I got back from vacation rather late this past Thursday, and returned to work and my computer yesterday. As expected, the forum was very active, with 266 posts since I last checked in. I logged a little over 1900 miles in the LS between July 5th and July 12th. The fuel mileage again this year was excellent, a tick over 27 MPG was the calculated average. The majority of the mileage was on the Interstates, but a couple hundred of those miles were "city" driving while in Myrtle Beach. I still don't understand some of the disparity in the price of gas, as I paid anywhere from $1.45 to $1.79 per gallon for Texaco super premium. Yes, I know that's cheap compared to many other areas, and I'm not complaining. My point is that I'm purchasing the same product, just in different areas. I don't think that taxes alone make up all of the difference. Anyway, back to the LS. During the trip, I got 3 or 4 of the "mystery beeps", but there was no indication on the message center whatsoever. Oh, well... A bit of a problem has shown up, however. If I hit a sharp bump, I hear a "thump" from the suspension, but only on the right side of the car. It appears something has loosened, and I'll look things over when I rotate the tires. Other than that, the car again performed very well on the trip. I did, however, have a re-occurence of the "buzzing" from the subwoofer amplifier. This has randomly happened a couple of times before, and based on the postings here, I added an additional ground strap to the amp. The noise went away for 5-6 weeks, but then started up again as I was leaving the driveway to start my trip. Needless to say, I wasn't thrilled with the idea of listening to the noise for several hundred miles, and posponing the trip wasn't an option. I turned the radio off and on a few times while driving down the road, but this didn't help. A few miles down the road, I pulled off to the side, turned off the radio and then turned off and restarted the car. Still no good, as the amp was still buzzing up a storm. In desperation, a few more miles down the road, I pulled off again, opened the trunk. I checked the wiring harness to make sure that I didn't disturb it somehow while loading the luggage. No such luck. I gave the amp a couple of "love taps", somewhat out of frustration. The noise immediately went away. I'm assuming that there's a loose circuit board, or other component that rears it's ugly head once in a while. Hopefully, I can get the dealer to duplicate the noise, and find the defective part. Otherwise, the LS again provided a comfortable and enjoyable trip, just as it did last year. One side note....I tried the Zaino polish on the car, just before we left on the trip. It's a lot of labor, but I do admit that the car does look good.
In San Diego, we pay $2.09 for 92 octane and this is for "California" gas - oxygenated and modified and produced for Californians only and made only in California. I wish I could buy real gasoline at your prices!
cdnpinhead... I don't think the LS is doomed!..just maybe a certain sector of it...the 6 cyl manual to be specific. Is a luxury car with a 6 cylinder stick going to thrive in an aging baby-boomer world?...marginally.. but (IMHO) it won't generate the volume Ford needs to keep the line going. A lot of dealers know this and go out of their way NOT to lease you a 6 cyl. stick. Why? Because they have very little resale to "50 something boomers". BMW thinks it's going to make you young again if you just slip your foot onto that cool clutch... forget about your gray hair and shift like you were 24 again! ..who's kidding who? If you believe that marketing hype than by all means go buy it! But I think calmer and wiser heads prevail when the "50 something crowd" goes shopping for luxury and performance at a price they can afford. In that respect the LS V8 sports package is perfect. Name another luxury V8 you can get on the market today that has a sports car feel without a ferrari price tag?
When all is said and done, Ford looks at the bottom line and makes decisions based on evidence and I don't see a lot of boomers racing down to stick their foot on a clutch and calling it "luxury"
Part of the problem also lies within the perceptions of Lincoln..yeah, "gray hair and old creaky bones needing a pillow ride to drive them off into the sunset" is what Lincoln has to fight it's way out of and the LS is clearly the answer.
I, for one, am Not Ready For A Rolling Coffin yet, perhaps when I'm in a hospital attached to a respirator, but not yet! If Lincoln does abandon the V6M as you suggest I will have no problem with with being "forced" into a BMW in '04-'05 when I'm ready for my next purchase. I am 48 and do have graying hair but a stick is just too much fun to give up. And no I have NO intention of trying to be 24 again, I do not suffer from Vanity as you suggest as a primary reason for desiring a manual. I was also too poor then and couldn't afford the quality automobiles I can now. I might as well take the bus as suffer a slushbox. If you are satisified with one good for you. Your definition of "calmer and wiser heads" seems to mean one should only consider a TC. No thank you, but you are welcome to the one they think they will build for me. I'll be down at the BMW dealership - where true luxury and PERFORMANCE dwells!
You are way out of line, and wrong to boot. Who are these people you leave out of your set defined as {calmer and wiser heads}? Anyone who buys a stick shift Lincoln? Or BMW? or Mercedes? Where do you draw the line between your wiser head and those of us who are able to appreciate having the fullest possible control over our cars?
Sounds to me like *you* bought the BS marketing line being spouted by those fools at the dealership where you got your slushbox. You've regurgitated what they told me practically verbatim. Yeah, the dealer (***McHugh Lincoln Mercury in Los Gatos California ***) who would happily sell me an automatic LS, but would not order a V6 manual. Dealers who think like that (and buyers who think like you) are the main reasons that Lincoln has the image it's trying to shed. An automatic-ONLY LS will signal a retreat on Lincoln's part from the assault they've launched on the performance standard bearers. If they do that, they might as well bring back the Versailles cause the party will be over. I'm not saying the V8-auto LS isn't a great sports sedan. We all know it is. I'm saying that dropping the stick, if it happens, will signal that Lincoln is giving up shedding it's stodgy image and therefore may as well refocus on it's historical customers - the {blue and grey hair} set. By the way, Bill, what color is your hair?
Not to pile on, but. . .it appears at least a few of us think that using a clutch doesn't necessarily indicate a midlife crisis. One of the major reasons I like a manual transmission is its simplicity. Having endured several years of Chrysler transmission maintenance (my '94 Vision, my wife's '94 minivan & my Mom-in-law's '95 Intrepid), not having an automatic transmission, to me, is true luxury. In addition to which, having read every posting on the LS board since it started, a large percentage of them (probably the largest number of postings, were someone to do a Paraeto) have to do with automatic transmission "issues." No automatic transmission. . .no issues.
