Like you, I have an LS that is perfectly acceptable, but I have nowhere to go when it is no longer. Someday it'll wear out or (hope not) cause problems prematurely. . .at which time I'm forced to go elsewhere -- will never own another automatic transmission.
It is too bad the LM does not monitor this board because Kelleyo is right on. I have been a Ford nut since I was 12, and have owned a similar chain of Fords. Started with classic Cougars and Mustangs,then moved on to SHOs when 4 doors became a reality We currently own an F-150,an Expedition, now a BMW.
When we were ready to move from our SHO to another 4 door in 2001, I really tried to to like the LS, but kept driving the BMW 3 Series and based on number of reasons, made a jump from Ford products for the first time in my life.
The BMW has been a great car, the total driving experience is everything the magazines rave about, but $40K for a compact is starting to seem a little nuts to me.
After driving the 2003 LS, I would jump to that in a heartbeat from my BMW if they would put some type of performance tweaks into it. I can even live with the new 5 sp Auto, although the 6 sp would be a dream, if they would make it at least as fast as my 330i.
Kelleyo is correct in that they need to drop Mercury, it has been dead a long time and needs to be buried. LM needs a luxury/performance identity, and as quick as the V8 LS is, is does not hold a candle to the competing brands performance models. This car deserves the S-Type R's powertrain, brakes, and active suspension.
Would be the late Mercury Marauder. LM also dropped a big chunk on that underpowered, overweight retread of a Crown Victoria/Marquis de Sade. Instead, I think they should have put the Cobra drivetrain in the LS and had a real killer under 50k. It should be simple and reciprocal, since the new Cobra is supposed to get the Dew 98 Lite platform variation. Ford has all the parts, it just needs the will. The Cobra has the supercharged engine, the Tremec six-speed and the LSD rear end. Sounds like a small tweak job, since the LS had an MTX model with three pedals before. (And LM had a prototype LS with a Tremec as well). Very little new ground to cover here. I just read that the Ford GT(40) will use an Eaton supercharger on a modified 5.4 from the Navigator and a Ricardo 6 speed box with a Fuji LSD rear end. See, Ford can do almost anything. The trouble is, they need focus. They have some weirdos in the marketing department where thay need to listen to the engineers more. Better yet, they need to listen to the public more. If LM wants to compare itself with Cadillac, they may find themselves standing still. While the CTS is not my idea of a great looking car, and even GM admits the need to improve quality, 400hp and sub five-second 0-60 times for under 50k are like women in bars that look better after 2am. Again, GM is using off-the-shelf parts in a different application. Two-valve OHV engines from the 1950's tell you something about where GM is lagging and how sophisticated GM's buyers are (especially in trucks/SUVs)
With the sunroof and windows closed, and the seats down, you can hear if there is any sound too loud/abnormal from the rear end. I could hear what sounded like a bad bearing for months, but with the seats down, I could really hear it. Sure enough, the more lightly loaded right rear wheel bearing had suffered from my "jack-rabbit" starts and 2 Manias, and was in the self-destruction mode. The "seats-down diagnosis" made it easier for the service guys to verify the problem. Not to mention the 8-10 ft. fence posts you can get in your LS in this "truck-mode". Try that in your average sports sedan with it's little "pass-through".
I was wondering if you can get a Lincoln serviced while under warranty by any Ford dealer, or if you have to go to the Lincoln dealer. They have new 2002's advertised in the paper this week for $10,000 off MSRP.
I think what Meeepster is referring to is common with a sunroofs in all cars. I had this experience for the first time with a rented car recently, when I noted that certain positions of the sunroof at certain speeds resulted in the most amazing resonance. I'm guessing the LS with the rear seats folded down is at a much lower frequency. What I dealt with was bad enough -- I can only imagine what the LS must be like. I made it a point to not get the sunroof on my car for headroom, weight & complexity reasons.
This is just physics at work -- a sunroof is nothing more than an opening that acts exactly like blowing across a bottle. The size of the opening is one variable, but the more important one is the size of the volume.
I've treated my MTX LS perhaps a bit more carefully than you have yours, but I'm still going to be listening very carefully for bearing noise. Probably you just had a bad part (he said hopefully).
Lincoln warranty work can be done by any Ford or Ford/Mercury dealer; you don't have to take your Lincoln to a Lincoln shop for warranty repairs.
There is, however, one thing to be aware of: Starting with the 2001 model year, regular maintenance has been included in the purchase price of new Lincolns, and this maintenance must be done at a Lincoln store in order for it to be a no-charge deal. In other words, if you have your oil and filter changes done at a Lincoln shop, you don't have to pay for them, but at a Ford-only or Ford/Mercury (non-Lincoln) shop, you DO have to pay for them.
(Maintenance is included for the first 3 years or 36,000 miles for 2001-2003 Lincolns. This is being reduced to 1 year/12,000 miles for the 2004 model year.)
