still have your old cord. The navigation system has some cool new features for Acura like Real Time Weather which will show you real radar across the country if you wan't. I did enjoy the upgraded sound system which sounded a lot better than the TL's only because you get a deeper fuller base throughout the car. The one thing I did not like is that you only receive a single cd on the base TSX. I felt this was cheap of Acura. The styling is a lot nicer on the outside and you must see it in person to appreciate it because the Pics do not show it off good. The handling is good although it did seem the VSA was a little more intrusive this time around. Overall I believe the people will really enjoy this car and appreciate more of what it brings than what it doesn't. The TSX still offers a lot more than anything in it's class feature wise and at the lower price point. We tested the car against the IS 250, Audi A4 2.0t, and the 328i. the only car the TSX beat all around was the Audi. Better handling, acceleration, overall quality. The Lexus IS 250 was about the same acceleration and a nicer fit and finish inside but there is no space in this car for tall people or a group of friends unless they are all sixth graders. I would still give the TSX the advantage by far over the IS 250. The BMW has speed and handling but one of the roughest rides you could ever expect. It is aslo very small and cramped and the price point is outrageous for what you get. Nothing in a base car. The BMW has beat the TSX in speed and handling but that is it. The TSX is much nicer, more reliable,a lot bigger, better drive and comfort, and a lot less with a lot more room. Did I forget to mention it had a lot more space. !!!! At a fraction of the price. With a lot more standard equipment. !!!!!!!!!!!! ;):) :shades:
  • relerelrelerel Posts: 2
    Everyone says that Acura has not put enough power into their car and I feel the same way but lets take a look at something. Someone said that you can get a 328i for 5K more and it is a faster car. :confuse: If I am paying 5K more for this car then I will get a TL and still have more options and better reliability, more space ....
    Let's say that Acura did come out with a higher horsepower higher torque TSX and charged you 5K more for it then you would be crying about how Acura can justify their price. They don't have to. They Already have. Lets take a look at this. The Audi A4 2.0T cost's more with less equipment and is is slug off the line. (you think Acura's car is bad try this one.). The Lexus IS 250 cost's more with less equipment is a 6 cylinder that the 4 cylinder TSX can keep up with. :confuse: The BMW is so over priced that you could have a TL-S for less than their car and have real leather!!!! So tell me how Acura is not doing the right thing. They give you a car that competes in this segment very well and at a lower price point. Now for those who say Volvo and VW are doing much better, if you like a Ford then yes go get a Volvo and enjoy the drastic drop in resale after you get it because they are not selling at the price they wan't so they put the incentives on them to move them out. VW has had so many mechanical probs with their cars that I would not touch one if I was paid to drive it and they are small and the ride is rough. I think Acura has done a great job and on April 24th you can go find out for yourself as this is the first of a long line of new cars to come from Acura. Acura has finally seen the direction they need to take and are going to become the top player in the luxury market within the next five to seven years I predict. If you only kmew what was coming.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    "Let's say that Acura did come out with a higher horsepower higher torque TSX and charged you 5K more for it then you would be crying about how Acura can justify their price"

    No I wouldn't, it's called the TL, a fairly popular model as far as I know! :-)

    Used to be, Honda/Acura was about the drive, now it seems to be about the gadgets and the high resale.

    Who wanted a bigger TSX? Isn't there already a TL in the lineup?

    And I root for Acura as much as anyone and more than many, but this?...

    "Acura has finally seen the direction they need to take and are going to become the top player in the luxury market within the next five to seven years"

    ...has no chance of happening.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    I think Acura's chances of breaking into the top tier would be greatly improved if they'd convert their cars to RWD. SH-AWD isn't a substitute for RWD architecture, since it has little value, or negative value in warm weather regions.

    I think Nissan/Infiniti have the right strategy, which is largely why Infiniti is making inroads against the German high end brands, while Acura isn't.

    The TL is arguably the best (lower end) luxury FWD car on the market, but it could be THE best if it were RWD, in my opinion, by combining 3-Series driving dynamics and Acura reliability.

    Insofar as the '09 TSX is concerned, I agree with nippononly. I'd rather have a Civic EX-L, and save the difference.
  • rascal99rascal99 Posts: 54
    Good write up. Thanks! Personally I am more interested in how this car performs, since usable torque is the achilis heal of the last TSX. Three years ago I choose an Audi 2.0T over the TSX based on usable power, road feel, steering feedback, fuel mileage, comfort, etc. I just felt I would constantly have to drive the TSX like I stole it to get any response out of the drivetrain. The new model may appeal to the masses that appreciate all the electronics and want a spacious and heavier ride. I will have to wait and see when I drive the new one. Although I feel when I benchmark this car againt the upcoming A4 I will reach the same conclusion. The A4 will trump it in just about every regard with possibly the exception of reliability and resale value, and the German competition is closing the gap there.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    "I'd rather have a Civic EX-L, and save the difference."