To me simplicity is a good thing. Some call it elegance. Some call elegant things luxurious.
I just found this forum. This is great... so many of my questions about my LS have been answered.
I have noticed a lot of people mention transmission problems. My three biggest complaints are delay in going from park/drive to reverse, sloppy 2nd to 3rd gear shift under full acceleration, and inconsistent performance when accelerating from 30MPH range... sometimes fast... sometimes not. My car was bought in August 2000. Is there a software fix for these problems? If so, any thing out there I can reference when taking into dealer?
I also have a strange problem with power staying on after I remove key. Sometimes my stereo stays on unless I re-insert key, turn on, and then remove again. It happens very inconsistantly and dealer has been unable to duplicate. It seems to correspond with opening the drivers door about the same time I turn off the car. Weird?!?! Any ideas here... Anyone else see this one?
Other than this stuff, I love my LS. I have gotten it up to 130 or so with no problem. Very stable and safe feeling... I guess as safe as someone can feel doing a buck 30. 8<)
Any word on a manual tranny for V-8? That would really round out Lincoln's play in the luxury sport sedan realm.
Well, lets take em one at a time. Keyrow...Don't hyperventilate ...we each drive what we like..I'm just expressing an opinion.
As for heyjewel he and I have had this discussion before. When you get a bad taste in your mouth with a dealer, all of a sudden they are the devil incarnate. I could rag on about his dealer but I won't(they're no saints either).
Both you guys should pray that enough 6 cylinders get sold for Ford to keep them going otherwise what I said will happen...it's just business, NOTHING PERSONAL!
Heyjewel: Brown hair with flecks of gray. Also...I probably have driven a stick over Hwy17 a few more years than yourself from Santa Cruz to Campbell (25 years) and believe me, I will take an automatic anyday. Going way over the speed limit is not my idea of fun. I don't care what your driving! You endanger yourself and everyone else around you. Control is real easy to achieve...its called slowing down.
Yes, there is updated software for your transmission that should take care of your problems. Tell your dealer about your complaints. He should apply Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) 01-14-05. Coincidentally it was issued today!
This new software has fixes for all three transmission problems that you mentioned.
Samnap: I am guessing you might not be aware you stereo is SUPPOSED to stay on for you when you turn off the key...its simply a convenience for you until you open the door.
NEW MEMBER, Im on the LLSOC roster as Aaron Reynolds
can anyone offer advice on the following issues:
1. with SST, how can I get to 1st gear, prior to, or without a 60% acceleration? I would like 1st gear from the get-go off the line.
2. how can I disable interior lights upon exiting the vehicle? This is an option I would like on demand, not always. Almost all ford products have this ability on the bottom of the dimmer dial, but not LS.
3. I, too, have the INTERMITTENT SPEAKER BUZZ on my audiophile subwoofer (2000 LS8) Dealer has reconnected the GROUND on the subwoofer side and I have been back twice. They say the wire has become loosened under vibration. I may be resorting to my own ground straight to the frame. Anyone else dealt with a solution?
THANKS FOR THE UPDATE ON TSB 01-14-05...IM GOING TOMORROW!
Let's take them one at a time. . .but skip the ones we don't like.
Have you broken the code regarding the relative maintenance time/$/issues between automatic and manual transmissions? If you have, I'm more than willing to learn.
In the bargain, the LS has what appears to me to be one of the better manuals in the world. Oh, it's the one used on the BMW. Perhaps imitation is. . . Or, from where you appear to sit, perhaps they have an even bigger issue with those things you feel are unworthy.
While I agree that the Old, and perhaps present, Lincoln mentality is in accord with yours, which is that no one in their right mind would want a manual transmission in a Lincoln. This is precisely what the LS is trying so desperately to change. If the LS is unsuccessful then Lincoln will cater only to those you have described so accurately as: "gray hair and old creaky bones needing a pillow ride to drive them off into the sunset." A slushbox LS will not aleviate that stereotype, a MANUAL is required if they truly want to change Lincoln's image and take on the likes of BMW, Porsche, and MB. As for your statement that there was "NOTHING PERSONAL" (#3659), you made it so with your "calmer and wiser heads" comment. I do wish you happiness with your V8 Auto while we Prozac dependent, intectually challenged people who still have a functioning left foot are welcomed with open arms at "other" luxury dealerships rather than shunned by many LM dealers (and by those who buy from them).
Hey, i own a dark blue Lincoln LS non-sport. My car has the 16 inch polished aluminum rims. I like them a lot, but i prefer the 17 inch chrome rims they have on the 2001s. They are gorgeous rims. Can anyone tell me exactly how much the rims would cost to get replaced if i do it at my local Lincoln dealer. Would the dealership be able to take back the 16 inch rims? I would like to do a trade in type of deal and pay the extra money, but i dont think that would work. Thanks for your help.
I still think the 6 cyl stick is doomed. Not because I'm old, but because of the lack of general public appeal and subsequent dealer resistance to sell them. Heyjewel got a rude awakening when he tried to buy in Los Gatos...probably the capital of the well-to-do 50 and over crowd in Silicon valley and when he was asked to front a non-refundable deposit (I think it was nonrefundable?..I'm sure we will hear his side of the story)that tells me the dealer is going to have a tough time selling the 6 cyl to it's customer base if he backs out at the last minute by ordering another one at a different dealer with a cheaper price. I think he wound up buying his car at North Bay Ford in Santa Cruz ..hardly the well healed community that Los gatos is. (Don't get me wrong I love living in Santa Cruz)...North Bay Ford isn't a Lincoln exclusive dealer but sells any ford you want.
Heyjewel: I not trying to trash your dealer here... I'm simply stating my case about 6 cylinders and why you got treated the way you did at Mchugh LM.