Well, friends and fellow club members, my beloved Tri-Coat 2000 MTX LS will be turned in to my local LM dealer tomorrow. I did my final greaving as I reinstalled the stock exhaust system, stock air filter and original air box. Now I have left over a slightly worn Borla system, 2002 air box, K&N air filter, and a set of F/R Porterfield Brake Pads that cost close to $200 and have never seen the light of day. Driving the car in "stock configuration" was like dialing time back to Mania 1. The car is unearthly quiet, and I can't hear the engine and time my shifts by ear. The Borla system has to be for the hard core, as the Magnaflow is much more civilized in sound and price. But I can really tell the difference in acceleration with the obviously more restrictive stock intake and exhaust systems. "Whitey" will be sent off to the nearby dealer auction in Oceanside, Ca. The residual of $17,600 will be reduced in a FMC write-off to around $14,000. Some young kid will be racing my "old" car with some Civic very soon. Maybe we'll meet the new owner on this forum. I'm pretty sure the car will stay in the San Diego area. Used cars usually bring more here. I know that no LM dealer will resell these MTX's. After all, they didn't want them when new, so why would they want them used? Whitey, I'll miss you! I have never had such a reliable and great-handling car. And good looking as well. Your A/C system was great, and we were a great team together. Whitey especially liked Manias I and III. The original Firestones were a great match for the car. If any tire can deliver 26k with the way I drive, it deserves something equivalent to an Academy Award. The old Volvo 960 is getting tired, and soon I will be looking for a new ride. Who knows, I may look at a new LS someday. I'll be monitoring this board, guys and girls. I appreciate your friendship and the fun I've had with the LS fraternity. There is no group in Autodom like this one. Stanny1 on the side.
I think you hit the nail on the head. Ford designed the LS under the Nasser era, then a financial crunch hit. Linoln has unfortunately borne the brunt of this.
Fortantely for LS owners, Ford got that car out the door, so even if it is somewhat of a red headed stepchild product in the Lincoln lineup, that doesn't affect you if the only one you own is the LS.
I don't believe the LS could ever have seriously been destined for the European market, given that Ford already owns a loss-making Jaguar, which is its performance brand.
I, for one, do not want to see the Mercury brand die. Too much history. (Heck, I'm sorry to see Oldsmobile die, but I wasn't bothered at all by the death of Plymouth.)
I would rather have seen the Mercury become the performance line for the middle class and the Jaguar become the performance cars for the well to do, keeping Lincoln as the upper middle class luxury car.
Thinking back at all the Mercury cars over the years, starting with the 49-51 "bathtub" models; the 52-54 Monterey with factory rolled/pleated interiors; the mid 50's Sun Valley; the introduction of the Montclair line in 55; the 57 Mercury "Turnpike Cruiser" spaceship; the S 55 models in the 60's; the Cougar in 67; the Cyclone models in the mid/upper 60's; the CJ428s and Cyclone Spoilers; the Cougar Eliminator; the Marauder X100; the classy, huge 1972 with the Cadillac look alike front end; Dyno Don Nicholson's funny car, too many great cars to just fade off into the sunset.
Mercury lost it's way after the 72 model year, becoming nothing more than rebadged Fords.
Cadillac had no choice but to add performance cars to the line since there is no GM "Jaguar". But Ford has the Jaguar, which is already sharing a platform with the LS and TBird.
GM is gearing Pontiac to be their performance line for the masses (GTO/Grand Prix-just like the old days), and Caddy for the rich and famous because they have no other choice.
Turning the Mercury image into Ford's "performance car for the masses" would have been easier than changing the Lincoln mindset. (When was the last time "high performance" and "Lincoln" were mentioned together? In the 1954 road races?)
A Merc showroom featuring the Mercury performance sports sedan, the LS, and the Marauder full sized musclecar made more sense to me.
I agree with most of what Jerry says. I also wonder where the blue-rinse crowd would buy their cars.
Balieve me, as they die off new ones replace them. I see this in my friends and family. Probably 80%+ of my acquaintences view their cars as appliances, and would be uncomfortable in a showroom of "performance" cars.
You should have tried to by a Merkur back in the 80s; the dealers had no clue about how to sell to customers that still had all their own teeth. I see the LS travelling the same path-meaningful upgrades to the vehicle coupled with a complete lack of advertising and dealer support. Death by a thousand cuts. As for Mercury, I have my eye on a one owner low-as in five thousand-mile 1967 Cougar XR7, so I have fond past(and hopefully future) memories of the marque. Yet I still remember looking to buy my first new car back in 1982. I stopped by the local L-M dealer to check out the new and hot(for the time)Capri 5.0 HO V8. The sixtyish salesmen informed me that due to the poor gas mileage not many people would want one, so they weren't ordering any. Morons...
Ford's main problem is long term strategy. Probably spend all their time revising their mission statement instead of staying with a theme. That's why between Lincoln & Mercury, you can't tell who they want them to be. A Town Car & a LS?
Realistically, Ford can't ditch Mercury until it has Lincoln figured out, otherwise the Lincoln-Mercury dealers would be in trouble. GM wants to have all standalone Cadillac dealers. Lincoln dealers could exist standalone if Ford figures out what it wants to do with Lincoln. Mercury can exist for a long time just as a rebage operation, much as GMC Truck does (as in the case of GM, this dilutes the sales numbers of your twinned models and can allow your competitor to claim the #1 spot in sales a la the F-150).
