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Actually the resale value is more of an issue up front. Hondas typically have insanely good resale value. There are still 99s out there selling for what they sold for new. Insane. The issue there is "we have it right here right now."
Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
I'm sorry Sedonna owners for taking up your time. I'm totally impressed with the Sedonna, good luck with your new vans.
Pjd58
So far my experience with CarsDirect has been a dream. They found the car I wanted in just one day. This is in stark contrast with my experiences with dealers. When I first became interested in the Sedona, I couldn't find one to test drive. I was on the local dealerships call list. Two or three times they called saying they had one to test drive. By the time I got there (usually within 30 minutes), the van had sold and I wouldn't be allowed to drive it. On the last day of 1.9% financing, I found one at an out of town dealership. My wife and I drove the hour and half with three kids to test drive the van. Miracle of miracles it was still there. It drove like a dream, but it was not equipped the way we wanted. I think, no problem, just get 'em to find me one. Wrong. They won't sell me one unless they can find it that day and have VIN in hand. Tick-tock the clock was running out on the 1.9% financing. Bzzzt, time ran out. I couldn't believe they wouldn't sell me a van.
I wait a while. I get an unexpected windfall that makes financing a lot less important. I head back to the local dealership. I tell 'em exactly what I want. Sorry, they don't have that on the lot. Duh, I know that. I ask them to find one. They say they can check their "promised list," but wait a minute Mr. So- and-so has the list and he's going to be on vacation this week. Dumbfounded that they don't seem to want to make the effort, I leave.
I pack up the wife and kids and head to yet another out-of-town dealership thinking somebody surely wants to sell me a van. Before going I call the dealer up and the salesman assures me that they can get whatever I want. They have "special pull" with Kia. I get there and the salesman starts asking me a bunch of questions about my present van. He's writing it down. I interrupt him and said I wasn't sure I wasn't even going to trade the van in. He said that he needed to know how much I needed for the van. For example, if you want $2000 for the van, he'd have to tell his manager $3000, so I'd have a better chance to get what I was really wanting. This should have been my first clue.
Anyway we give him our 3 choices on color and the options we want. He has someone start a search for the vehicle. I think, "wow, someone who finally wants to sell me a van." Searching for the van takes forever. While waiting I start looking at the Sedona's on the lot. Hum, pin stripping $400. ADM $1300. Protection package $600. I mosey back into the salesman office and casually ask, "what's ADM." He replies that's After Dealer Markup. I say that I'm paying for that. He said, "yes you will." I asked if they were willing to deal off that at all, and he said no. I told him he was wasting my time, and I pick up my briefcase and start out the door. He stops me, but we proceed to get into an argument. He goes on and on about how any company with a hot product will get as much as they can for it. He gives the song and dance of how that was the way with the PT Cruiser. He tells me how dealerships are making so little profit on cars. I point to the graph on a poster in his office showing the dramatic growth in Kia dealerships. I tell him I was able to buy a 1991 Miata at MSRP. He says their dealership has yet to take off the ADM. I said the world was full of stupid people, but I wasn't one. He said all the dealers were putting the markup on. Having checked the sticker prices at other dealerships, I knew he was lying. I told him that unless he was willing to deal, I was walking. He said only his manager could do that. I said fine, then I'd deal with him. He said, and I quote, "no, you deal with me only." "Really" I said. I packed up my briefcase yet again. I walk over the manager's office, knocked on the door, reached out and shook the hands of the first two people and said, Hello, my name is D. Harper and I'd like to buy a Kia van. About this time, tomfool salesman follows me in looking flustered, so I add, "and this gentleman won't sell me one." Salesman explains they are looking for a van on the computer now. And tells me he'll give me a price as soon as the results come in.
Finally, an hour or so later, they find a van. There best price $22,635 (MSRP $23,230). Hmm, guess he was lying about the discounting. At this point the man had so pissed me off, I wouldn't buy it from him at invoice. I tell him my wife and I need to line up the finances and will contact him the next day. Now he goes on and on about how hard these things are to find (a direct contradiction to what he said on the phone to get me down) and that it may be gone. I told him we'd take that chance.