My opinion is that Lincoln has more or less painted themselves into a corner on the 6 cyl. If they move to a V8 manual that will directly siphen off of the Jag allure with the price difference being the deciding factor. I would still like to see Ford make a V8 manual but 6 cylinders and Lincolns to me don't sound like long lasting relationship... I hope Lincoln takes the risks and reaps the rewards with the intro of of a V8 manual..that to me would be the best shot at atracting new younger buyers while still keeping the 50 something crowd in the ranks. Some of us don't like to brag about how fast we can go..just that the car handles better than anything on the road for the price. Sorry if I offended anyones lifestyles...
Not many in this forum want to take on V6 LS Manual owners to discuss the issues, but I don't mind...take your best shots guys! thats what discussions are for.
Your post has too many mis-statements, mis-categorizations and mistakes to bother arguing with you. You are clueless about Lincoln vs Jag and have apparently not paid attention to my story, or the reasoning of other manual tranny defenders. Enjoy your LS V8 and shut-up and let the rest of us enjoy the choices we made.
Almost kind of nice feeling sitting on sidelines with popcorn watching the fighting, but think it is too personal and too distracting. Here's an attempt to shift the field of battle...
I think we can lay much of the blame for the lack of manuals in USA on two factors. First, drivers' ed programs that only teach kids to drive automatics. Once you've done that, zillions of kids never learn to drive manuals. Second, too many wives (mine included) can't or won't drive a stick. (Mine can't. I've tried. Her dad has tried. Boyfriends from way in past tried.) Therefore, we should resolve to teach our kids and future spouses to drive sticks! Once they can, many will. More than now. And maybe, just maybe, demand would rise in USA. (Or guess we can pray for $5 per gallon Euro-gas prices? Nothin' like that to drive up demand for manuals!)
1) I think you can take off in D5, which will start you in 1st gear, then click over to SST right away, and that will keep you in 1st until you shift up.
2)Locking the car turns them off (sorry, you probably already thought of that).
Edmunds has posted the prices for the '02 models; I just ran across them. To see for yourself, just click on the "New" link at the top of this page, then click on "Lincoln" and scroll down.
I haven't looked at everything yet, but I did notice some interesting things. For example, Sport is now a separate model rather than an option package. The MSRP for the '02 V8 Sport is $37,875 plus $610 destination. The Audiophile stereo is a no-cost addition to the Sport. The All-Weather package, which includes AdvanceTrac and heated seats, is $735, which means you get AdvanceTrac for last year's price with heated seats thrown in for free.
It also appears that, with a special "early order" code, the new digital phone system (VCS) is ALSO a no-cost option. Its list price is $1295, but the price list shows it discounted to $0!
This sounds like great news for '02 buyers, but leaves me in a bit of a funk. My '01 V8 Sport (with moonroof, AdvanceTrac, and tricoat paint), which I ordered in June 2000, listed for $40,385. With the same equipment, the '02 would list for $40,600 BUT would include the Audiophile stereo, heated seats, and the VCS phone system. GAAAAH--hindsight is 20/20, but now I wish to heck I would've waited...
I know the feeling! I picked up my '01 V8 sports package about 3 weeks before Lincoln announced the 0% lease. You can just feel the money leaving your wallet... like you said.. hindsight is 20/20.
I was satisfied with the price & financing deal I made in Oct. 2000. When Lincoln announced the low interest rates, I took it calmly. But when Lincoln sent me an e-mail to inform me of the new low rate financing, it felt like my nose was being rubbed in it. What, they were expecting maybe I'd trade mine in?
Well, you're right, of course. I took delivery on Sept. 1 and have about 11,500 miles on the odo. The car has been essentially flawless; my only visits to the dealer have been for scheduled maintenance (I paid extra to upgrade my "free" maintenace to the heavy-duty schedule.) Total calculated fuel mileage is now 17.84 MPG.
I have on 2 occasions experienced the "radio-stays-on-when-the-door-is-open" phenomenon, but I probably won't address it unless/until it starts happening more frequently. My car also tends to retain A/C condensation; it aspirates water on my steeply-sloped driveway when I pull out of the garage. (There's an excerpt from a service letter on the LLSOC board that seems to indicate that there's a fix for this that involves a new heat shield; however, according to the letter, installing the new shield requires removing the exhaust system AND the transmission. ACK! I don't think I'm interested.)
What bums me out is the fact that the Audiophile stereo and the factory phone are two options that I really, really wanted. Lincoln wouldn't sell them to me last year, and now they're GIVING them away, and the phone system is digital and much-improved over the old RESCU package. Sheesh.
Nobody held a gun to my head, and I still REALLY like my car. It's a bit irritating, though...
Note to George: Thanks for correcting my error on the '01 manual console. Jeez; I should've known/remembered that--I think you even told me about it a while back. Must be an age thing.
Looking into the Ford parts bin, Jaguar evidently does not have a manual transmission, Aston Martin has one but this is not likely to be a practical option for cost reasons. The fast Mustangs have manual transmissions available that would surely handle the 3.9L power if it would otherwise fit in the LS chassis. Perhaps the best thing would be to spec out a Getrag 6-speed that would work in the LS6, LS8, T-Bird, Jaguar S(6&8), XK8, XKR, and even the fast Mustangs. This broad application would allow an ample number to be made and give all these great cars another option at a reasonable cost. Mark, would it work?
First I wanted to tell everyone I really enjoy reading these posts. I have some questions for the group if you don't mind. 1 Do all the sport owners have 16 inch "Full" size spares, or am I the only one? To me "Full size" means matches what's on the car, which is definitely not what I have. 2 I've seen comments that the manual is the same unit as BMW uses, I've also seen the comment that it probably wouldn't hold up to much more horsepower or torque. Does anyone know of a good source of info on the capabilities of this unit? Is the clutch the weak link? 3 I am also anxiously awaiting the info on the new intake & exhaust mods for 2002. I really want to boost the output and/or flatten the torque curve on the V6, but this car is a huge purchase for me. If I screw it up I may be sentenced to an Accord for the rest of my life!
The type of spare you have depends on when your car was built. The first '00 Sport cars had a full-size 17" Sport wheel/tire combo as a spare. Later in the model year, this was changed--I believe to a 17" space-saver/limited use spare.
