What about applying Rain-X to the rear window? I haven't tried it yet. Some competing brands have some spray-on formulations that are easier to apply. Anyone try them?
I test drove an Envoy in early March of last year. A used 2002 Bravada we looked at had a build date of 1/01. That was a big reason we didn't look at it any further. I actually got a new one cheaper anyways. May 01 is obviously several months into the build. It must be a unique vehicle to sit around that long however.
I've got a Onyx TB LTZ and have the same problem, rear quarter panels are actually gray! I've since extended the mudflaps but the paint is bad enough it would be tough to notice any change. Any luck with a dealer fix? Mine (raines chevy in sunnyvale ca) claims that it's 'environmental damage' and they're not required to fix it. I wonder if rust through is considered an 'environmental' problem also ... in any case, if you don't have running boards, I wouldn't recommend taking a TB on sanded / heavily salted roads at speeds over 50.... still drives great though!
I purchased my Envoy March 24, 2001. So rest assured, your vehicle was built AFTER the major recall. Didn't check the build date, but it probably was Jan. or Feb. Good Luck!
I have a TB LT 2002. Look in the manual about the paint warranty coverage. You are covered 12 mo, 12,000 for any condition, including environmental.
I had a few spots show up 2-3 weeks after I took delivery. They were on my hood & roof which appeared to be chemical type spotting. When I took it to the dealer, they sort of gave the same bit, "environmental". There was also an little surface imperfection that I did not see which they said they would cover. The salesman told me that he wanted the paint shop to look at it. When the paint shop foreman took one look, he immediately said it should be redone, under warranty, without question, regardless of the surface imperfection. I had my hood and roof repainted the next week under warranty. A side note: one week after the repainting, I had a stone hit the front of the hood edge! DAMN!! A hood deflector would have been a good thing!
Tidester - Thanks, the previous postings section is working now!!!
I went all the way to the back and I guess there was a recall in April 01 for a control arm problem that was a real mess - people had to give up the cars......
My TB LTZ is two weeks old. I looked at the build date and it was 5/01! Yikes! It must have sat around a long time. It had 700 miles on it...
Do I have to worry about the control arm issue, or was it fixed by May?
Awhile back they did the TSB on the transmission and transfer case, and I didn't notice any change. This past Monday I took my Envoy SLT in for the mirror change and they performed the TSB on the Tranmission and tranfer case again and did another one, reprogramed the PCM, whatever that is. My Envoy has the 410 gears and I was getting only about 18 MPG on the highway before the reprogram. Just yesterday I took it on the highway with a head wind and three adults and got 22.2 MGP. I wonder what the change was.
Today, I was out doing some errands, when I got back in the Envoy, now the tilt steering doesn't work. The tilt button just bounces back and forth, but the steering wheel is stuck in the up position. I called to take it in, but they can't get it in today, and they said they may have to keep it a couple of day. So I guess I have to drive it like this until next week. Anybody else have this problem?
Sorry, typo on my part, I meant I put on 'extended' (as in full length) mudflaps as opposed to the molded 'just for show' mudflaps that don't appear to serve much purpose. I'll have to check on the warranty and bug the dealer again - thanks johntr
Do you mean that your TB had 700 miles on it when you got it, and they considered it new? I hope you got some sort of discount! Isn't there a mileage limit that vehicles have to fall under for them to be claimed as new? I picked up my Bravada on January 28 and it was built in August '01. It had 27 miles on it and 20 of them were from transportation from another dealer to my dealer... Even then, I told them they should have flat-beded it!
checked the manual, and it's ONLY chemical paint spotting that's covered for 12k/12mo. "Damage caused by airborne fallout (chemicals, tree sap, etc.), stones, hail, earthquake, water or flood, windstorm, lightning, the application of chemicals or sealants subsequent to manufacture, etc. is not covered." anyone know where you can get larger quantities of the touchup paint?
My Envoy was built 2/01. Picked it up 3/20/01. Had it taken from me a week later for the lower control arm recall. Didn't get it back for three weeks. It really sucked !
After the dealer performs any recall work, they will put a sticker under the hood (usually on the plastic near the fan) or on the door jam stating that the recall (campaign #) was completed and the date.
