Lincoln LS

scottc8 · March 2002

dspencer2, my email is in my profile, and if you like I can describe my V1 installation in more detail. Drop me a note.

jhoffman, your point is taken. I'd like to see more effort from Lincoln myself, for the statement it would make, if nothing else.

krystalg, my car averages 23-24 mpg commuting, I reset the computer at every fill, and get 400 miles to empty +/- 10 miles.

re thermostat: I was at the dealer today for routine service and asked about it. They've heard nothing, and ran my VIN just to be sure. Nothing there ('00 V8 Sport, 5/00 build). brucelinc's post suggests it may apply only to early builds.

BTW, they have a black LSE with NO wing on the back. Apparently it's optional.

Scott
LLSOC Member

lsismore · March 2002

Dows anyone know if they have to remove the crome trim around the Tag to perform this TSB. I am curious as to how they got in there to do that. I know it clips in but it looks like a zero presence install from the outside.

swauger · March 2002

Thanks to everyone who responded to me regarding wiring a detector in, helped to know it's been done without screwing up the works. I've been pretty confident doing this to other cars, but none have been so computer intensive as the LS.

Guess this weekend I'll dig out my Fluke 87 and go power wire hunting (be wery wery qwuiet, I'm hunting power and gwronds...). I'm hoping to find an appropriate fuse box point, as these connectors slip over the fuse and offer a spade lug out, and are easy to remove and don't require wire splicing (something I've done so often I no longer even consider it fun :-(), even though it's a reliable contact. Or maybe I'll get the heat gun, soldering station, and heat shrink out. We'll see.

I'm going to try and silicone some rubber to rubber parts at the front of the drivers door/dash interface. I'll let you know if it does any good.

Looking back on it, I wish I'd picked up a V1. The 8500 is pretty good, and I like the display, it shows each band, how many signals, and relative strengths. One thing to avoid with it is do not use "automatic" mode. It cuts down on falsing, but greatly reduces the warning it gives you as the CPU seems to have to crunch a while to make up it's mind. I do like the reduced X band sensitivity mode in city mode, as no police around here run X anymore.

What's really been annoying is that on the main routes I drive to work, they have a ton of temporary radar speed signs "You are going 125" type things, and the school zones have them setup on permanet sign poles and on all the time (I get a constant full K band signal for over a mile and a half!). Add to that the X and K band door openers at all the quicky marts and banks, etc. and it's like being constantly jammed, very hostile ECM environment. That's why the number of sources per band is useful with the Passport, though I can see how the arrows on the V1 could be very useful. I still use the older (and slower approach) of evaluating how the beeps change as I approach reflective objects to tell if someone is ahead or behind, but with instant on that's pretty dicey.

I think for Xmas I'll replace it with a V1 and pass the Passport down to my wife,it's better than her detector. I particularly like the new V1 laser jammer/detector feature. Having worked in electro-optic countermeasures, this is something I grok. ;-)

On another topic, I've got a bit over 14K on my V8 Sport 2000, and it's gotten noticeably smoother and faster, this engine has finally loosened up, and I think the tranny has really learned its pressure settings. Tranny is silky smooth and quick, and the car will spin tires better than it ever did. I did a u-turn at about 15 mph the other day by doing a half donut! Good thing the long arm of the law didn't see. Especially now that the street racing penalties in Florida are, get this, $500 fine, 2 months in jail, and a years license suspension! All because the idiot rice rocket riders here don't show any common sense, but hold half hour grand prix type events through town and on busy roads. Idiots.

JS
LLSOC Charter Member

krystalg · March 2002

I have 9200 miles on the car and I drive with the flow of traffic. The car was just serviced last weekend for the 10k miles service interval.

I use 92 octane...Maybe it will get better over time...I will keep you all posted.

gregwo · March 2002

I checked out the V1 website, but don't see any mention of a Jamming feature. Is this something that they are not advertising? How did you find out about the jamming feature?

