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regards,
kyfdx
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- What is the deal with the "two pulls?" When you stop the car, one press on the central locking button unlocks all the doors. In every car I know of, if the doors are locked, you can't ever open them just by pulling the lever. You have to at least pull up on the locking button, or whatever. Yes, you can sometimes have a car set up to automatically unlock when you turn the ignition off, but I know that my wife considers this a security risk.
- How often do you need to open the trunk without getting out of the car anyway? If you're out of the car, you just pull up on the lip where the release button is. My A4 had no remote trunk operation at all -- just a mechanical pushbutton -- and I never thought anything of it.
- I will agree with you on the temperature alarm -- it's annoying and is still beeping at me every day recently here in Michigan. However, my owner's manual says that the display returns to the previous setting after the alarm finishes. I usually leave mine on temp and display the time on the radio, so haven't seen if this is how it works or not.
- Your attempts to impress us with having driven Porsches, owned MBs, etc., and referring to 325s as "cheaper cars" have exactly the opposite effect, at least for me. 'Nuff said on that.
Oh wait, I take that back, my mom's 1980s Z28 required that you unlock some silly button below the handle. Lame design. But then again everything about that car, save for fishtailing in the rain, was lame.
IMO, if you are getting a 3-series mostly for its luxury, you'd be better off with a Lexus, Acura or Infiniti, which offer more for the money in terms of luxury.
All those buyers make BMW a profitable company and allow them to keep making the cars we want.
regards,
kyfdx
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And I noticed some of 2004 used 330Ci are cheaper than they should be.. reason? did the 2004 style fail to attract ppl? I personally like the air dam on 2003 better than 2004 coupe. But back lights are prettier in 2004.
Right now, I found a 2004, silver 330Ci with premium & Sports pkgs, navigation, M3 wheels, tinted window, performance tires, and another set of all season tires, 12,000 miles for $36,500. what you guys think about the price? cheap? any of your thoughts are appreciated
regards,
kyfdx
P.S.: IMO, the sport package on the 325i is worth $1400 just for the improvement in looks.
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regards,
kyfdx
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The Camry has 210 HP, weighs a little less than an auto 325 and pulls ~.80 g on the skidpad. The auto 325i non-sport pulls ~ .81 g. I am sure that it handles a little better because of better weight distribution and suspension but not by much. I have had auto non-sport 325i loaners a few times and they are very boring to drive with little feedback by comparison to the sport pack. Not everyone needs the sport pack, of course but don't fool yourselves that it handles MUCH better than most other cars in its class.
(18 events a year... I think that makes you pretty experienced, if not a race driver)
regards,
kyfdx
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The original comment was intended to make the point that automatic 325is aren't fun to drive - that's an opinion and all opinions are worth what we paid for them. Take it or leave it, it's the reader's choice.
Discussing whether the 325i is "fun to drive" would be appropriate, but getting into a defense of the Camry here in this dedicated 3-Series discussion is not.
So let's move on from here.
Thanks.
Let me ask you, how much do you have to spend in a Japanese luxury car in order to get the charcoal filter/auto recirculate & the memory driver seat? & how about a supportive front PASSENGER seat w/ adjustable height & angle & even lumbar HEIGHT? Not the TL & most Infiniti’s. Plus the extendable cushion length? The only other car I recall has it is the optional seat in a Mercedes S-class. & Our 325i auto w/ $2k worth of seat options still only costs about $32k.
Besides, nobody else rides as comfortably as the regular-suspension 325i w/ comparable handling/steering. & neither can other Euro-designs like the Jetta or the A4.
Back in '99, my immediate impression from test driving the regular-suspension E46 323i w/ 15" alloys(C&D comparison's 2nd place behind the A4 quattro due to lack of available 16" for the suspension) was "I would buy this car for the ride comfort alone!"
"An automatic non-sport 325i does not handle much better than a Camry and is NO more fun to drive either. And that's probably OK with 90% of the people out there."
When C&D complained about the TL's numb steering, CR still found its steering communication much better than the ES330. & the rear-strut-handling Camry's steering is hardly any better than even the ES330!