So if you buy a truck off the lot that been sitting, check for these. Being that GM stopped production of the truck for a month to figure out the fix, I would think that any car built after 5/01 should be fine.
Thanks for the info guys! I'll check under the hood and look for the sticker. I did get a good deal on the car,it was a dealer trade and they drove it up from Southern Cal to Nor. Cal.
HORRIBLE that many early buyers got stuck w/o a vehicle......
Is there an aftermaket exhaust tip for the muffler it really sticks out.....
I will ask them when I take it in next week, but a friend said that it might stand for Power train Control Module. All it states on the repair order is .4 reprogram PCM. That mileage was highway only at 65 to 70 mph. I would have driven faster, but the speed limit was 60 and my dad was looking over my shoulder. OK, I have a heavy foot. I still have to check the around town mileage, was about 13.3 MPG. Will advise when I check it out. I'm not driving it much right now, it's annoying driving with the steering wheel tilted all the way up. Debbie
FYI: My TB build date is 5-01. I ordered it a couple days after production was halted for the recall, so I know that it was built after the affected vehicles, and was not subject to the control arm recall. jim f
With 6000 miles on my envoy I have had the power steering fluid very low twice. It was checked by the dealer twice for leaks, they found nothing and noted it must just be air in the system. I have not seen fluid on the garage floor or engine smoking. Any other ideas except keep filling it up monthly.
they are the GM molded ones, which are slightly expensive(80-90 dollars)for decorations. As I told the auto body manager if they were for decoration only then the box should have stated it, remember this happened with only one trip up north-what will this thing look like after 10 years? He agreed and said they will take care of it, he is waiting for GM to come out with the licence bracket fix and will do it then--we will see!!! Haven't heard from him in 7 weeks. I extendend them by removing the orig. flaps then bolting a set of flat rubber mats to the front sides so they hang out an inch or so about half way down the side and the bottom hangs about 3in below(make sure the nuts on the back sides dont touch any metal or rust will start)only thing that shows is the head of the screw which I touched up black. Seems to be working!
I have noticed that my mileage has dropped way down in the lsat couple of months as well. HTe weahter has not been drastically different or anything else. I have been only getting aobut 12 mpg in town. I will start using the DIC to track time and miles to get a good idea of average speeds per tank to see what kind of correlation there is to that. I asked the dealer to check it out last week when I took it in for the axle squeal, but they could not find anything wrong. At least he didn't try to tell me it was acceptable.
They are ordering a new seal for the axle and will replace the seal. I may bring up the mileage thing again at that time.
today, and I went down to my local Buick-GMC dealer...after a somewhat bad experience with a Buick, I promised myself that GM would never see the likes of my pretty little rear-end forever... and then decided to give them a second chance...so I guess that makes me a hypocrite or a liar, I am not sure which...I spent 2 hours at the dealer, with a salesman on his first day, so there was no pressure as he was learning from the sales manager...I test drove an Envoy SLT and a Yukon SLE (5.3L engine)...I am "ashamed" (and surprised) to say that the vehicles seemed quite solid and well built (those who know me now I have a bias against Amercian vehicles built by unionized workers)...they both had good acceleration, and I liked the design of both...I really liked the floor shifter and hand brake on the Envoy, and I was surprised how easily ther Yukon handled, since I am accustomed to smaller vehicles...the Envoy was lower and easier to enter, a big plus, and the Yukon was roomier...if the Yukon had a fllor shifter in that console it would be super, and a hand brake would be ideal...I like the looks of the Envoy better, and wish the Yukon could have been lower and easier to enter, similar to the Explorer...since both vehicles come in a longer XL version, to rank their overall length, smallest to largest, is like so: Envoy, Yukon, Envoy XL, Yukon XL...the Yukon base is shorter than the Envoy XL...according to the sales mgr, the 5.3L engine will be placed into the Envoy XL in a few months...which might make the Envoy XL a great compromise...but take the column shifter out of the Yukon and offer a floor shifter optional, and it could be a good race...any thoughts on Envoy XL vs. standard size Yukon??? Is Yukon a proven design while Envoy still in its first year???... oh, and the dash design was really nice, now I see why many posters label the Explorer dashboard gauges as sterile and cheap...I guess what I am saying is that I was really impressed with GM, which surprises me, since I have had my personal vendetta against them for some time now...