    No kidding! In fact a Civic SI-L, if it were available with the Acura badge, would be the best thing Acura could do for the TSX right now. Goose the interior a little, give it NAV and a super-duper stereo system and all these gadgets people apparently crave, and price it at $27K. It would be a much better addition to the lineup than the '09 TSX is at $29K, and it wouldn't crowd the TL either.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    "a Civic SI-L, if it were available with the Acura badge, would be the best thing Acura could do for the TSX right now."

    I agree with you, for the reasons you mention. I mentioned the EX-L Acura quivalent because it suits my particular needs better than the SI-L, but I believe the SI badged car would be a better fit for Acura, strategically. The major thing that would be lacking, that the TSX has, is the double wishbone suspension. It would be nice if that could be incorporated in the Acura version of the model we propose, since it would positively differentiate the Acura from the Honda. I sense, though, that it would be too difficult and expensive to modify the Civic to incorporate this feature.

    Oh well, since I don't crave the presitge of the Acura name, I could be perfectly happy with a Civic. Incidentally, one of our cars is a '99 TL, which has been a delight to own. My wife and I felt it was worth the extra cost over the Accord EX-L, but that may not apply today.
  • mf15mf15 Posts: 158
    Not sure how important it really is but where is the HD radio.
    Hopefully the new Tl will have HD, BMW has it,
    Old Mike
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    "My wife and I felt it was worth the extra cost over the Accord EX-L, but that may not apply today."

    Oh, I think it most certainly does. The new Accord is a big lumbering beast. The TL is not my favorite car in the world, but it is limber and sporty compared to the new Accord V-6, which is a large car indeed.

    The Civic SI, of course, is for all intents and purposes a 4-door version of the last RSX-S we got (I forget - did the RSX have rear struts or 'bones?). For them to put it in the lineup today as the new TSX would be to admit that their drive "upmarket" didn't work out as planned, but the '09 TSX is a very weak alternative, and I think at $29K it will continue the sales slide for that model.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    The RSX didn't feature the double wishbone suspension.

    It'll be interesting to learn about the '09 TL, even though it'll be larger than I'd like it to be. I imagine it'll have cylinder deactivation, but the '08 Accord V6 with that feature has gotten mixed reviews.

    I've read that the '09 TL will be offered with FWD and SH-AWD, but it's unclear to me whether the SH-AWD will be an option, or be part of an "S" version. I also don't know whether the TL will have a more powerful version of the Accord 3.5 V6, or the 3.7 V6 of the RL. Maybe the FWD TL will have the 3.5, while the 3.7 comes with the SH-AWD. Have you heard or read anything about these possibilities?
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    Haven't seen much info on the '09 TL, but I haven't been looking. It would be a mistake for them to make it as large as the new Accord. My hope is they will chop a few inches out of the length and wheelbase before they call it the TL.

    I'm not sure that I agree that it will probably have cylinder deactivation. Even the 6-4-3 that Honda is using now doesn't provide a huge gas savings, and "luxury car" buyers are supposed to care less about those costs anyway, right? Also, it's possible that the TL is also slated for eventual use of the new Honda diesel 6-cylinder, which could be the fuel-saver option in future for that model.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • biker4biker4 Posts: 746
    An Acurafied Civic already exists in Canada, it's called the EL. It'll never make it to the US. The TSX is the lowest level car Acura will sell in the US and the 09 version will be the last Acura for under $30K. Sales by the end of the year should be a good indicator of the success/failure of the new model. Any sales level less than the previous model may indicate trouble.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    Acura would have some easy remedies for slow sales of the TSX. First, since the '09 is a totally new model, it shouldn't do too badly the first year, but we'll wait and see. For 2010 there will be the diesel option, which should provide some incremental sales. If that doesn't do it, Acura could swap the turbo motor from the RDX for the NA engine, at no additional charge, for 2011. For 2012 they could refresh the body and, maybe, the interior. Then for 2013, the last year for this generation, they could offer some great lease deals to move the iron. Although I'm disappointed in the '09 TSX, it'll probably sell okay.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    I disagree - they call it all-new, but they have BARELY UPDATED IT AT ALL! Sales of the TSX were down like 20% last year, and with the weakness of this update, it seems unlikely that sales will rise much, if at all this year. I would say they will be lucky if it matches CY 2007 sales.

