Lincoln LS

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  • heyjewelheyjewel Member Posts: 1,046
    Artie et al gov't workers:

    Thanks for taking my poke at (MidWest) gov't workers in jest. I too was a gov't worker once (NASA for 7 years). Good thing there was no internet then, I'd never have gotten anything done!

    Nuff said.

    George
  • reneleblancreneleblanc Member Posts: 144
    About three years ago, my wife thinks she experienced "unintended acceleration" in our 1996 Ford Taurus LX Wagon. She had been waiting for a red light, and when it turned green and all oncoming traffic had passed, she started up, making a left turn onto a divided 4-lane street. Before she realized what was happening, the car had accelerated so quickly that she couldn't make the turn without bouncing off the right-hand curb. She said she began braking, but couldn't get the car under control until she had crossed over to the left lane and hit that curb and on down the street for almost a full block! Fortunately, she avoided hitting any other cars, and all the damage was confined to the rims and the right-front suspension.

    Like the other posters who expressed extreme skepticism about true instances of "SUA" I too find all this difficult to believe, except I also have a LOT of trust in my wife! I am 99% certain that I would have been quick to turn off the key, but I am far more mechanically inclined than she is. She was so busy trying to control the vehicle and standing on the brake that she didn't have a hand free to reach for the key, or a brain pathway available to think of trying.

    Our Ford dealer, who fixed the car after this episode, tested everything they could think of regarding the fuel injection system, the accelerator linkage, the cruise control, and could not find anything abnormal. We have driven that car another 20-25 thousand miles ith no recurrence of anything even remotely like this problem.

    I too, expected that the brakes could override the engine, but during my investigation of this situation I learned something interesting. The power brakes get their power from the engine vacuum. When the throttle is only slightly open, there is a continuous vacuum. BUT!!!! WHEN THE THROTTLE IS WIDE OPEN, THE VACUUM IS GREATLY REDUCED! The vacuum is created by the engine pumping air through the throttle body across the high restriction of the butterfly valve. When that is wide open, there is very little vacuum generated.

    Theory:
    1. For UNKNOWN reason the throttle sticks wide open.
    2. Wife struggles with car as it turns corner, bouncing off curbs and standing on brakes.
    3. Brake vacuum becomes depleted, eliminating the power assist.
    4. With all her strength breaking with little or no power assist, it takes her a full block to finally overcome the 200 HP engine blasting along in 1st gear.
    5. She finally regains enough control and composure to shut off engine.
    6. The throttle never sticks again.

    We researched the WEB for any similar instances being reported for Ford Taurus automobiles. We encountered one report that because the cruise control is designed so that there is always voltage applied to the servo circuit, even when the cruise control is switched off, a short circuit in the wrong place can actually activate the cruise control servo. Our dealer could not find any short in our cruise control.

    That is our story, and we never found proof of exactly what happened. However, before any of you bet all your beanie babies that your car's brakes can override the engine, try this experiment (waay far away on a totally isolated road):
    1. Come to a stop
    2. FLOOR the accelerator
    3. Leaving the accelerator floored, pump the brake repeatedly.
    4. See what happens.

    Prediction:
    Brakes initially try to slow car, but as vacuum is lost, the power assist fades to a fraction of its normal value. You'll have a He** of a time stopping the car unless you let the throttle close.
  • ezaircon4jcezaircon4jc Member Posts: 793
    You took the wind right out of my sails or the sweep off of my radar, to use a more correct analogy ;~). I think part of the reason we gommint employes get a bad rap is the "ridiculous" amount of leave we earn. I earn 208 hours of A/L and 104 sick. Of course in my live of "work" anytime I get even a cold and I need OTC meds, I'm medically disqualified. You wouldn't believe the meds that I can't take and work! The flip side is that we have to account for every minute that we aren't there for a scheduled shift (c'mon jury duty!!!). The real reason that we are used as fodder is management. I imagine even NASA is top heavy, I know the FAA is! Anyway I knew it was all in fun, but as I had to work today (they made us watch a movie on a near-midair :( ) I didn't have time to get on the net at work. You had already posted your "apology" by the time that I read all the pertainent and superflous posts. ;~>

