Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

pepper50 · April 2002

If your A/C compressor is cycling on/off too fast, especially for your ambient outside temperature, then that could mean the refrigerant level is too low. At a minimum, your dealer should test the level, and if low, should evaluate the entire system for a possible leak.

n2sjx · April 2002

What is the address for the "Official GM Service" website?

JK

tlauro · April 2002

can't get the link to work as it shows a protocol error?

is there a login name and password?

also is it the same fix as I've had running since early January?

My notes are here: http://www.timlauro.com/cars/trailblazer/problems-page.html

dshepherd3 · April 2002

I suppose most of us know this is supposed to be a secure Dealer only access site, I think if we continue to try and "hack" into it, they are most certainly going to increase security, especially if we march into the service dept. with a print out from the site. Maybe we could say to someone in service that another vehicle or acquaintence, with a similar problem gave you the info. Actually there is a way to access the monthly dealer news letter without "hacking" in. Let me know and I will recheck if it still works.

pauleul · April 2002

I think pepper50 pretty much covered your question about the $500 over offer.

One other thing to consider - do you still get the $1,500 rebate? I believe the offer is still good until April 30 (and may be extended again after that). I know two dealers in my area were including the rebate with their offers. That would mean the offer you got is really $2,000 over invoice. I paid about $750 over invoice and the invoice included 1% add fee (about $320). If I were to take into consideration the $1,500 rebate, then I paid about $750 under invoice. I know I could have done much better on a Trailblazer and probably could have on the Envoy too if I wanted to put the time and effort in it.

2002slt · April 2002

What an awesome site. I hope we don't lose access to it.

I found the document that states the correct installation method of the roof cross bars. Mine are definitely on backwards, as several posters previously mentioned. See excerpt below:

"Important

Ensure that the loops on the cross rails are indexed toward the front of the vehicle."

Here's the direct link of everything for 4WD Envoy owners:

http://service.gm.com/servlets/SMSCTSrv?&year=2002&make=GMC+Truck&model=Envoy+-+4WD&cfg=&mfmyrcgkey=0

Gotta' love the Internet!

stever · April 2002

Your post was a bit over the "fair use" line concerning copyright. Please repost the link and perhaps quote a line or three - otherwise we'll have GM's lawyers writing us letters. Thanks.

(Check the Member Agreement for our policy on posting copyrighted material).

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

kakb · April 2002

I am wondering if anyone else has had similar problems as I have had with my 2002 Trailblazer LTZ: I have had it in three times due to oil leaking under the front drivers side of the vehicle. The 1st two times they replaced the axle seals because they appeared to be leaking (both times), the third time they replaced the pinion seal because it was apparently leaking (the axle seal was considered to be okay on this 3rd trip). Well, I am about to go in for a 4th time because it is STILL LEAKING in the same area. Unfortunately, legal intervention may have to be my next move. Anyone else having similar problems??

iexplore2000 · April 2002

EnvoyEnvy1: I see that in your previous post (4873), you took your vehicle in for servicing due to acceleration problems. Can you clarify when you experienced the delayed acceleration problem? I think that we may have two different issues here and I want to be sure before I take a printout with your fix information over to my local dealer.

Basically, my delayed acceleration problem does not involve the engine cooling fan running while accelerating. For the most part, I have only heard my fan running a few times. I notice the problem first thing in the mornings when I back my envoy out of the driveway and place it in drive in an attempt to go forward. What usually happens is that I will get a "rrrrr... rrrrrr.. then rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr (which means that I am up and running at this point)" and the vehicle will then accelerate okay, it kind of reminds me of driving an older vehicle early in the morning.. you know.. it just doesn't have that seemless take-off that it may have once had??

I am not sure, but feel free to correct me on this. The acceleration problem that you were experiencing dealt with the engine fan being engaged temporarily when you attempted to accelerate. The engine fan would then cause the vehicle to accelerate slooowwwly as it revved correct? Once the fan disengaged, then your vehicle would accelerate normally again correct? I would love to take the info that you posted over to my local dealer, but to be honest, I am scared to death to have them do all of the reprogramming that you have listed on your service order. For the most part, my tranny shifts pretty good, therefore no need for recalibration there in addition to several other items that were listed on your service report (i.e. speedometer recalibration, delayed transmission downshift, enhanced ev fan calibration, etc.). I guess I am afraid to "let them have at it" in fear that they might screw up something that seems to be working just fine at the present time.