Anyone think about using that self-adhesive clear plastic film on a section of the rear door? They make it for hoods and headlamps. Maybe a piece cut to fit the extended portion of the rear doors would do the trick. Maybe this should be offered by GM. Is anyone from GM out there listening?
I am coming out of a lease on a 99 Bravada on 3/23. Looking to replace with a 2002.
1- Edmunds review says this suv is sloppy on curves. What do you folks who have experience with the car think? I test drove and the suspension felt a bit wallowy, but I am used to driving the 99, so would expect it would feel very different at first.
2 - Engine on 2002 was very noisy in low gear when I first drove. Dealer said car was cold. After a couple of minutes, noise went away. Any similar experiences.
3 - Dealer had to do a "locate" on the car I want, and closest he could find was in Ma. I am in NY, on LI. Is he going to try to hit me for transportation costs?
4 - Dealer advised me today that if I want to take a 3/36 warranty instead of the 5/50, I can get an additional $1000 of the cost of the car.
#1. I personally don't think the handling in curves is sloppy. My previous vehicle was a '98 Explorer though so I'm not accustomed to Corvette crispness, but I've been very aggressive in the corners and one thing that puts a grin to my face is it's turning radius. I can maneuver u-turns and medians like I never could in the Explorer. I should point out I have the AWD though, in case you were test driving a 2WD there might be a difference.
#2. I can't say I've experienced that, maybe someone who has will chime in later.
#3. Indeed he likely is going to want to charge you transportation costs. I ran into this myself, but I had the luxury of having the time to factory order and wait. If your not in a rush I would suggest making a factory order, the benefits are that the destination charge is already reflected into the invoice so no extra charge there. Also when you factory order the build date for your vehicle will be after you place your order, so you will have all the up to date parts and changes that's been made to the triplets to this point, versus getting the one in MA and it may or may not be that recent of a build date. Also you don't know what condition the one in MA is in and whether it's been test drove to death with hard driving and braking without proper engine break in time. There's fewer unknowns with a factory order.
#4. That's true. You have to weigh whether you want the extended warranty or not. I haven't needed to take advantage of mine just yet with only 600 miles on mine so far, but I can tell you an extended warranty saved me thousands of dollars on my previous Explorer an I only had the Explorer for four years and only put 55,000 miles on it, so I took the extended warranty plus added an appropriate mileage increase because I'll drive more than 60,000 miles in five years.
Well that's my two cents for what it's worth. I'm sure you'll get some more responses on this subject.
Someone recently posted on the board that it states in the Bravada owners manual about lube points for the AWD system. Where, specifically, is this stated in the manual? Also, where are the grease zerks exactly? I am having difficulty finding either the manual reference or the zerks. Thanks for any help.
I buy American cars made by unionized workers and have been satisfied with GM vehicles. Also like the TB better than Envoy for style but my advice is go with the Tahoe if you need a vehicle now because GM reliability is notoriously poor during the first two years of a new model run and I would wait for the 03 TB or Envoy. This has little to do with unionized American workers because the designers and engineers are non-union.
Also, if you are concerned about safety, review the IIHS test results on the GM triplets which are not very good for a new model:
i noticed that alot of brake dust settles on wheels of my 2002 TB LTZ..........has anyone ordered the "wheel dust shields" and if so......from where?....and how did they fit, and look?
Pluto5: This is a site about the GM triplets, right? Let's all be adults and save the union/non-union rhetoric for another forum.
To the Bravada questions:
1) It is a truck. I think mine handles fine for a vehicle weighing 4700 lbs. The turning radius is quite good.
2) Sometimes the engine fan comes on when you start the vehicle. That's what the noise is. There may be a TSB out for that.
3) My Bravada came from a dealer 100 miles away and I did not pay for transportation.
4) The extended warranty is a rebate of sorts. I would not mess with it, I'd take the warranty. I was told list price on the same warranty is over $1500, so you are getting it at cost.