    The '01 console still isn't in :(.
  • wamsley1wamsley1 Member Posts: 3
    WOW, That's all I can say about the LS. I've been in the car business for about 16 years now and never have I been this excited about a car until now. My wife and I was looking for a 2nd car when we came across the V-8 LS we were in awe the first time we drove this vehicle so much so that I went to work selling the Lincoln product. Once this car catches on to the younger buyer---watch out BMW and Lexus. Have fun all. Oh by the way we added the ground effects, rear spoiler, and custom wheels and a few more little things for fun.
  • ezaircon4jcezaircon4jc Member Posts: 793
    As long as I can't tell the difference between my steering wheel and shift handle, my vote is to keep the price down. After reading numerous articles, I was confused as to whether the wood was real or "woodette" (we all know that leatherette/pleather is really vinyl!). Even the auto rag writers couldn't tell the difference! Therefore my vote is keep the faux wood and add it to the radio on down. That makes a nice transition between the top of the dash and the WUD on the "face" of the dash. The console should also have the WUD, IMNSHO.
  • giowagiowa Member Posts: 599
    4/01 issue of R&T reporting that 5-speed manual version of Lexus IS300 will be out in August, but only 1,600 will be available for '01. Does go up to 4,800 for '02. Wonder what percentage of sales that would be for '02 projection? (I-6 haters: don't read the 4-car comparo test in this issue. IS300 & 330i ranked 1st & 2nd over MB C320 & Volvo S60 T5. IS300 pulled .91g. The cars, all 5-speed automatics, were blazingly quick 0-60, ranging 6.5 (330i)-7.1 (IS300) secs.)
  • scottc8scottc8 Member Posts: 617
    johhnylinc: Thanks for your thoughts on Exotic Wood installation. Never even thought of turning on the heater!

    As good as the fake wood looks, I like it, for ease of care if no other reason. If I could change one thing about the interior in my car it would be to cover the hard plastic with some fake leather. I traded a '95 Subaru Legacy LSi for my LS. There is of course no comparison between the two cars in terms of comfort, but the Subaru had soft vinyl on the sides of the console & dashboard surfaces, same color as the leather seats. It just looked a little more nicely "finished" than the LS. (Ducking here.)

    Welcome back, Jim.

    Scott
  • jbwcfpjbwcfp Member Posts: 86
    I agree with all the suggestions for more power for the v6 manual. If the manual is the performance version, why not 230 to 240 HP like Jaguar does with the same engine. More power than current model with out the weight of the V8 would make a nice blend.
    As far as the wood topic goes, if real wood looks the same why bother. There is a different feeling when viewing real wood though. I would pay a little more for it, I guess it should be an option, let the customer decide if it's worth the price.
    Jim W
  • raymmerraymmer Member Posts: 16
    Just got my '01 LS back from the dealer. This is the 3rd time I've had it there to have them make the trunk open with the remote! I was called mid-day and told it would be ready at 4:00. When I got there they had decided that they needed to do more work on it so I waited another 30 mins. So far it works, but this is the 3rd day of lost time! I got my LS on 2 Jan 01 and immediately noticed a high-pitched whirling sound that was related to use of the throttle. I was initially told that the sound was air blowing over the exhaust system(even when the car was still)! When I wouldn't buy that and finally after the shop forman rode with me, he immediately diagnosed the problem as the Alternator. He says that they all do that and that there's nothing they can do about it. All of you that have 01 LS-8s, do you have the same problem? Also, when the FADE control is in the center position of the radio/CD etc.. I hear more sound out of the front speakers and very little from the rear. Do your stereo's sound this way. Again I was told that Lincoln sets all there radios this way so they can get the "Concert Sound" effect! And I was born yesterday!
    I am not a happy camper! To top everything off today when I picked up my car the Service Manager told me that he would appreciate it if I gave them a glowing write-up on their evaluation that I get from Lincoln! Can you believe this! If I wasn't leasing this car I would try and get rid of it right away! Everytime I start it and hear that noise I think about all the choice things I can say about that service dept.
    I love the car, it's great on the road but these issues cloud an otherwise pleasant experience. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
  • drolds1drolds1 Member Posts: 247
    Air blowing over the exhaust system???!!! I will have to add this one to my list of classics. Are you sure they didn't say horse---t blowing over the exhaust system?

    Seriously though, no, a high-pitched whirling sound from the alternator, or anywhere else, is NOT normal. Maybe there is nothing they can do about it, but there is something you can do about it-find another dealer. Tell Brian to add them to the hall of shame. If that's not feasible, I'm sure Jim Rogers could help you.