My '01 Sport, built last August, has a 16" spare wheel with a Continental tire--sounds like what you have. Later in the '01 model year, I think they went back to the 17" space-saver.
According to the latest product info sheet, the '02 Sport model will still have the 17" mini-spare.
I agree that it's goofy to have a 16" spare when the car has 17" wheels and tires, but their circumferences are very close due to the different profiles. If I ever have a flat, I plan to go straight to the tire store and get the spare off the ground as soon as possible.
An interesting side note: That black-painted spare wheel that we have in the trunk is actually from an S-type Jaguar.
The other manuals you mentioned should have the torque capacity. I don't really know, I only handle automatics. I have no more information on manuals than you do.
What I do know is that the 3.9L has a very unique rear face of block bolt pattern. A new bellhousing would need to be made to mate a manual trans to this engine.
The club looked into it. For an individual to purchase and fabricate most of the parts would probably cost about $15,000 and that doesn't include what would probably be an extraordinary amount of labor hours. The 15 grand takes into consideration that each piece would have to be purchased at retail plus finding a fabricator that could make the pieces plus finding someone who could reprogram the PCM.
The current Getrag can handle the additional 10 hp without any problems. It's torque that kills the transmissions and there is still room in the tranny specs for an increase without hand-grenading the thing all over the place.
I've been skulking about in "Club Lexus" to see what owners think of their cars, & dealer service.
The link below points to a "Rate your service" thread.
I conclude that the positive and negative extremes are pretty much what we see at Lincoln dealers, with possibly a bit better average at Lexus.
I believe that both Lexus & Lincoln want excellent service at ALL their dealers, but the existing relationship between manufacturers and dealers prevents it from happening.
Here's one of the posts; there are others just about as nasty.
"Bay Ridge Lexus
Brooklyn, New York
NO Star
Service/Parts - NO!!
Technican - They ALL suck!!!
Comment - If you want to get ripped off and get horrible service, then this is the place to be. I've complained to Lexus in multiple letters and phone calls. No idea what is going on. Makes you wait and wait. Such an attitude. The price is insane. Also they f*ck up your car and do NOT admit that they did. Not only my car but other people's as well.
Pricing - Don't even bother, you'll get ripped off."
The torque limit on the Getrag 221 is 245 NM. Does anyone know how the metric NM translates to ft.lbs? This would tell us if this five-speed would work on the 3.9 or if the 3.9 has too much torque for the current five-speed. The Getrag 292 is the current Getrag six-speed with a torque capacity of 350 NM. I know this would work with even a modified V-8 as it is used in the M5 and 540i six-speed. Mark, what's NM to ft.lb.?
The torque output of the V6 is 205 lbs/ft. Now I know the torque is less at the wheels but would the Getrag still be able to handle it? Something is awry here.... maybe me!
What enters into discussions of this type is a thing called "duty cycle."
I used to design aircraft gearboxes for a living, and when it came time to size the gears and bearings, the maximum torque conditions were of primary interest. Starting an aircraft engine involves air turbine starters which can generate huge amounts of torque at quite low speeds. This results in very wide (heavy) gears which are of no use most of the time -- the airplane spends very little time starting, relative to backdriving the gearbox for hydraulic & electric power.
Point being, the amount of time any of our V6's spend at 205 lb/ft is miniscule relative to the amount of time we spend cruising along at 65 mph (or 95, if we're lucky). Even under hard acceleration, max torque is rarely reached, and even if it is, you're only there for a few seconds. And, knowing the Germans as I think I do (I am one), the design is likely "conservative," which is to say. . .when did the last transmission fail due to excessive torque? Or for any other reason?
Something may be awry. I took these NM figures off the Getrag website. The five-speed torque limit is for the 220. The 221 may be different. The six-speed 292 may not be the same model as used in the big-engined cars, but the site lists only one 5 and one 6 speed. What we need is Scot's help in finding out at least the torque rating on the 221. I've tried E-mailing Getrag but I don't speak German.
I also wonder what will happen after the warranty period. My LS was built 10/99, and I have NOT had a window problem yet. One of the reasons I monitor Edmunds, and joined LLSOC, was to keep abreast of problems (and potential problems) that arise with the car. Thus far, the only problem I have encountered has been the fogging headlight units. After I heard about the problem here on Edmunds, I noticed the problem develop on my car, and knew how to approach my dealer about it. The same was true regarding the transmission reflash. I'm kind of holding my breath on the rear window failure. During the summer months, I use the window express-open feature from the key fob, and have yet to have a problem, but feel as though I'm living on borrowed time.
I suspect that their rating is for maximum continuous torque. They probably have another rating for peak torque ... as in rev to 3500 RPM then dump the clutch. In this case, the inertial torque would be WAY above the continuous transmission rating, as well as the rated torque output of the engine.
Finally I have gotten the last of the problems that my dealer created so I can go to another one. I took my car into the dealer I bought the car from, East-West Licoln Mercury, for the 15k service as well as the replacemement seat cover for the one they ripped and a replacement Lumbar switch. I also complained about the 2-3 gear shift problem and also the irregular acceration around 30 mph. I mention the TSB to the service advisor. Well after three days at the dealer and no word as to what was going on I called. Oh sure your car is ready come get it any time. Gee a phone call would have been nice. Anyway I show up to pick it up and WWWHHHOOO get a $232 bill for an oil change and filter. Yes they replaced the air cabin filter too. must be very expensive. As I was trying to come to grips with this I noticed on the report that they did nothing about the transmission problem. Comment was "no problem found" While deciding what to do I realized I just wanted to get the F&*^ outta there and left. I will take the car to a local dealer and hope I find someone who appreciates a long term customer.
Kevin 2000LS V8 loaded. cordovan. PS I know... why did I go back to them in the first place...stupid I quess...
My question was regarding the power staying on after key was removed... I know the power is SUPPOSED to stay on until you open the door. (Cool feature by the way!)