The key for Lincoln is to define what they want to be as a company and a brand. Then design every car and truck around that. Unfortunately for the LS, I don't see performance as part of the equation. But with the LS selling well (at least in my opinion), I think the model is something that Lincoln will keep and invest in for many years - just as they are doing with the '04.
The interesting thing is that if Cadillac kills off the current DeVille in 2 years, Lincoln could have the luxury land yatch market all to itself with the Town Car.
I was wondering if anybody here knew what the difference between the MY '01 & '02 exhaust system was? Is there a size increase in tube diameter from the V6 and V8 factory exhaust, is the H-pipe in a different location. I really just want to find out what the difference was for the added 10HP. I know Lincoln revised the airbox for MY '02 and updated the exhaust also; mainly for the V6 for a boost of 10HP. I have a '01 LS V6 non-sport and I have upgraded the airbox to an '02 and was thinking about upgrading the exhaust to also an '02. Would these two mods give the additional 10HP or is there any thing other that needs to be done.
Your warranty will probably cost you between 1200 & $2000, depending on which plan you get, and how many miles you have on it. It is somewhat negotiable too, the dealer can make as much as he dares selling them, so you may want to shop it from dealer to dealer. The Ford ESP is the best plan though, IMO. Once you have it, there's never any haggle over a repair. They honor it anywhere.
Insurance companies spread the risk among many owners, and come out ahead. I spread my risk among many products, and come out ahead.
If I had banked all the money I did not spend on extended warranties (Automobiles, Appliances, TV, Stereo, Power tools, etc.), then drawn from that account to pay for any failures, I'm sure that account would have a healthy balance now.
"I stopped by the local L-M dealer to check out the new and hot(for the time)Capri 5.0 HO V8. The sixtyish salesmen informed me that due to the poor gas mileage not many people would want one, so they weren't ordering any. Morons..."
Man, no kidding. I had to order an '85 Capri 5.0 HO, they didn't have any in stock when I bought mine. The dealer looked at it like it was going to bite him or he would get cooties touching it. I absolutely loved that car, it was one of the best cars I've owned. Factory headers, duals with a crossover pipe, low restriction cats, 750 Holley 4 bbl carb, and it didn't look like every 4 cyl Mustang on the road. Lots of good memories and burned bald rear tires, ah, memories...
The Merkur thing is right on as well, you think they don't know what to do with the LS, they were totally clueless with the Merkur.
Well, at least we have the LS, I'm quite happy with my 2000 V8 Sport, been one of the most reliable cars I've owned. More low end grunt would be nice, as well as a LSD, but it's a great car all the same. Handles better than the Capri, but I still miss the burnouts. <g>
I have a 2000 LS V8 Non-sport and was very active on this panel a few years ago -- went to "Mania One", and all that.
My LS had some problems upon delivery -- bad communication problems due to a (electronically) noisy abs unit -- caused every warning light to go out on the console panel. Took Lincoln a few weeks to track down the problem, 'cause the car was new to the Lincoln mechanics too.
No real problems since then - replaced those rear window lifters, had a sticky thermostat, replaced an automatic transmission shift-lever sensor switch that failed -- all under warranty, and my mechanic is real competent.
About a month ago, the car had a complete shut-down 141 miles from home, in Palm Desert. The engine just stopped. Would not crank, would not start. Every conceivable message center warning popped up. Turns out the alternator blew out -- and took the computer with it! Three weeks for the dealer out there to find all the problems and fix 'em (they also cracked the windsheild while servicing the car -- so they replaced that too under warranty). Lincoln picked up most of the car rental, and has been very good to me during the years I owned the car (but I miss J. Rogers at the other end of an e-mail -- he really set a great tone for customer service).
Anyway, if I keep the car, I think I better gat an extended warranty. But I still think enough of the LS to encourage my wife to get one too.
You guys understand why we have this kind of brand loyalty.
Your loyalty is a remarkable thing. Something I didn't expect to develop from this car. Exactly what is the magic that drives the owners club & brand loyalty to this fine road car?
Also, I don't know if Mark from Detroit still participates on the board -- but we all (on this board) felt like we were solving some of the early problems calibrating the auto tranny. Lincoln responded to almost all our concerns in the new models, or through TSB's -- except Stanny's wish for a V8 Mtx and more dealer support for that tranny.
Good to see you're still around. Missed you here. You should come to our next "meet". Mark K. does still participate, however he has moved on to other projects. IIRC, he's working on the tranny for the new diesel. have you driven the '03? It's VERY nice, however it doesn't make my want to trade-in my '00. I did get a CPO 2001 for my wife a couple of months ago. She's NOT a car babe, but sure likes driving her LS!
nvbanker: I believe what drives the owners club and the car's loyalty is that we get an American car that is at least equal (or better in some cases) to a BMW for tens of thousands of dollars less. You also don't see yourself in the mirror every few miles. Great handling car, subtle, classic design, what's not to like!?!?!
I have been a long time viewer of this site and my first LS was a leased 2000 sport. Loved the car, loved the performance, loved driving it on the twisties, and always had that grin! My time to return it came up just a few days ago, and although I could not replace it with another Sport model I did purchase the base 6. I looked at a lot of other cars during my search to replace it (Acura, Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Pontiac (liked the new Grand Prix 2004)but when I went to return mine I was amazed at the price I was offered...24k out the door...simply couldn't refuse. I do miss some the 'extra's' I had on the 2000, but I am once again thrilled with the performance. There is a difference between the two, but I'm adapting and still have that 'grin'!
