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Comments
Tom
Anyway any other tactic I should try at another firestone dealer?
Regards,
Airwolf1000
If the local store will not give you what you want, then call firestone and ask for the regional office, they should be able to help you.
Happy tire hunting.....
Why is it that when using the shop vac, the attachment keeps falling off, but when I want to change attachments, I have to HAMMER the damn thing off?
Okay, back to car (LS) talk.
Sounds like the 3.2TL in its present configuration would be an orphan as many manufacturers are "rediscovering" RWD. Or is it that the public is waking up to the "non-advantages" of FWD, especially in heavier and more powerful vehicles.
Probably for the same reason riez keeps posting here after he promised he said he wouldn't!
RPM V6 V8
1500 170 230
3000 200 240
4500 205 267
6000 180 225
If you look at the graphs (see http://www.llsoc.com/index.htm )
You will notice that the LOWEST V8 torque across the entire RPM range is considerably above the torque PEAK of the V6.
These cars have the same transmission. If the V6 seemed smoother, it may have had a longer "training" experience. These transmissions continually adjust themselves to maximize smoothness.
Furthermore, I think, as good as the Duratech V6 is, the LS's V8 engine is practically unmatched for turbine-like smoothness.
I agree strongly with the comments made by others regarding RWD vs FWD.
Regards,
Victor
ls1bmw0... My apologies. I know you and some others like to dominate this board. Keep outsiders quiet. I really am trying to keep quiet. Did notice you linked my first report on the obnoxious long-haired Lincoln chief designer. I did say I would still read and think my promise also mentioned not getting mentioned afterwards. But you fanatics had to get some digs in.
You should read the CTS post today which comments quite unfavorably on you LS fanatics here. My interest on all boards here still remains learning about upcoming changes to LS and other cars. stanny1 mentions TL changes. IS300 ones also significant. stanny1 doesn't seem to post on IS330 board. Interesting that the changes being reported elsewhere appear to overshadow things planned for '03 LS.
Let's continue with cars ... and shop vacs.
Lincoln at least had the guts to come out with a car so totally alien to their customer base and be the first to do so. Cadillac is playing catch-up with something that will be three years newer than the LS when it is available for consumers. Of course it's going to be better than the current LS. What do you think they looked at? Just BMW and not the American competition? Lincoln has sold over 80,000 LSes since it's introduction. I'd say that's a success. Not gigantic by some standards, but still a home run.
I don't believe that the veteran members of this board keep outsiders out. If you look back on posts you will find that we have consistently helped out newcomers and people who were shopping different brands with both positive and negative feedback about the LS. As the host basically said in one of her posts, what do you expect if you come in and put the posters on the defensive, welcoming arms? I am the Community Leader of this board? How would you like me to act? Should I agree with you when you denigrate the LS? Should I refrain from joking with you? Then it will be you who dominates this board and that wouldn't be right either. I am supposed to be the cheerleader for this car and I enjoy that role. I'm not about to apologize or make excuses for liking the car as much as I do and there are a lot of others that feel the same way.
Email me at brian.gowing@llsoc.com if you want to continue this discussion.
Compare the LS to what's on the market today. It will come up short in certain areas vs. certain cars, and vice versa. Comparing it to claims, promises, future plans, etc. is just bugle oil.
I am leaving LS land. I'm going to work in another transmission department on another all new transmission.
I promise to not be a stranger here. I am planning to attend LS Mania II, and I hope to see some old friends and make some new ones, too.
I have introduced my replacement to Edmund's. He'll be catching up on a lot of posts, but then you should hear from him.
Participation in this board has been one of the highlights of my career. Thanks for the memories!
Mark Kovalsky
I have to speak up now and tell you that I have been reading this board since January. It is a great place for LS owners to find all kinds of comraderie with the positives and negatives of this vehicle.
However, it has become clear to me that if someone shows up here with a lot less than totally enthusiastic comments about the LS, and that someone is not a poster with whom you - as a group - are already familiar and already recognize as an LS enthusiast, you (again as a group) are not very tolerant of the person's viewpoint.