Can you please provide me with your input concerning this, I would like to take my vehicle over to the local dealer sometime this week to have the mirror actuators ordered, driver's seat squeak fixed, and several other items including this cold acceleration issue. Any insight that you (or anyone else for that matter) could provide would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

IExplore2000@aol.com

iexplore2000 · April 2002

Medolark: Can you tell me if/when you experience your cold acceleration problem?

If you reviewed my previous posting above (5083), does my claim seem to fit the problem that you are experiencing as well? Honestly, with the weather changing and all, it seems as if mine is getting progressively worse. Also, I was in Columbus a few weeks back and due to the lack of time, I forgot to drive my friends new Envoy to see if he's experiencing the same delayed acceleration problem. However, I am going back to Columbus again this upcoming Wednesday (as a side note: going to Columbus to have my dad's new Denali rustprofed at a place that I frequent.. I am sooo EXCITED to drive the land barge 300 miles, I can hardly wait!! Ha, ha), during this time I should have several days to check out my friends Envoy to see if he's experiencing the same problem as well. I will keep you posted, in the mean time, what's the status on your vehicle?

TLauro: I know that you are screening these post as well.. We've been missing each other like two ships in the night! Are you gonna be around this weekend, maybe I can stop by and check out your TB with the mods! Let me know your availability.

Thanks!

IExplore2000@aol.com

tlauro · April 2002

found the way in. thanks anyway.

tim

"Actually there is a way to access the monthly dealer news letter without "hacking" in. Let me know and I will recheck if it still works."

2002envoy · April 2002

Does anyone owning an envoy have a fix for poor mpg?I currently get between 14+17 mpg.My vehicle has only turned 4000 miles.I am also experiencing the engine fan noise in morning startups causing lose of power.Also the gm service site now requires a user name+password.

2002slt · April 2002

14 to 17mpg sounds about right for mostly city driving. I have just over 2,000 miles, and have seen anywhere from 12mpg avg. in cold weather city driving, up to 22mpg avg. mainly highway driving. For 270HP, I think it's pretty good. My old 4.3l 190HP '98 Bravada got the same, or worse. What are you expecting to get?

icojones · April 2002

Every time I start my TB LTZ, the information panel (and non-seat/mirror memory settings) automatically go to Driver 1. The seats and mirrors do not go to the driver 1 position, just all of the DIC settings. The memory seat recall options are off, as my wife & I share a single key.

Do the driver settings always switch to correspond with the key?

Thanks.

tlauro · April 2002

I'm in process of updating my site to include a lot of the information that we have been gathering.

Can't finish tonight, but hopefully will in the next few days in case a lot of the new information on the GM Site becomes unavailable.

http://www.timlauro.com/cars/trailblazer/1-main-page.html

tim

bruser1 · April 2002

Curious if anyone has experienced the driver door locking after exiting the vehicle and all the other doors remaining unlocked? Seems odd, you'd think it would be the other way around. Oh, this is a new LTZ TB with about 1650 miles. It's the wifes car but I manage to drive it occassionally. I'll be bringing forth other minor ailments unless I see a solution posted here first. This board is really beneficial. Thanks

pharmasea · April 2002

I frequently tow a 2200lb boat. I don't need 4x4 (I think) but was wondering if anyone can tell me the differnce between the traction assist (which is standard) and limited slip differential.

Thanks

medolark · April 2002

Your description in #5083 fits my case very well. I think I posted an attempt to have dealer look at this - basically he "could not reproduce problem."

Actually, my problem seems to be going away. It has been much less noticeable lately. I was getting a little tired of it so I started just romping on it and after a couple weeks of this it has been acting pretty decent.

I am wondering if you and I are similar drivers. When I first got the Envoy I was very gentle with it and accelerated with barely any throttle. Then after 500 to 600 miles I started giving it more and that is when I first noticed the cold hesitation. I mention this because I am thinking the computer may have "learned" a certain type of behavior from my very gentle starts and hesitated when presented much more vigorous throttle. Since I have stopped "babying" it, it is getting better and I can only postulate that it is learning my new habit. Does this make any sense?

tblazed · April 2002

Suggest going to Eaton.com's web site for a good explanation of the differences in the differentials. BTW GM puts Locking diff's in trucks, and limited-slip diff's in cars. I have the G80 Eaton locker in my 2WD TB and it performs as a normal diff until it senses a certain speed difference btwn the two rear axles, then as long as you are moving less than 20 mph it locks. Seamless action to me. Works very nicely. For the $270 cost well worth it, especially considering the cost to put one in aftermarket.

rob222 · April 2002

I briefly check out burgundy Envoy XL w/gray leather on Saturday and noted that the seats weren't anything special--kinda on the low end of the spectrum. I figure for near $40k, the seats s/b pretty plush. Your comments.