On a personal note: I just got a ticket for double the speed limit in a 55mph! I had no idea my LS was cruising at sub-light speed! I didn't loose my license, YET, but the greasy lawyers are working hard to avoid that! I wish, I wish I had the V1 wired up, maybe Johnny Laser wouldn't of nailed me. ;-)

lsismore · March 2002

A few days ago I called the Ford Roadside assistance number to pursue the replacement of my headlights. The dealer recommended because they said the Ford had directed them to not replace the light assy's.

Well i received a call yesterday from the Customer Service group, at the 800#, to go back to the dealer to have them look into this further.

I don't have a problem with going back so many times to have so many little problems fixed but my boss does. I know the service departments may have their hands tied on some of these issues but doesn't it make sense to empower them to decide on the spot, especially when it is very obvious that the problem exists?

I am sure in the long run it cost them as much money and grief as it costs us. After all if we don't make money we can't buy Lincolns. In the long run we all end up paying for the extra days of car rentals, extra shop hours and time lost from work. Of course it doesn't come out of our pockets right now but it will when and if we go to buy another Lincoln or other FOMOCO product. Does anyone else have issue with this or is it just me?

I will let you all know what happens on Monday.

Yours truly,

the foggy light at the end of the tunnel.

hmm · March 2002

I have a 40 minute commute, 21 miles stop and go - 45 -50 MPH when moving, and I am averaging 18 MPG. The first 6 months I had the car I averaged 15. When I fill up it says approx 340 miles to empty +- 5. I went on a long trip (450 miles RT) two days ago, reset my fuel, averaged 24.5 MPH, 80 MPH with some slowdowns due to traffic. When I filled up (300 miles into the trip) it said I now had 375 miles to empty. The 24 - 25 MPH on trips has been very consistent.
2001 V8 Sport

joe166 · March 2002

If the V-1 he got has a "laser jammer/detector feature", he ought to quickly send it to someone to duplicate as the folks at Valentine are pretty adamant about not having ANY jamming capabilities.

swauger · March 2002

Oops, made a mistake. I saw it in a mailing from Escort/Passport, and it's on www.escortradar.com. Could have sworn it was Valetine, but I was wrong. Still, a potentially useful tool that Valentine will probably have to come out with one to keep up.

scottc8 · March 2002

The last time I checked, Valentine was pretty emphatically stating that they weren't interested in "electronic warfare". The basis for the legality of monitoring police radar is that it is a radio transmission on public airwaves.

A few months ago there was an interesting post on the Radar/Lidar detector board from an attorney. His opinion is that Federal law is very specific about citizens' rights to receive ANY radio transmission on public airwaves. IIRC, he suggested that the Commonwealth of Virginia's law against radar detectors would not stand aggressive legal challenge. Actively jamming radar or laser signals opens an entirely different can of legal worms.

Sorry, back on topic. krystalg, at 9200 miles I'd guess your mileage is as good as it's going to get, unless your car has a problem.

Scott
LLSOC Member

swauger · March 2002

Well, I can understand his not wanting to get into the whole legal and ethical tarpit of active electronic warfare, but what he does _is_ electronic warfare/SIGINT, only it's passive not active. Having worked in EW for years, I hate to see the definitions distorted and not accurately represented. There's no difference between a radar/lidar detector and a passive snooping or detection/warning ECM pod on an aircraft. It's argueably more potentially illegal to transmit in the microwave range, as that's controlled by the FCC, however laser transmissions are legal as long as they fall within the limitations of law regarding laser eye safety. The legal issue would arrise in something like interfering with a police officer or obstruction of justice, whereas with microwave jammers (harder to do too) bring up big FCC penalties for operating an unlicensed transmitter.

And another poster was right, the Federal Communications Act of 1934 makes it legal to receive anything broadcast over the electromagnetic spectrum, if you want to protect it you better encrypt it, and I won't even go there with my contempt and disgust with the DCMA and it's restrictions. Not that the FCA of 34 has ever been successfully used in anti-radar states, despite the fact it overrides their state laws unfortunately. Don't get in the way of the state and it's picking your pocket.

lsismore · March 2002

I couldn't be happier with the gas mileage. I am averaging 22 mpg in city traffic and 27 when on the highway.

