Try Team Toyota in Langhorne. We got $1500 off MSRP without trying hard. Twist the Sales Managers' arm some and you can get them down to at least $1700 (we did it on an LE7 with option #7 and Z1). We did order it cheaper somewhere else though.
No, I am talking of 2004 Sienna. The website is actually www.eddiewigginstoyota.com. I did not actually try to build a sienna with custom options. I took one which they had in their current inventory. Mine had 16 miles on it and was in the lot for about 3 weeks. It had a spoiler and toyoguard plus which I was not keen about, but I felt I could live with it since the price was much better than what I was getting from other dealers in the Atlanta area.
"I gave dealer 2 my offer up front, told him it was fair and firm, and asked that we not go back and forth. He took the offer to the manager, and came back within a minute, with 24360! Keep in mind that the sticker was $25860 - straight MSRP, without any extra crap.
I countered with a 2nd but final offer of 24125, a $75 increase. I told him that if he came down to this price, I would buy. But then I started having pangs of guilt, that if I bought tonight, dealer 1 wouldn’t even have a chance to negotiate on a car we actually wanted more. So I told dealer 2 that instead of completing the deal, I would come back tomorrow, when I could inspect the car in daylight. Bad thing to say to a someone intent on selling, as dealer 2 surely was. He went to his manager and immediately came back and agreed to my counteroffer. I again stated my reservations, and the salesman cut the price, without the aid of his manager, to my original offer!
I had now spent 20 minutes at the table, and was feeling guilty about the whole thing. Even though there was an arguably good deal on the table, I still felt that I should give dealer 1 a chance. I was doubly confused at how easily I was getting this deal. I tried to graciously get us out of there, when dealer 2 did something I have never seen any car salesman do, and probably never will again.
Dealer 2 cut my original offer by about $200 and asked if that would work, pending his manager’s approval. Thirty seconds later he came back with the new lower figure. It’s now 9:20, and we’re done! What’s wrong with this picture?"
My response:
Nothing...and, yes, a little ambivalence can work to your advantage. I haven't tried that approach while buying, though. I doubt I could pull it off as adeptly as you did!!
Discounts hard to come by ESPECIALLY in Atlanta. no one in Atlanta wants to come down further than $600. I found some in NC and AL and anywhere else further than a 2 hour drive.
Anyone else know a good dealer or contact?
The kicker is they have the colors we want here in town.
tdoh said:"One NorCal dealer told me that his dealership was still offering no lower than $1500 above invoice on fully-loaded (e.g., DVD and/or Nav-based packages) XLE/XLE Limited trim, but was willing to do the $500 above invoice + TDA/etc.) for the CE/LE. " tdoh- my quotes for $500 over are for the xle limited with packages #4 or 5 (i am now up to 4 dealers now). Additionally i have seen a great number of AWD's too around the Bay and i believe you can get those for the same price.. Just expand your search area and blast out alot of emails and be very clear what your offer is. Best of luck.
"You forgot to include the price for the running boards, which I'm guessing runs about $480 invoice...;-)"
Yup, I didn't include the cost of the running boards. Sorry for the oversight. I presume they are an accessory item, since I do not see them in any of the option packages. I also don't know how to get invoice prices on accessories. (Perhaps someone can enlighten us!)
"In any case, the reality is that his offer was $38883, which is roughly $2000 over invoice when TDA/MAF is included...still about $2800 below MSRP. Based on your example, I should offer no more than $38000 (your $37500 + RB) for it? Sounds good to me...now only if there was a dealer who'd go for it, keeping in mind I'm asking for the top-of-the-line XLE Limited AWD model rather than the more plentiful CE/LE models."
Essentially, yes. Despite my mistake in excluding the cost of running boards, I stand by the basic elements of the computations I outlined in #2805. What I've said - repeatedly in this forum - is that you should be able to buy a vehicle selling well (like the Sienna) at less than Edmund's invoice + 4% (5% if you are feeling generous). At least that should be your goal, and that goes for XLE Limited's. (If you think 4% is too much, then substitute your own mark-up - your decision.) If you can't, despite your best efforts, then I have also suggested waiting until supply from the manufacturer better matches demand.
In today's market an offer of (Edmunds') invoice + 4% should be enough that your salesman doesn't insist you pay additional charges that Edmunds' pricing excludes, like TDA (the regional advertising fee). If you are asked to, then refuse.
Of course, not all dealerships will take such offers. However, it has been my experience that many will and you'd be surprised at how much a dealership will bend if you make a firm offer and stand by your price - even when there are only one or two vehicles in a particular model in inventory.
Anyone know which 16" tires the Sienna comes with? I know some manufacturers use more then 1 make and model tire for the same vehicle. Just wondering if I should take notice of which ones are on the Sienna I'm looking at.
Bought my FWD LTD with package 6 today at $2800 below MSRP. Seems like not many FWD LTDs with package 6 are on the ground in this region, but I guess dealers are having to move cars during the Holiday season. Email me if you would like to know who I dealt with etc.
I shopped the Sienna for a while in Richmond, VA and finally ended up paying invoice + 4% for a 2004 Sienna LE 7, w/option package #8 in Silver Shadow. I shopped this deal for a while. I could not do better in the time frame I had available. If I had longer to shop I possibly could have done a little better.
