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Comments
Just a thought...
-Paul
I have had it in the dealer 3 times for the heat.
1st problem heat not working well - Dealer did not find anything wrong with car.
2nd Heat not working well and the smell of exhaust fumes. Dealer replace thermostat did not detect presence of exhaust smell.
3rd Heat working better but not great. Then see and smell exhaust fumes coming from interior vents.
Dealer had car for 3 days. Stated had car running for 1/2 hr with no smell and no fumes seen.
Has anyone had this problem? Any info would be appreciated.
Thanks Dana
I have heard of several people who have had heat problems where they either would get no heat or the opposite full blast heat. IIRC that problem is due to the temp control mixing valve getting stuck due to particles in the coolant. With 80K miles on your LS has the coolant been changed and /or the cooling system flushed?
If you're planning to keep your next LS for quite awhile and actually buy it, the '03 would be my recommendation -- the price reductions knock your socks off. If you're leasing, or buying to keep only a few years, that extra model year is a big, big deal. Go with the '04.
Either way, you'll enjoy your new car.
My dinosaur (nearly no options, and old) '00 manual is running like a top and I'm hoping to drive it well beyond 100K miles. I'm at 62K now and expect to get through the next year without significant issues. My last "Big 3" American-designed vehicle went way, way south in its fourth year, with about the same mileage my LS will acquire in the next 12 months. I'm fairly confident the LS will show its mettle, but you never know.
The shame is that the LS on the DEW98 platform will either be eliminated (by Ford beancounters) or the LS mantle will be placed on a much lesser car (by the same crowd).
Oh well. . .
Having owned a Y2K LS8 Sport, and now an almost identical ‘03, my sentiments exactly.
I bought an ‘03 this month (800 happy [s]miles! So far!) and here was my thinking:
Briefly, I saw no significant differences mechanically or cosmetically, and I looked over a couple of ‘04s and ‘03s carefully. One thing that did change was the free maint. Better deal on the ’03!!! Oh, and I believe the heated / cooled front seats are NOT standard on the ’04 Sport.
The point about leasing vs. purchase is legit. I purchased mine, and buying a “leftover” puts me in a low mileage vehicle, compared to many ‘03s sold as long as a year ago, and now with 5K 10K or more miles. When I trade, in 3 years +/-, I will likely have an average miles car.
I expect that, if you can afford either one, then either one would be a terrific choice. Nice to have that kind of choice! If you can not find an ‘03 with the options and color combo. that works for you, you can even order an ’04.
Cheers,
- Ray
Vroom, vroom . . .
The biggest change is that the #1 cross member - the cradle the radiator sits in - is stronger on the '04's. This change was made to improve NVH. The front springs and sway bar mounts are also changed again as part of the NVH improvement.
The 04 trannie has a bleed valve to make for quicker shifting into reverse.
2 new paint colors, interior colors are a little bit different, but similar to the '03's.
Starting with Dec. production the auto wipers were deleted - that is early '04's that are still on dealer lots will have the auto wipers.
The Alpine & THX audio systems have provision for Sirius satellite radio.
Complementary maintenance is only 12 mo / 12K miles instead of 36 mo / 36K miles (warranty is still 48 mo / 50K miles).
There may be a few other minor changes, but that's about it.
Leaky valve covers result in damage to the spark plug coils and some engine stuttering occurs...as was read in the engine diagnostics when my dash gave an engine warning light.
To do the gasket replacement you need either the kit of gaskets and "O" Rings or separate gaskets and "O" Rings.
As luck would have it, the kits are out of stock nation-wide.
The other pisser is that it takes some time to remove the valve covers and replace the gaskets...easily a $400.00 job if you are not under warranty.
The LS is a great car but if you are not under warranty the usual failures can cost.
The other costly issue I'm dealing with is sway bar bushing replacement....The current front-end clunking is almost unbearable. I have already replaced the right ball joint and it is highly possible that the left one is also contributing to the clunking.
I just had an engine stumble a few weeks ago, and my dealer diagnosed a slightly underperforming coil-on-plug (COP) unit. They replaced it under warranty even though it was still operating within spec. Of course, this service visit was within 2 days of going out of warranty . . .
On the bright side, there was no sign of oil contamination on the replaced COP. Also, at 40K miles, my sway bar bushings are still performing as they should (i.e., no clunking), but I imagine this is related to total miles driven.
I am contemplating doing the gaskets myself.
The oil leakage does damage to the COP units so a few of them may need to also be replaced. While I'm at it, I might as well change the plugs.
I should have gotten the extended warranty.....What was I thinking!
I might need a CTS-V to hold me over til Lincoln does it's 06 version. ;-) (I wonder what insurance will cost on that sucker??)
Slunar
You said:
<<The front springs and sway bar mounts are also changed again as part of the NVH improvement.>>
True and...
The front springs were changed to soften the ride.
The swaybars were downsized accordingly and the bushings were bonded to them to avoid the bad clunking bushing problems of past years where the bushings dried up and and and....
The service department can read it if it throws a code.