I go back to the local dealership and tell 'em about the ADM. They laugh and say that they don't do that. I tell, I need 'em to find me a van as I was hot to buy. Okay, they say, they'll look tomorrow. Well tomorrow comes and they haven't even looked. All they say is, well, we have 15 coming on Friday, but we won't know what they are until Wednesday. Oh brother.
Thank God for CarsDirect. One day and they find me exactly what I want and they beat the dealership by $744 to boot.
dwh
Steve
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Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
I tried Cars Direct.com, all they could offer was MSRP. Which is still better than this 'Add On' fee, but not quite good enough. I guess my search continues.
I'll use carsdirect.com again.
On the MPV vs Ody problems I was going to rebut with "well, there are more posts in the MPV problems than the Ody problems"), but then I went looking and in both cases I'd say the majority of posts aren't about problems anyway. I'll even admit this is probably more true in the MPV topic.
To all you new Sedona owners - may you have the same satisfying experience.
I am trying to get hold of a 2001 Dodge Durango, but I can't find the car that I want.
I have tried CarsDirect.com, but I don't know how it works. How does it work? Do they find the car I want near my area, so I could test drive it? Or do they just sell them to me?
The best deal I've got is a 24,770 US dollars on a Dodge Durang SLT (!! CHEAP !!), and I am willing to buy, but I am hasitant about CarsDirect.com.
Thanks in advance.
My wife is very interested in the Sedona but I am not familiar with Kia at all. How does their reputation stack up with other manufacturers? Yes, the longer warranties are nice but it's still a hassle to have to take the vehicle back to the dealer and it's even worse when you have to argue with them to do the work under the warranty.
If anyone has feedback about Kia reliability, (I realize the Sedona is a new model so there can't be any data) please let me know.
Thank you,
Sean
The 27500 $CDN is about 17515 $USD using todays rates.
I dunno what taxes are added to that, but the Kia may be an even better bargain north of the border.
TB
I think I'll just hunt for a Durango in my area instead..
I think some folks who purchased Odysseys found this out. Honda America and Honda Canada are two different "companies"
Probably the same for Kia. So any costs savings would be negated in hassle and possibly real money. (Or even Canadian looney money 8^) )
TB
Also adding to the mix is the fact that cars are priced less for the same thing here than in teh States. Seems you folks have more disposable income and are charged accordingly.
However, what's the concensus on RESALE VALUE? I hope to keep the car for say 8 years, or 96K miles (keep it under 100Kmiles). I hope that the car won't cost me any more than $2000/yr in depreciation costs. Is it possible that if I pay $22K for an EX now and take off $16K for depreciation and use, that I could possibly get $6K for my Sedona in 2008?
I just sold my 93 Olds Silhouette for $4K with 129K miles and it cost me $20K originally. I put in at least $2K over the years on top of that so I figure it cost me $2K/yr in depreciation and use. I hope that the Sedona would be similar (though the cost of minivans today are obviously higher than in 1993).
Opinions?
How much interest would be paid for the extra $10,000 extra cost at purchase?
Buy the vehicle you personally prefer. We were as impressed with the ride and drive of the Sedona as with the Odyssey and Sienna.
Hypothetical resale can change in 8 years. If you like the Odyssey or Sienna more than the Sedona, bite the bullet and pay the extra $10,000.
Remember that the Sedona does not have ABS as standard equipment. The Sedona also has much poorer EPA fuel guestimates than the Odyssey and Sienna. However, the price difference does make a person look seriously at the Sedona.
I was considering private sale, not trade in, as the dealer will rip you off as best as he can. You are correct, there is a substantial savings in interest over the course of time by not spending the extra $10K. With regard to differences, I have driven the Sienna, and find it just a tad better than the Sedona, not worth anywhere near the difference. I have yet to drive the Honda since I refuse to pay over sticker, as some dealers impose. I don't like ABS anyway, and according to people in this forum, you can expect 24 MPG on the highway with regular gas (compared with premium on the Honda).
I would still like to know by % loss what the difference would be between the Honda, Toyota and Kia over about 8 years. That, to me, is a factor.
Thanks.
Kias historically (short history) have terrible depreciation but I wouldn't necessarily bet on that continuing for 8 years.
I'm not always known to be in agreement with carleton1, but this "Buy the vehicle you personally prefer. We were as impressed with the ride and drive of the Sedona as with the Odyssey and Sienna.