I had two dealers in the area tell me that it was MSRP only, no dealing. It should be noted that there are a lot of ways for a dealership to make money when you buy a new car. If you buy gap insurance, credit insurance, extended warranty or a service plan, the dealership makes a hefty commission on any of these items. You may have not have gotten as good a deal on the van as you thought.
Of all the extras offered at the time of purchase, the only one I will consider will be the extended warranty. The finance manager at the dealership I purchased my van from said that I can buy the extended warranty from them at any time before the existing warranty expired. This is important. I have 3 years or 36,000 miles to determine if I want the extended warranty. Of course, I will wait to see what type of service I need under the existing warranty to make a decision. I was not aware that you could purchase this warranty after the initial purchase. The more complex your vehicle, a Sienna with many options at all is complex, the more sense it makes to purchase an extended warranty.
In my final deal, the dealer offered 4% above invoice. His offer for my trade-in was a bit above any other offers. He also offered me a very, very favorable interest rate in financing. The interest rate he offered me saveg me over $600 over the life of the loan over any other interest rate offered by any other bank/credit union/ dealership that I researched. I researched many. This is worth noting.
Needless to say, I am thrilled with the van. I never thought I would be excited about a mini-van.
I was considering SUVs. I already have one four-wheel drive so I did not need another. While shopping I noted that a mini-van cannot be topped in passenger room, cargo room, comfort or cost by most any SUV.
I'm looking Sienna CE8 package#3, since it's rare available on the ground, I would like to plave an order for it. my question is if I place the order before the end of this year, could I get better price than I do in the next year? I know salesmen are eager to make more deals in the end of year, the order will be built up in their sales column? I'm in Houston area, what price is reasonble for that order? thanks, happy holiday.
Placing an order before the end of the year would be more of a function to get a deal in while the selling market is weak. As a salesman can't get credit for the order until it is actually delivered, I don't know that a car ordered will get you as good a deal as one that is at the dealer and delivered before Jan 1.
Call around and also check with out of town dealers who'll drop ship. The supply is definitely improving. I am not familiar with the Gulf States, but in the DC/MD/VA region, they are advertising $2000 or $3000 off MSRP on all Siennas (mainly CEs, LEs and XLEs). So it definitely gives you a chance to visit a friend or a relative and get rid of the expensive Gulf State add-ons such as the extra mile package.
I am looking to buy a 2004 Sienna CE. I live in Northern California and want to know what I should be expected to pay for this vehicle. Any help would be appreciated.
Hi--How do I send you an email? I am also looking for a 2004 Sienna XLE Limited with Option Pkg. #6, + running boards. I am in Virginia Beach, and all Hampton Roads dealers are stuck on MSRP. One mentions limited-time $1000 off MSRP offers, but only for in-stock vehicles, and this would likely have to be ordered. I am reluctant to buy out of area, as my experience has been getting any problems resolved from dealer other than selling dealer leaves them less than motivated. Any information would be appreciated.
First let me say thanks for saving me from the MSRP market manipulation. Dealers try to brainwash you into saying you can't get a deal. You guys opened my eyes to a "deal" being an okay thing to ask for.
Anyhow. I sent out a TON of emails to pretty much the entire state of GA, about 50 and some in AL and NC. I got a bunch of immediate MSRP replies from almost every one. Then about 7 replies with slightly below MSRP by about $400-600, then about 7 with real deals that were trying to win my business. I shopped my tradein this way and using a website to show pictures of the car was able to get tradein numbers and a good deal from 4 of the dealers. So in the end it came down to the best of 4, factoring in distance to the dealer.
In general ALL atlanta dealers would not deal at all until the very very end when they realized I was going elsewhere. Right at the end dealers that said "we can sell MSRP all day long so we don't drop our price" were trying to win my business and drop to 5-6% over invoice. Some got close to 4% but had lousy trade in numbers.
Here are the numbers and the dealers. This is for a xle-limited
Town & Country, NC. 30,992 but they must have made a mistake (below invoice!) and then never would return my call.
Bohn Bros, LA and Thomasville, GA had best deals but too far of a drive. 2% over invoice, and 32,490 for each of those guys. Never responded on tradein quote.
I traded in a 99 bmw 540iT and so it was a huge factor. was offered between 18 and 21 and one at 22,4. Went with the 22,4 offer and Butler Toyota because they would offer a fair price for the car. Plus the guy was really nice and seemed very fair. Kelly blue book "good" tradein, whereas most others lowballed it like crazy, even carmax at 20k even though they said it was in excellent shape in their report. 2400 below good rating for an excellent car? They're wacked.
Recommendations: I highly recommend Serra Toyota, and Butler.
Strong recommend Savannah but they had a little know-it-all attitude but hit $1000 over invoice immediately and decent trade in.
Reserved recommend Sandy Springs, Hank Aaron, Cherokee County, Team Toyota as it seemed you had to be almost buying another vehicle before they'd give you any slack. Still came in low on trade in and reluctantly dropped price late in the game.
Hope this helps someone... Givin back.