I now have 44K miles and it purrrrrrss like a kitten. Shift is very smooth now but stanny1 sent me some tips to perform on my getrag to tune it even futher. As far as mileage as a whole I truly expect this car to out live any Ford that I have owned, or family member has owned, before.

My first set of brakes wore out really fast though but now that I know how easy it is to replace them myself I wouldn't care if I had to change them out ever 4 months.

Have a good weekend.

cclittle · March 2002

I was at our local dealer yesterday to "help" my friend test drive a new Mountaineer, and got talking to the General Sales Manager. He hadn't made it to Vegas to see the '03s, but the dealership owner had. He was pretty aware of some of the new features (although we were both good not to be specific about any of them)... but when the discussion came down to Jag vs. Lincoln, he was very certain about one thing: Reitzle will NEVER allow LS power output to match that of the S-Type. Apparently there will always be 20-30 HP difference between the two cars. Not something I want to believe, let alone hear - but it's in accord with what we all think to be true in the back of our minds. Now I was sitting in the room when the LS management team told us this was not the case, but I think the only way we'll ever be sure is to see the same engine (equal output) in both cars.

I want to believe Lincoln - but on the other hand, the arguments against seem VERY plausible. I guess only time will tell.

Personally, I'd like to see Lincoln make the 4.2L S-Type engine optional on the LS and bump it to about 310 HP, for a true "Sport" version.

jhoffman61 · March 2002

Ford Engineer math - American Torque = British Horsepower :-) Of course, we have to get the torque first.

scottc8 · March 2002

Chris, I'm in exactly the same frame of mind as you, having no reason to disbelieve the folks at Lincoln, yet running into the apparent logic of Jaguar always being #1. OTOH, the difference in power isn't all that great right now, and I can't recall reading from someone who has driven both the Jag 4.0 and the LS V8 that the Jag seems much faster. If the S-type is selling successfully at around $15k more than the Lincoln, it's hard to believe the engine power is selling it. The two cars are not that directly competitive in the minds of most people, so a "horsepower hierarchy" doesn't necessarily have to be in the plan.

I haven't seen any rumors or speculation on the Jaguar V8 engine for '03, other than the "R". Maybe we'll have a little clearer picture of the Jaguar/Lincoln "rivalry" in a few months.

nosho · March 2002

The Jag feels no faster than the LS since it's extra HP is needed to push it's additional 300 pounds around (which is 8% more weight than an LS).

scottc8 · March 2002

I didn't realize there was that much weight difference. Never got very far past the sticker price when checking out the S-Type specs. I love the Jaguar interior though, just not $15k worth.:)

ezaircon4jc · March 2002

Saw a cool plate on an LS tonight. NO SUV. Too bad I couldn't attract his attention in the dark at ~40mph and LLSOC him! Our freeways need a new name. Like parking lots!

Mike
LLSOC Charter Member

ezaircon4jc · March 2002

Got behind one of these today. And they say our posterior is ugly. I had to change lanes to keep from......., well, you know. The rear looks pinched with a twin exhaust tip alá BMW. If I had ever considered putting this car on my list, today would have removed it instantly!

stanny1 · April 2002

Mike, just imagine it with a true dual exhaust ala Borla. But the battery still needs to be trunk mounted. The red looks the best because the tailights (LED) and body color match. Don't take on one of these unless it's in the corners. It will out accelerate a BMW 330i manual even though it's got an auto.
I haven't seen one of these in the flesh but I'm watching. Rayinsaw, Cdpinhead and I read all the posts on their board.
Infiniti is really out to take on the propeller heads head on.