Hypothetical resale can change in 8 years. If you like the Odyssey or Sienna more than the Sedona, bite the bullet and pay the extra $10,000."
We tried a lot of things and couldn't get off of wanting the Odyssey so we bit the bullet and bought one. Love it. Best of luck with your choice!
As for MSRP, I can not understand why people are so fixated about paying for it? It is just a number thought up by bean counters, I'd rather be the one who judges what the car is "worth" not someone trying to maximize profit. For example, say vehicle "A"'s MSRP is $12,000 and vehicle "B"'s MSRP is $10,000. A $1,000 discount is given for vehicle "A" while you have to pay $1000 over MSRP for "B". Price wise, they're identical, but since vehicle "B" costs more than MSRP, it is bad, while paying less than MSRP, automatically makes "A" the better buy, right?????? Of course not. You should let how much you're willing to spend and what you want dictate your decision.
Keep in mind that all Ex's in Canada come with ABS and 2-tone paint. We also get the automatic windshield wipers that I am not sure are offered in the US.
Many things are prices less in Canada than the US using equivalent currencies. The artificially low exchange rate of the C$ against the greenback means that manufacturers just cannot charge the same margins here if they wish to sell any product.
I believe that under current Canadian law, vehicles must be registered in Canada for at least 6 months before they can be exported. New vehicles cannot be exported. The auto manufactures have also managed to coerce the customs people on both sides of the border to enforce non-tariff barriers such as safety and emission regulations to stem the flow of vehicles south.
There are a large number of late-model used vehicles going into the US from Alberta weekly. There are brokers willing to find the vehicle of your choice up here and deliver it south for you.
I highly recommend carsdirect.com. Lisa Hoyer of Kia of Union City has been just great. -dwh
Does anyone know of any other hitch designed or suited for the Sedona? -dwh
Anyone tried a fisheye? -dwh
As to those who are concerned about resale value at high mileage, I must say I drive a vehicle until I get the "good" out of it, meaning until it begins having substantial problems, and don't expect a high resale for it. I figure I only get the most for my money if I drive it almost as far as it will go, and have never really gotten what I felt a car was worth to me if I sold it while it was in good shape.
This is indeed less than the Kia warranty offered in the US. However I understand that the last five years of the powertrain warranty is quite limited. Still vastly better warranty than on anything else. Our goal is to sell ours before the warranty period is up.
Kia likely had to delete something to make up for the pummelling that they are taking on the Canadian Dollar.
Regarding resale value. We carefully analyzed the lifetime cost of the Kia against the Windstar and Caravan. Given that the Kia was (at that time) the only 2002, had low-interest financing and was priced about $6k below the others, even with a very conservative estimate of resale value in 5 yrs it was cheaper to own. The only vehicles close were 2001 lease-return Windstars with 30,000 km and vastly fewer options.
If you can drive a spreadsheet it is quite simple to figure out. Take your cash down payment, add the market value of your trade, add the total of all your payments (say for 5 years) and subtract a conservative estimate of the resale in 5 yrs. All minivans seem to depreciate greatly. I used the bluebook (blackbook in Canada) value of 5-yr old base-model domestic vans. The result is the lifetime ownership cost of the vehicle. This will probably frighten you, but provides a good method of comparing all the various financing schemes on the market.
It appears the "limit" in their 10 year 100,000 mile drivetrain "limited warranty" is who it is transferrable to if the vehicle is sold. The original owner is covered by it, and if he sells the vehicle to a member of his immediate family, it is transferred to the new owner, or if it is a lease vehicle and the person who leased it buys it, it transfers to him. Any other buyers of a used Kia will have only the 5 year 60,000 mile warranty.
I printed it and read over it fairly carefully and it appears to be a great warranty, covering "all internal parts," even seals and gaskets. It excludes damage caused by abuse by the owner, such as using the wrong fluids, but I wouldn't expect them to cover things like that.
Of course, as an independent mechanic told me when we were discussing rebuilt engines offered by two companies, one of which has a 3 year 100,000 mile warranty and the other only a 12 month 12,000 mile one, "I'd rather have a good engine than a good warranty." Turned out when I read the actual warranty of the company that appeared on the surface to be the best it wasn't even a good warranty, as it limited the amount the remanufacturer would be liable for to half of what you paid for the engine. The thing is, I'd rather have a dependable, long lasting vehicle than a great warranty. You would think manufacturers would focus on that first rather than the convenience factors like "magic seats" and power sliding doors. I guess they come in handy sitting beside the road waiting for a tow truck, though.
