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Comments
There's a hint of maxima in it that I don't like.. but not bad, i like the tightness overall. not impressed with the choice of colors for the pictures though... ugh
http://hondanews.com/CatID3046?mid=2004040738738&mime=asc&- ;archives=t
300 hp
3.5 V6
5 speed paddle-style tranny.
Standard NAV with traffic link.
ACE crash protection (new architecture).
Headlights that swivel up to 20 degrees.
No weight, but length is a bit shorter than the old model. They claim that they've used lighter materials in several main parts of the architecture.
It looks exactly like the sketches. Put the sketch and photo side by side. Every line and detail matches up. You just have to know how to "read" a sketch. As I've written before, the use of line and color can make things look far more dramatic than is possible in real life.
That said, I like it. It's handsome without being exotic. On other boards, they are comparing it with every vehicle under the sun. Which simply means it can't possibly look like anything else. The interior is a bit dark in that color, but the design looks nice. As with other recent Acuras, I love the gauges.
It's inoffensive, but the Dubs seen on the concept won't make production. So what will it look like with 17's?
DrFill
It looks like a bigger TL to me.
I think if you want a sporty car, that's where the TL comes in.
But if you want a pure luxury sedan for cruising, you gotta have something just for that too.
For example, if you want pure luxury, you get a 740iL; if you want Sporty, you get the 540iL.
If you want Luxury, you get the Lexus LS430; if you want Sporty, you get the GS430.
The 05 RL just doesn't look like a pure luxury car to me. It looks more like a 540iL or GS430, except it has the excuse-me-did-you-say-V6 engine, instead of the that's-more-like-it-V8.
Total disappointment to me.
Well, perhaps I had it all wrong. I thought the RL was competing with the LS430, 740iL, Mercedes S430. But perhaps it was trying (and failing) to compete with the 540iL and GS430 all along.
My bad.
The new RL is aimed at the GS300, E class, BMW 530, and Audi A6. While the V8 models get all the press, the V6 models are the ones that provide the bulk of their sales volume. If we are to believe the rumors, the base price will be higher than those, but the RL comes fully loaded. Not to mention that the RL's V6 boasts 300 hp, which is about 70-80 hp more than most of the others.
This leaves Acura without a truly big luxury barge in their showroom. That may hurt them. But, lets face it, they haven't had one of those for the past 8 years. On the other hand, this RL does bring them back to something like the original Legend.
The RL has never targeted the LS430 or S500 before, and it will continue to not target them. Honda doesnt make full size luxury cars. One question, do you know how many GS300s and and 530is out number their V8 counterparts? For the Lexus 80% of their sales are from the six cylinder car, so I dont think a V8 is an absolute "must have" in this segment. As I've said before, the current M45 comes V8 only, and its a sales disaster. Acura most likely has the '05 GS300 and '06 Infiniti M35 directly in their sites. If the car has 300hp, it will out power the '05 GS300 by 60hp, and it will at the very least match the M35, if Nissan can get their VQ up to 300hp in that application. Oh and by the way, a 911 Carerra 4S has an "excuse-me-did-you-say-V6" (well a boxer 6) and it will take every V8 car on your list to school. Hell a Subie STI makes 300hp out of 4 cylinders, and it will school those cars as well. There IS in fact a replacement for displacement. Honda engineering.
Acura RL
44-48K (Estimated MSRP)
300 hp V6
AWD
NAV
193.5" long
72.6" wide
57.1" tall
110.2" WB
Lexus GS300 (current model)
44,500 TMV (48,575 MSPRP)
220 hp V6
RWD
NAV
189.2" long
70.9" wide
55.9" tall
110.2" WB
Jaguar S-Type
$49,000 TMV ($52,000 MSRP)
235 hp V6
RWD
NAV
192" long
81.1 wide
56" tall
114.5 WB
MB E-Class
$52,943 TMV ($54,295 MSRP)
221 hp V6
RWD
NAV
189.7" long
71.3" wide
57.2" tall
112.4" WB
BMW 530i
$52,500 TMV ($53,500 MSRP)
225 hp V6
RWD
NAV
190.6" long
72.7" wide
58" tall
113.7" WB
Audi A6 (current model)
$42,700 TMV ($45,200 MSRP)
220 hp V6
AWD
No NAV
192" long
71.3" wide
57.1" tall
108.6" WB
:-)
we were all right on the aztec.
If you take TL for example, it goes head to head with 5 year old 330 and 3 year old G35. TL also had a big stake in near luxury and has nice design.