Oh BTW, the third seet has lots of head and feet room.

gmdrone · April 2002

Just a friendly word of advice on fuse #24... The BCM does not keep track of the mileage once that fuse is pulled, but believe me the ECM DOES! I have heard all sorts of horror stories about customers trying to keep their mileage down, (especially on lease cars) only to be fried by GMAC or GM if something happens to the vehicle. As I write this I am aware of 4 different mileage acrual devices not directly tied into your odometer...

Please be careful!!!!

Mark

calucyk · April 2002

What's the name and number to the dealership where you had your Envoy serviced (reference msg #4873). My dealership is not sure on the fan noise solution and would like to contact the dealership directly.

Thanks,
Tony

cmack4 · April 2002

If you tend toward the plushier side, check out the bravada! It's got the nice perforated soft leather. I didn't think the Envoy or TB leather was cheap though... just firmer.

mytrip2 · April 2002

OK all tripplet owners, this TSB just came out. Now you can get your problems taken care of (re) paint chaffing and heat exspansion noise. Even if you don't have a problem with it now, you might later on.

malibu99 · April 2002

Has anyone taken their TB off roading? How did it perform? Is there something I should do to prepare it for offroading?

paisan · April 2002

Hee Hee

Malibu I've asked the same question here a few times, no responses. From what I've seen you'd need to put on skid plates, tires, and take a sawz-all to the front and rear bumpers, and remove the resonator in the back. Also might want to put in springs Front and Rear and with bigger tires you'd likely need to trim the fenders too, to prevent rubbing.

Other than that it should be fine

-mike

tlauro · April 2002

thanks....I'm aware.....of how it just appears to cover things up

Not suggesting I use it either. I'll add the footnote to my site though so others are mistaken. However, I'm sure there are a number of vehicles out there where the same has been done. not sure what impact can be had once the vehicle is in the hands of a new owner though. we found one once after it was traded and sold, but really was no way of saying who did what to it?

malibu99 · April 2002

Yikes! And I was going to go offroading today with what it's got, just stock original equipment! Thank God I asked.

Thanks. :-)

No I wont sell it..I love it too much :-)

paisan · April 2002

Depends on what kind of off-roading you plan to do really. If it's like a dirt road, you should be fine, but if it's a true off-road trail, I'd beef it up before venturing out. If you post up a description of the area I'm sure we can tell you what it can and can't handle.

-mike

cmack4 · April 2002

I take it you're not doing any rock crawling?... that poses a damage risk for any vehicle. The only probelms you're going to have off-roading the triplets are with approach angles. If you're smart about how you drive, you can avoid most of those problems as well. I have a Bravada, so I don't plan on doing any heavy off-roading. For kicks though, the other day, I wanted to see how well the air ride rear suspension articulates. I took it over a small ravine at a decent angle and tried to get it to force the right rear off the ground. To my surprise, I couldn't do it. I must of had about 10-12 inches of travel and it was still touching! The left hand rear wasn't fully compressed either, so it must have been supporting weight. The air ride suspension might actually be decent for off-roading if it can handle the stress! Who knows, land rover has been using it in their disco's for a while now and had a lot of success with it!

paisan · April 2002

The other problem besides the angles of approach/departure would be the ground clearance especially of the side-steps.

Anyone know how large a tire you can run w/o rubbing under full compression or full-lock on the steering?

I've rock crawled a few times with the trooper, so far so good, other than I ripped off my mud-flaps, same thing would happen to the side-steps found on most of the triplets. I was discussing this recently with someone about the Ascendor. If it came with skid plates and they hacked off the bumpers and made the fender wells bigger, it might actually do 1/2 way decent off-roading, those angles though are gonna kill yah.