One of several elements of "The Magic" is something we're often unaware of on a conscious level ... the incredible ease with which this car TRACKS down the expressway.
It takes very little steering wheel input to keep it on-line. Even with irregular road surfaces and crosswinds.
Compare it to a Lexus. If a driver pays attention, he/she will notice how much driver intervention is necessary just to keep the car on-course. This manifests itself after a 2-4 hour drive in a Lexus with thoughts of: "Sure was a quiet, smooth, luxurious ride, but just not much fun ... seemed to be more work than I expected."
To repeat what I've said before: The Lincoln LS is laser-straight, and seems to know where I'm headed.
This kind of connection with the car, vs. Lexus' disconnection, makes a world of difference in the driving experience, and my feelings toward the car. Something that simply cannot be overcome by marble-floored show rooms, free Starbucks, or slick driving machine slogans.
FOMOCO: You NAILED this aspect of the vehicle. Too bad it's so difficult to communicate to potential buyers.
the style of the LS is great - it holds up very well over time. My wife was thinking about buying the Infinity G35 -- but I think it'll look old fast. There is someting crisp, but restrained, about the LS styling. The handling goes without saying -- that's why I bought it. And I kinda like the pre-cafe audio system w/all those speakers and the power amp in the trunk -- anyone know if the THX system is better than the audiophile system we got in 2000?
Most of the LS loyalists seem to be owners of the 2000 model, which was naturally, the most trouble prone, being the first year of production. But you still love your cars all the more. It's facinating to me. Don't get me wrong, I love the car too for the way it drives and performs, but it's a bit too small for my needs. I admire it though, and rent one whenever I can.
Yeah, its kind of strange. I think Lincoln's participation addressing all those early problems -- they never ducked an issue -- was in great part the reason 2000 owners on this board are so dedicated. But it is strange -- all those problems, but still loyalty.
I took my HP computer back to Best Buy to get it repaired. While repairing it an employee dropped the keyboard and broke it, so they gave me a new keyboard.
I'm sure you've sat in a theatre when the trademark THK blast comes on. It sounds exactly like that in the LS. The 03 has speakers coming out of speakers! I've had 2 audiophiles and there is no comparison. A problem which should be rectified is that the THX comes with the Nav system at a substantial price. Can't currently get one without the other.
Also, after spending two years in a car with a good Nav system, it's a 'must' for my next vehicle purchase.
One of many examples: I know that I exit I-94 onto 127 Northbound in a couple of miles, but I don't know whether I exit from the left lane or right. The Nav. lady tells me ~ 2 miles in advance.
This alone has avoided high-risk situations a number of times ... particularly in strange cities with serpentine expressways.
I just purchased a Pharos portable NAV system. It works in conjunction with a pocket PC and is a fraction of the cost of a built in unit. It has the advantage of being able to be taken with you in rental cars etc. While the unit is not perfect, it is exceptionally helpfu.
Since I am probably going to negotriate a purchase of a LS 6 for my wife tomorrow -- any advice on price in Los Angeles Area -- She is just looking at the base model -- I checked Edmund's pricing -- but it seems they don't give you info about the dealer rebates or credits, like they used too. I saw earlier the purchase for $24K in San Diego -- that's incredible -- what do you guys think my reasonable expectation should be (I still can't believe 2 LS's in the family).
Yesterday was destined to be memorable. I was a half hour late in attending our Dallas club meeting. I was in charge of bringing the Speed Channel LS review video plus I had all my tools to assist in a Magnaflow install. Arriving at the dealership, I didn't see any of the familiar LS's in the parking lot. Then the place seemed darker than usual. Sure enough the dealer was closed for the long weekend and had forgotten to advise us. But where were the guys? I called the chapter director on his cell and he gave me directions to a pizza joint they were meeting at. I drove up there and opened my trunk to bring all the tools into the restaurant to make a point that I was ready to work. The minute I closed the trunk, my heart sank as I knew I had just locked the keys in. I went in and mentioned this to the group. Several offered to drive me home to pick up my extra keys. I mentioned that it would take the better part of 21/2 hours for the round trip. Then I recalled the Lincoln help line. I called and within 30 minutes I was back in my car. No fuss or papers to sign just great service. Keep that in mind if you end up in a similar situation. PS, the LS has quite the security system. Even after I was back in the car, I couldn't open the trunk because the alarm system was still active. Fortunately, I had the valet key in the glove box which allowed me to start the car and deactivate the system. It all works together.
Well, yesterday I negotiated and bought the 2003 LS 6 for my wife. I am amazed how my 2000 LS V8 is as quiet as the new car. The ride and handling not suprisingly feel exactly the same.
The Continentals on the 6 are not yet worn in, so I can't accurately compare them to the Firehawks -- That look like they got another 5-10K left on 'em.
I'm impressed with the new interior "freshening." The slide-forward arm rest is a good idea, and putting the side-mirror controls on the door console makes intuitive sense.