The reason we have to give up our newly purchased numb-steering TSX & pass it on to the 16-yr teenager at home is b/c while the TSX has high handling limit(especially when cornering hard over bumps) that rides very unrelaxingly taut, the steering communication(weighing difference during the tire-grip change) is still numb that never made any of us drivers(except me) confident enough doing near the limit.
That's why we might as well lease this less-reliable German car, w/ a more communicative steering while having a lower handling limit, & are excited about it! Yesterday, I drove the TSX to the Hermosa Beach BMW dealer again, & boy that test-drive route we did earlier w/ the regular-suspension 325i was horribly giggly this time!
& the 3-series w/ the LOWERED sport suspension is a better compromise than the regular suspension only on relatively smooth road/track 'cause it can't even soak up deep bumps as well as the TSX, which does a good job flying in & out of driveways diagonally.
So the 325i w/ regular suspension has the best ride/handling compromise of all cars except the old E36 w/ the regular suspension, which comes w/ MORE steering communication than the E46 even w/ sport suspension!
If the 3-series's sport suspension is only firmer but NOT LOWERED, then I might prefer the firmer suspension 'cause you want to be able to not having to SLOW DOWN when cornering hard when the road turns bumpy in the real world, not just on the track.
So I think this comfy 325i w/ the base long-spring suspension is comparable to the Jag X-Type sport & C-class sport even for handling.
The std 4-spoke steering is also leather wrapped. Funny thing is, unlike me, my bro likes the looks of the 4-spoke better than the 3-spoke & prefers the 8-o'clock spoke to to be held on to. I don't like the 4-spoke's 9:30 spoke compare to the 3-spoke's 9:00 spoke, which is lower & still works for the turn signal. But since, unlike the new Volvo S40, the 325i's door armrest is too low to rest my elbow while holding on to the 9:00 position, so I will need the 8:00 & 4:00 spokes from the 4-spoke steering when my elbows can still rest on the sport seat's side bolsters(if I'm not wearing a thick jacket). Also, the buttons on the std 4-spoke steering are easier to reach w/o taking your hand off the steering rim.
The point is that only the 325i w/o sport suspension can be equipped w/ both the big-bolster sport seats & the 4-spoke steering wheel. ;-)
SULEV is still optional in CA. It's a no-charge option anyway. & the 325i's imported from S Africa has auto tranny made in France & don't come w/ SULEV.
Salesman gave me his car while the car was serviced...it was 330i with M sport package...I was really glad to get my car back. That suspension is for kids and pretend race drivers....it feels like driving on flat tires !
By the way what tires did your car come with ?
Regards,
Webby
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Wow, i'd much rather own a Jetta GLI or a GTI or a TSX over the 325i. I've not driven a TL but I'm fairly certain I'd prefer it over a 325i sport or no sport, manual or no manual. But then again my test drives of 325i's and subsequent drives of my bro-in-laws 325i manual/sport have shown me I wouldn't buy that car. Unless it stickered as optioned for 25k.
If the 3-series's sport suspension is only firmer but NOT LOWERED, then I might prefer the firmer suspension 'cause you want to be able to not having to SLOW DOWN when cornering hard when the road turns bumpy in the real world, not just on the track.
What? My 330i Perf Pack is lowered even more than a standard 330i sport and I've never had a problem with its 18s and the suspension soaking up road irregularities. If anything the Performance Package suspension is too soft. No slowing when coming to corners, push in rotate and explode - or take off as best is possible with BMW's torque-less, overrated inline 6.
So I think this comfy 325i w/ the base long-spring suspension is comparable to the Jag X-Type sport & C-class sport even for handling.
I guess. All those cars are worthless though, imho. C class is a flat out joke inside and out and the X has a horrid AWD system and a worse engine.
$995 beige leatherette pwr seats w/ memory
creakid1 Apr 28, 2004 4:11am
I was just referring that we didn't bother to spend another $1450 for the leather but we also don't want to be stupid enough to get the burning black leatherette under the California sun. ;-)
So if these X-type & C-class w/ sport suspension are still worthless, then how about w/o?