    I fear that it's dealers like these that are going to undo a great thing.

    Air blowing over the exhaust system. I'll be laughing all day tomorrow. Can't wait to tell my car-savvy friends.
  • ls1bmw0ls1bmw0 Member Posts: 782
    Got the project LS-8 back from Magnaflow to drive around for a few days to provide feedback to the R&D dept. It felt soooooo good to have my LS back!
    Here are the initial impressions, totally personal, seat-of-the pants.

    Good news:

    1. At idle the car sounds like a C-5 Corvette. Under acceleration it sounds very muscular. You cannot mistake it for an import. Sounds very retro 60s muscle car. Very authoritative.

    2. With it in stealth mode right now(no tips showing just the downturn like stock) people look around and stare to see what car sounds like that.

    3. The current setup produces an additional, on average, 10 hp. This was based on an average taken on baseline and after modification on a chassis dyno.

    4. The replacement system will have most of the little bends of the stock system taken out. This will make for an easy owner installation if desired, since the majority of pipe is a straight piece.

    5. At highway speeds the car is very quiet, with just a hint of exhaust rumble. Accelerating under medium pressure produces a very satisfying snarl. Definite performance tone. The younger crowd will love it.

    Bad news:

    1. In its current state of development, there needs to be additional sound dampening done for the 1500-2000 RPM range under light engine loading, such as ascending a gradual slope. The resonance at this RPM and loading is rather loud and boomy inside and outside the car. This is a major annoyance, especially since the car gets into this RPM range often in rural driving. They will tweak the system to reduce or eliminate it. It is interesting that the tone is very deep. Reminded me of my 68 Pontiac Firebird Ram Air 400.
    So at this point the system isn't ready for prime time. By next week I should be able to test out their changes. I'm going to bring it back in on Thursday.

    Brian
  • heyjewelheyjewel Member Posts: 1,046
    Welcome to the club. You really went all-out with the options! About the spoiler: Did u get the Lincoln one or a wing type? If wing, where'd you get it?

    Thanks

    George
  • ls1bmw0ls1bmw0 Member Posts: 782
    Jim Rogers has enthusiastically agreed that having owner representatives from LLSOC would help generate interest in the LS and LLSOC at the NY Auto Show, which runs from April 14-22. I am recruiting LLSOC member volunteers who would like to help spread the word of LS and LLSOC at the show. Lincoln will provide tickets and refreshments and an area for the club. LLSOC will provide the event shirts for anyone who can volunteer to spend a minimum of four hours on any of the days of the show, especially on the busy nights and weekend. The more members that can show up the better. If this initial event works out we can count on being invited to more shows. This is a unique opportunity to be on the front lines, helping to convince people that they should check out a LS.

    Jim also indicated his willingness to have a LS Owners meeting while he is there in NY on either April 9,10 or 11. Jim is also checking to see what other Ford/Lincoln executives might be willing to participate.

    If any members are interested in volunteering for the show, please email me at: brian.gowing@llsoc put NY AUTO SHOW VOLUNTEER in the subject line, and let me know what days and times you can handle.

    Brian
  • ronniepoohronniepooh Member Posts: 339
    ..not only is it smooth and moves the LS just fine, not offense to V8 owners, but it is nice to not have to worry about these 11mpg issues and common "no start/flooding" problems many V8 owners seem to have. The V6 Duratech seems to be standing the test of time....
  • drolds1drolds1 Member Posts: 247
    Sorry. I was so hysterical over the dealer explanation that I forgot to address your other question.

    Do you have the standard system or the audiophile? I have the standard system and also find that with the Fade control set in the middle, there is little sound from the rears.

    Would you really consider getting rid of a car with these issues?
  • wkamwkam Member Posts: 14
    For all of the customers and friends that I have driven around town, not one mentioned whether the wood is real or plastic. The first thing they say when they step into the car is "Okay, what kind of car is this". When the bud catches their eyes, they always say "Nice" and when I step on the gas pedal they say "Who, even nicer."

    The reason why I leased my AS was to continually upgrade to a ewer AS such as a supercharger LSV8 6 speed manual. If BOW, nexus, Audio, etc. came out with a similar vehicle, I will have to do my new car shopping all over again. It's interesting that the six speed transmission is listed as one of the preferred options wanted by AS owners on the llsoc website.