I'm not so sure about the "nickel" finish center stack -- I put fake wood on the 2000 stack to match the wood trim, which maybe a bit too "AARP", but the nickel looks plastic to me (which it is) and after being "educated" in cool nicel finishes on electronics (i.e. the Palm Pilot, the digital camera, and jewelry) the "imitation" quotient for the LS interior is a bit high. The plastic wood looked real. The vinyl seat sections are almost indistinguishable from the leather surfaces -- but the silver plastic center stack fools no-one except in photographs.
The keyless entry system solves chartrand's recent problem, and the "bounce-back" front windows with full auto up as well as down on both sides is a welcome addition.
That's two sales, and establishing brand loyalty, the Lincoln accomplished -- in the face of a lot of unintended technical problems. Hope Lincoln underestands why J. Rogers strategy of supporting enthusiasts is so important.
Well, Saw, I have a couple hundred pounds of Nickel Satin in my Navigator, and it doesn't offend me in the least. I like the looks of it. I also have a fair amount of it in my 2002 Mountaineer, which has held up just fine, just to quell everyone's anxiety about it showing scratches and marks too easily. You can mar it, just like you can damage real wood, plastic wood or leather. But it's not really so bad. It might grow on you. Congratulations on your new one! It must be special to have 2 LSes in the garage?
catherine9 - I really can't tell you if $28,100 is a good price for a new 2002 LS V6 unless I know which model it is, or what the MSRP is.
If it is a loaded V6, like a Premium model, $28,100 is a GOOD price. If it is a Base V6 with no or few options you should be able to do better. As a reference, the dealers around me quickly sold most of their leftover 2002 LS V8's when they lowered the price to $29,999, that's for various V8 Premium and Sport models that stickered for $39K to $41K.
Grizzlydad, What year V6 did you get, 2002 or 2003? To me the 2003 V6 does not feel much slower than my 2000 V8. The '00 V8 has better passing acceleration eg. 60-80 but other than that the 2003 V6 feels pretty good.
My buy was a 2003, base 6. I agree with you the new 6 has excellent acceleration off the line...I'm still learning how to keep my foot out of it. I think the difference is the 5 speed auto which starts out in first, unlike my 2000 Sport 8 which started in second.
So catherine9 shop around I know there are deals to be had out there.
It'll be fun after my wife breaks it in to compare the 6 to the 8. Right now, both cars feel exactly the same to me (her 6 w/o sunroof is a tad quieter than my 8 w/ sunroof, but not much).
By the way, the price was quite reasonable at about $4,500 below suggested retail, and 'cause I know the owner of the dealership, buying the car was a pleasure (don't need the marble and glass showroom -- just need an honest straight shooter to settle on a price).
Let's see if Lincoln gives the second owner in the household the royal treatment they gave us "pioneers."
Don't count on it. My 1st LS got me the champagne flutes, a touch up kit and a magazine. My next one netted me a postcard linking me to a web site to register for a magazine.
is to always obtain a car from a corporation that isn't going to endure a host of lawsuits, management upheavals and other huge disruptions immediately after the purchase, such that they end up with 10-figure annual losses.
When the LS was introduced (& now, for that matter) it appealed to people who wanted a true performance sedan. It even had a manual. In time, we all thought the manual would be extended to the V8.
Instead, the manual was eliminated altogether (mostly because the dealer cabal didn't want to deal with it), and the dealers pretty much shunned (or at least appeared really clueless regarding) the LS. Even so, many were distributed to the Lincoln faithful and a handful of enthusiasts as well. To this day, any enthusiast who shows up at a Lincoln dealership, having visited BMW, Audi & Infiniti stores is going to be, shall we say, unimpressed by the experience -- until they drive the car. My guess is that many walk away prior to that point. The year-over-year LS figures indicate that the white-shoe sales force isn't getting the job done, as far as the LS is concerned. Then there's that advertising thing, which is getting better, but only in "selected markets." The competition is going all-out.
More's the pity. It's a great car, and if the corporation hadn't gone upside-down exactly when the LS needed an infusion of upgrades and additional models, we'd likely be looking at an entirely different scenario today.
Anyway, I got my manual, flutes & touch-up paint and am waiting to see if my LS delivers the kind of long-term reliability I needed when I bought it. Sorry those of you with the post card didn't jump into the pool sooner.
It's a great car, but the company producing it is stone broke and trying to make up the difference selling trucks.
Comments
For now, however, things are okay.
When we were ready to move from our SHO to another 4 door in 2001, I really tried to to like the LS, but kept driving the BMW 3 Series and based on number of reasons, made a jump from Ford products for the first time in my life.
The BMW has been a great car, the total driving experience is everything the magazines rave about, but $40K for a compact is starting to seem a little nuts to me.
After driving the 2003 LS, I would jump to that in a heartbeat from my BMW if they would put some type of performance tweaks into it. I can even live with the new 5 sp Auto, although the 6 sp would be a dream, if they would make it at least as fast as my 330i.
Kelleyo is correct in that they need to drop Mercury, it has been dead a long time and needs to be buried. LM needs a luxury/performance identity, and as quick as the V8 LS is, is does not hold a candle to the competing brands performance models. This car deserves the S-Type R's powertrain, brakes, and active suspension.
Ok, I will stop wishing and start writing LM.