ronniepooh · April 2002

At my last warranty visit, dealer told me I needed to replace my original rear brake pads (50,000 miles on the car, V6 Sport/Auto). Pulled the wheel over this past weekend, and noticed I still had approximately 33% pad left, at least on the drivers side. Figured I would swap em out anyway, since I had the wheel off, but unfortunately, my medium sized "C" clamp that worked on the front, was too small for the rears. Ended up putting the old pads back in for now. Im sure I have at least 5,000 miles left on them. Still running the stock Firestone Firehawks as well, and the rears look pretty shot. They are close to the wear bars. I'll have my new set put on all four corners within the next month or so. Other than that, the job looks pretty straightforward and easy. In addition to the two caliper bolts, you need to remove two larger bolts that attach a rear suspension piece (A-Arm, I think) to the caliper assembly as well. These have the blue loc-tite compound on them, so prepared to have some of this handy when you do your rear pad replacement. When i do the job, I will post the procedure on LLSOC.COM, and hopefully have some pics to share this time as well.

ronniepooh · April 2002

Anyone else have this issue? Appears that my passnenger side outboard belt has slightly twisted into the retractor up on the pillar, and no amount of pulling, tugging, gently pulling...will get it to come out any further or retract. Anyone know how to remove the panel on the pillar so I can get to the retractor?
Thanks

airwolf1000 · April 2002

What is the Cheapest Torque Wrench with which I could Rotate my Wheels and torque them to the Correct Spec?

Also what is the correct Torque Spec for the LS Wheels?

Regards,
Victor

airwolf1000 · April 2002

Hello everyone,
I posted this on the LLSOC Website but thought I would also invite any LS Owners out here to the First Dallas LS Owners Get together!

It will be April 12 at 7:30 at the Humperdinks on Northwest Highway and I-35. It is close to the AMC Grand Theatre. We can all share a few drinks and talk about the LS. I will bring pictures of past Mania Events I have attended. Also we can discuss any interest in Autocrossing and I can fill people in on any questions as I have done it with the LLSOC group a couple of times (Practice Sessions).

Hope to see anyone in the area that can attend. There are no requirements except that you have to be an LS Enthusiast!

Please E-mail me at victor.contreras@llsoc.com if you can attend.

Best Regards,
Victor

drolds1 · April 2002

Vic, the torque spec for the LS wheels is 100 lb-ft. All models are the same.

As to torque wrench advice, I'm in no position to give advice as mine is the old bar type that's about 30 years old. How often are you going to use it? I find that it doesn't pay to buy cheap tools. You'll only have to go out and buy something decent anyway after it breaks. In this case, you have the additional requirement of accuracy. You probably don't need a Snap-On top of the line model. I'd say a Sears Craftsman would probably be decent for the money and for your purposes. Get at least a "click-stop" model. It's a lot more convenient to use.

I'm sure others will have other opinions.

Regards,
Artie

airwolf1000 · April 2002

Thanks Artie. I was looking at a craftsman and that is what I will probably get... Thanks for the Torque Spec. Info.

Victor

brunobus · April 2002

Let me save you some frustration on the rear brakes when you get around to replacing the pads. I thought that they just compressed in, ala the front brakes, and just about broke my c-clamp in trying to get them to do this. I finally ended pulling the entire caliper off the car so I could figure out what the heck it was that I was doing wrong. I fought it for about another hour or so and finally realized what the 2 little notches on the pistons must be for. I am guessing that they have a special tool (spanner wrench might work) that allows you to turn the pistons using those notches. I used my channel-lock pliers to grab ahold of the piston and that worked, but they did put a couple of gouges into the top of the piston head. Nothing that would hurt anything, but obviously they weren't done by a professional.

I've probably done about 20 different brake pad replacements on different cars and never have I come across anything like this before. Gotta learn somehow though.

Bruno
LLSOC member

scottc8 · April 2002

Artie, hang on to that 30 yr. old wrench!

Hardest thing about buying tools nowadays is getting in between cheap junk and Snap-On. I agree w/Artie that Craftsman is probably your best bet.

ezaircon4jc · April 2002

My Sable has the same thing. It does take a special tool to turn the piston back into the caliper. After I tried in vain to push the piston back in, my mechanic neighbor told me about the procedure. Fortunatly for me, he had an old "piston turner inner" tool that worked. We speculated that that design allows the caliper to pull double duty as the normal and parking brake.