    Still hoping,

    Wes
  • wkamwkam Member Posts: 14
    Darn spell checker.

    Have a good day,

    Wes
  • wamsley1wamsley1 Member Posts: 3
    Thanks for your welcome. To answer your question we went with the licoln type--I'll do some research on the wing and get back with you.

    Take care,

    Wamsley1
  • wamsley1wamsley1 Member Posts: 3
    jewel: If you go to www.TheSpoilerGuys.com you might find what you're looking for. The business is located in Phoenix, Az and it's called blankenship, phone # 480-894-2345. Let me know if this helps.

    Good luck,

    wamsley1
  • jerry2281jerry2281 Member Posts: 97
    I have had two experiences with unintended acceleration. I owned 2 Audi 5000's and 1 Audi 100 in the '80's, but never had any problem with them re: u/a. I did have problems with a 75 VW Scirocco and a 97 Ford Expedition 4.6 V-8.

    The Scirocco's butterfly valve in the throttle body froze open immediately after a carwash in below freezing weather and full acceleration. VW had a service bulletin and promptly repaired under warranty. It was caused by ice forming on the butterfly valve and freezing it in the open position. Very scary since it was so unexpected. The brakes did stop the car, but required all my effort.

    The Ford Expedition did the same thing when I got on it with full acceleration. It took almost a block to stop in heavy traffic from about 50 mph. It too required all my effort to stop and get to the shoulder safely. The concern was that if I shifter to neutral to coast to the side of the road, I would blow the engine. I tried it again in a safer place and duplicated the problem. Drove straight to the Dealer, talked to Service Manager who knew of a new service bulletin containing a fix. It required a new accelerator cable, due to a bind in the stock cable which caused the throttle to stick wide open. They ordered the cable, was replaced in a few days and never had a problem again.
  • jerry2281jerry2281 Member Posts: 97
    Bought 2001 LS V8 Sport with Dec 8 build date and factory phone. Tried to program with voice dialing yesterday but to no avail. After visiting with a very nice customer service rep at Lincoln toll-free number, I was told that when RESCU option was discontinued for 2001 models, voice dailing option went away.

    I am very disappointed since factory phone is very hard to dial when driving because it sets so far back on the console.

    I asked him about 2002 LS phone and he said they have been told that a new phone is on it's way, probably digital and will not retrofit 2001's. Oh POOP! I hope Lincoln will change their minds and offer retrofit, since a better phone is deserved by current LS owners.

    jrogers-Can you brief LS owners on this or llsoc forum when new model or running changes/options are released? At least at the same time infor is released to Dealers. I hated reading the Premium Package infor by stumbling across it on Edmunds. I, for one, visited the Edmonds LS site for 8 months before purchasing my LS V8. If I was a potential buyer, I would expect the most up-to-date information regarding LS options. Thanks.

    FYI: 2002 Thunderbird infor is now available on Edmunds site.
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,193
    Called the dealer this morning - talked with the service manager.

    FAXed the Reflash TSB info. from the LLSOC site. (Thanks again, Brian!)

    Talked with the service manager again. He states that my (Nov. 1999 build) is not on his list of the "select few" (his words) that this applies to. He FAXed me the info (from www.fordtechservice.com) that he was looking at. He claims that my current calibration (reflashed once - in early 2000 - is not on his list. His info. on my car lists Calibration as: 9WHABAFA

    The list he FAXed me does not show this calibration.

    He also informed me that the problems this Reflash is designed to address were "normal characteristics" of the trans.

    So - help, please? Now what do I do? Any suggestions? Mark?

    When I had this done by the dealer I purchased the car from (in another state) it was handled perfectly.