My advice with the trade in is make a website with pictures of your car and use that to get the best tradein. I drove down to Macon in my bmw 540, drove home in a minivan...no cheating or last minute slippery numbers.
in the southeast it seems invoice may be a lil higher by at least 500 due to some fees they are forced to pay by big brother. One guy said it's 32,1 for base limited...
seems like at least 30,680+540 deliv, +575 admin. I was scrounging for 2% above the
I'm not sure if it's the truth or not. It may be as no one could touch 2% of 31225.
There are two Toyota distributors in the US (three, counting Toyota itself). One is Gulf States and the other is Southeast Toyota (SET). Gulf States and SET tend to try to add on useless options and extra fees that you don't find in the rest of the US.
Next time, shop Tennessee too (kidding!).
Congrats on the new Sienna. This is the first time I've noticed a member getting the dealer trade-in valued and sold via pics over the net. Nice work!
Why would anyone expect a fleet deal when they are only buying one vehicle? Why would you want to deprive a person of his or her living? Why is 5% not a fair deal? I work hard for my money and I take very good care of my customers, both before and after the sale. I retired in 95 and have been selling Hondas and Toyotas since 96, and I have a very loyal customer base. It is my experience that the ones that want invoice are the ones that are never happy with the dealership or the salesperson. The people that make me and the dealership a reasonable offer are the ones that are in and out in quickly and are very satisfied. If you make an unreasonable offer it is up to the salesperson or manager to persuade you to make one that is more reasonable. It only takes as long as you want it to take. Just some thoughts from the other side of the table. John Perry
I got a great deal using the Edmund's pricing inquiries. Alexandria Toyota was able to give me a very good price on an AWD Sienna Limited with Package #6 (HO) w/ the nav and DVD player.
Searching around all the dealers in the area, they were one of 2 dealers with that model. The internet rep also showed me stats that showed that Toyota only makes about 4% out of their entire line for this month in this AWD model and package for the Mid-Atlantic region. 355 Toyota also offered some good deals, however, they didn't have any in stock and didn't have any coming until January. The 12 dealers I spoke with in the area wouldn't give me any deals lower than MSRP. One gave me $50 off and the rest wouldn't budge. The guys at Alexandria Toyota not only gave me a good deal, they also threw in the freight charge as well. Needless to say, the deal was done about 15 minutes after showing up at the dealer. My prior experience with 355 Toyota was the usual 3-4 hour marathon between the me, the sales rep, and the manager so I was trying to avoid that if possible.
Good Luck with your buys. Here's a hint. Use the Toyota website and look up all the dealers in your area. Then use the links to check each dealers inventory system. Once you find the car you want, either email the internet rep your interest OR simply call them up and ask to speak to an internet rep and ask for pricing. It's much easier for you if you have the print-out w/ the car's stock number. This saves you from going to all the dealers looking for the mythical dream car
I apprciate your comments. I was curious about the "house sale," too, because I had never heard of it. I found that reference on the MotleyFool.com web site. I'm guessing that it probably applies to Ford and GM dealers who actually sell "fleets" of vehicles to police deparments, electric utilities, etc.
I think you have to look at "reasonableness" from an economics perspective. Since new car sales prices are negotiated, whether an offer is "unreasonably" high or low is just a matter of opinion. (My elderly in-laws recently paid almost $2K over Edmund's TMV for a Chevrolet, which I'm sure the salesman thought was perfectly reasonable.) It's "reasonable" to both buyer and seller when they agree on a price. Competition is in the buyer's best interest. Also, labels don't mean anything. You can call it a "fleet sale," "internet sale," or whatever. I'm still going to keep my eye on the bottom line.
I am also in the Philly area and am in the market for the exact van you purchased (LE7 with Pkg.#7 and Z1). Can you email me the details of your deal and where you purchased if you didn't go through Team Toyota? My email is available in my profile. Thanks in advance!
jbp3: Give me a break. I'm sure most of the people reading this board work hard for their money too, and have just as much right to try to keep it in their pockets as you have to try to earn it from them. We are all searching for the fair market value. If people offer you too little, then don't sell them the car. Of course, if you do that, you risk earning nothing from them instead of less than you were hoping for. Isn't capitalism great?
I live in northern Alabama. All I see around here are vehicles that have come through the SE Toyota distributors. What's the closest state that isn't affiliated with SE Toyota?
I, as a customer, am not concerned in the least with how you make your living, nor should I be...that's between you and your dealership. If you can't build enough "value" into a vehicle to entice a customer to make what you feel is a "reasonable" offer, well, who's fault is that?
This thread really belongs in "Smart Shopper," perhaps under "Inconsiderate Customers" or "Inconsiderate Salespeople" so the Sienna prices thread remains relatively on-topic.
I'm from Tampa Bay, Florida and I just went and test drove the Highlander today. It wasn't what I thought it would be (transmission shifted strange, so I was ready to walk away when the salesman showed me a Toyota Sienna CE. While it doesn't have every available bell and whistle, it does have enough to make this a great vehicle. I love the feel and the smooth ride. I am still amazed at all the neat touches (I love the gear shift knob -- it's cute). It is fantastic so far, hope it stays that way as this is my first Toyota (I've always been a Dodge Ram Conversion Van or caravan person before).