I would be careful about dust shields. The can limit the amount of air getting to the brakes, which could cause poor braking performance if the brakes get hot. Put a coat of wax on the wheels and hose them off occasionally, even if you don't wash the rest of the car!
would all of you trail blazer owners do me A favor and drive your trucks for about ten minutes and then find A spot where you can try to duplicate A problem that I have noticed with more than one TB after driveing put TB in park then shift to reverse back up a little then stop and shift to drive and try to accellerate quickly. does your transmission hesitate and then bang down into gear. Any help with this problem would be greatly appreciated. thanks
I know of many, many people using Kleen Wheel brand dust shields and NO one has reported any problems with brake performance....only positive reports on how well they keep the wheels clean. They can also be painted to improve appearance. On another note, the cause of the dust is the brake pads and changing to pads other than OEM, Raybestos QS for most, has cured the dust problem, improved braking and eliminated brake noise. Tim
Marsha: Unfortunately European and Japanese car manufactures spend way more on R&D and engineering than their American counterparts do. Which would explain how GM managed to build a vehicle in the early '80's that required removing the engine, in order to change the oil filter. It has nothing to do with unionized workers. That said, overall I'm happy with my TB, in spite of the "wandering mirror" problem which is also a fault of bad engineering rather than workmanship. Steve: On occasion when I have been in a rush, I also rapidly have switched from reverse to drive and then floored it. And I was met with a bang in the tranny. I've noticed on several different vehicles that the newer electronic transmissions seem to take longer to engage when switching gears. I'm not really sure if that is by design or not. But yes, my truck does it as well.
Is it unreasonable to expect a small delay when going from r to d, look at what occurs in the trans during this event, there are hydraulics involved as well as electrical commands, unless this is a 5 second delay, it shouldn't be a concern. I think given the right circumstances you probably could get any auto trans perform the same anamoly. Just some thoughts.
your comments are appreciated, as well as any future posters on the subject...my comments on unionized workers was sort of a parenthetical comment, reflecting on past posts...it was not meant to be the main thought upon which I was hoping for a reply or comparison...in fact, had I put parens around it ( ), it would not have been worth commenting upon...sorry if I seemed to mislead, never meant to do that...
There is a slight delay when I shift into any gear in my Bravada. This is normal, and I don't accelerate until I feel the truck is in gear. Reminds me of "neutral drops" when I was young. Give it some gas in neutral and drop it into drive. Bang, and you were off, hopefully not breaking anything!
any suggestions on a video system for use in the LTZ TB? the overhead console seems like the ideal spot for a monitor but where would the rest of the system be located?
My TB has the delayed engagement occasionally. My 2000 Silverado had it too. I assume it has something to do with the low (500 rpm) idle on these newer vehicles. Guess I just got used to it, and tried to give it a couple of seconds to go in gear. Still does it if I get in a hurry. jim f
My build date on my TB was 5/01. Like many others, there are holes in the front wheel wells that are not attached. On the later build models, has that been corrected?
Post 4420: Front fenders not attached to wheel wells
I gave my TB LS3 a thorough washing last weekend. The build date is 11/01. I noticed the holes too. Nothing is attached to them, but the shrowd in the wheel well is attached elsewhere. I suspect the holes are there to attach the two-tone fender flares GM puts on the LTZ. It all looks nice and tight on mine, so I am ignoring it. Who looks in there anyway?
I bought a mass-production GM SUV because it rides great, has excellent power, great features, and a state-of-the-art engine that gets better mileage than anything else in it's class. And I paid $23,100 for it. I didn't buy an Austin Martin. All-in-all It's a great truck for the money.
We just returned from a 600 mile round trip from central CA to Tahoe area with our Envoy. Went on Friday and had to endure a 5 hr. wait on US 50 to go more than 5 miles to get to the chain on area. I encountered one problem while we were waiting, the brakes started squealing when we were about a mile from the chain on area. It went away for a while and hasn't happened since. Does anyone have any ideas of what happened? The temp. was around 32 deg. F. and I put the tranny in park and turned the engine off during the long times that we didn't move.
Luckily, that was the only bad thing during our trip. This was the first time that I had driven on snow and I thought that the 4-wheel drive and snow tires did a great job (saved me from fish-tailing once). I am glad that I did not have to get out and put on chains in freezing weather.
We took our 7 year old boy with us, and to keep him busy, I bought a dc to ac converter and connected my laptop so that he could watch dvd movies or play games. I fashioned a sling, using a nylon strap and tied it around the headrest supports and placed a pillow between his lap and the computer. He didn't get too uncomfortable and enjoyed watching the movies and playing games.