    TIA!
    - Ray
    Who is now so discouraged with this process.......
    2022 X3 M40i
  • thomas_lthomas_l Member Posts: 134
    You're preaching to the converted. However, my 8/99 build does have the RESCU but is still analog and no there is not a retrofit. Period. None of the cellular providers even want to sell analog service anymore. It's a great feature and I love using it, but DAMN! It's a real shame when you get nailed for nearly $1100 on a system that can't even be serviced or upgraded to current (post 1995) technology in a 2000 (now almost 2002) car. Yes I have heard the rationale about using analog - phooey, I'm not a believer. I have owned a dual-mode portable phone since 1996. Not to mention the fact that Motorola, Lincoln, and any national wireless provider act as though the phone system in the LS doesn't exist (kinda like that cold dead stare and eye rolling you get at McDonalds if you try to special order). I have scoured the web and news postings, made a few phone calls and found nothing useful. Not to mention my analog phone service has gone up too - 60 min + weekends costs me as much as most 600 minute digital plans! As much as I like the use of this phone, not to mention the fact it added over $1000 to the price of my car, I am getting closer to stopping service, remove it, and put a box of Tic-Tacs in the console instead. You would think that there would be some sort of solution at least in the works, either a retrofit or maybe Lincoln could cut a deal and re-sell at a deep discount some analog service.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Ray - which dealer is this? Thomas had good luck with Wade in Alpharetta - try them.
  • drolds1drolds1 Member Posts: 247
    Interesting how you owned 2 Audi 5000's and never had an unintended acceleration. You should have submitted them to CBS news so they could rig them to accelerate into the side of NBC News' Chevy pick-up that was rigged to explode. Sorry for the sarcasm. Touchy issue for me as the main proponent of the Audi lawsuits lived in my neighborhood and was the wife of the guy who owned the dry cleaners I patronized. When the whole thing turned out to be a sham and Audi was exonerated, she ended up having to pay 2 $10,000 penalties under a little-publicized non-meritorious lawsuit law. Little consolation for the damage done to the co. and its dealers. How many lives and families were ruined by the economic losses at the hands of those looking for a paycheck from a big corporation? My neighbor's father had just opened a new, state-of-the-art Audi facility when it hit the fan. It was boarded up within a few months.

    Sorry for the rant. This really isn't the place for this. All I started out to say was that the difference in your experience is that a cause and fix were immediately available, as opposed to the "phantom" incidents.

    BTW-that phone situation really sucks.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    What you described was "Unintended Acceleration" caused by a faulty throttle and I would think that to be a fairly common occurrence. However, the car stopped when the brakes were applied. The "Uncontrollable Acceleration" incidents are different in that the driver reports that the brakes were not able to stop the vehicle during the incident yet are in perfect working order immediately thereafter.
  • joe166joe166 Member Posts: 401
    I can't imagine that you ended up paying much for the factory phone. My dealer had every one that had come in still on his lot. Analog phones just don't sell any more and it doesn't matter if they are better or not. Remember Sony Betamax? Much superior to VHS. Seen any lately? VHS took over the marketplace and so has digital phone technology. Give it up! Salvage what you can by using the wiring, the microphone and the flip out bracket and install (or have someone do it for you) a Motorola Startac digital. It doesn't really just swap, but it is a good phone that fits in the minute console and hooks up to the bracket.
  • mkovalskmkovalsk Member Posts: 114
    Ray,

    I'm working on it. Your calibration should be updated. I asked about your calibration and below is the answer I received. I'm now working with Service Engineering to get to the bottom of it. You are the first one I have heard about that the dealer couldn't find in the TSB.
    *******
    Mark,

    9WHA-BAFA is the 9WHA-BAF calibration (the last A just means w/air conditioning). This is the Job #1 level for the U.S. Sport package and was replaced by the BAG, BAH running change calibrations.

    9WHA-BAFA should be serviced with the 1LQ18S0506 calibration and 1U7A-FA module (I assume 1U7Z-FA is the service number).
  • airwolf1000airwolf1000 Member Posts: 225
    Mark I posted a question asking about my calibration back in Feb 13 Post #788 or 789. My dealers said I had the latest based on my Calibration You must have been out during the time I didn't receive another response. Could you let me know? Here is an excerpt from the original message.

    Mark, Regarding the Tranny, The dealer says I have the latest calibration. My car has never been reflashed and I have a build date of 2/8/2000. I don't
    know how this is possible. My dealer said he talked to ford tech support who told him this fact. My question is how can I have the latest code that just
    came out in Mid January when my car had not been touched since the day before LS-MANIA and since I have never had a reflash. By the way one
    quick code that the service rep didn't know exactly what it was had an Identifier Automatic: 9WHABAHA Could you please enlighten me.

    Please let me know what they need so that my dealer will do the TSB.

    Regards,

    Victor
  • einarvikngeinarvikng Member Posts: 21
    Ok Here's one I have yet to read about.