-mike

cmack4 · April 2002

Sorta like Jeep claims that every one of their vehicles must pass the Rubicon before it's released to the public. I highly doubt any of their stock vehicles would handle the entire trail without taking some bypasses. Actually, they might, but none would escape without damage... Very few vehicles come straight from the factory, ready to do serious off-roading. If they did, they would handle like crap on-road. It's tough to have it both ways.

malibu99 · April 2002

Thanks to everyone for their response.

Well these are more like dirt road trails with bumps and some small mud pits. No rock climbing. The chassis seems to be too low for that so I am affraid the frame will get caught but I think I will enjoy the mud trails :-) can't wait to get her all muddy like those commercials :-)

paisan · April 2002

I actually have pics somewhere from a friend of a friend who is an Engineer for Jeep. They sawzall the bumpers, put on larger tires, and still take on some damage during the rubicon.

Mechanically they can handle it but the bumpers really hurt them, especially the GC.

I only wish that GM had put some more thought into building the overhangs front and rear. Things like the ground clearance, sidesteps etc. can be relatively easily overcome with cheap aftermarket things (like springs, tires) but the overhangs are more difficult to modify for off-roading. Also I haven't had a chance to look and see where things hang on the triplets (tranny, oilpan, t-case, etc) so I'm not sure what is gonna get whacked first. I know on the Trooper I have frame rails that take 90% of the hits, and my T-case is the next item, but luckily has a heavy steel skidplate that I've dragged over rocks several times.

-mike

paisan · April 2002

You should be fine on mud trails, just be careful not to gun the engine through mud-pits, that is the easiest way to kill the engine (WOT sucks in a lot of air and/or water) Go slowly through mud-pits and water crossings. Your frame rails should take rocks and debris easily, they are steel frames, it's the stuff hanging from them that can be damaged (rocker panels, Tranny, t-case, exhaust, fuel lines, brake lines, etc.)

-mike

malibu99 · April 2002

Thanks much!

I think I'll take it slowly at first....I just want to break the TB in a bit and see what it can do. Supposedly an S-10 can go through these , so maybe they are for beginners...

cmack4 · April 2002

the triplets have the frame rails as well. They don't work as well as skid plates, but they would absorb some of the shock and let you slide over stuff. The oil pan and tranny sit up pretty high, but the t-case would probably hit next followed closely by the resonator muffler.

jwolf3 · April 2002

has anyone seem invoice price on '02 envoy xl slt with 1sk package. i have a dealer quote $500 over invoice, but his invoice is $1000 over edmunds & kbb invoice. am i getting ripped?

dshepherd3 · April 2002

The Bcm is holding/calculating speed/ mileage, that fuse merely disables the display, the info can still be accessed with obd11. Coincidently has anybody lost the guages and display, for about 1/2 hour, then have them come back on?

dse1 · April 2002

ever since I had the front axle/diff seals replaced, I've been paranoid about noises. seems that right after the trans downshifts (between 28-34 mph or so) there's a squeel similar to the front axle noise, only lasts for a few seconds and disappears. doesn't matter if the car is warm or cold (front axle noise went away after 20-30 min of driving). Anyone notice this? Also, the TB does fine for light off-roading (stock), little low on clearance (and flexible rubber mud flaps are the way to go!) we've put ~250-350 miles of rutted, rocky, muddy etc roads in CA natl forest, parks and Hollister hills svra... no serious damage yet (other than small flexible branches are enough to scrap paint off the sides..doh!) Dave

dketcham · April 2002

As identified by message #5090, I also have experienced the driver door locking when I exit, while the other doors remain unlocked. I had assumed I was inadvertantly pushing the door lock button by mistake when I opened the door. Maybe not???

iexplore2000 · April 2002

Well.. I went to my local dealer today in order to pick up the license plate seal that I ordered. To my surprise, it ended up costing me $8.50 and it looks like a lonnnnng piece of the door edge guards that you so often see in the auto parts stores. After picking up the seal, I decided that after my ongoing headaches with this dealership, I didn't want to have them address the other problems that I had been experiencing.