Instead, I think they should have put the Cobra drivetrain in the LS and had a real killer under 50k.
It should be simple and reciprocal, since the new Cobra is supposed to get the Dew 98 Lite platform variation.
Ford has all the parts, it just needs the will.
The Cobra has the supercharged engine, the Tremec six-speed and the LSD rear end. Sounds like a small tweak job, since the LS had an MTX model with three pedals before. (And LM had a prototype LS with a Tremec as well). Very little new ground to cover here.
I just read that the Ford GT(40) will use an Eaton supercharger on a modified 5.4 from the Navigator and a Ricardo 6 speed box with a Fuji LSD rear end.
See, Ford can do almost anything.
The trouble is, they need focus. They have some weirdos in the marketing department where thay need to listen to the engineers more. Better yet, they need to listen to the public more.
If LM wants to compare itself with Cadillac, they may find themselves standing still.
While the CTS is not my idea of a great looking car, and even GM admits the need to improve quality, 400hp and sub five-second 0-60 times for under 50k are like women in bars that look better after 2am.
Again, GM is using off-the-shelf parts in a different application. Two-valve OHV engines from the 1950's tell you something about where GM is lagging and how sophisticated GM's buyers are (especially in trucks/SUVs)
I could hear what sounded like a bad bearing for months, but with the seats down, I could really hear it.
Sure enough, the more lightly loaded right rear wheel bearing had suffered from my "jack-rabbit" starts and 2 Manias, and was in the self-destruction mode.
The "seats-down diagnosis" made it easier for the service guys to verify the problem.
Not to mention the 8-10 ft. fence posts you can get in your LS in this "truck-mode". Try that in your average sports sedan with it's little "pass-through".
Now - 1 MPG will not kill me - but this appears to be a move in the wrong direction.
What happened? Has LM been playing with final drive ratios again?
Thanks,
- Ray
Wondering what the EPA would think of an LS8 with a 4.33 . . .
This is just physics at work -- a sunroof is nothing more than an opening that acts exactly like blowing across a bottle. The size of the opening is one variable, but the more important one is the size of the volume.
I've treated my MTX LS perhaps a bit more carefully than you have yours, but I'm still going to be listening very carefully for bearing noise. Probably you just had a bad part (he said hopefully).
There is, however, one thing to be aware of: Starting with the 2001 model year, regular maintenance has been included in the purchase price of new Lincolns, and this maintenance must be done at a Lincoln store in order for it to be a no-charge deal. In other words, if you have your oil and filter changes done at a Lincoln shop, you don't have to pay for them, but at a Ford-only or Ford/Mercury (non-Lincoln) shop, you DO have to pay for them.
(Maintenance is included for the first 3 years or 36,000 miles for 2001-2003 Lincolns. This is being reduced to 1 year/12,000 miles for the 2004 model year.)
Tri-Coat 2000 MTX LS will be turned in to my local LM dealer tomorrow.
I did my final greaving as I reinstalled the stock exhaust system, stock air filter and original air box.
Now I have left over a slightly worn Borla system, 2002 air box, K&N air filter, and a set of F/R Porterfield Brake Pads that cost close to $200 and have never seen the light of day.
Driving the car in "stock configuration" was like dialing time back to Mania 1.
The car is unearthly quiet, and I can't hear the engine and time my shifts by ear.
The Borla system has to be for the hard core, as the Magnaflow is much more civilized in sound and price.
But I can really tell the difference in acceleration with the obviously more restrictive stock intake and exhaust systems.
"Whitey" will be sent off to the nearby dealer auction in Oceanside, Ca.
The residual of $17,600 will be reduced in a FMC write-off to around $14,000.
Some young kid will be racing my "old" car with some Civic very soon. Maybe we'll meet the new owner on this forum. I'm pretty sure the car will stay in the San Diego area. Used cars usually bring more here.
I know that no LM dealer will resell these MTX's. After all, they didn't want them when new, so why would they want them used?
Whitey, I'll miss you! I have never had such a reliable and great-handling car. And good looking as well. Your A/C system was great, and we were a great team together.
Whitey especially liked Manias I and III.
The original Firestones were a great match for the car. If any tire can deliver 26k with the way I drive, it deserves something equivalent to an Academy Award.
The old Volvo 960 is getting tired, and soon I will be looking for a new ride. Who knows, I may look at a new LS someday.
I'll be monitoring this board, guys and girls.
I appreciate your friendship and the fun I've had with the LS fraternity. There is no group in Autodom like this one.
Stanny1 on the side.
Fortantely for LS owners, Ford got that car out the door, so even if it is somewhat of a red headed stepchild product in the Lincoln lineup, that doesn't affect you if the only one you own is the LS.
I don't believe the LS could ever have seriously been destined for the European market, given that Ford already owns a loss-making Jaguar, which is its performance brand.
I would rather have seen the Mercury become the performance line for the middle class and the Jaguar become the performance cars for the well to do, keeping Lincoln as the upper middle class luxury car.