You would think so wouldn't you? But the fact is, product features are usually driven by the customers. What people want, is what engineers focus on. As for the power sliding doors and the magic seat, yes they are nice conveniences, so please don't knock on them until you've actually lived with them. Yeah, the first thing to probably break on my Ody would be the power sliders (have no problems yet), but for the convenience I have no regrets. I can argue the same for power locks and power windows can't I?
If you want convenience up the wazoo, look at the DC vans, no one can beat them on that!
It is difficult to choose among minivans for that very reason. We were greatly impressed with the Odyssey's exceptional flexibility of seating (2nd row adaptability and 3rd row Magic Seat), the overall feeling of spaciousness, the "twice as much space behind 3rd seat", and most powerful standard engine.
We got a very well equipped 99 GC SE even though the Odyssey excelled in some areas. We are enjoying the separately controlled temperature for driver and front passenger; the complete overhead console with outside temp/Compass, and Trip Computer; the built in child safety seat; the 10 speaker 200 watt Infinity sound with Cassette and CD capability; alloy wheels; heating coils at base of windshield; movement actuated power door locks; and great service of an excellent Dodge dealer just over 1 mile from home.
We continue to examine minivans with Odyssey, Sienna, Sedona, and DC minivans each having excellent reasons for purchase.
The Sedona was very comfortable, quiet, and smooth.It has the best foot and leg room of all minivans (for me as a driver and my wife as a front seat passenger). I find it incredible that Kia can sell the well equipped Sedona EX for only $21,590 MSRP (slightly more if ABS is added)....and the nearest Kia dealer is selling The Sedona at $700 BELOW MSRP.
That little 2.5L in the MPV is just too anemic for a modern minivan.
I agree with you and jondot that the Sedona is a very nice, comfortable, quiet minivan with good performance. It has better leg and foot room for driver and front passenger than our 99 GC SE but lacks many of the nice little extras we enjoy on our GC (But also has an MSRP that is much lower than our GC had).
I wasn't knocking the conveniences or those that want or need them, DTKWOK, just making the point that putting them into a vehicle that isn't reliable as a basic product distracts customers from what they should focus on, and that is a reliable basic vehicle. Instead of working on reliability to increase sales manufacturers seem to just add a convenience people really want, at additional cost to the customer, and accomplish the same thing. Shame on us as consumers for being so easily deceived.
It is just that when I spend $20,000.00+ for a product that I expect it to either be reliable or if faults are discovered the first things addressed in new units. And I would also expect manufacturers to lead the charge to fix the faults without charge to the customer. Not that they would just be ignored and the product still sold with the same fault.
Unfortunately, we the customers get carried away with the conveniences and buy "extended warranties," which are nothing more than insurance against poor reliability, as well as an additional cost to drive a vehicle, instead of refusing to buy the product.
No, I have nothing against conveniences, it's just that I expect them in a reliable vehicle and feel I have the right, as a customer, to expect that when I spend my hard earned money on a major purchase.
In design theory, there is a model known as Kano's Model of Customer Satisfaction where it says that there are 3 quality levels in a product: basic, performance, and excitement. Basic quality are those things that customers come to expect from a product, when it's there, people are neutral about it, but if it's not, people are dissapointed. Performance quality is what people have said that they wanted in a product, the better the performance, the better the product according to the customer. Excitement quality are things that the customer doesn't expect, but if received in a positive way, gives the product a higher chance of success in the market ("wow" requirements). Designers go for the excitement quality, unfortunately, like you said, I don't think reliability is in that type of product quality. Okay, better get off my soap box now.
Our 99 GC SE has ABS and, as with the 91 Astro, a test on a corner on a very slippery road (with no vehicles present and at a low speed)proved to me that with ABS it is almost impossible to skid while applying the brakes. I like ABS but can't argue with USAA. I would have NO worry about a vehicle without ABS. Kia could not include all options on the Sedona and still sell it for a remarkably LOW price.