Instead, I took a 25 minute trip over to the GMC dealership in Bay City, MI and pulled into their service department and was greeted promptly and in a very courteous manner. I informed the dealership about the problems that I had been experiencing:
* Bass rattling passenger-side door panel
* Order both mirror actuators as listed on the TSB (in which I gave him a copy.. he had this wierd look on his face because he probably wondered where I found this official GM document)
* Driver's side seat squeaking
* Intermittent dead battery issue (2x)
* Cold acceleration problem (didn't give them any tsb info.. I want to see what they can find on their own)

To my surprise, the service advisor listened attentively to my complaints and even let me demonstrate the problems so that there would be a slim chance that I would end up with a "could not duplicate problem" on my service invoice. I didn't have an appointment with this dealership, but they managed to squeeze me in and get me into a Enterprise rental car immediately since they would have to keep the vehicle overnight. I started to have them install the rear license plate gasket, but I bit my tongue and will attempt installation myself once I have the vehicle back in my possession.

I will keep you all posted on the mirror actuator fix and other items as well. In the mean time, I guess I could always play jump rope with the door seal, it seems long enough!!

Thanks!

IExplore2000@aol.com

iexplore2000 · April 2002

Medolark,

Actually, you are correct... I did baby the Envoy during the first 500 - 800 miles. Now I drive it like a wildman, but the delayed acceleration problem is still prevalent. Just like you mentioned in your post, a couple times I have literally "stuck my foot in it" during acceleration to quickly remedy the problem, but it didn't correct the problem.

I am curious to see what the dealership can come up with concerning this issue. I mentioned to my service advisor that the problem is specifically first thing in the morning after the engine is very cold. On another note, you could be correct in your assumption that the computer could have innately learned a specific driving pattern which may have caused the delayed acceleration problem. Hmmm.. I will keep you posted. Hopefully the service visit won't take too long, this loaner car (Ford Focus) is for the birds -- and sounds like one too!

Thanks!

IExplore2000@aol.com

biggie4852 · April 2002

I have read most of the post and think it is a great site for triplet owner. My question concern the LS 2wd or 4wd model verse LT/LTZ 4wd. The transfer case, axle seal leaking, cold start acceleration problem appear to affect the 4wd trucks. I have no problem with my 2wd
truck so far and would like to know if any other LS 2wd had these problem. Thanks for any reply just curious.

crj1 · April 2002

Where do you live, I work for a GMC dealer in michigan and could get the info. for you.

jljackson1 · April 2002

Hello I am new here, but have been reading some of the posts. I am considering buying an Envoy 4WD SLT for my wife. She has been driving the infamous 1995 Windstar, so she is leery of buying another first of model year. Have the triplets had an over abundance of problems? Also, I stopped by a dealer today in St. Louis, and he mentioned a slow up in production of the Envoy. Has anyone else heard about this, and could this be due to GM trying to iron out recurrent problems that consumers are encountering?

cmack4 · April 2002

I doubt it after a strong showing in February and March. It's probably just the dealers way to get you to take what's on his lot! The Triplets do have their fair share of issues to look for, but the good news is that there aren't really any show stoppers. Considering they're selling approximately 30,000+ of these things every month, I'd say problems appear to be very isolated overall! If you search back, you'll see recurring problems like the tailgate paint issue, and the weatherstripping coming loose, roof crossbars, wandering mirrors, and a couple of other gripes. Overall, I think you'll see that most owners here are very happy with their Triplets.

gam2 · April 2002

jjackson1: Fan and transmission problems are also common on early builds. They are computer problems, not failures. I took my Bravada in for 8 problems today. Gave the service advisor
several posts from this site regarding TSB's. He didn't recognize any numbers and said NEVER trust the internet. Well I would trust you guys more than him. He said there was only one TSB out on the Bravada. I have seen at least 10. I'm crossing my fingers.........

GAM2

envoyenvy1 · April 2002

Sorry for the delayed response. I was out of the state for a week on business.
So the basic description of the problem I was having.
In the morning (only time it seemed to happen) when I would start the SUV the FAN would get very loud (very high RPM's), putting it in to drive, the engine would rev. high but almost no power to the drive train (seemed like the transmission was slipping).
After a few mintues of driving it was fine. Also, I could start it and just wait about 10 minutes and it would be fine. Otherwise the trans shifted just fine.
The dealer said they made "A" programing change so I assume that meant this was maybe a single reprogram that included all of the updates I had listed. Hope this helps.... By the way the dealer was Westminster GMC (Westminster California)

envoyenvy1 · April 2002

The dealer name is Westminster GMC. They are located in Westminster California. 714-894-3341 is the phone number. Have them ask for Nick, he was the person I worked with.

Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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