    Just because they call it a $30K car doesn't MAKE IT a $30K car. If Acura wants to start its lineup at $30K, then they need to design some models that earn that price, and are NOT based heavily on their FWD Hondas.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • biker4biker4 Posts: 746
    I guess you'd say the same thing about the G35. You fault Honda for only tweaking a design that has worked? Honda has always been about making things just bland enough to sell. What did you expect some Bangalized design that would turn off half the potential buyers? Feature wise it has all the same ones the rest of the cars in its category have save the platform - which few people care about. I didn't know a certain thing made a car worth $30K - what would that be? By this logic the TL shouldn't be a 30K car either cause it's just an Acurafied USDM Accord. Or an A4 is not a 30K car cause it's just Audified VW based on a FWD platform.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    "with the weakness of this update, it seems unlikely that sales will rise much, if at all this year."

    If your prediction proves to be correct, nippononly, it'll be interesting to see what Acura does to reverse the sales decline for the remainder of this generation TSX. Any guesses, beyond the addition of the diesel option next year?
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    Oh, I'm sure they are planning just what you mentioned - plugging in the RDX turbo and offering a diesel too. I think they are hoping they can coast to a sales increase this year just by saying it is all-new, but my dealer still has leftover '07s and a PILE of '08s he can't sell. Selling the '09 while holding the line on price is going to be impossible.

    So Honda is going to need to come in with those other engines much more quickly than they expected to. Right now, the stand-out weakness of the '09 TSX is its engine. After that comes its heavy frontward weight bias caused by its wrong-wheel-drive design, and its overall heavyish weight. It's also in an awkward part of the spectrum to be in right now: under $30K, near-lux. The folks with the big money don't care about gas prices, etc, and will go on buying their $40K BMWs but the ones in this price range are downsizing, downpricing, and seeking better fuel economy.

    If they had gone a different direction with the new TSX and let TL do the job of their midsize model, they would have had a shot at more sales, I think. Of all the luxury and near-lux brands, Acura's smallest sedan is the largest and least powerful, not usually a good combination (the exception is Volvo, with the base S40, but that is also a much cheaper car - compare the S60 to get a same-priced car, and now you have a turbo engine with more power and much more torque than TSX, available over a huge range of rpm due to the nature of the turbo)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • My earlier cars were 1983 Honda Accord 5-speed manual and 1990 Acura Integra GS 5-speed manual. People have always told me resale values of manual transmission cars are lower because many people don't know how to drive them.

    I did have some trouble finding a buyer for the Accord in 1990. In Dec 2004, I donated the Integra with 240,000 miles on it. Both were great cars to drive. Now I have an 2005 Accord 5-speed auto.

    I am looking to buy 2009 TSX in the fall. If I am going to sell the car after 4 to 5 years, will there be a problem selling 6-speed manual?
  • austinman7austinman7 Posts: 313
    "Will there be a problem selling 6-speed manual?"

    Interesting question, since I think less than 10 percent of American cars are made these days with a manual transmission.

    But, for what it's worth, I sold my 2000 Accord coupe 5-speed manual recently with very little effort. I did it the old-fashioned way -- no high-tech eBay or Craig's List listings to all the world with photos, just a three-line classified ad in my local newspaper. Had just one person call, and he bought it at basically my asking price. Couldn't have been simpler.

    I think the point is that the manual transmission enthusiasts seek each other out, they watch for good cars like my Accord, and are always around to buy, albeit in small numbers. But, you only need one buyer, right?
  • I think the point is that the manual transmission enthusiasts seek each other out, they watch for good cars like my Accord, and are always around to buy, albeit in small numbers. But, you only need one buyer, right?

    As a specialty car, I guess, there will be a market for 6-speed manual TSX. Selling a family car with manual transmission could be a problem, as most people don't know how to drive stick shift.

    When TSX hits showrooms, I would like to see whether there is a significant demand for 6-speed manual, compared to 5-speed automatic.
  • smccreadysmccready Posts: 10
    I was at the local Acura dealer test driving an '08 TSX, and he showed me the '09's that they have in stock - just got 'em in.

    Quick comments: overall, I like the body more than I had from pics. However, the grill just doesn't work for me. The interior looks nice, though I don't like the big knob contraption they have for controlling everything.