Time will show.
- Bret
An LSD is designed to prevent more than a bare minimum of slippage. During a hard turn, it ensures that the outside wheel gets a fair share of the torque being routed through the rear diffy. But the amount of torque split between the rear wheels is pretty much 50/50.
SH-AWD takes it a step further. This system makes sure that the outside wheel get even more than it's fair share of power. It can send as much as 100% to one side or the other. With more torque going to the outside wheel, it pushes the car around the turn.
Are you familiar with the ATTS system that Honda offered on the Prelude SH? It's like that, only for the rear wheels.
Furthermore, SH-AWD uses electronic sensors hooked up to the steering, engine, a yaw gyro-thingy, and brakes to manage torque distribution. If you stomp on the gas, it sends power to the rear for better traction and acceleration. If you yank the wheel to the right, it sends power to the outside left wheel as you turn (not after).
MT just put the CTS ahead of it, and C&D didn't exactly say "Amen" either!
It's a nice car, but let's settle down, or we'll have to enforce a two drink minimum, k?
DrFill
M
M
To me this car should be compared with the M45 and the GS300. Agains those - its a winner in my book. After the M45 (or M35) is revamped by the end of the year it might be a toss up ( I really thing Infiniti will mess up again on the styling and interior).
I respect CR, and it serves an essential consumer perspective. But we all know it will pick practicality over excitement almost every single time.
CR picks TL, the enthusiast mags pick G35, that says it all.
I expect the same with RL/M. CR will pick RL and GS over M, that's a virtual given, but I don't think Infiniti minds. Neither do Infiniti fans!
Flagships are hardly about wow factor (stylingwise). Look at LS430. In case of Mercedes, the C-class, E-class and the S-class are virtually identical, and so it the case with Audi. BMW is heading in the same direction although the company tried to break the mold and move from a conservative styling (last generation 7-series) to the new aggressive look that everybody seems to hate.
Sometimes I wonder what people want.
And cars within the same family (same automaker) are bound to have common cues. It is virtually unavoidable. Better to use one's own cues than copy it (like many do).
I see this style as inoffensive, while retaining familiar cues that I have come to expect from Honda/Acura. The tail lamp rear is reminiscent of Acura CL (first generation), the overall rear profile resembles the direction that Acura adopted in the late 90s (first generation TL and RL and carried into last CL), as well as in Honda Accord coupe (in its current form, which I always thought took the cues from 1996+ TL and 2001 CL).
The front is a smoother version of the current RL’s (which I happen to like). Updated nicely, without deviating much.
THIS VIEW is a better representative of the frontal style, and it has “Acura” written all over it.
And while Im at it... a close up shot of the REAR .
To think that the current '04 RL actually competes with any sports sedans is stupid, don't you think?
All the Acura sales people I've talked to says that the RL is aimed at competing with the Lexus LS.
By the way, excuse me for that fatal "L" I accidentally attached to the "i" for the BMW 540i.
Ever heard of mistypes?
Perhaps you spell everything correct 100% of the time, but most of us don't.
Nothing about those pics makes me want to even test drive it. Looks like a souped-up Accord.
Tragic and pathetic excuse for a top-of-the-line luxury vehicle.
I don't know. Maybe the new RL will be the middle of the line like the BMW 5-Series or GS and a new Acura top-of-the-line will appear as a 2006 model to compete with the LS430 and BMW740.
To me, flagship needs to be pure luxury. Mid models like the GS, 5-series, etc. can go for more styles and sporty.
But if the RL now competes with the GS300 and 530, etc., I guess it better have style and sport.
Different strokes for different folks.
2005 RL is different, at least on paper. This RL may be comparable to the LS430 in some ways
- cabin size
- both are flagships for their respective brands
The RL may actually have more standard features than the base LS430, even though it would cost thousands less. It would be ridiculous to expect direct competition at 25% discount.
You appear to be a big fan of LS430. Not sure what moves you about its styling. That car does nothing for me.
Oh, and the next GS looks like eggplant on wheels to me. :-) Okay, that was a little harsh, but it is too bloated to my tastes.
The RL, is tighter. Nothing outstanding about the styling, but that is how flagships are styled. Just think the new BMW 7-series versus the old. What do you think? Understated styling is the key.
I was too, but I think I've figured it out. His logic goes like this. If the '04 RL was not targeted at the LS430, then it must have been aimed at the GS300 (a sport sedan). It's an either/or fallacy, but an understandlable one.