My problem is the power stays on AFTER the key is removed and door opened. Sorry for misunderstanding.... I may not have been clear in original post.
It is an intermittent problem... I may have found a correlation to it happening when I open the door and remove key at same time. It is difficult to duplicate, but a real annoyance. I'm afraid of battery draining down.
Anyone else see this problem or aware of a fix? Thanks!
Your response to my post: Samnap: I am guessing you might not be aware you stereo is SUPPOSED to stay on for you when you turn off the key... its simply a convenience for you until you open the door.
I thought I should let you all know that as of the end of the month I will be leaving Lincoln and assuming a position with the Premier Auto Group (Lincoln, Jaguar, Volvo, Land Rover, Aston Martin). As such I just won't be able to follow this board as I have before. My successor, Anne Belec, will probably be introducing herself here in the near future.
Thanks so much for the information (and the friendship) we have had over the past few years. I really appreciate both the information we have been able to gather from this forum, but to me more importantly the friendships we have established both on line and at Mania, etc. My best wishes to all of you. And you can always contact me if you have any issues with your LS; I will do all I can to help.
I have an LS6 sport 2000. Great car so far even when compared to my BMW 528. A few nights ago I happened to look at the rear roof pillar on the driver's side and noticed some wavey metal near the top of the pillar. I couldnt believe it since I really checked the car over before taking delivery. As I look closer it appears that where the roof is joined ot the pillar the must be a weld that wasn't ground down properly. The paint finish (pearlescent white) is great on all of the car including this area. Then I checked the other pillar. Not as bad but still some waves. Thinking I must have gotten a flawed car, I went to the dealer today. I looked at 12 LS 2001 in bright sunlight. All but one had this same wavy joint of the roof and pillar on both sides. Interestingly, it always seemed a little worse on the driver's side.
Clearly this is a manufacturing glich that Lincoln must fix. I wonder if there is a weld here that is just not being properly ground and finished. Something is wrong. I have not mentioned it to Churchill Lincoln but I will. They have been a fine dealer thus far.
Now look at your LS and see if you also notice these waves. I assume most who look will find this same finish glich.
Yes, I have the pearl white LS8 sport and it too, has the same waves on the rear roof panel. I decided it wasn't worth bringing up when I saw that all the cars I saw at the dealership had the same "flaw". I didn't think it could be fixed, I didn't want any grinding and touch up painting done so I just left it. I only see it when I am particularly looking for it or on one of my infrequent waxing forays. No big deal in my view.
Yep, I noticed it too. If you look down the side (lengthwise), you will probably also see a ever so slight crease in the rear doors. Seems to be fairly common. The LS has many strengths, flawless/perfect fit and finish/paint quality aint one of them, unfortunately.
Sorry to hear about your bad experience at East-West. I only used them once, and that was for a transmission flash upgrade that they performed with no questions asked, in a fairly quick manner. I can say I've had good overall experiences with King in Gaithersburg, my selling dealer. My service advisor has always been Dennis Shrewsberry (sp?), and he's been very helpful. You might want to give them a try, as they seem to be fairly customer service oriented.
Just turned 36,000 miles on my 2000 V6 Sport the other day, and for the most part, I have nothing but praise for this car. Still tight, runs strong, auto transmission is working well, stock Firestones work good for me (33-34psi at all times), so good I ordered a second set to put on when these wear out, brakes are nice and firm and swapping the fronts to the non-sport LS compound is possibly the best "upgrade" done, since it reduced the dust about 90%(I'll get the brakefluid flushed sometime this fall), suspension still feels very good, i love the anti-dive/anti squat geometry. Yes, I do tend to drive the car in a "performance" manner at times, when traffic permits, as indicated by my front brake pads wearing out in 30,000 miles or so...;-). Interior materials seem to be holding up well, although I think..think..i may have heard a rattle or two recently when the stero was turned down...which brings me to, the stock Audiophile stereo system, it still sounds perfect to me, enough so that I dont plan to touch it anytime soon with mods.
If I had to do the purchase process over again, I have to say, after test driving the V8 Sport twice, I'd still go with the V6. In my opinion, the Duratec V6 is more efficient, allows the car a closer 50/50 balance, which is more important to me than 0-60 times. I possibly would give more consideration to the V6 Manual, but all factors considered, I would say I'd still go with the Auto/SST combo again.
I plan to keep this car for at least the next 2 years, until its paid off. At that point, I'll either opt for a used BMW 330Ci coupe, or another V6 LS, if it gets more power, and is still the value like it is.
Had the same problem on my Light Parchment Gold 2000. The drivers side was really noticeable in sunlight and you could definitely feel it if you ran your hand down the pillar. I was working with Catherine in Lincoln HQ on some other problems with the LS and she said "get it fixed". The dealer's body shop has a great reputation in this area so I left them take it back, put it in the shop for a couple of days and "fix" it. That was over a year ago and the repainted area has held up great. No one can pick out the area that was redone. The pillar is now smooth, so whatever the problem is, it can be corrected. Why it hasn't been done at the plant is a real mystery?
I must agree with ronniepooh about the merits of the V6 Sport slush box which we've owned since December, and my wife drives more that I do. I've put over 15,000 miles on a company owned V8 on-sport which convinced us to buy our V6 Sport.
In my 25,000 mile experience with both LS's the only two noticeable differences are better pulling power at the higher end with the V8 (no big deal IMHO), and much better fuel economy with the V6 (3 to 4 MPG), which is a big deal when I'm paying for the fuel myself. BOW our other family owned car is a Porsche so I do have an affinity for performance driving.
I've suspected that Lincoln influenced a more conservative MPG rating on the V6 to make it look almost the same as the V8. Why? Well they charge well over $2000 more for the V8 even after adjusting for the cost of the convenience package on the V6. Getting a reasonable portion of your V8 investment back when you sell your LS is very problematic.
In any event, with either engine, the LS is one hell of a car. So is the 300M--the poor mans' LS.