Has anyone figured out a way to remove the oil filter on the 2002 Envoy without draining oil all over the engine compartment? My garage looks like a Superfund Site after oil changes. Thanks.
I had a leak with my power steering fluid in my 2002 TB LT. I immediately drove it to the dealer to inspect (only 2 miles) they refilled and made a appointment to check it the next week. I never found any fluid leaking or puddles when parked.
The repair was to replace the steering assembly, as stated on the repair work order. I don't know what all that involved, but they did it in one day.
Sounds like you had a blast! In regards to the squealing, there have been previous posts of people having the axle seals replaced (my included) on the Envoy and TrailBlazer. Did the squeal occur as you were driving and applying brakes? Or while cruising? My symptom was while drive above 20 mph and would not always occur when I drove, but mostly when it was cold (20-35 deg F). Braking or engine speed would not affect the volume or frequency of the squeal.
HI all! We just purchased an LS TB with 4wd. My only complaint is the stereo. The music sounds as if it comes from my feet. I looked at the speaker grill in the dash and there is nothing there! Isn't a six speaker stereo standard equipment on any trim package. The sales info book says so. Anyone else missing the dash speakers?
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tidester
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A used 2002 Bravada we looked at had a build date of 1/01. That was a big reason we didn't look at it any further. I actually got a new one cheaper anyways. May 01 is obviously several months into the build. It must be a unique vehicle to sit around that long however.
GAM2
I had a few spots show up 2-3 weeks after I took delivery. They were on my hood & roof which appeared to be chemical type spotting. When I took it to the dealer, they sort of gave the same bit, "environmental". There was also an little surface imperfection that I did not see which they said they would cover. The salesman told me that he wanted the paint shop to look at it. When the paint shop foreman took one look, he immediately said it should be redone, under warranty, without question, regardless of the surface imperfection. I had my hood and roof repainted the next week under warranty. A side note: one week after the repainting, I had a stone hit the front of the hood edge! DAMN!! A hood deflector would have been a good thing!
john
I went all the way to the back and I guess there was a recall in April 01 for a control arm problem that was a real mess - people had to give up the cars......
My TB LTZ is two weeks old. I looked at the build date and it was 5/01! Yikes! It must have sat around a long time. It had 700 miles on it...
Do I have to worry about the control arm issue, or was it fixed by May?
Thanks
Today, I was out doing some errands, when I got back in the Envoy, now the tilt steering doesn't work. The tilt button just bounces back and forth, but the steering wheel is stuck in the up position. I called to take it in, but they can't get it in today, and they said they may have to keep it a couple of day. So I guess I have to drive it like this until next week. Anybody else have this problem?
After the dealer performs any recall work, they will put a sticker under the hood (usually on the plastic near the fan) or on the door jam stating that the recall (campaign #) was completed and the date.
So if you buy a truck off the lot that been sitting, check for these. Being that GM stopped production of the truck for a month to figure out the fix, I would think that any car built after 5/01 should be fine.
HORRIBLE that many early buyers got stuck w/o a vehicle......
Is there an aftermaket exhaust tip for the muffler it really sticks out.....
Thanks again for the info!!!
Debbie
jim f
I extendend them by removing the orig. flaps then bolting a set of flat rubber mats to the front sides so they hang out an inch or so about half way down the side and the bottom hangs about 3in below(make sure the nuts on the back sides dont touch any metal or rust will start)only thing that shows is the head of the screw which I touched up black. Seems to be working!
I will start using the DIC to track time and miles to get a good idea of average speeds per tank to see what kind of correlation there is to that.
I asked the dealer to check it out last week when I took it in for the axle squeal, but they could not find anything wrong. At least he didn't try to tell me it was acceptable.
They are ordering a new seal for the axle and will replace the seal. I may bring up the mileage thing again at that time.
GAM2
1- Edmunds review says this suv is sloppy on curves. What do you folks who have experience with the car think? I test drove and the suspension felt a bit wallowy, but I am used to driving the 99, so would expect it would feel very different at first.
2 - Engine on 2002 was very noisy in low gear when I first drove. Dealer said car was cold. After a couple of minutes, noise went away. Any similar experiences.
3 - Dealer had to do a "locate" on the car I want, and closest he could find was in Ma. I am in NY, on LI. Is he going to try to hit me for transportation costs?