    After a car wash, rain or snow, windows get wet as many a three days later when I operate the windows. My fear is moisture is being traped in the door compartments which can't be a good thing.

    I brought it in, the tech said he would check the drain holes. Got the car back, no cahnge.

    Has anyone else noticed this? Is it just the window seals rewetting the windows, or am I picking up moisture trapped in th doors?

    Also, I unfortuneatley have the standar stereo package and I am not happy with it at all. Does anyone know where I can get the specs on what is there? Speaker impeadence, watts, dB/watt etc. I would like to keep the front end unaltered, I can't bear to change the dash, but would like to up the rest of the system.

    Thanks for the input,

    Scott
  • klarson1klarson1 Member Posts: 60
    according to the latest Consumer Reports the LS is rate as very poor reliability with the V6 being rate below the V8.... where do they get this info anyway???
    and they keep harping on the lack of storage space.... who cares!!
  • mkovalskmkovalsk Member Posts: 114
    Victor,

    I must have missed that post. Sorry!

    I'll check on your calibration. I am certain that you do not have the latest calibration, but like the previous post it seems that some calibration codes may be missing from the TSB. I'll find out and let you know.

    Mark
  • jondjond Member Posts: 43
    Here is the latest in my saga to get my LS8 re flashed with TB 01-01-05. Dealer I purchased from is unable to do it. They tried and failed (I think glad to be rid of me on that problem as they have never called back). Took it to another dealer in my area who checked with the etch who was going to do the work and he said "bring it in" we can do it. Took the car in and after an hour of fooling around with it, they said the computer would not do the re flash on my 2000 S. They did not know why. Said something about the DC they received having a virus and they had to download some software from Ford, and data, data, data, --they did not understand it either. High tech cars are nice, but not when they can not be fixed by the dealers.

    Bottom line, I need the reflash to correct the dangerous condition I have when I have to WAIT for the car to go from R to D5. It goes into D5 when it gets darn good and ready.

    I am really frustrated. Wasted another hour plus at yet another dealer with no success. Can anyone from Lincoln (Mark??)HELP on this issue.

    I am wondering if our states Lemon Law will help me out on this one? Anyone tried that? I am at the point where I am willing to try most anything to get this resolved. Has this issue been reported to the NTSB yet? Anyone know? I think it is dangerous and may merit a mandatory recall. Of course, this would mean the dealers would actually have to be able to apply the TSB. I do not understand why it is so complicated.
  • cb44cb44 Member Posts: 87
    ...everytime something unflattering is written about the LS, it means there must be a conspiracy.

    Consumer Reports reliability scores are based on reader input, so one then must assume that this board does not attract CR readers.

    It is much easier for an evangelist to ignore items that may in fact may irk others who are not as into the LS as most are here. The average car buyer is not chasing down things like 9WHA-BAF calibration data or sport exhausts.

    When you shoot high as the LS has, expect some arrows.
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,193
    Mark -

    Again, I do sincerely appreciate all your efforts!

    BTW: The dealer is Baranco - about 3 miles form where I live, in Dulut, GA - north of Atlanta...

    - Ray

    Still holding out hope!
    2022 X3 M40i
  • thomas_lthomas_l Member Posts: 134
    Is pretty much a wash. In fact, when I decided to buy, I was focused on getting a pearl white V8 sport and the rest of the options were just neat stuff. I didn't special order, but decided to take a demo. I asked if they had the exact same car with a sunroof instead of a phone, but no dice. So I took it as is (every option except the sunroof) and the phone was part of the deal. I didn't really think much of it until I had it activated and used it. It works great and the RESCU has been used a few times to get directions. If Lincoln would just partner with an analog provider and improve the availability/price of the analog service I would be thrilled.