Certainly that stance is okay in and of itself. We all are entitled to our opinions and none of us need to engage in conversation with folks with whom we share no opinions nor similarities. But honestly, what I see going on here, is not that simple.
Instead, I see active personal attacks towards folks who do not seem to subscribe to the same theories that the "LS enthusiasts" do.
This is not a good thing. It is not what Town Hall is about. All opinions are welcome here, again, as long as the posted message stays within the Membership Agreement.
I have posted this before and interestingly got a number of emails in support of my stance, and only one protesting it - if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.
Again, if we have a troll in our midst, ignoring the presumed troll is the best way to get rid of that person. If the person presumed to be a troll is really not a troll, that person will therefore learn that he or she must word his or her messages differently to get the reasonable response desired.
I appreciate everyone's understanding of the points I am trying to make. If anyone has any questions or anything else to say about this, please feel free to contact me off-line.
Thanks.
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
Well, darn!
We WILL miss you!
Best of luck anyway...
Cheers,
- Ray
Who was hoping to see what you'd do to keep the LS automatic trans. together with a supercharged V8 in front of it...
Not sure what you mean about "newer cars have more or better". Are you talking about the "older" TL that now has a serious Type S? Or the "newer" IS300 that quickly adds manual, Sport Wagon, and soon to be supercharger? Or are you saying an '02 LS is somehow "older" than an '02 330i? Thought both were 2002s. Think all you are doing is confirming that Lincoln isn't making the effort to keep the LS current. It started out pretty good for the price, but then started falling behind, and seems like it will far farther behind. Too bad. Nice platform starved for serious development work. Too bad Jag doesn't seem to want to pick up slack, focusing on X Type.
And talk about being objective. The half of you with the underpowered LS V-6s only want to talk about handling. Of course, since the acceleration numbers are so dismal. But the handling numbers for the base model are underwhelming. Forces you to focus on intangibles so you can always say "My RWD LS is better than your (you name the platform)." That similarly priced '02 3.2TL Type S blows your base '02 LS V-6 away on the highway and on the track. You pan the 3.2TL Type S but the reviewers and buyers aren't. And there isn't any real comparison between 330i/M3 & 530i/M5 manuals and your LS V-6, manual or automatic. Hoping G35 is a great car. And supercharged IS300.
Now we've both had our say. 'nuff said!
I salute you every time I pull out to pass.
Best of luck with your new project, and keep your promise; don't be a stranger.
Scott
Thanks.
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
Sorry to see you go, Mark. You and your help will be missed! I hope you have fun in your new position!
About other things here, if you haven't found your siren, let me know. I'll practice up for the Flinstones run, I'll be the siren. Call and ask for the son of Badge #1871 of the CFD.
Best of luck getting and keeping your hands dirty!
http://lincoln.lmtraining.com/2002/ls/index.htm
Mark. Let me join the others in thanking you for all your past (and future, we hope) invaluable help, your spirit and just the pleasure of knowing you. Good luck in the future and please stay active here & at LLSOC. I'll see you at Wixom in October.
Gary- I think the same forces are at work here that keep you from growing new grass on your lawn, yet have it coming out of every crack in your driveway, sidewalk or patio:)
Artie
It's FWD. It spins its FRONT tires. How many BMW's are FWD? How many MB's are FWD? Ferraris? Porsches?
A Civic SI will outaccelerate an LS too. Whats your point, riez? Do you even own a car?
Buh-bye.
Best of luck with your next project; the members of your new team will be fortunate, indeed, to have you in their midst. Take care & don't be a stranger.
Note to Artie: You forgot the most important advantage that the Trabby has over the LS. It has an edible, soybean-based body shell; if (when) it blows up somewhere west of Laramie, you won't go hungry. ;-)
Best of luck in your new endeavor. Hope all is continuously challenging and variable, and that the new team is the best available.
George
Witness today's rehashing of his same tired bull about why isn't the LS the equivalent of an Aston Martin for 1/100th the price, as are the Acura and the Infiniti. And I'd like to point out that his post today comes one week after this "man of his word" promised he'd leave us to fart amoungst ourselves. As have a dozen other posts of his.