Comments
I logged a little over 1900 miles in the LS between July 5th and July 12th. The fuel mileage again this year was excellent, a tick over 27 MPG was the calculated average. The majority of the mileage was on the Interstates, but a couple hundred of those miles were "city" driving while in Myrtle Beach.
I still don't understand some of the disparity in the price of gas, as I paid anywhere from $1.45 to $1.79 per gallon for Texaco super premium. Yes, I know that's cheap compared to many other areas, and I'm not complaining. My point is that I'm purchasing the same product, just in different areas. I don't think that taxes alone make up all of the difference.
Anyway, back to the LS. During the trip, I got 3 or 4 of the "mystery beeps", but there was no indication on the message center whatsoever. Oh, well... A bit of a problem has shown up, however. If I hit a sharp bump, I hear a "thump" from the suspension, but only on the right side of the car. It appears something has loosened, and I'll look things over when I rotate the tires. Other than that, the car again performed very well on the trip.
I did, however, have a re-occurence of the "buzzing" from the subwoofer amplifier. This has randomly happened a couple of times before, and based on the postings here, I added an additional ground strap to the amp. The noise went away for 5-6 weeks, but then started up again as I was leaving the driveway to start my trip.
Needless to say, I wasn't thrilled with the idea of listening to the noise for several hundred miles, and posponing the trip wasn't an option. I turned the radio off and on a few times while driving down the road, but this didn't help. A few miles down the road, I pulled off to the side, turned off the radio and then turned off and restarted the car. Still no good, as the amp was still buzzing up a storm. In desperation, a few more miles down the road, I pulled off again, opened the trunk. I checked the wiring harness to make sure that I didn't disturb it somehow while loading the luggage. No such luck. I gave the amp a couple of "love taps", somewhat out of frustration. The noise immediately went away. I'm assuming that there's a loose circuit board, or other component that rears it's ugly head once in a while. Hopefully, I can get the dealer to duplicate the noise, and find the defective part.
Otherwise, the LS again provided a comfortable and enjoyable trip, just as it did last year. One side note....I tried the Zaino polish on the car, just before we left on the trip. It's a lot of labor, but I do admit that the car does look good.
Is a luxury car with a 6 cylinder stick going to thrive in an aging baby-boomer world?...marginally.. but (IMHO) it won't generate the volume Ford needs to keep the line going. A lot of dealers know this and go out of their way NOT to lease you a 6 cyl. stick. Why? Because they have very little resale to "50 something boomers".
BMW thinks it's going to make you young again if you just slip your foot onto that cool clutch... forget about your gray hair and shift like you were 24 again! ..who's kidding who? If you believe that marketing hype than by all means go buy it! But I think calmer and wiser heads prevail when the "50 something crowd" goes shopping for luxury and performance at a price they can afford. In that respect the LS V8 sports package is perfect. Name another luxury V8 you can get on the market today that has a sports car feel without a ferrari price tag?
When all is said and done, Ford looks at the bottom line and makes decisions based on evidence and I don't see a lot of boomers racing down to stick their foot on a clutch and calling it "luxury"
Part of the problem also lies within the perceptions of Lincoln..yeah, "gray hair and old creaky bones needing a pillow ride to drive them off into the sunset" is what Lincoln has to fight it's way out of and the LS is clearly the answer.
Bill
Totally happy with my '01 V6M LS
Sounds to me like *you* bought the BS marketing line being spouted by those fools at the dealership where you got your slushbox. You've regurgitated what they told me practically verbatim. Yeah, the dealer (***McHugh Lincoln Mercury in Los Gatos California ***) who would happily sell me an automatic LS, but would not order a V6 manual. Dealers who think like that (and buyers who think like you) are the main reasons that Lincoln has the image it's trying to shed. An automatic-ONLY LS will signal a retreat on Lincoln's part from the assault they've launched on the performance standard bearers. If they do that, they might as well bring back the Versailles cause the party will be over. I'm not saying the V8-auto LS isn't a great sports sedan. We all know it is. I'm saying that dropping the stick, if it happens, will signal that Lincoln is giving up shedding it's stodgy image and therefore may as well refocus on it's historical customers - the {blue and grey hair} set. By the way, Bill, what color is your hair?
George
To me simplicity is a good thing. Some call it elegance. Some call elegant things luxurious.
Others don't.
I just found this forum. This is great... so many of my questions about my LS have been answered.
I have noticed a lot of people mention transmission problems. My three biggest complaints are delay in going from park/drive to reverse, sloppy 2nd to 3rd gear shift under full acceleration, and inconsistent performance when accelerating from 30MPH range... sometimes fast... sometimes not. My car was bought in August 2000. Is there a software fix for these problems? If so, any thing out there I can reference when taking into dealer?
I also have a strange problem with power staying on after I remove key. Sometimes my stereo stays on unless I re-insert key, turn on, and then remove again. It happens very inconsistantly and dealer has been unable to duplicate. It seems to correspond with opening the drivers door about the same time I turn off the car. Weird?!?! Any ideas here... Anyone else see this one?
Other than this stuff, I love my LS. I have gotten it up to 130 or so with no problem. Very stable and safe feeling... I guess as safe as someone can feel doing a buck 30. 8<)
Any word on a manual tranny for V-8? That would really round out Lincoln's play in the luxury sport sedan realm.
Later!
As for heyjewel he and I have had this discussion before. When you get a bad taste in your mouth with a dealer, all of a sudden they are the devil incarnate. I could rag on about his dealer but I won't(they're no saints either).
Both you guys should pray that enough 6 cylinders get sold for Ford to keep them going otherwise what I said will happen...it's just business, NOTHING PERSONAL!
Heyjewel: Brown hair with flecks of gray. Also...I probably have driven a stick over Hwy17 a few more years than yourself from Santa Cruz to Campbell (25 years) and believe me, I will take an automatic anyday. Going way over the speed limit is not my idea of fun. I don't care what your driving! You endanger yourself and everyone else around you. Control is real easy to achieve...its called slowing down.
This new software has fixes for all three transmission problems that you mentioned.