    Nice, but not compelling enough for me - still leaning towards picking up an '08 TSX, since they're getting so cheap!
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    Maybe the ho hum 2.4 engine in the '09 is just a head fake, and the new diesel will be the engine that propels (sorry, bad pun) and sustains TSX sales for '10 and '11, especially if that engine is exclusive to the TSX. Under this marketing scenario, the "all new" will make sales respectable for the '09 model year, and the (new and exciting) diesel will keep sales perking in '10 and '11. The advertising tag line could be something that conveys the notion of "green luxury", or "green driving excitement." Then, for '12, the last year of this generation, Acura could offer some hot leasing or financing deals, and accept a drop in sales, in anticipation of the next generation TSX. Whaddayathink?
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    I think that it could work if TSX were the only sedan Acura sold.

    Long-term, Acura needs to be looking at their sedan lineup and seeking more differentiation. They've got 3 models of very similar size, none of which is a winner at the track when run against other models of similar price.

    They could just drop the RL the way Infiniti seems to have finally sealed the deal on the Q45. It could be replaced with something more sexy, perhaps a sport coupe or roadster for folks who don't have the $100 grand it is going to cost to buy the new NSX.

    Then they could take the TL somewhat upmarket, leaving the TSX to cover the early $30Ks, and in that case it is going to need a WAY more compelling powertrain and performance specs.

    And if they did all that, I would still be longing for the days when Acura sold a small, nimble car with genuinely sporty handling and road feel and decent speed. Maybe they could introduce something new for the $25-30K bracket the way every other manufacturer has.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    You mentioned more differentiation, nippononly. Well, just this week I read that plans call for Acura to be much more differentiated from Honda than it currently is. For example, the next generation TSX supposedly will not be slightly tarted up European Accord. Like you, though, I'd like to see a new version of the Integra/RSX, or a Acura version of the prelude. I especially liked the second generation Prelude. It was nicely styled, and had the driving attributes you described.
  • dairyshickdairyshick Posts: 129
    I'm not a huge fan of the '09 TSX exterior styling at this point, but I don't necessarily disagree with Acura's choice in keeping with the 4-cyl. I have driven the 06 TSX in both manual and automatic...the automatic isn't overly exciting but definitely sufficient, and the manual was a fun car to drive and had plenty of power for everyday use. Despite what many people on this forum seem to think, not everyone who buys a car has the intention of street racing or knowing they're able to beat every car they're next to at a traffic light. This car may not be the quickest in its class, but it definitely holds its own pretty well against the competitions' base engines (IS250, A4 2.0T, C300). Obviously the optional engines in the competition will destroy a TSX, but at a significantly higher price.

    For the features you get in this car, it's a pretty sweet deal for the price. Plus, people buying cars in this segment aren't usually the richy rich people that can afford whatever they want. It actually seems that most people I know of driving entry-level luxury sedans can't even afford them in the first place, but feel they need that luxury status...but I digress. For ~$33K, this car gives you tons of features that you need to pay around $40K for with the competition - navigation, rear view camera, memory seats, bluetooth, sat radio, Xenon headlights, 17" wheels, sunroof, leather, nice stereo, homelink...etc. Go ahead and price out a 328i, IS250, A4 2.0T or C300 with the major options of the TSX, and you can't get close in price. Plus, reliability for Acura is ahead of all of the competition.

    I just thought this car deserved a different perspective. I would have bought a current generation TSX in a second but went with an Accord because I wanted a slightly bigger car with more room. Regardless, I still think the TSX (current and new) is one of the best deals on the upscale market for getting tons of features and a decent engine at a terrific price.