And then I see this message from "Pat the Host" accusing us of not playing nice with others. Bull. Pat's already pulled 2 of my posts referring to riez off the board. How many of riez' have you pulled, Pat? Here's a guy who copies posts from other boards to try to embarass LS owners on this one, has nothing constructive to say, rehashes the same tired mantra several times a day and compares us to the belching cowboys in a Mel Brooks movie. But we're the ones not playing nice?
I'd like to find out how we can request another host, Pat. I am not at all happy with the way you've handled this situation.
Of course, I fully expect you to pull this post using your super-powers. Hopefully you'll refrain from kicking me out of Edmunds long enough to give me a chance to say so long to the folks I've met on this board. LS owners who are unafraid to criticize their own cars, but are quick to come to it's defense when a know-it-all know-nothing trouble-maker shows up and uses it as a whipping boy ad-infinitum vs his dream cars, one a FWD 2-door coupe which is about as much like an LS as a bologna sandwich.
So I hope those who I've made personal contact with will keep in touch. I guess I'll get my LS-hits on the LLSOC site, that is if Brian will have me! Say, riez can't post there, can he?
Well, I'm off to burn the Edmunds ball caps I got from Melissa in Irvine.
George
I have yet to find the PERFECT car. In fact, I don't think that one exists. That, however, does not mean that a BMW or Chevrolet or even a Hyundai doesn't have some sort of merit for some sort of transportational duties on any given day.
There are four cars and a truck in my family. All of them are different, and all of them have their plusses and minuses, depending on what or whom I'm transporting, and how far they or it have to be transported.
In some way, shape or form, I like all of them, yet that doesn't mean that they don't have their individual shortcomings. I'm fully aware of this. Criticize me about my choices, however, and you'll probably get an argument from me. Why?? Because I'm human, and human nature generally is such that we don't like personal criticism. Come on to this board and start "confronting" people about choosing an LS, and you're bound to get a "flare-up".
If you don't like the LS, fine, there are many other cars to choose from. If you want honest feedback from a group of owners, here it is. As my mother told me 45 years ago, "Play nice, and the other kids will play with you".
I don't know what LS board Pat has been monitoring, but those of us who have been here since before January know that many have come here honestly seeking info & have been treated kindly B/C their requests were put forth in a civilized, intelligent fashion. It's all in the perception. Of course, they've been encouraged to give the LS a second look. That's what we're here for. Why would we take the time and effort here if we weren't LS "evangelists?" After making INTELLIGENT comparisons, some have chosen other cars and let us know it. My recall is that they have always been wished well whatever they chose.
You choose what works best for you. That's why they have menus in restaurants. When you go out to eat with friends, do you attack their choices for dinner? Say, you know what? A Timex does the same thing as a Rolex. In some ways the former does it better than the latter. I don't think you can get an Indiglo Rolex that lights up in the movies. However, I'm not going to walk into Torneau Corner in NYC and start insulting the customers B/C they're spending more than $35 on a wristwatch.
My point is people make personal choices for personal reasons & most people are going to react if you insult that choice in a certain manner. My other car is a Nissan Altima. I originally bought it to commute to work in a carpool. I thought it represented a great choice for that purpose. It was reliable, well-built and could economically carry 4 passengers in reasonable comfort and safety for 45 minutes. Now I just use it to drive to the train station & for various errands around town. It serves THAT purpose quite well. However, it's just an appliance. Is it any fun to drive?-not a bit. Would I take it on a trip?-never.
As leadfoot so aptly points out, not all cars are all things to all people. Anyone who can fog up a mirror can see that we are not blind to the LS's shortcomings. All you have to do is read back on this board or better yet, go to LLSOC. We have 2 master technicians to help diagnose problems. We now have all 200 or so TSB's posted & there is a place to voice quality or dealer problems. There is a lengthy wish-list. Is this the sign of a perfect car? If the nay-sayers had been flies on the wall at LS Mania 1, they would have been privy to earfuls that the engineers were greeted with about certain glaring oversights. I can predict with certainty, the same thing will ensue at LS Mania 2. However, the bottom line is we LOVE our cars, warts and all. I wonder if anyone posts insulting criticisms on any of the MG car club boards. How can these people be so enthusiastic about a vehicle with such a repuatation for breaking down, slow acceleration and lack of passenger space?