lobsenza · April 2002

I purchased a dial type (newer type) torque wrench at Autozone 3-4 years ago and have been very happy with it. I think it was $20-$30. The critical thing about torquing lug nuts is that they are all torqued the same (and tight enough to not fall off). The reason for this is that uneven torque on lug nuts causes rotor warping (I actually proved this, send an email if you want the details).

slunar · April 2002

OK Stanny, I'm not very impressed with the G35 sedan, however I just saw photos of the 2 dr. G35 coupe and Nissan my be converting me. The coupe looks really slick plus it has 15 more horses for a total of 275. Most likely the extra HP is from the agressive looking dual exhaust on it. Plus the coupe will have the 6 speed manual at fall 2002 into. I wish Ford could get its sh*t together, how many of us have been crying for a DEW98 coupe? For a 6 speed etc. I've pretty much been a Ford loyalest for many years but my lease is up in 11 months and I'm not waiting for 2005 when Ford is promising to get its car product lines in the 21st century.

leadfoot4 · April 2002

A couple of years ago, I purchased a medium priced torque wrench at Sears. I brought it into work, to check it out on our test fixture.
The guys in the calibration lab were all skeptical, as they felt the beam wrenches have proven to be more accurate.
The room fell silent, as the Craftsman "clicker" was dead on, as long as you pulled the wrench smoothly.

lsismore · April 2002

I love this LS, and have owned many fords, but I have to join slunar in saying that Ford needs to wake up and smell the market. There are too many foreign luxury cars hitting the street that have great curb appeal and pricing. I to will be looking for another car in about 10 months and honestly will be looking abroad for the first time.

I would like buy a ford supported performance, maybe SVT, LS. If you look out on the streets today you will see a growing population of car buyers that like and buy performance sedans. Maybe they should stop taking market studies and take a nice drive on a Saturday to look at what we are doing to our cars and I don't mean just the LS.

Heck even the 2003 Maxima is looking good to me.

ronniepooh · April 2002

Regarding the rear brake tips. Glad you told me, otherwise I would have gone NUTS out in the parking lot. Now that you mention it, I recall this same type of situation on some other car Ive done brakes on. It was either an old Jetta or maybe a 1979 242GT Volvo. I think I used a long flathead screwdriver to do a simultaneous push with c-clamp/turn with the screwdriver. I assume that it turns in clockwise?

ronniepooh · April 2002

When removing one of my wheels this past weekend for the attempt at rear brake pad change, I found that the lugwrench seems to have maybe some excess black coating that goes into the actual socket. I could not get the lug wrench firmly over 2 of the 5 lugnuts, and i sort of stripped one of the lugnuts. I ended up using a breaker bar and socket, and all went well. Im going to end up leaving the breaker bar and socket in the trunk, though.

YMMV

ezaircon4jc · April 2002

Sure, now I gotta remember which way the piston turns

. IIRC, it is clockwise. The tool I used, and will purchase when I do the LS rears, only "worked" one way, and I believe it is clockwise.

slunar · April 2002

Right on lsismore. I just saw an article that Lincoln will be killing off the Blackwood in December. Originally expected to sell >10,000 a year, only a handful have been sold since introduction. While I can belive that more upscale luxury pickups could be sold in significant #'s, the over the top and useless Blackwood was completely off target. When it was announced I couldn't understand for the life of me who would buy one other than a handful of people with lots of money that just have to have something different.

Imagine if Ford had put all the money they wasted on the Blackwood into a DEW98 coupe. I'm sure that they could easily sell 25,000 of them a year.

You know that Ford is in trouble when they are pre-announcing cars like the "500". I was in sales for 20 years and learned early on that the commission rate for future products was 0%. You only resorted to selling futures when no one would buy what you had today.

saveri · April 2002

As an FYI a new TSB has been issued for the rear window regulator. The TSB # is 02-7-3.

ronniepooh · April 2002

ezaircon...whats the name of the actual tool thats supposed to be used to push in the turning rear caliper piston?

gkarg · April 2002

Caliper Tool: I'm not sure what it is called exactly. I do know that this design is also on the Continentals and i'm INTIMATELY familiar with using my Uncles tool to turn them in. Let me tell you... the older the car the MORE difficult it is to turn those pistons in!