In my case the engine light confirmed what I had been feeling.
Stuttering, reduction of power etc...
In two years from now, I will be seriously considering the new SVT Mustang Cobra, as I will no longer need to accommodate a child safety seat in the back. Much of the SVT Cobra underpinnings should be along the lines of what LS enthusiasts have been clammoring for . . . minus the luxury, refinement and size of course.
Hope springs eternal that Lincoln will step up and give the Caddie folks some competition. But all the news coming out of Detroit says AWD, Continental, New Towncar?, larger DEW platform variant. And of course dragging around Mercury. (Ford’s version of Oldsmobile)
It is that” larger DEW platform variant” that intrigues some of us. But in order for Lincoln to build a hi-po LS they would have to beef up the rear end and go to a LSD, tweak the rear suspension, add big brakes, add 6 speed manual and 6 speed auto. If designed correctly they could build it into the next model change but there seems to be no real rumors with any substance. It is hard to imagine that they could do a hi-po number on the current model towards the end of it’s run. So maybe in 06 ???
Engines Wow Ford has excellent selections 4.6, Jag 4.2SC, 5.0, GT(40), V10 etc 2 valve 3 valve, 4 valve they have seemingly limitless possibilities
The irony here is that Lincoln engineering is fabulous if allowed to be creative. But they (Lincoln and its parent Ford) have yet to declare war. Darryl Hazel wants sweeping changes to create the unique brand image and reputation that Lincoln Mercury is sorely lacking. But we have not seen any evidence that Ford is behind him. Maybe we will? I sure hope so.
Bob Lutz went to GM with the understanding that decisions will be made and that he really didn't need to come out of retirement to play GM politics. So it can be argued that he is once again creating a very exciting time for the General.
At the recent LA auto show the LS was a background event. They didn't even have the new sharp-looking 04 LSE to show the vast West Coast audience. "A drivers luxury car" is the new tag line used in the new TV ads I see on the tube here. A good ad I must say!
Cadillac is doing it right.
Their products have that "DNA" thing.
Big SUV, X-over vehicle, pickup, Large Sedan, 4 door sedan and V-Series version, 2-door luxury sports car. And they are letting the leaks become much more than rumor...thus creating the ever-important buzz!
Enough and not enough.
Amen.
First you gotta wanna. Ford doesn't. Lincoln doesn't, and the nine guys within Lincoln who do (or did) have been promoted, transferred and/or ignored. Stick a fork in it.
I just think that $$ is a bigger factor than exectuve decisions.
Makes me sad, the LS is a great car I am now on my second one, with no real problems to talk about...just great performance and satisfaction; the LS grin is for real. It's unfortunate that the folks at Ford don't or won't understand that.
In the end it all comes back to $$$. The spirit is willing but the wallet is empty.
That's why I like the new Lincoln pickup. Almost no R&D costs so it will be very profitable (no blackwood comparisons please - it's totally different) and generate more cash.
We've heard conflicting stories on the demise of the LS as we know it. One anonymous person said the best (LS) is yet to come and the future is bright. However I think we also heard that 2 years ago so best to just wait and see.
Thanks again for the help. This is a great car and I hope they keep making it.
Dana
I can also agree with Allen's hypothesis about why Lincoln seems to be abandoning the LS, but it also seems to be short-sighted on Lincoln's part to squander such a world-class engineering effort that the LS represents. FMC/Lincoln-Mercury should have "found" the money to put into the LS because it is such a great vehicle, especially when compared to ANYTHING within the entire Ford Motor Company portfolio of vehicles. The LS wins on the value equation no matter how you slice it.
In the short-term, my wife and I will be buying a new ('04) Aviator very soon. Between her travel schedule, and the lack of suitably equipped Aviator anywhere near Arizona we haven't had the chance to finish a deal. Soon though.
After the Aviator though, I'm rather unsettled as to where my future car expenditures will go. All the reports say that the LS and the Aviator will go the way of the dinosaur. These have been the nearly the only vehicles I've been excited about over the past 5 years. A SVT Mustang Cobra does sound exciting, but I'd hate to give up the Lincoln refinement and creature comforts that I've grown accustomed to.
Thanks again for the help. This is a great car and I hope they keep making it.
Dana
Some details of the rumors that are floating around are:
The front suspension will change to a strut suspension similar to the 2005 Mustang in order to accomodate the 4.6L mod. motors.
Look to the MK-X and Aviator crossover concepts for exterior design clues.
AWD will be available.
6 speed auto. will be available.
But of course, mid 2006 is 2-1/2 years from now and as you know, anything can happen between now and then.
As far as the 2006 SVT Mustang goes, 500 HP, IRS and the M3 is its design target are re-occuring rumors.
I saw the Lincoln ads yesterday too. Everything but the LS. The next page had an ad by a local Lincoln dealership and it had an '04 LS V8 Sport advertised for $29,999 or $12,500 under MSRP. That's not a good combo. No LS in the Lincoln sponsored ad and huge discount in the dealer ads. I'm hoping it's simply because it's winter and their not pushing the performance RWD vehicle. Maybe the ads will be a little more favorable to the LS in the spring.