Sorry for the length of this post, but I felt it neede to be said and after being back at work after a 2-week vacation, I'll do anything except what I'm supposed to be doing:)
John-how could I forget that soybean-based "coachwork?"
Congrats on your new position. I know what its like to stay in one place for too long even if that place is really very nice.
It's not every day that a good design engineer has an impact on his design beyond the drawing board. Your input here and at LLSOC has been invaluable and we will all miss it greatly.
Now will someone please fire a 21 bit salute and organize a fly-over with a "missing file formation". :-)
Good luck, see you at Mania II
Joe
Additionally, I am bewildered why Edmunds would choose to berate a group of enthusiasts especially since Edmunds was so eager to capitalize on and get their name associated with the LS event in Irvine. Whats up with that?
The difficulty I have is that Town Hall exists to allow folks to express their opinions about vehicles as long as the posts meet the terms of the Membership Agreement.
There is nothing in that agreement that prohibits negative opinions being expressed about vehicles and manufacturers. I know you all know this. However, that agreement does require that we treat each other in a civil and respectful manner. Negative opinions about other posters, depending on how they are worded, very often do not meet that test.
I know you are sick of hearing this, but the way to get rid of someone you don't want to hear from is to ignore the posts made by that person. Responding only encourages the posts to continue.
Responding with personal attacks is not within the Membership Agreement and leaves me no choice but to remove such a message.
I said many things in my post last night - one thing was my observation of how some folks are sometimes treated here. Perhaps indeed I do not have the full picture. I apologize if that is the case.
I really am listening to you. I hope you will give me the same courtesy.
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
IMHO threatening Members Agreements is adding fuel to the fire. In addition, I feel that you have been encouraging the flames by the LS bashing posters.
Maybe you should review Apex's reign as moderator to see how this group functioned before your heavy hand came on the scene.
Apex did not threaten and did moderate this forum well by not threatening but encouraging civil behavior. In addition, he did not take sides.
My 2 cents.
I haven't felt insulted or threatened by posts by riez or others who make observations that aren't 100% positive about the LS. This kind of input brings a broader viewpoint that I think is ultimately healthy. One of the purposes of this forum is to see all sorts of viewpoints and information about the subject of interest, and it isn't required that we all have to agree with every bit of it.
Bottom line: Am I still happy I bought a 2000 Lincoln LS-8 back in December of 1999? ABSOLUTELY! My wife and I have taken a half dozen major trips with this car covering all kinds of roads and driving conditions, and we are still surprised at how well and comfortably this car performs its function. Could it be improved? Can *I* be improved? I sure hope so! Constructive criticism is good stuff!
Good Luck on the New Tranny! Make Ford/Lincoln Proud!
Regards,
Airwolf1000
I think its like a beautiful girl with a few minor nits, but in the end you love everything else about her and everybody is just focusing on the wrong things. It is doubly annoying.
We want everybody to See the Big Picture. The LS is what it is and we will take it anyday of the week.
Regards,
Airwolf1000
What the component will ultimately sound like in your home, and to your ears, is another story. In another words, pure performance data isn't always the ultimate way to make a decision. The audiophile sites generally will bear this out.
I feel the same way about cars. In many of the "flaming confrontations" that have gone on here, folks are getting wound up about .03 seconds difference in 0-60 MPH. I'm sure that on the drag strip, in a crucial race, that .03 is important. But during everyday driving ??? .86G on the skidpad, instead of .88G. Can you really tell the difference on one of those long sweeping turns that the LS loves ??
Road test data makes for great bench racing sessions, but ultimately the car has to feel good to you as a purchaser. If it does, you can buy it and enjoy it. If it doesn't, you keep looking. That's the beauty of living in a free, capitalistic society.
Happy motoring to all..........