My van came equiped at a out the door price of $25000 ($500 trade in payoff included) with:
Towing Package ABS Brakes Tire Pressure Warning Indicator Color Keyed Exterior (Blue Mirage Metallic) Manual adjust seats (would rather have had power, but these adjusted easily) Dual A/C Three row seats (60/40 split/stow) Second row captains chairs Cassette/CD Player Rear defogger Keyless Entry Conversation Mirror Tilt Steering (with Cruise) Power windows / mirrors
Ok, first I would like to say how I admire the fact that you put your name at the bottom of you listing. You get some points in my book for that and some credibility
Next week I am going to buy two toyotas. one will be a Sienna and the other will hopefully be a Prius (order - put name on list, what ever). I am going to contact just about every dealer in VA/MD/DC/WV that I can to offer this sale to them. Best price wins.
This should be a win-win situation. If a dealer can /should only give MSRP than they won't get the deal and I will move on (I can get that from my local dealer). I won't waste their time pushing lower, and I won't let them waste my time pushing higher. And so I will progress through the list and take note on who is naughty or nice. No one dealer should offer a deal they can't live with. And I won't accept any offer I can't live with (MSRP or HIGHER). If no one dealer can offer the van I am looking for at a price I can live with, then I will move to my Honda list. How do you feel about doing business this way?
I am looking to buy a LE with the BW package on Tues of next week. I am contacting many Toyota dealers in my state and local states (VA/MD/DC/WV)this monday and finalizing by Tue. I am interested in also getting a Prius (stop laughing) with package 7. If you are outside of this area but could provide a competitive bid, feel free to contact me. I have made my email address public until Tuesday next week. I wouldn't mind traveling to save big cash. Thanks for your consideration.
I live in the Chicago suburb area and there is one dealer willing to offer 4% over the invoice + TDA for the 2004 Sienna LE with BW (7) and the CF for about 26150. Is that a good price?
Do I have to pay for the TDA? I called around the area and it seems to me that is a good price from other dealers. Your opinion appreciated.
"I live in the Chicago suburb area and there is one dealer willing to offer 4% over the invoice + TDA for the 2004 Sienna LE with BW (7) and the CF for about 26150. Is that a good price?
Do I have to pay for the TDA? I called around the area and it seems to me that is a good price from other dealers. Your opinion appreciated."
My response:
Of course you don't HAVE to pay the TDA; Edmund's invoice + 4% is sufficiently generous that your salesman shouldn't insist you also pay additional costs, like the TDA, on top of that. See my post #2623.
The dealership wouldn't insist you also pay TDA if you bought at MSRP, would it? The important point is this: Edmunds' invoice + 4% should be more than enough to pay the additional charges that Edmunds' pricing doesn't include (like TDA), and still leave a healthy profit to the dealership, not even taking into account the profit in the holdback.
My advice, based on an Edmund's invoice price of $24,856 for an LE 7 with BW and CF pkgs., including a $540 destination charge (my computation - substitute the dest. charge to your area): offer $25,750 (Edmunds' invoice + ~3.6%; if you think that's too much, use your own mark-up) and make it clear that "My offer is straightword and I believe it to be fair and reasonable. It also leaves no money on the table." You can also say that "I have no intention of going back and forth with offers and counteroffers. That's a waste of everyone's time." If your salesman counters and won't budge (i.e., will let you leave on your offer), consider increasing it, but only once and only by a small amount, say $100, even if you are thousands of dollars apart (HONESTLY). If you get to that point don't say "I'll increase my offer by $100." That looks cheap. Say, instead "I'm willing to be flexible and make one and only one counteroffer of $25,850. That offer is final."
And never, never, never agree to "split the difference." When the dealership say that - even if you are thousands apart - it almost assuredly will sell the vehicle to you at your price (honestly, again).
You'd be surprised at how many dealerships will accept offers like that, regardless of what your salesman initially says to you or offers. Remember, there's always a sale and there's never a sale. To get a truly good deal you HAVE to ask for it (firmly, but nicely, of course).
"....My elderly in-laws recently paid almost $2K over Edmund's TMV for a Chevrolet, which I'm sure the salesman thought was perfectly reasonable...."
Yep, and very sorry to hear it. Many years ago, in a period of rapidly rising gas prices, a colleague of mine at work told me that she and her husband had just purchased a hot selling, gas-miserly tin can for $2K over MSRP. When I asked her why they paid so much, her response was that her husband didn't want to be confrontational. Sad.
Many dealers - including at least one that lurks on this board - argue that when a customer drives away happy, he(she) has gotten a good deal. The logic of that argument is horribly flawed.
I don't think there's an official invoice price for dealer-installed leather seats. XLE package #3 is basically leather seats. MSRP for #3 is $1,630 and invoice is $1,304, according to Siennaclub.org. I can't imagine the cost to the dealer would be substantially different from that--maybe another $100 for the 8th seat.
I knew someone who had leather seats installed by the dealer on an LE a few years ago. The job was actually done by a local upholstery shop. The grade of leather may have been superior to the factory leather because it was very soft. If the dealer is going to have a local upholstery shop do the job from scratch, you may want to specify the highest grade of leather.