Not sure too many people are quite as obsessive as you are about seats. But the best 3 Series seats come with the Sport Pkg.
Think most buyers view luxury more in terms of things other than seats. Things like 6-disc CD changers, stereo upgrades, leather, etc. Heck, BMW charges for metallic paint, not to mention leather and sunroof. There isn't hardly anything luxury that is standard on the E46 3 Series. And important things like HID headlights are also optional.
Your average BMW dealer orders hsi 325i for lot with Prem Pkg, leather, sunroof, metallic paint, etc. Most have MSRPs around $34-36,000 range. Just price and equipment compare a 325i to an IS300. You can get a lot more for the latter for less. Except maybe the seats!
Riez: 325 hardly needs LSD any more than IS300. I do agree that a 3'er without sport pack and stick is a waste.
Blueguy: Funny you should put the sticker for a 325 sport w/stick at $25K, then you would buy it. That's almost exactly what I paid for one Military Sales in Germany in 1999. Made me realize how much of a premium BMW gets for it's cars over here. When I compaired what I paid to some poor [non-permissible content removed] in the USA it came out to roughly $7K difference. And that's on the lowest 3. 7's must net those crafty Germans a boatload of cash.....
I went through this on the m/c forums with airheads vs. oilheads vs. K-bikes vs. cruisers. It's too bad, because otherwise it's a great potential forum. See ya around!
ksso
Besides, the whole sport package thing goes on at every BMW forum. You can't discuss your car without running into that.
regards,
kyfdx
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How much can I expect to pay for 4 tires (stock 16" conti-contacts on a 325i)?
Thanks.
While I agree, that the torque is a bit lacking at the lower end, I do find this to be one of the smoothest six cylinder engines I've ever driven.
Do you know of a more preferable [NA] engine?
My limited experience indicates the following:
- Nissan's VQ has tons of torque, but it feels like a truck engine (no top-end);
- Honda makes great four cylinder engines but the low-end torque is lacking across their line-up;
- At one point, I had a Toyota with an I6 and that was pretty impressive (strong throughout) but the fuel mileage was weak
Check tirerack.com, but at a local dealer figure around $550 out the door.
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You can buy the TouringContacts for $60-70 per tire.
The pricing of the SportContacts and SportContact 2s are much higher. There is also an ExtremeContract, which is more than the Touring but less than the Sports.
I've yet to drive the new TL so I can't comment on that engine.
For me, about 300-400 lb-ft of torque from 2k to 6k would be ideal.
Of course, keep in mind I'm never really satisfied. I could buy a house and the next day I'm wondering why it doesn't have two pools.
"Of course, keep in mind I'm never really satisfied"
You should put this disclaimer next to all your posts.
regards,
kyfdx
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My point is
our $32k 325i w/ regular suspension rides no worse than the other "limos", but can still laugh at their face when comes to handling/steering. By the way, g-force alone don't mean much, as you can always achieve it by putting on monster-size tires. & too much tire is actually no fun. That's why the Miata is so entertaining w/ LSD pwr by a little 1.8.
fjm1 Apr 29, 2004 9:10am
"Riez: 325 hardly needs LSD any more than IS300. I do agree that a 3'er without sport pack and stick is a waste."
But the IS300 needs the optional LSD badly even w/ auto(which comes WITHOUT the manual's lowered sport suspension!), as the Lexus drive-event invitation back in '01 showed how it can drift on the track. I even video taped it both from inside & outside the car.
& I think getting the E46 w/ sport suspension to ride harder & still failed to include the LSD is a waste. Didn't the E36 offer it? Or you have to go back to E30 for that?
Wonder what's gonna happen to the next 2-series. Will it get the LSD to compete w/ the IS/Miata? This coupe probably will only come w/ sport suspension, which I'll pass.
"Your average BMW dealer orders hsi 325i for lot with Prem Pkg, leather, sunroof, metallic paint, etc. Most have MSRPs around $34-36,000 range. Just price and equipment compare a 325i to an IS300. You can get a lot more for the latter for less. Except maybe the seats!"