Mark
can anyone offer advice on the following issues:
1. with SST, how can I get to 1st gear, prior to, or without a 60% acceleration? I would like 1st gear from the get-go off the line.
2. how can I disable interior lights upon exiting the vehicle? This is an option I would like on demand, not always. Almost all ford products have this ability on the bottom of the dimmer dial, but not LS.
3. I, too, have the INTERMITTENT SPEAKER BUZZ on my audiophile subwoofer (2000 LS8) Dealer has reconnected the GROUND on the subwoofer side and I have been back twice. They say the wire has become loosened under vibration. I may be resorting to my own ground straight to the frame. Anyone else dealt with a solution?
THANKS FOR THE UPDATE ON TSB 01-14-05...IM GOING TOMORROW!
Have you broken the code regarding the relative maintenance time/$/issues between automatic and manual transmissions? If you have, I'm more than willing to learn.
In the bargain, the LS has what appears to me to be one of the better manuals in the world. Oh, it's the one used on the BMW. Perhaps imitation is. . . Or, from where you appear to sit, perhaps they have an even bigger issue with those things you feel are unworthy.
Hyperventilating into a brown paper bag now.
Heyjewel: I not trying to trash your dealer here... I'm simply stating my case about 6 cylinders and why you got treated the way you did at Mchugh LM.
My opinion is that Lincoln has more or less painted themselves into a corner on the 6 cyl. If they move to a V8 manual that will directly siphen off of the Jag allure with the price difference being the deciding factor. I would still like to see Ford make a V8 manual but 6 cylinders and Lincolns to me don't sound like long lasting relationship... I hope Lincoln takes the risks and reaps the rewards with the intro of of a V8 manual..that to me would be the best shot at atracting new younger buyers while still keeping the 50 something crowd in the ranks. Some of us don't like to brag about how fast we can go..just that the car handles better than anything on the road for the price. Sorry if I offended anyones lifestyles...
Not many in this forum want to take on V6 LS Manual owners to discuss the issues, but I don't mind...take your best shots guys! thats what discussions are for.
Bill
I think we can lay much of the blame for the lack of manuals in USA on two factors. First, drivers' ed programs that only teach kids to drive automatics. Once you've done that, zillions of kids never learn to drive manuals. Second, too many wives (mine included) can't or won't drive a stick. (Mine can't. I've tried. Her dad has tried. Boyfriends from way in past tried.) Therefore, we should resolve to teach our kids and future spouses to drive sticks! Once they can, many will. More than now. And maybe, just maybe, demand would rise in USA. (Or guess we can pray for $5 per gallon Euro-gas prices? Nothin' like that to drive up demand for manuals!)
2)Locking the car turns them off (sorry, you probably already thought of that).
I haven't looked at everything yet, but I did notice some interesting things. For example, Sport is now a separate model rather than an option package. The MSRP for the '02 V8 Sport is $37,875 plus $610 destination. The Audiophile stereo is a no-cost addition to the Sport. The All-Weather package, which includes AdvanceTrac and heated seats, is $735, which means you get AdvanceTrac for last year's price with heated seats thrown in for free.
It also appears that, with a special "early order" code, the new digital phone system (VCS) is ALSO a no-cost option. Its list price is $1295, but the price list shows it discounted to $0!
This sounds like great news for '02 buyers, but leaves me in a bit of a funk. My '01 V8 Sport (with moonroof, AdvanceTrac, and tricoat paint), which I ordered in June 2000, listed for $40,385. With the same equipment, the '02 would list for $40,600 BUT would include the Audiophile stereo, heated seats, and the VCS phone system. GAAAAH--hindsight is 20/20, but now I wish to heck I would've waited...
I have on 2 occasions experienced the "radio-stays-on-when-the-door-is-open" phenomenon, but I probably won't address it unless/until it starts happening more frequently. My car also tends to retain A/C condensation; it aspirates water on my steeply-sloped driveway when I pull out of the garage. (There's an excerpt from a service letter on the LLSOC board that seems to indicate that there's a fix for this that involves a new heat shield; however, according to the letter, installing the new shield requires removing the exhaust system AND the transmission. ACK! I don't think I'm interested.)
What bums me out is the fact that the Audiophile stereo and the factory phone are two options that I really, really wanted. Lincoln wouldn't sell them to me last year, and now they're GIVING them away, and the phone system is digital and much-improved over the old RESCU package. Sheesh.
Nobody held a gun to my head, and I still REALLY like my car. It's a bit irritating, though...
Note to George: Thanks for correcting my error on the '01 manual console. Jeez; I should've known/remembered that--I think you even told me about it a while back. Must be an age thing.
My '01 Sport, built last August, has a 16" spare wheel with a Continental tire--sounds like what you have. Later in the '01 model year, I think they went back to the 17" space-saver.
According to the latest product info sheet, the '02 Sport model will still have the 17" mini-spare.
I agree that it's goofy to have a 16" spare when the car has 17" wheels and tires, but their circumferences are very close due to the different profiles. If I ever have a flat, I plan to go straight to the tire store and get the spare off the ground as soon as possible.
An interesting side note: That black-painted spare wheel that we have in the trunk is actually from an S-type Jaguar.
What I do know is that the 3.9L has a very unique rear face of block bolt pattern. A new bellhousing would need to be made to mate a manual trans to this engine.
Mark
The current Getrag can handle the additional 10 hp without any problems. It's torque that kills the transmissions and there is still room in the tranny specs for an increase without hand-grenading the thing all over the place.
Brian
The link below points to a "Rate your service" thread.
I conclude that the positive and negative extremes are pretty much what we see at Lincoln dealers, with possibly a bit better average at Lexus.
I believe that both Lexus & Lincoln want excellent service at ALL their dealers, but the existing relationship between manufacturers and dealers prevents it from happening.
http://www.clublexus.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14459&perpage=15&pagenumber=3
Here's one of the posts; there are others just about as nasty.
"Bay Ridge Lexus
Brooklyn, New York
NO Star
Service/Parts - NO!!
Technican - They ALL suck!!!