Caliper Maintenance: One very important thing I also learned is to keep the working parts (anchor pins)of the brakes greased. I haven't looked lately at my LS's setup, but on the Conti - there are rubber boots that protect the anchor pins. These need to be maintained & greased. I had to replace the anchor plate & pins on my 92 Conti because they seized & only the inside brake pad worked - Not Cheap! (It stops much better now.)

Torque wrenches: Funny that came up... I was just searching for Torque sockets (that work with air wrenches) on the Sears website this morning - EXPENSIVE! My uncle had some at his garage, but had to take them back into work. They were AWESOME to use!

ezaircon4jc · April 2002

I have no idea! I plan on just asking at my parts department.

goodyrl · April 2002

In the Owners Manual there are instructions for setting it up so there are warning chimes when the driver's seatbelt isn't hooked up. I tried to engage it & couldn't. When I had the car in for the window regulator work I asked them to turn it on. They said "we couldn't get it on, you don't have that option on this car" Is that possible? Doesn't make sense to me. Thanks

ronniepooh · April 2002

Just read the Edmunds review. Looks like the 2003 S types get an all new 6 speed automatic transmission. Wow. This is pretty big news. BMW no longer has the short-lived bragging rights to the "only production vehicle with a 6-speed automatic transmission". The reviews on the new Jag 6 speed auto are pretty positive.

One down note..The 2003 S class V6 still has 240hp. I guess we LS owners can take that as a hint that the 2003 V6 LS wont have any more than 240hp, IF it gets that much.

G35 is looking better and better...

lsismore · April 2002

If anyone finds a source to order the brake tool from i sure would appreciate it if oyu would post it or email it to noahpullen@hotmail.com.

i have a brake job coming up on the LS and don't want to go into it without the proper tool. There is no telling what I might screw up.

Thanks

scottc8 · April 2002

goodyrl, are you sure yours isn't working? My car has to be in gear for about 30 seconds before the alarm goes off.

saveri re TSB: Thanks, again.

Scott
LLSOC Member

slunar · April 2002

Ronnipoo, 240 HP is probably about the limit for the 3.0L Duratech, without super charging. @ 240 HP that's 80 HP / liter. The new 3.5L Nissan V6 that has received so much positive press is putting out 74 HP / liter. Even the 2 door G35 coming this fall with 275 HP is 78.5 HP / liter assuming that it is still 3.5L displacement.

So the 240 HP 3.0L Jag engine can still hold its head up high after 4 years. The only problem is Ford is behind the present HP race as most of the competition has blown by the 3.0L mark with their V6's. I think that the new 3.3L Jag / Volvo / Lincoln V6 is slated for 2004 intro (if it hasn't been pushed back). However Ford may have missed again by not reading the market trends and designing the new V6 too small.

gkarg · April 2002

The rear one is referred to as a "Piston Turning Tool"

The tool need for front brake piston compression is a C clamp (medium is the one Ron uses.)

ls1bmw0 · April 2002

For those of you who grumbled about no Lincoln factory involvement on this board, did any notice the last two posts from saveri? The first one was a while ago when we started asking about what the official word from Lincoln was on the regulators and he posted that a new TSB was coming out, the second one is post 8138 and he notes the new TSB that deals with the window regulators. Would anyone like to guess that he works for Lincoln and is giving us the information that we requested (unofficially)?

Don't know if anyone noticed it but no one responded to it. Just thought you'd like to know that there are a number of Lincoln folks who may not be apparent to y'all when you're grousing about no Lincoln representation

Brian

jhoffman61 · April 2002

Just briefly glanced at the Car & Driver article on the new 400hp Jag S-type. I think their expectations on the new ZF six-speed were not met (no manumatic).

The car itself was not as quick as they were expecting (something about no LSD...)

heyjewel · April 2002

Brian;

I noticed both his posts. Wasn't sure who he was. Thanks for the info. I did do some grousing and saveri's posts (and of course Marks) do help, but it's still not like it was in the Jim Rogers/Dick Cupka era. Still, maybe better than most other boards.

Lincoln LS

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