FWIW, I think the '04 RL had no true competition. It was in a niche by itself. I expect many of the customers who bought them compared it with fully loaded ES300 sedans. The RL had similar equipment, a similar price tag, but was bigger on the inside.
So far, in this thread alone, we've learned that the new RL look like the TL, Accord coupe, Corolla, S-Class, 7 Series, CL-S, old 2.3CL, I35, and the Pontiac GTO.
In other forums, I've seen comparisons with most of the above, plus the following: Catera, several Hyundais, Millenia, Accord sedan, Legend, Mazda6, old Camry, Phaeton, Q45, and IS300.
It's a bloomin' chameleon!
BTW, for all of you trying to describe the taillights, look at the last Aurora. (There's another one!) =)
It is targeting the new M35, GS300, 525/530, and E320, A6. Those who said it is targeting LS, you must check your MSRP once again. LS is a floating device. Luxurious, but drives like a boat. Ever try 530 with sports package?
I hope let us get by the look, and discuss more on some of the details of RL. I, for one, has a question:
- does it come with LED taillights? Can't tell for sure from picture, and does not mention it anywhere in the news.
Finally, I think the silver in photos does not do it justice. A deep blue or jet black would look really nice with the new 2005 RL. And, that is probably what I would order with beige interior.
The inside is not going to disappoint, it looks rich and well executed. Materials should be top notch no surprises here. It's also going to have the latest smart key technology like the new revised LS430. Handling is going to be near class leading. This class is really going to get hot as the all new M35/45 and GS are set to launch.
I think Acura has to compare itself to any car that offers an equivalent V6 engine, even if it is sold for $10k more. Acura needs to make a bold statement if it wants to attract the higher end customers. If a person could afford to get a fully loaded E320, and saw the new RL, they should want to go with the RL not because of the money, but because that it looks great, and has the features of an SClass. I just think Acura needs to realize that looks are vital, and it needs to be bold to take some important market share.
It is targeting the new M35, GS300, 525/530, and E320, A6. Those who said it is targeting LS, you must check your MSRP once again. LS is a floating device. Luxurious, but drives like a boat. Ever try 530 with sports package?
I hope let us get by the look, and discuss more on some of the details of RL. I, for one, has a question:
- does it come with LED taillights? Can't tell for sure from picture, and does not mention it anywhere in the news.
Finally, I think the silver in photos does not do it justice. A deep blue or jet black would look really nice with the new 2005 RL. And, that is probably what I would order with beige interior.
As long as we're at it... The spare is a compact. Total combined weight of passengers and cargo should not exceed 850 lbs.
"I just think Acura needs to realize that looks are vital, and it needs to be bold to take some important market share."
I agree, but then again, I don't. =) I mean, the 99-03 TL was nice, but not bold. It did just fine.
Let's say I don't care for speed.
Let's say I just want that road isolation and quiet ride of a Lexus, but I just don't want to pay that extra $10K.
Could a V6 ride as smooth and quiet as a V8?
For example, could a V6 ride as smooth, quiet, and road-isolated as the Lexus LS430?
Okay, I don't see how quietness has anything to do with engine size. But theoretically, could Acura have made the RL with a V6 to be as road-isolated and smooth riding as the LS430 and still costs $10K less?
Or how about a base model GX470 SUV which costs about the same as the RL? Could the RL be as smooth, quiet, and road-isolated as the GX470 SUV?
Again, this is assuming I just care about luxury, quiet, smooth, road-isolated, and not at all about performance or speed.
I make no reference to about tire size sticker, which I knew about from other sites already. Why did you bring it up to me? The points?
Andrewtran71, again, the new RL is not about tranquility. Yes, it is the top-end of Acura, but who says the top-end of a brand name must be luxurious, not sporty? Honda, as a company is about 4X smaller than Toyota. It has no V8 to compete in that sesegment. I am glad Acura give that up until at least they have the IMA ready for big time.
Why you described seems like ES330 to me. Trust me, 100lb insolation materials could make most good vehicle as quiet as any Lexus, but would I like it, NO. That is 100lb too heavy to me.
RL would be a great car if it offered the right mix of ride, features, performance (acceleration & handling), and for a reasonable price. I hope it doesn't carry a long list of options (thats something I hate to see in "luxury" cars, hey that was the idea to have luxury cars, right?).
On paper, RL appears to address that. Now, how it feels in person, we shall see. At this point, I'd imagine that RL to LS430 would be more like Accord to Camry. And you know which I would prefer.