4 - Dealer advised me today that if I want to take a 3/36 warranty instead of the 5/50, I can get an additional $1000 of the cost of the car.
Thanks
#2. I can't say I've experienced that, maybe someone who has will chime in later.
#3. Indeed he likely is going to want to charge you transportation costs. I ran into this myself, but I had the luxury of having the time to factory order and wait. If your not in a rush I would suggest making a factory order, the benefits are that the destination charge is already reflected into the invoice so no extra charge there. Also when you factory order the build date for your vehicle will be after you place your order, so you will have all the up to date parts and changes that's been made to the triplets to this point, versus getting the one in MA and it may or may not be that recent of a build date. Also you don't know what condition the one in MA is in and whether it's been test drove to death with hard driving and braking without proper engine break in time. There's fewer unknowns with a factory order.
#4. That's true. You have to weigh whether you want the extended warranty or not. I haven't needed to take advantage of mine just yet with only 600 miles on mine so far, but I can tell you an extended warranty saved me thousands of dollars on my previous Explorer an I only had the Explorer for four years and only put 55,000 miles on it, so I took the extended warranty plus added an appropriate mileage increase because I'll drive more than 60,000 miles in five years.
Well that's my two cents for what it's worth. I'm sure you'll get some more responses on this subject.
Also, if you are concerned about safety, review the IIHS test results on the GM triplets which are not very good for a new model:
http://www.iihs.org/
To the Bravada questions:
1) It is a truck. I think mine handles fine for a
vehicle weighing 4700 lbs. The turning radius is quite good.
2) Sometimes the engine fan comes on when you start the vehicle. That's what the noise is. There may be a TSB out for that.
3) My Bravada came from a dealer 100 miles away and I did not pay for transportation.
4) The extended warranty is a rebate of sorts. I would not mess with it, I'd take the warranty. I was told list price on the same warranty is over $1500, so you are getting it at cost.
GAM2
GAM2
Steve: On occasion when I have been in a rush, I also rapidly have switched from reverse to drive and then floored it. And I was met with a bang in the tranny. I've noticed on several different vehicles that the newer electronic transmissions seem to take longer to engage when switching gears. I'm not really sure if that is by design or not. But yes, my truck does it as well.
Reminds me of "neutral drops" when I was young.
Give it some gas in neutral and drop it into drive. Bang, and you were off, hopefully not breaking anything!
GAM2
the overhead console seems like the ideal spot for a monitor but where would the rest of the system be located?
jim f
Can anything be done to fill the holes?
I gave my TB LS3 a thorough washing last weekend. The build date is 11/01. I noticed the holes too. Nothing is attached to them, but the shrowd in the wheel well is attached elsewhere. I suspect the holes are there to attach the two-tone fender flares GM puts on the LTZ. It all looks nice and tight on mine, so I am ignoring it. Who looks in there anyway?
I bought a mass-production GM SUV because it rides great, has excellent power, great features, and a state-of-the-art engine that gets better mileage than anything else in it's class. And I paid $23,100 for it. I didn't buy an Austin Martin. All-in-all It's a great truck for the money.
Luckily, that was the only bad thing during our trip. This was the first time that I had driven on snow and I thought that the 4-wheel drive and snow tires did a great job (saved me from fish-tailing once). I am glad that I did not have to get out and put on chains in freezing weather.
We took our 7 year old boy with us, and to keep him busy, I bought a dc to ac converter and connected my laptop so that he could watch dvd movies or play games. I fashioned a sling, using a nylon strap and tied it around the headrest supports and placed a pillow between his lap and the computer. He didn't get too uncomfortable and enjoyed watching the movies and playing games.
Hey, I bet you got in some good skiing at Tahoe though! Sounds like a fun trip, but too bad about your delay.
The repair was to replace the steering assembly, as stated on the repair work order. I don't know what all that involved, but they did it in one day.
Hope this helps.
In regards to the squealing, there have been previous posts of people having the axle seals replaced (my included) on the Envoy and TrailBlazer. Did the squeal occur as you were driving and applying brakes? Or while cruising? My symptom was while drive above 20 mph and would not always occur when I drove, but mostly when it was cold (20-35 deg F). Braking or engine speed would not affect the volume or frequency of the squeal.