As our host Steve says, focus only on the out the door price+tax+tags. The dealership then loses other ways of sneaking in fees to make additional profit. When I bought my car last week, I had negotiated an out the door price and at the last moment the dealership tried to sneak in a $100 processing fee. Their rationale: "everyone has to pay it". I politely said good luck to them and walked away, but the salesman called me later in the day and honored their original offer.
PS: Checkout autofair.com in NH. They have some very good deals posted on the web for LE with Package 7.
Live in CT and visited 2 toyota dealers today - both had $4500 - $5000 market adjustments on Siennas. Outrageous - are other areas seeing this too?
I've noticed that Carmax in Baltimore has tons of Siennas - at about $1500 under MSRP. Its worth the drive down to get those prices...but will see how the dealers here react...
Rickpct, which dealers in CT did you visit and for which model were they applying the market adjustment to?
I bought an XLE FWD with package 12 at the beginning of this month for more than 2K below MSRP. There were many dealers at that time that were willing to discount at least something...The only dealer I experienced market adjustments from was Toyota of Wallingford.
I would suggest contacting Hartford Toyota as they have a good inventory of LE FWD's, XLE FWD's and XLE Limited FWD & AWD.
Also, depending on which model you are looking for, Middletown Toyota has 8 - 10 LE FWD's sitting on their lot, so they should be willing to discount.
Stopped by Toyota of Westport and Colonial in Milford today. At both dealerships, next to the sticker there was an additional sticker that detailed some dealer added options plus the Market Adjustment - $5000 @ Colonial, and $4500 at Westport. The adjustments were for ALL models - LE, XLE, etc. I'm looking for an LE with Package #7 (like everyone else...)
I suspect location makes a big difference here - I expected Westport to have a higher price - since everything in Westport is pricey...clearly need to shop around some more - had some free time today so I was looking around.
Just finished the paperwork to purchase a White LE model with Option Package #7 for about $1,900 off the MSRP (or about $600 over invoice). The price I paid $25,784 + Tax & License. I think I got a pretty good deal on it especially since I did not have to haggle or negotiate for the price. Pick up the van in a couple of days when it arrives !
According to Edmunds, the invoice for the XLE with pkg 9 is $28,216. Does the $30,200 include TDA? TDA is a mandatory fee to the dealer, so it should be added to invoice to get a true benchmark. The amount for TDA varies. If TDA is included and it's $600, then you are paying $1,384 over invoice. While some on this board are paying below $1,000 over invoice, $1,384 over is not a bad price for a high demand car like the Sienna. If TDA is $300, then you are paying $1684 over invoice (around 6%)--a little high. If TDA is not included, then you are paying $1,984 over invoice--you can do better. The total dealer markup includes this amount plus the holdback (2% of base MSRP), so in the last example the total markup would be more than $2,500.
Comments
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Steve, Host
Good luck.
R
No, I am talking of 2004 Sienna. The website is actually www.eddiewigginstoyota.com. I did not actually try to build a sienna with custom options. I took one which they had in their current inventory. Mine had 16 miles on it and was in the lot for about 3 weeks. It had a spoiler and toyoguard plus which I was not keen about, but I felt I could live with it since the price was much better than what I was getting from other dealers in the Atlanta area.
"I gave dealer 2 my offer up front, told him it was fair and firm, and asked that we not go back and forth. He took the offer to the manager, and came back within a minute, with 24360! Keep in mind that the sticker was $25860 - straight MSRP, without any extra crap.
I countered with a 2nd but final offer of 24125, a $75 increase. I told him that if he came down to this price, I would buy. But then I started having pangs of guilt, that if I bought tonight, dealer 1 wouldn’t even have a chance to negotiate on a car we actually wanted more. So I told dealer 2 that instead of completing the deal, I would come back tomorrow, when I could inspect the car in daylight. Bad thing to say to a someone intent on selling, as dealer 2 surely was. He went to his manager and immediately came back and agreed to my counteroffer. I again stated my reservations, and the salesman cut the price, without the aid of his manager, to my original offer!
I had now spent 20 minutes at the table, and was feeling guilty about the whole thing. Even though there was an arguably good deal on the table, I still felt that I should give dealer 1 a chance. I was doubly confused at how easily I was getting this deal. I tried to graciously get us out of there, when dealer 2 did something I have never seen any car salesman do, and probably never will again.
Dealer 2 cut my original offer by about $200 and asked if that would work, pending his manager’s approval. Thirty seconds later he came back with the new lower figure. It’s now 9:20, and we’re done! What’s wrong with this picture?"
My response:
Nothing...and, yes, a little ambivalence can work to your advantage. I haven't tried that approach while buying, though. I doubt I could pull it off as adeptly as you did!!
Anyone else know a good dealer or contact?
The kicker is they have the colors we want here in town.
Thanks,
Sean
tdoh- my quotes for $500 over are for the xle limited with packages #4 or 5 (i am now up to 4 dealers now). Additionally i have seen a great number of AWD's too around the Bay and i believe you can get those for the same price.. Just expand your search area and blast out alot of emails and be very clear what your offer is.
Best of luck.