    For what its worth: When I studied up on the new C-class before buying, their phone option is a Motorola Timeport (digital) with or without hands-free, and integrated into the stereo and or navigation system. My wife has a phone that she rarely uses and the C240 was also a demo (as-is, I guess we're both impatient ;-D) deal without the phone, so she really didn't care. The Tele-Aid (similar to RESCU) is standard and requires no separate cellular activation. After the 1st year it will cost just under $20/month to keep it activated. It also can be used to track the car in case of theft and can remotely unlock it. I picked up the brochures for the CLK and E class and they have the same options. A much better deal - the options price out about the same without the navigation rig - and at least it's current technology.
  • thomas_lthomas_l Member Posts: 134
    Wade in Alpharetta has been great. However (he he) last time I was in for the seat heater (December) they claimed they were unable to do the reflash because they were getting password errors on the download. I have gotten used to waiting for the gear change so I just said OK we'll try at the next oil change which will probably be next month. If the delay causes an accident maybe I will get a winner on my airbag - oh wait that's only in GM cars...
  • buckwheatbuckwheat Member Posts: 396
    Kevin, I'm sure you already know that Consumer Reports gets their information, for the most part, from the large pool of their subscribers who own LS models and take part in CR's annual questionnaire. Remember the total number of owners who participate here is minuscule in relationship to the thousands of LS vehicles sold.
    It is interesting to note that from their data the 2000 LSV6 is a used car to avoid, yet according to their frequency of repair charts the V6 falls down only in the electrical area yet the car is consigned to a worse than average reliability for the 2000MY. The V8 prevails with a slightly better rating of average reliability for the 2000MY...
  • thomas_lthomas_l Member Posts: 134
    I wonder if any of our Lincoln folks will be attending the car show here this weekend??? I'd be willing to pay the $8 just to see the Lincoln booth!


    Also - SCCA Solo II (autocross) will be at Turner field Sat. 3/17 (practice) and Sun 3/18 (points). The Atlanta Region SCCA has more on their website. Hope I'm not the only LS again...

  • buckwheatbuckwheat Member Posts: 396
    U.S. Dealerships still maintain stronghold but Ford is using "back door" to invade the protected turfs of US dealers = No love between each..

    http://www.bonforums.com/dealerview1.htm
  • raymmerraymmer Member Posts: 16
    I have the in-dash 6 CD and yes I would get rid of the car because of these items, primarily due to what I deem as lack of respect! I will, however, take it to another dealer here in Atlanta but not anytime soon as I'd like to drive it some! As was said, it shouldn't do that and if it doesn't do for others mine shouldn't do it either! Thanks.

    Raymond
  • joelincolnjoelincoln Member Posts: 100
    I am a long-time CU reader and do fill out those questionaires. Haven't had the opportunity to do one on the LS yet.

    I find their report on the LS very contradictory also. They say "Reliability of V8 models has been average; the V6 has been subpar." They give it a big black circle for much worse than average reliability. Satisfaction is rated at above average.

    HOWEVER, they give the V8 an almost perfect score on "frequency of repair" which is unusual for an American marque. The V6 gets slightly worse marks but still very good.

    Go figure...
    Joe
  • reneleblancreneleblanc Member Posts: 144
    I have been a subscriber to Consumer Reports for years, but I have become very skeptical of their automobile frequency of repair data. In recent years, I have found many inconsistencies, similar to those mentioned by joelincoln. Also, the measured problem areas are very general, and there is no way to determine the severity of the problems reported. A car with above-average reports of brake problems might be noisy rotors, or complete brake failures, and we cannot tell the difference.

    For the Lincoln LS, they say, "Reliability of V8 models has been average; the V6 has been subpar." What the Hell does *that* mean?

    Certainly, we haven't seen any pattern of reports among the posters on this board that indicates a generic problem with the V6 engine. I'm afraid unclear CU reporting on this data can do a lot of harm to an auto manufacturer without providing any substantive data to document that the problems reported were serious or nit-picks.
  • giowagiowa Member Posts: 599
    Interesting timing of your post. In mail this week I received a letter from one of the three L-M dealers in the greater Omaha-Council Bluffs Metro area. A "Dear John" letter:

    "we will no longer be selling new Lincoln or Mercury vehicles nor will we be doing any warranty work on these vehicles. This is due to Lincoln and Mercury downsizing of dealers."

    Now they have become exclusively Toyota. Fortunately I didn't buy my '00 LS8 Sport from them. Just had a couple oil changes, etc.
  • reneleblancreneleblanc Member Posts: 144
    I, too, have filled out questionaires sent to me by CU, but recently I have stopped doing so. The reason is that the forms they send for me to fill out are mostly multiple choice format in which I can't convey whether a problem I had with a product was trivial or serious. There is no way to respond to them in a way that differentiates the very critical issues involved. There is a saying for this: "Garbage in, garbage out!"
  • reneleblancreneleblanc Member Posts: 144
    On page 102 Car & Driver reports on their Long-Term Test of the Lincoln LS-V8 Sport.