    As far as a cheaper Acura than the TSX goes, I don't see Honda moving back in that direction, especially since they just moved away from that direction by getting rid of the RSX. I think they count on the civic-si as their budget performance product, which also gives you plenty of features at a good price, and wouldn't want to step on their own toes by making a smaller Acura again.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    I don't disagree with your comments about performance (the TSX offers enough for my needs) and value, if it weren't for the fact that you get an even better value proposition in a Honda. If the RDX turbo engine had come standard in the TSX, at no increase in price, it would have differentiated the Acura sufficiently from the Accord to appeal more to those looking for more performance than the Accord EX-L offers, and better handling than the V6 EX, due to better weight distribution.
  • dairyshickdairyshick Posts: 129
    That's definitely true and the TSX lost out in that same exact battle when i was deciding on what to get. However, now that the Accord has been inflated to full-size sedan dimensions, it has sort of separated itself from being as directly competitive with the TSX. The TSX also gives you more luxury features (memory, nicer stereo, reverse down-looking side mirrors, nicer interior...). The problem is, that's compared to a much more powerful V6 Accord that costs ~$2K less...it's an even bigger gap when you look at the 4-cyl Accord, so I'm sure it's still going to hurt the TSX. That argument can be made for any luxury brand, though. There are always going to be much cheaper, closely comparable non-luxury brands on the market, but being able to be seen in an expensive car is what sells those cars to lots of people. A much more drastic, but applicable comparison is the upcoming Genesis. A loaded Genesis will be 10's of thousands less than the bmw, mercedes, lexus and audi that it compares with, but there are people that will easily spend that extra money a) because they can and b) because that would never want to be seen in a Hyundai. The same can be said for tons of other comparisons.

    Anyway, point well taken! If I was buying now and had to choose between the two, though, my personal decision would be the new TSX over the new Accord because I think the new Accord is just flat out ugly and too big. Many others will think otherwise and choose the Accord over the TSX.
  • repoman1repoman1 Posts: 64
    Talked to a dealer today. He said the 2009 TSX has just arrived - and ready to test drive. Also said that Honda has told them diesel and 6 cylinder will be available one year from now - on the 2010 TSX.
  • upstatedocupstatedoc Posts: 710
    Just got my official e-mail from Acura....top of the line '09 TSX w/ tech package:

    $32,700 incl. destination.

    '08 TL anyone? :sick:
  • nj2pa2ncnj2pa2nc Posts: 813
    I got to test drive a 09 basque red pearl/ebony with tech package and 6MT TSX today. It was better than I thought it would be. I love the nav with the back-up camera, etc. I might buy one at the end of this year or wait until next spring. I still love my 06 Milano red-wish they had that color.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    Well, I also agree with your points, with caveats. The '08 Accord has grown too large for my needs and preference too, even though it's not much bigger than the '03-'07 generation. Just because the new Accord is labeled "full size" doesn't mean that it's grown all that much. The previous generation was probably at the high end of "intermediate or mid size" while the '08 is at the small end of full size.
    In the meantime, the new TSX has also grown, especially in width, so the size differential between the TSX and Accord remains approximately the same.

    Your point that comparisons between near luxury and less prestigious brands aren't exclusive to Acura and Honda makes perfect sense. I'm sure it's something that many shoppers wrestle with. However, Nissan/Infiniti deflated the need for such comparisons by converting the entire Infiniti brand to rear wheel drive. I think this, or the Toyota/Lexus model, is the example that Acura should follow. With the exception of the Camry based ES, Lexus also differentiated its Lexus luxury division from its mainstream Toyota brand. Acura could leave the TSX as its only front wheel drive model.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    all the most successful luxury brands make their most car sales from their smallest models, ALL of which are smaller than TSX (325i, IS, C-class, etc). Acura could sell a smaller more nimble model. I think the main problem with the RSX (in Honda's mind) was that it was too cheap to be taken seriously. I was thinking of reintroducing a proper $25-27K model below the TL.

    As for the TSX itself, I actually almost bought this car back in 2004 for $26K, and in 2004, for $26K, the TSX was a competitive car. In 2008, at $29K and with the same powertrain, it is falling behind, that's all I'm saying.

    The 2010 diesel will boost sales though, I have no doubt. And I bet that when the 2010 cars finally get here, that other optional engine will be the RDX turbo, not a 6-cylinder. Any takers?!... :-P

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    If you assume the annual inflation rate between '04 and '08 was 3%, then $26,000 back then is the equivalent of $29,263 today (four years later). Therefore, if the '04 TSX was a "competitive car" in '04, one could argue that the '09 TSX remains competitive, especially if, (a) one considers the '09 to be at least a little improved overall compared with the '04, and, (b) the '09 is five models years newer than the '04, which is a positive factor in terms of depreciation. Of course, these considerations have to be weighed against the progress that competing models - the IBM 325, Lexus IS, Volvo S60, Audi A-4, Saab 9-2 2.0 turbo - have made. While one's conclusion comes down to a value judgement, I think one can argue that the '09 TSX in '08 remains about as good a value as the '04 was in its day. Part of my thinking is that, like the TSX, the competing models haven't made dramatic strides over the past four years either.