First of all, the IS is neither quiet nor comfy riding(see C&D & CR) & C&D's first report found the suspension bottoming several times when hitting bumps at high speed. Automobile found the steering goes all vague under load as the handling gets ragged. So where's the ride/handling/steering compromise? It may still be way ahead of their own '01 ES300, but that's not saying much.
& the IS300's front seats, despite multiple adjustment even on the passenger side, are still a joke, as if the cushion support weakens at the front edge to accomodate people w/ short thighs. That's why the 3-series offers the RARE adjustable cushion length.
& the IS300 SportCross hatch's front passenger seat can't even fit a human torso when reclined due to the folding feature for the long cargo.
If all the comfort you care are luxury features like leather, moonroof, stereo, etc. for less, then there are always the Korean cars.
“creakid1... You wrote, "The only other car I recall has it is the optional seat in a Mercedes S-class. & Our 325i auto w/ $2k worth of seat options still only costs about $32k.
Not sure too many people are quite as obsessive as you are about seats. But the best 3 Series seats come with the Sport Pkg.”
That's the news. The seats alone from the Sport Pkg is now available for the "ordinary citizens", plus...
fjm1 Apr 29, 2004 9:10am
"Creakid1: I hear you about the seats. Only car I've seen that doesn't short-change the passenger. The seats in the 323 we used to own were exceptional and offered all 12 adjustment areas on BOTH sides. We cruised the Autobahn for hours...."
Not just the sport seats, but w/ the lumbar from the 330i Premium that actually goes up & down!
Cars that don't offer lumbar adjustment usually provide sufficient lumbar to begin with such as my '90 Protege LX & the old Civics. Cars like my '93 Camry SE sedan got weak lumbar b/c some other Camry's, & even the '94 SE sedan, got the adjustable lumbar. So the 3-series is seriously lacking lumbar if you don't have this option, as I find my neck resting on the headrest more naturally when my posture is pushed out by the lumbar!
& those lucky 3-series owners who got the lumbar feature are spared 'cause even the lumbar height is adjustable. & you need to change the lumbar height from time to time. Here's why. A report about 2 decades ago(I believe, from C&D) found that by changing the height of the lumbar support back & forth on a seat can reduce fatigue on long drives 'cause you don't want to lock in the same pressure point forever.
That's what's so exciting about having the more-comfy-riding "inexpensive" regular-suspension Beemer combining w/ a 1st-class seating -- a new offer in the U.S. since the February-production special-ordered 325i's.
Yep, I remember now... at one point I had a manual '91 Maxima SE... stated hp was only 190, and torque was about the same but that was a great VQ engine. Strong and smooth.
My memory was clouded as I had driven a manual G35 six months ago, and that engine reminded me of a friend's Pathfinder.
I'm not a big fan of turbos. For some reason, I don't really care for their binary nature (all or nothing)-- tested the VW 1.8T a few years ago. I even test drove a used Audi S4 (with the 2.7T) and didn't care for that either (supposed to have twin turbos, right? Course the shifter was rubbery, so that could have some bearing).
Given the variety of cars out there, I definitely prefer Honda and BMW engine designs these days (Honda less so right now, just b/c their low-end is really lacking).
I do my comparisons the old fashion way, really 3 different ways. (1) Automotive press reports. Both E46 and IS300 have gotten very good press reviews. (Have you noticed how the automotive press tends to test & rave mainly over Sport Pkg-equipped BMWs?) (2) Thorough test drives. (3) And, most valuable of all, ownership. I owned both a '98 540i6 and a '00 323ia. Both were very nice cars. (I loved my 540i6 but didn't want to risk owning a 6-yr-old BMW out of warranty so I sold her right before expiration of CPO warranty.) I traded 'em both in for IS300s, one auto (for wife) and one manual (for me). Both with optional LSD! More car for the money vs 323i/325i (e.g., more powerful engine, standard HID, metallic paint, 6-disc CD, etc). Better dealership. Build quality. Etc. (No comparison between my wife's 323ia and her IS300.) Had mine up to 125 mph yesterday for a short period time. Not quite as nice as my 540i6 was at 140 mph (but that was a $60,000 car), but close and more than enough smiles per mile!