    The report is mostly positive, but say ambiguous things like "The Lincoln's sport-suspension tuning was judged inferior to that offered by BMW. It relishes a good flog down a twisty stretch, but it sacrifices too much ride comfort on the altars of grip and body-motion control. On the other hand, the road holding grip (0.81 to 0.82 g) remained within 0.01 of our BMW 328i long-termer and braking performance ended up in BMW territory at 175 feet from 70 mph."

    I don't understand what "ride comfort" disadvantage to the little 328i they could be writing about. I think the LS sport ride comfort is incredible with almost no sacrifice in comfort to achieve its acknowledged great handling.

    Regarding "dealer dings", I'll bet that Sanderson Lincoln-Mercury (Phoenix) will rue the day they screwed up the 35,000 mile service on Car & Driver's Lincoln LS! They now have national recognition! Ouch!

    It should be painfully clear to LM that BMW has established the benchmark, and the LS is going to have to overcome a lot of pre-established opinion with overwhelming superiority just to get a fair call.

    I have concern that whereas LM mounted a fantastic assault on this market with the LS in its introductory year, I'm not seeing information that convinces me they are keeping the pressure on that will earn them parity in the psychological side of this market.

    I think that for the psychological impact alone, they should offer a manual transmission option for BOTH the V6 and the V8. I know the bean counters say the manual has too small a market, but the trouble with bean counters is that they seem to have zero understanding of the emotional side of marketing. (Do bean counters have souls?) I think the very fact that LM would offer a manual V8 would increase sales of ALL Lincoln LS's, including SSTs and automatics. Having an option for manual transmissions in both models is a strong cue that THE LS IS A SERIOUS SPORT SEDAN. I think the other cue is that with at least one model, (such as a manual V8 Sport) the LS can *easily* break the 7-second 0-60 benchmark.

    The other night, the Phoenix Suns came out and devastated the LA Kings in the first half with a 28-point lead. Then, in the 2nd half they fell apart and ended up LOSING the game 89-100!

    I'd like to encourage LM to realize they are entering the 2nd half of the Luxury Sport Sedan game. A lot of the car magazines and Consumer Reports are now sounding distinctly lack-luster about the Lincoln LS. What a contrast with the first half of this game. Come on, LM, KEEP ON MAKING YOUR SHOTS!
  • reneleblancreneleblanc Member Posts: 144
    I'll NEVER use this Edmunds spell checker again! It went and changed LM to ML and a bunch of other things I didn't realize. I had to go back and edit out all the errors the spell checker introduced! Edmonds... PLEASE SHOOT (Or at least FIRE) THE PERSON THAT CREATED THIS SPELL CHECK FACILITY!
  • lateralglateralg Member Posts: 929
    Desertguy: Thanks for a good laff!
  • thomas_lthomas_l Member Posts: 134
    At least you got the courtesy of a letter. Troncalli, the dealer I bought from, never made a peep. I had to find out from a service advisor when I dropped in back when I was trying to get my initial fit & finish issues resolved. This was the same dealer that wanted to schedule an oil change three weeks out. The same service advisor said they weren't taking any new service appointments and I would need to wait 3-4 weeks before Wade opened. I am not surprised that they are out of the Lincoln business and glad their replacement (Wade L-M) is so good. I will avoid and continue to trash-mouth any Troncalli dealership in the future due to their totally absent lack of service after the sale.
  • cwesleycwesley Member Posts: 55
    The V-8 manual discussion keeps appearing, and for good reason. Many of us recognize the incredible value, and potential, of our cars. However, the discussion seems to be either/or: either give us a V-8 manual, or accept the role of a BMW wannabee.

    Another option is to use the manual gear box already attached to the duratec and make the package a V-8 beater. LM already has the goods with the Jag configuration. While I understand the Jag must be have marginally greater performance for marketing reasons, that doesn't preclude L/M from bolting some goodies on the duratec used in the LS. Would be cheaper, I assume, that designing a new gearbox; it could be done in a relatively short period of time; and I would buy it in a heartbeat!

    btw: please excuse any typo's you may find. I'm boycotting the Edmund's spellchecker ;)
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