"You forgot to include the price for the running boards, which I'm guessing runs about $480 invoice...;-)"
Yup, I didn't include the cost of the running boards. Sorry for the oversight. I presume they are an accessory item, since I do not see them in any of the option packages. I also don't know how to get invoice prices on accessories. (Perhaps someone can enlighten us!)
"In any case, the reality is that his offer was $38883, which is roughly $2000 over invoice when TDA/MAF is included...still about $2800 below MSRP. Based on your example, I should offer no more than $38000 (your $37500 + RB) for it? Sounds good to me...now only if there was a dealer who'd go for it, keeping in mind I'm asking for the top-of-the-line XLE Limited AWD model rather than the more plentiful CE/LE models."
Essentially, yes. Despite my mistake in excluding the cost of running boards, I stand by the basic elements of the computations I outlined in #2805. What I've said - repeatedly in this forum - is that you should be able to buy a vehicle selling well (like the Sienna) at less than Edmund's invoice + 4% (5% if you are feeling generous). At least that should be your goal, and that goes for XLE Limited's. (If you think 4% is too much, then substitute your own mark-up - your decision.) If you can't, despite your best efforts, then I have also suggested waiting until supply from the manufacturer better matches demand.
In today's market an offer of (Edmunds') invoice + 4% should be enough that your salesman doesn't insist you pay additional charges that Edmunds' pricing excludes, like TDA (the regional advertising fee). If you are asked to, then refuse.
Of course, not all dealerships will take such offers. However, it has been my experience that many will and you'd be surprised at how much a dealership will bend if you make a firm offer and stand by your price - even when there are only one or two vehicles in a particular model in inventory.
Could you please let me know which dealer you deal with to get you final deal?-- Thanks!
Thanks!
I shopped the Sienna for a while in Richmond, VA and finally ended up paying invoice + 4% for a 2004 Sienna LE 7, w/option package #8 in Silver Shadow. I shopped this deal for a while. I could not do better in the time frame I had available. If I had longer to shop I possibly could have done a little better.
I had two dealers in the area tell me that it was MSRP only, no dealing. It should be noted that there are a lot of ways for a dealership to make money when you buy a new car. If you buy gap insurance, credit insurance, extended warranty or a service plan, the dealership makes a hefty commission on any of these items. You may have not have gotten as good a deal on the van as you thought.
Of all the extras offered at the time of purchase, the only one I will consider will be the extended warranty. The finance manager at the dealership I purchased my van from said that I can buy the extended warranty from them at any time before the existing warranty expired. This is important. I have 3 years or 36,000 miles to determine if I want the extended warranty. Of course, I will wait to see what type of service I need under the existing warranty to make a decision. I was not aware that you could purchase this warranty after the initial purchase. The more complex your vehicle, a Sienna with many options at all is complex, the more sense it makes to purchase an extended warranty.
In my final deal, the dealer offered 4% above invoice. His offer for my trade-in was a bit above any other offers. He also offered me a very, very favorable interest rate in financing. The interest rate he offered me saveg me over $600 over the life of the loan over any other interest rate offered by any other bank/credit union/ dealership that I researched. I researched many. This is worth noting.
Needless to say, I am thrilled with the van. I never thought I would be excited about a mini-van.
I was considering SUVs. I already have one four-wheel drive so I did not need another. While shopping I noted that a mini-van cannot be topped in passenger room, cargo room, comfort or cost by most any SUV.
I'm in Houston area, what price is reasonble for that order? thanks, happy holiday.
Posting email addresses in the discussions is an invitation for spam.
Steve, Host
First let me say thanks for saving me from the MSRP market manipulation. Dealers try to brainwash you into saying you can't get a deal. You guys opened my eyes to a "deal" being an okay thing to ask for.
Anyhow. I sent out a TON of emails to pretty much the entire state of GA, about 50 and some in AL and NC. I got a bunch of immediate MSRP replies from almost every one. Then about 7 replies with slightly below MSRP by about $400-600, then about 7 with real deals that were trying to win my business. I shopped my tradein this way and using a website to show pictures of the car was able to get tradein numbers and a good deal from 4 of the dealers. So in the end it came down to the best of 4, factoring in distance to the dealer.
In general ALL atlanta dealers would not deal at all until the very very end when they realized I was going elsewhere. Right at the end dealers that said "we can sell MSRP all day long so we don't drop our price" were trying to win my business and drop to 5-6% over invoice. Some got close to 4% but had lousy trade in numbers.
Here are the numbers and the dealers. This is for a xle-limited
Town & Country, NC. 30,992 but they must have made a mistake (below invoice!) and then never would return my call.
Serra Toyota, AL. +console +toyaguard, matts. 32,300. tradein 19
Butler Toyoa, GA. +console +toyaguard, matts, threshold, headphones, 33,900. tradein 22,4
Cherokee County, GA. (last minute dealing after the original MSRP shoveoff) +matts, +console 33,988 tradein 18
Savannah Toyota, GA. +tray, running boards, s/r deflector, carpets, wireless, toyaguard. 34,400. ($1000 over invoice) tradein 21,4
Bohn Bros, LA and Thomasville, GA had best deals but too far of a drive. 2% over invoice, and 32,490 for each of those guys. Never responded on tradein quote.