Thinking back at all the Mercury cars over the years, starting with the 49-51 "bathtub" models; the 52-54 Monterey with factory rolled/pleated interiors; the mid 50's Sun Valley; the introduction of the Montclair line in 55; the 57 Mercury "Turnpike Cruiser" spaceship; the S 55 models in the 60's; the Cougar in 67; the Cyclone models in the mid/upper 60's; the CJ428s and Cyclone Spoilers; the Cougar Eliminator; the Marauder X100; the classy, huge 1972 with the Cadillac look alike front end; Dyno Don Nicholson's funny car, too many great cars to just fade off into the sunset.
Mercury lost it's way after the 72 model year, becoming nothing more than rebadged Fords.
Cadillac had no choice but to add performance cars to the line since there is no GM "Jaguar". But Ford has the Jaguar, which is already sharing a platform with the LS and TBird.
GM is gearing Pontiac to be their performance line for the masses (GTO/Grand Prix-just like the old days), and Caddy for the rich and famous because they have no other choice.
Turning the Mercury image into Ford's "performance car for the masses" would have been easier than changing the Lincoln mindset. (When was the last time "high performance" and "Lincoln" were mentioned together? In the 1954 road races?)
A Merc showroom featuring the Mercury performance sports sedan, the LS, and the Marauder full sized musclecar made more sense to me.
Balieve me, as they die off new ones replace them. I see this in my friends and family. Probably 80%+ of my acquaintences view their cars as appliances, and would be uncomfortable in a showroom of "performance" cars.
The key for Lincoln is to define what they want to be as a company and a brand. Then design every car and truck around that. Unfortunately for the LS, I don't see performance as part of the equation. But with the LS selling well (at least in my opinion), I think the model is something that Lincoln will keep and invest in for many years - just as they are doing with the '04.
The interesting thing is that if Cadillac kills off the current DeVille in 2 years, Lincoln could have the luxury land yatch market all to itself with the Town Car.
I still got mine -- any advice on how much an extended warranty costs? -- it's paid off and I think I'll keep it a while.
In fact, my wife is going to buy a 2003 V6 -- 2 LS's in the family? Who woulda thought...
Insurance companies spread the risk among many owners, and come out ahead. I spread my risk among many products, and come out ahead.
If I had banked all the money I did not spend on extended warranties (Automobiles, Appliances, TV, Stereo, Power tools, etc.), then drawn from that account to pay for any failures, I'm sure that account would have a healthy balance now.
Man, no kidding. I had to order an '85 Capri 5.0 HO, they didn't have any in stock when I bought mine. The dealer looked at it like it was going to bite him or he would get cooties touching it. I absolutely loved that car, it was one of the best cars I've owned. Factory headers, duals with a crossover pipe, low restriction cats, 750 Holley 4 bbl carb, and it didn't look like every 4 cyl Mustang on the road. Lots of good memories and burned bald rear tires, ah, memories...
The Merkur thing is right on as well, you think they don't know what to do with the LS, they were totally clueless with the Merkur.
Well, at least we have the LS, I'm quite happy with my 2000 V8 Sport, been one of the most reliable cars I've owned. More low end grunt would be nice, as well as a LSD, but it's a great car all the same. Handles better than the Capri, but I still miss the burnouts. <g>
My LS had some problems upon delivery -- bad communication problems due to a (electronically) noisy abs unit -- caused every warning light to go out on the console panel. Took Lincoln a few weeks to track down the problem, 'cause the car was new to the Lincoln mechanics too.
No real problems since then - replaced those rear window lifters, had a sticky thermostat, replaced an automatic transmission shift-lever sensor switch that failed -- all under warranty, and my mechanic is real competent.
About a month ago, the car had a complete shut-down 141 miles from home, in Palm Desert. The engine just stopped. Would not crank, would not start. Every conceivable message center warning popped up. Turns out the alternator blew out -- and took the computer with it! Three weeks for the dealer out there to find all the problems and fix 'em (they also cracked the windsheild while servicing the car -- so they replaced that too under warranty). Lincoln picked up most of the car rental, and has been very good to me during the years I owned the car (but I miss J. Rogers at the other end of an e-mail -- he really set a great tone for customer service).
Anyway, if I keep the car, I think I better gat an extended warranty. But I still think enough of the LS to encourage my wife to get one too.
You guys understand why we have this kind of brand loyalty.
nvbanker:
I believe what drives the owners club and the car's loyalty is that we get an American car that is at least equal (or better in some cases) to a BMW for tens of thousands of dollars less. You also don't see yourself in the mirror every few miles. Great handling car, subtle, classic design, what's not to like!?!?!
I looked at a lot of other cars during my search to replace it (Acura, Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Pontiac (liked the new Grand Prix 2004)but when I went to return mine I was amazed at the price I was offered...24k out the door...simply couldn't refuse.
I do miss some the 'extra's' I had on the 2000, but I am once again thrilled with the performance. There is a difference between the two, but I'm adapting and still have that 'grin'!
It takes very little steering wheel input to keep it on-line. Even with irregular road surfaces and crosswinds.
Compare it to a Lexus. If a driver pays attention, he/she will notice how much driver intervention is necessary just to keep the car on-course. This manifests itself after a 2-4 hour drive in a Lexus with thoughts of: "Sure was a quiet, smooth, luxurious ride, but just not much fun ... seemed to be more work than I expected."
To repeat what I've said before: The Lincoln LS is laser-straight, and seems to know where I'm headed.