Comment - If you want to get ripped off and get horrible service, then this is the place to be. I've complained to Lexus in multiple letters and phone calls. No idea what is going on. Makes you wait and wait. Such an attitude. The price is insane. Also they f*ck up your car and do NOT admit that they did. Not only my car but other people's as well.
Pricing - Don't even bother, you'll get ripped off."
The Getrag 292 is the current Getrag six-speed with a torque capacity of 350 NM. I know this would work with even a modified V-8 as it is used in the M5 and 540i six-speed.
Mark, what's NM to ft.lb.?
Therefore, Getrag 221 rating would be 181 lb-ft.
Getrag 292 would be 258 lb-ft.
This site has an excellent, free, conversion program that I keep on my task bar for situations like this.
http://www.joshmadison.com/software/
Airwolf1000
I used to design aircraft gearboxes for a living, and when it came time to size the gears and bearings, the maximum torque conditions were of primary interest. Starting an aircraft engine involves air turbine starters which can generate huge amounts of torque at quite low speeds. This results in very wide (heavy) gears which are of no use most of the time -- the airplane spends very little time starting, relative to backdriving the gearbox for hydraulic & electric power.
Point being, the amount of time any of our V6's spend at 205 lb/ft is miniscule relative to the amount of time we spend cruising along at 65 mph (or 95, if we're lucky). Even under hard acceleration, max torque is rarely reached, and even if it is, you're only there for a few seconds. And, knowing the Germans as I think I do (I am one), the design is likely "conservative," which is to say. . .when did the last transmission fail due to excessive torque? Or for any other reason?
Tom
. . . now keeping my fingers crossed!
I suspect that their rating is for maximum continuous torque. They probably have another rating for peak torque ... as in rev to 3500 RPM then dump the clutch. In this case, the inertial torque would be WAY above the continuous transmission rating, as well as the rated torque output of the engine.
I took my car into the dealer I bought the car from, East-West Licoln Mercury, for the 15k service as well as the replacemement seat cover for the one they ripped and a replacement Lumbar switch.
I also complained about the 2-3 gear shift problem and also the irregular acceration around 30 mph. I mention the TSB to the service advisor.
Well after three days at the dealer and no word as to what was going on I called.
Oh sure your car is ready come get it any time. Gee a phone call would have been nice.
Anyway I show up to pick it up and WWWHHHOOO get a $232 bill for an oil change and filter. Yes they replaced the air cabin filter too. must be very expensive.
As I was trying to come to grips with this I noticed on the report that they did nothing about the transmission problem. Comment was "no problem found"
While deciding what to do I realized I just wanted to get the F&*^ outta there and left.
I will take the car to a local dealer and hope I find someone who appreciates a long term customer.
Kevin
2000LS V8 loaded. cordovan.
PS I know... why did I go back to them in the first place...stupid I quess...
My problem is the power stays on AFTER the key is removed and door opened. Sorry for misunderstanding.... I may not have been clear in original post.
It is an intermittent problem... I may have found a correlation to it happening when I open the door and remove key at same time. It is difficult to duplicate, but a real annoyance. I'm afraid of battery draining down.
Anyone else see this problem or aware of a fix?
Thanks!
Your response to my post:
Samnap: I am guessing you might not be aware you stereo is SUPPOSED to stay on for you when you turn off the key... its simply a convenience for you until you open the door.
Thanks so much for the information (and the friendship) we have had over the past few years. I really appreciate both the information we have been able to gather from this forum, but to me more importantly the friendships we have established both on line and at Mania, etc. My best wishes to all of you. And you can always contact me if you have any issues with your LS; I will do all I can to help.
Best regards,
Jim Rogers (jroger19@ford.com)
Clearly this is a manufacturing glich that Lincoln must fix. I wonder if there is a weld here that is just not being properly ground and finished. Something is wrong. I have not mentioned it to Churchill Lincoln but I will. They have been a fine dealer thus far.
Now look at your LS and see if you also notice these waves. I assume most who look will find this same finish glich.
Just turned 36,000 miles on my 2000 V6 Sport the other day, and for the most part, I have nothing but praise for this car. Still tight, runs strong, auto transmission is working well, stock Firestones work good for me (33-34psi at all times), so good I ordered a second set to put on when these wear out, brakes are nice and firm and swapping the fronts to the non-sport LS compound is possibly the best "upgrade" done, since it reduced the dust about 90%(I'll get the brakefluid flushed sometime this fall), suspension still feels very good, i love the anti-dive/anti squat geometry. Yes, I do tend to drive the car in a "performance" manner at times, when traffic permits, as indicated by my front brake pads wearing out in 30,000 miles or so...;-). Interior materials seem to be holding up well, although I think..think..i may have heard a rattle or two recently when the stero was turned down...which brings me to, the stock Audiophile stereo system, it still sounds perfect to me, enough so that I dont plan to touch it anytime soon with mods.
If I had to do the purchase process over again, I have to say, after test driving the V8 Sport twice, I'd still go with the V6. In my opinion, the Duratec V6 is more efficient, allows the car a closer 50/50 balance, which is more important to me than 0-60 times. I possibly would give more consideration to the V6 Manual, but all factors considered, I would say I'd still go with the Auto/SST combo again.
I plan to keep this car for at least the next 2 years, until its paid off. At that point, I'll either opt for a used BMW 330Ci coupe, or another V6 LS, if it gets more power, and is still the value like it is.
In my 25,000 mile experience with both LS's the only two noticeable differences are better pulling power at the higher end with the V8 (no big deal IMHO), and much better fuel economy with the V6 (3 to 4 MPG), which is a big deal when I'm paying for the fuel myself. BOW our other family owned car is a Porsche so I do have an affinity for performance driving.
I've suspected that Lincoln influenced a more conservative MPG rating on the V6 to make it look almost the same as the V8. Why? Well they charge well over $2000 more for the V8 even after adjusting for the cost of the convenience package on the V6. Getting a reasonable portion of your V8 investment back when you sell your LS is very problematic.
In any event, with either engine, the LS is one hell of a car. So is the 300M--the poor mans' LS.