I traded in a 99 bmw 540iT and so it was a huge factor. was offered between 18 and 21 and one at 22,4. Went with the 22,4 offer and Butler Toyota because they would offer a fair price for the car. Plus the guy was really nice and seemed very fair. Kelly blue book "good" tradein, whereas most others lowballed it like crazy, even carmax at 20k even though they said it was in excellent shape in their report. 2400 below good rating for an excellent car? They're wacked.
Recommendations:
I highly recommend Serra Toyota, and Butler.
Strong recommend Savannah but they had a little know-it-all attitude but hit $1000 over invoice immediately and decent trade in.
Reserved recommend Sandy Springs, Hank Aaron, Cherokee County, Team Toyota as it seemed you had to be almost buying another vehicle before they'd give you any slack. Still came in low on trade in and reluctantly dropped price late in the game.
Hope this helps someone... Givin back.
My advice with the trade in is make a website with pictures of your car and use that to get the best tradein. I drove down to Macon in my bmw 540, drove home in a minivan...no cheating or last minute slippery numbers.
Sean
seems like at least 30,680+540 deliv, +575 admin. I was scrounging for 2% above the
I'm not sure if it's the truth or not. It may be as no one could touch 2% of 31225.
S
Next time, shop Tennessee too (kidding!).
Congrats on the new Sienna. This is the first time I've noticed a member getting the dealer trade-in valued and sold via pics over the net. Nice work!
Steve, Host
Just some thoughts from the other side of the table.
John Perry
Searching around all the dealers in the area, they were one of 2 dealers with that model. The internet rep also showed me stats that showed that Toyota only makes about 4% out of their entire line for this month in this AWD model and package for the Mid-Atlantic region. 355 Toyota also offered some good deals, however, they didn't have any in stock and didn't have any coming until January. The 12 dealers I spoke with in the area wouldn't give me any deals lower than MSRP. One gave me $50 off and the rest wouldn't budge. The guys at Alexandria Toyota not only gave me a good deal, they also threw in the freight charge as well. Needless to say, the deal was done about 15 minutes after showing up at the dealer. My prior experience with 355 Toyota was the usual 3-4 hour marathon between the me, the sales rep, and the manager so I was trying to avoid that if possible.
Good Luck with your buys. Here's a hint. Use the Toyota website and look up all the dealers in your area. Then use the links to check each dealers inventory system. Once you find the car you want, either email the internet rep your interest OR simply call them up and ask to speak to an internet rep and ask for pricing. It's much easier for you if you have the print-out w/ the car's stock number. This saves you from going to all the dealers looking for the mythical dream car
Good Luck
DizzyK2
I think you have to look at "reasonableness" from an economics perspective. Since new car sales prices are negotiated, whether an offer is "unreasonably" high or low is just a matter of opinion. (My elderly in-laws recently paid almost $2K over Edmund's TMV for a Chevrolet, which I'm sure the salesman thought was perfectly reasonable.) It's "reasonable" to both buyer and seller when they agree on a price. Competition is in the buyer's best interest. Also, labels don't mean anything. You can call it a "fleet sale," "internet sale," or whatever. I'm still going to keep my eye on the bottom line.
This thread really belongs in "Smart Shopper," perhaps under "Inconsiderate Customers" or "Inconsiderate Salespeople" so the Sienna prices thread remains relatively on-topic.
I'm from Tampa Bay, Florida and I just went and test drove the Highlander today. It wasn't what I thought it would be (transmission shifted strange, so I was ready to walk away when the salesman showed me a Toyota Sienna CE. While it doesn't have every available bell and whistle, it does have enough to make this a great vehicle. I love the feel and the smooth ride. I am still amazed at all the neat touches (I love the gear shift knob -- it's cute). It is fantastic so far, hope it stays that way as this is my first Toyota (I've always been a Dodge Ram Conversion Van or caravan person before).
My van came equiped at a out the door price of $25000 ($500 trade in payoff included) with:
Towing Package
ABS Brakes
Tire Pressure Warning Indicator
Color Keyed Exterior (Blue Mirage Metallic)
Manual adjust seats (would rather have had power, but these adjusted easily)
Dual A/C
Three row seats (60/40 split/stow)
Second row captains chairs
Cassette/CD Player
Rear defogger
Keyless Entry
Conversation Mirror
Tilt Steering (with Cruise)
Power windows / mirrors
Next week I am going to buy two toyotas. one will be a Sienna and the other will hopefully be a Prius (order - put name on list, what ever). I am going to contact just about every dealer in VA/MD/DC/WV that I can to offer this sale to them. Best price wins.
This should be a win-win situation. If a dealer can /should only give MSRP than they won't get the deal and I will move on (I can get that from my local dealer). I won't waste their time pushing lower, and I won't let them waste my time pushing higher. And so I will progress through the list and take note on who is naughty or nice. No one dealer should offer a deal they can't live with. And I won't accept any offer I can't live with (MSRP or HIGHER). If no one dealer can offer the van I am looking for at a price I can live with, then I will move to my Honda list. How do you feel about doing business this way?
http://www.hoovers.com/jm-family-enterprises/--ID__40247--/free-c- o-factsheet.xhtml
Gulf States Toyota states:
http://www.hoovers.com/gulf-states-toyota/--ID__40193--/free-co-f- actsheet.xhtml
Do I have to pay for the TDA? I called around the area and it seems to me that is a good price from other dealers. Your opinion appreciated.