This kind of connection with the car, vs. Lexus' disconnection, makes a world of difference in the driving experience, and my feelings toward the car. Something that simply cannot be overcome by marble-floored show rooms, free Starbucks, or slick driving machine slogans.
FOMOCO: You NAILED this aspect of the vehicle. Too bad it's so difficult to communicate to potential buyers.
I'm never buying a HP computer again.
Also, after spending two years in a car with a good Nav system, it's a 'must' for my next vehicle purchase.
One of many examples: I know that I exit I-94 onto 127 Northbound in a couple of miles, but I don't know whether I exit from the left lane or right. The Nav. lady tells me ~ 2 miles in advance.
This alone has avoided high-risk situations a number of times ... particularly in strange cities with serpentine expressways.
I was a half hour late in attending our Dallas club meeting. I was in charge of bringing the Speed Channel LS review video plus I had all my tools to assist in a Magnaflow install.
Arriving at the dealership, I didn't see any of the familiar LS's in the parking lot. Then the place seemed darker than usual. Sure enough the dealer was closed for the long weekend and had forgotten to advise us. But where were the guys? I called the chapter director on his cell and he gave me directions to a pizza joint they were meeting at. I drove up there and opened my trunk to bring all the tools into the restaurant to make a point that I was ready to work. The minute I closed the trunk, my heart sank as I knew I had just locked the keys in.
I went in and mentioned this to the group. Several offered to drive me home to pick up my extra keys. I mentioned that it would take the better part of 21/2 hours for the round trip. Then I recalled the Lincoln help line. I called and within 30 minutes I was back in my car. No fuss or papers to sign just great service. Keep that in mind if you end up in a similar situation.
PS, the LS has quite the security system. Even after I was back in the car, I couldn't open the trunk because the alarm system was still active. Fortunately, I had the valet key in the glove box which allowed me to start the car and deactivate the system. It all works together.
The Continentals on the 6 are not yet worn in, so I can't accurately compare them to the Firehawks -- That look like they got another 5-10K left on 'em.
I'm impressed with the new interior "freshening." The slide-forward arm rest is a good idea, and putting the side-mirror controls on the door console makes intuitive sense.
I'm not so sure about the "nickel" finish center stack -- I put fake wood on the 2000 stack to match the wood trim, which maybe a bit too "AARP", but the nickel looks plastic to me (which it is) and after being "educated" in cool nicel finishes on electronics (i.e. the Palm Pilot, the digital camera, and jewelry) the "imitation" quotient for the LS interior is a bit high. The plastic wood looked real. The vinyl seat sections are almost indistinguishable from the leather surfaces -- but the silver plastic center stack fools no-one except in photographs.
The keyless entry system solves chartrand's recent problem, and the "bounce-back" front windows with full auto up as well as down on both sides is a welcome addition.
That's two sales, and establishing brand loyalty, the Lincoln accomplished -- in the face of a lot of unintended technical problems. Hope Lincoln underestands why J. Rogers strategy of supporting enthusiasts is so important.
If it is a loaded V6, like a Premium model, $28,100 is a GOOD price. If it is a Base V6 with no or few options you should be able to do better. As a reference, the dealers around me quickly sold most of their leftover 2002 LS V8's when they lowered the price to $29,999, that's for various V8 Premium and Sport models that stickered for $39K to $41K.
Grizzlydad, What year V6 did you get, 2002 or 2003? To me the 2003 V6 does not feel much slower than my 2000 V8. The '00 V8 has better passing acceleration eg. 60-80 but other than that the 2003 V6 feels pretty good.
So catherine9 shop around I know there are deals to be had out there.
By the way, the price was quite reasonable at about $4,500 below suggested retail, and 'cause I know the owner of the dealership, buying the car was a pleasure (don't need the marble and glass showroom -- just need an honest straight shooter to settle on a price).
Let's see if Lincoln gives the second owner in the household the royal treatment they gave us "pioneers."
When the LS was introduced (& now, for that matter) it appealed to people who wanted a true performance sedan. It even had a manual. In time, we all thought the manual would be extended to the V8.
Instead, the manual was eliminated altogether (mostly because the dealer cabal didn't want to deal with it), and the dealers pretty much shunned (or at least appeared really clueless regarding) the LS. Even so, many were distributed to the Lincoln faithful and a handful of enthusiasts as well. To this day, any enthusiast who shows up at a Lincoln dealership, having visited BMW, Audi & Infiniti stores is going to be, shall we say, unimpressed by the experience -- until they drive the car. My guess is that many walk away prior to that point. The year-over-year LS figures indicate that the white-shoe sales force isn't getting the job done, as far as the LS is concerned. Then there's that advertising thing, which is getting better, but only in "selected markets." The competition is going all-out.
More's the pity. It's a great car, and if the corporation hadn't gone upside-down exactly when the LS needed an infusion of upgrades and additional models, we'd likely be looking at an entirely different scenario today.
Anyway, I got my manual, flutes & touch-up paint and am waiting to see if my LS delivers the kind of long-term reliability I needed when I bought it. Sorry those of you with the post card didn't jump into the pool sooner.
It's a great car, but the company producing it is stone broke and trying to make up the difference selling trucks.
It'll be interesting to see how this turns out.