    Of course, today you could also cross shop a Pontiac G-8 V6 against the TSX, and while the G-8 is even larger than the TSX, and its reliability might not be up to Acura standards, it may be a better near luxury value.
  • biker4biker4 Posts: 746
    If the Honda statements about the launch of Acura in Europe are to be believed the entire lineup will go RWD by 2015, The TSX can't stay FWD if Acura plans to sell it in Europe - badge engineering won't work there - they'd need something very different from the EuroAccord. Like Lexus, Acura could leave the TL to compete with the ES while having a compact entry level (future TSX), mid size (future RL) and full size (??? start watching the trademark submissions for names from Honda) and the NSX (to compete with LF-A). Everything besides the TL would be based on some RWD platform.

    Hosts, since the 09 TSX is officially out this should be moved from future vehicles to the TSX threads.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    "If you assume the annual inflation rate between '04 and '08 was 3%, then $26,000 back then is the equivalent of $29,263 today"

    Yeah, but that's not the way it works with cars, particularly "all new" models introduced during a recession. Take any model of car and track its base price backwards in time. They don't generally rise at the rate of inflation.

    Example: VW Passat turbo (base engine). List in 2002 was $23,375. Base price today for the '08 is $23,990 according to Edmunds.

    Example: 2002 Acura TL, list $29,360. The 2008 Acura TL, a car that I think we can all agree was COMPLETELY remade and enormously improved for MY 2004, lists at $33,725, a barely 2% increase per year.

    Example: BMW 3-series. In 2002 the base model was the 325i, listing at $32,465. The 2008 base model is the 328i, listing at $32,400. Makes the 328i look like a bargain today, huh?!

    My point is, car prices do not rise at the same rate as inflation.

    And yes, as you stated, the TSX has to "be weighed against the progress that competing models - the IBM 325, Lexus IS, Volvo S60, Audi A-4, Saab 9-2 2.0 turbo - have made."

    It is in this area that I find it coming up short. I have now driven it (I am on my dealer's listserve as I used to own an Acura, so I was invited to come drive it now that dealers have it in stock) and find it to be not notably improved from the '04 I drove before, in terms of driving dynamics and performance. Yes, there is more techno wizardry in the cockpit, but in the end those are just gizmos. I like to drive for driving's sake.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    biker4: Interesting information about future Acuras, biker4. I had read something similar to what you wrote recently, but didn't have confidence in my source. Conversion to RWD for most of its models makes perfect sense for Acura, though, if they're serious about competing with the top tier luxury brands in world markets.

    If Acura is going to retain one FWD model, shouldn't that be the TSX, rather than the TL? The tradeoffs favoring FWD tend to be greatest in smaller, four cylinder cars than larger sixes, just as the the greatest relative advantages of RWD are in high torque V8s, V10s, and V12 applications.

    nippononly: "...the TSX has to "be weighed against the progress that competing models - the IBM 325..."

    You meant BMW, of course.

    "... there is more techno wizardry in the cockpit, but in the end those are just gizmos. I like to drive for driving's sake."

    I agree 100%. Telematics generally doesn't excite me much, although I appreciate certain features, such as traction control, anti-lock brakes, and electronic stability control. These are wonderful features. I can't warm up to features such as lane departure alerts or controls, or automatic parking. Beeps, vibrations and other alerts would be especially annoying to me. I may exclude certain luxury models from consideration in the future, because they tend to be crammed with telematic features that have a negative value for me.
  • gdoctsx1gdoctsx1 Posts: 60
    I just drove a white 2009 TSX (auto) with the Navi. I can feel that the car pulls somewhat better up to 4000 RPM, however what's odd is that the iV-TEC does not open up very much at 6000 or so RPM. Infact, the engine noise is a lot louder and has a "thinner" sound. Very odd. Hated the sound of the engine compared to my 06 TSX. Very disappointed with the fact that you can't feel anything when the v-tec opens up. In the 06 there is a noticble pull to the engine around 6000rpm which is totally gone in the car I drove. The plastic around the center column looks rather cheap and I don't like the fact that only paddle shifters are available in the auto. I prefer the tiptronic flexibility. I can live with the looks of the car and the stereo, rear camera, xm radio and the mp3 stuff....however, the engine noise is a big downer for me along with no vtec pull at 6000rpm. I'll stick with my 06
  • upstatedocupstatedoc Posts: 710
    See templeofvtec's dyno test, that should explain the different feeling of the '09's engine. :shades:

    p.s. I'm ending all my posts with "shades" in honor of the sunniest stretch of weather we've had here I think ever. :shades:
This discussion has been closed.