Also, what is invoice cost on "Extra Mileage Package A" (option AO), which carries an MSRP of $704.00?
Send me an e-mail for info on a dealer in the Midwest that is offering a better deal. This was referred to my by another Edmund Poster.
My e-mail is active in my profile, just double-click njbaran99
I spoke to the same guy in Chicago, I think and he mentioned $331. That is what this other said it was as well.
"I live in the Chicago suburb area and there is one dealer willing to offer 4% over the invoice + TDA for the 2004 Sienna LE with BW (7) and the CF for about 26150. Is that a good price?
Do I have to pay for the TDA? I called around the area and it seems to me that is a good price from other dealers. Your opinion appreciated."
My response:
Of course you don't HAVE to pay the TDA; Edmund's invoice + 4% is sufficiently generous that your salesman shouldn't insist you also pay additional costs, like the TDA, on top of that. See my post #2623.
The dealership wouldn't insist you also pay TDA if you bought at MSRP, would it? The important point is this: Edmunds' invoice + 4% should be more than enough to pay the additional charges that Edmunds' pricing doesn't include (like TDA), and still leave a healthy profit to the dealership, not even taking into account the profit in the holdback.
My advice, based on an Edmund's invoice price of $24,856 for an LE 7 with BW and CF pkgs., including a $540 destination charge (my computation - substitute the dest. charge to your area): offer $25,750 (Edmunds' invoice + ~3.6%; if you think that's too much, use your own mark-up) and make it clear that "My offer is straightword and I believe it to be fair and reasonable. It also leaves no money on the table." You can also say that "I have no intention of going back and forth with offers and counteroffers. That's a waste of everyone's time." If your salesman counters and won't budge (i.e., will let you leave on your offer), consider increasing it, but only once and only by a small amount, say $100, even if you are thousands of dollars apart (HONESTLY). If you get to that point don't say "I'll increase my offer by $100." That looks cheap. Say, instead "I'm willing to be flexible and make one and only one counteroffer of $25,850. That offer is final."
And never, never, never agree to "split the difference." When the dealership say that - even if you are thousands apart - it almost assuredly will sell the vehicle to you at your price (honestly, again).
You'd be surprised at how many dealerships will accept offers like that, regardless of what your salesman initially says to you or offers. Remember, there's always a sale and there's never a sale. To get a truly good deal you HAVE to ask for it (firmly, but nicely, of course).
"....My elderly in-laws recently paid almost $2K over Edmund's TMV for a Chevrolet, which I'm sure the salesman thought was perfectly reasonable...."
Yep, and very sorry to hear it. Many years ago, in a period of rapidly rising gas prices, a colleague of mine at work told me that she and her husband had just purchased a hot selling, gas-miserly tin can for $2K over MSRP. When I asked her why they paid so much, her response was that her husband didn't want to be confrontational. Sad.
Many dealers - including at least one that lurks on this board - argue that when a customer drives away happy, he(she) has gotten a good deal. The logic of that argument is horribly flawed.
In fact, it's pathetic.
I knew someone who had leather seats installed by the dealer on an LE a few years ago. The job was actually done by a local upholstery shop. The grade of leather may have been superior to the factory leather because it was very soft. If the dealer is going to have a local upholstery shop do the job from scratch, you may want to specify the highest grade of leather.
PS: Checkout autofair.com in NH. They have some very good deals posted on the web for LE with Package 7.
Steve, Host
Live in CT and visited 2 toyota dealers today - both had $4500 - $5000 market adjustments on Siennas. Outrageous - are other areas seeing this too?
I've noticed that Carmax in Baltimore has tons of Siennas - at about $1500 under MSRP. Its worth the drive down to get those prices...but will see how the dealers here react...
I bought an XLE FWD with package 12 at the beginning of this month for more than 2K below MSRP. There were many dealers at that time that were willing to discount at least something...The only dealer I experienced market adjustments from was Toyota of Wallingford.
I would suggest contacting Hartford Toyota as they have a good inventory of LE FWD's, XLE FWD's and XLE Limited FWD & AWD.
Also, depending on which model you are looking for, Middletown Toyota has 8 - 10 LE FWD's sitting on their lot, so they should be willing to discount.
Good luck.
Stopped by Toyota of Westport and Colonial in Milford today. At both dealerships, next to the sticker there was an additional sticker that detailed some dealer added options plus the Market Adjustment - $5000 @ Colonial, and $4500 at Westport. The adjustments were for ALL models - LE, XLE, etc. I'm looking for an LE with Package #7 (like everyone else...)
I suspect location makes a big difference here - I expected Westport to have a higher price - since everything in Westport is pricey...clearly need to shop around some more - had some free time today so I was looking around.
Thanks!
I am getting Sienna with option #9 in Cincinnati for $30,200 . Pleaselet me know if this is a good price or the dealer is charging me higher
Thanks