Steve, thanks for the update on rumor central. If the LS survives past '06, do you really think they'll can the unequal length A-arms in favor of struts???? Ugh. The Mustang is getting more appealing all the time . . . though I'd definitely be seeking out the SVT Cobra hardtop with IRS and all the other hi-po stuff.
However, the 2005 Mustang shown on the Cover of the Feb. '04 Car and Driver has definitely "lost something" from the initial concept/show car. Inevitable I suppose, but I'm hoping the aggressive/sporty edge will further develop in a year or two.
Thanks again for the help. This is a great car and I hope they keep making it.
Dana
As far as advertising, dealers will advertise what they can move, or discount to move, or have to move, etc. What Ford is doing with their ad dollars is probably more along the lines of what they can get the highest yield on. LS probably doesn't fit either today.
How can they move what the public is unaware of?
Advertise Town Cars > Town Cars Move > Advertise Town Cars > ...
Don't advertise LS > LS doesn't move, so no need to launch LS advertising. I must be missing something.
The LS enthusiasts have generally clamored for the stop and go power destined for the next gen Mustang, while keeping the size, ride, and handling of the current LS. Tall order? Maybe, but not impossible . . . just (highly) unlikely.
Allen, I won't disagree that the new Mustang is close to the concept car, but I still think it lost something in translation. I also imagine that the concept Mustang was styled for the Cobra buyer as opposed to the base GT buyer.
Supposedly the 3.9L V8 was going away at the end of 2005, but I read in a Lima, OH newspaper (Lima is where the 3.9 is made) that the 3.9 will still be built for some time. What "for some time" means is not defined. It could mean that it just will continue on until mid 2006 when the updated LS comes along.
The core problem with the LS is that it costs Ford too much to build it. The reason why it costs too much to build, is that the LS shares very little with any other N. American Ford vehicle, except the 2 seat T-Bird which is low volume and is going away in a year.
So the only way Ford can lower the production cost of future LS models is to make them share more basic parts with other Ford N. American models.
From everything I've heard the Ford engineers are pretty happy with the front suspension on the 2005 Mustang. It is VERY much different than the old Mustangs. It is a true McPherson strut with the coil springs around the struts like BMW uses.
The media kit releases on the Mustang talks about how the front roll center has been raised and about the coil over setup, so it appears that Ford is very much in tune with the need to improve hangling and ride comfort in the new Mustang. (Too low a front roll center and too high a rear roll center is a major problem on the present Mustang.) One of the articles from Ford even talks about how the new 05 suspension will be better for Mustang owners who change the springs and ride height, so they certainly seem to have performance in mind.
I don't know if you've seen the renderings of the 05 Mustang suspension, but the lower control arms look very sexy and somewhat like whoever did the Mustang suspension must have worked on or was influenced by the LS.
So I gues what I'm saying is that if the 2006.5 LS looses its double wishbone front suspension it's not the end of the world, after all the darling of the automotive press, BMW uses strut type front suspension.
As for a revised, McPherson strut suspension needed to "make room" for the mod motors in the LS engine bay . . . I've ridden in a LS with the 4.6 mod motor installed back in 2002. In fact, the engine had been bored to 5.0 liters and mated to a Tremec 6-speed MANUAL transmission. Of course, this was a LS test mule on the Dearborn Proving Grounds test track, but aside from larger wheels and larger, crossed-drilled disc brakes, springs and sway-bars, the car was otherwise stock. I know the current LS already has to engine bay space to accommodate the 4.6 L mod motors (though maybe not to production specifications, as rail transport issues, amongst others have a significant influence).
I'm not saying it's the end of the world here either, but McPherson struts on the LS DOES represent a backward step in evolution, IMO.
Perhaps my recollection is wrong, but when my group of enthusiasts was taken from the Dearborn Proving Grounds to go to one of Ford's CAD design centers, I could have sworn we were told that the 4.6 mod motor COULD be installed from underneath. I suppose that, in order for that to happen, the front suspension components would have to be installed AFTER the engine was installed, but we didn't get to that level of detail in the discussion . . . it was more of an overall capability overview we were presented with. The plant layout at Wixom (which I've toured twice now) probably wouldn't be flexible enough to accommodate engine installation BEFORE the lower control arms, but I'm in no position to make that assessment. In any event, I trust the Ford people know what they're talking about and are only doing what makes sense for them to do. I'm not even sure where the Mustang will be assembled.
I also agree that the Mustang based DEWlite chassis has loads of potential for the performance enthusiast . . . I'm just not sure about the potential for the Luxury Sport enthusiast, which, IMO is a very different segment.
The DOHC version may not fit.
Remember - it's not what you start with it's what you end up with that counts.
At the current OTD price for an '03, and with the current (un-subsidized) "cost of money", I agree.
- Ray
Voted with $$s . . .
ABSOLUTELY! And, as Ray points out, the price just makes better, because it's by far the best value on the road today.