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Oil Filters, whose is best, and Why?
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Comments
The second half I think I disagreed with. Why does everybody always use their own personal numbers in a synth vs. dino cost debate as if that is the only set of numbers that matters? Maybe for that person, it's all that matters. But there are lots of different ways that people look at that comparison.
The notions of 'better' and 'performance' as they relate to oil filters are quite fuzzy. How exactly do you define and/or measure these?
What is hard to understand about the fact that everyone who uses an SL dino and changing at 3k is throwing away at least 25% (not 33%) of the useful life of their oil? What is so hard to understand about the fact that dino users ought to do oil analysis (and many do) also to see where they should really change their oil? Like syn users, dino users also have to include analysis in the calculation. Also, if the same % of oil changes are analyzed, then dino users will be spending more on analysis than syn users. Do you really want to include this cost too as it will make the syn look even more economical than dino?
2000 BMW 330i up to 15k. They also use a propriatery 0w-40 or 0w-50? synthetic.
Since MB and BMW provide the oil during new car warranty they 1. do not run afoul of anti trust laws. 2.can get away with making you use their oil. The hope is after the warranty that you will want to or continue to pay the very high per quart charge, and buy through the OEM logistical chain.
Actually, BMW uses a Castrol produced 5W30. They ask you to use regular Castrol synthetic or Mobil 1 if BMW synthetic is not available. They charge $3.80 for a quart of BMW synthetic oil. Not a high cost IMHO.
MB uses 0W40 Mobil 1.
Jack
the 15,000 mile changes of Ruking1, well, in 5 vehicles I have "two" that maybe could make it there realistically and have a good analysis result. All others about 7500. No way it is cost effect for me to use synthetic especially with analysis. I do it because it is somewhat of a hobby and I can afford to do it now and I do believe it offers a larger window of protection. I cannot really recommend analysis to anyone that changes their oil every 3-4000 miles. A true waste of money unless they suspect a glycol problem. Their car body will fall off long before that engine will with 3000 mile changes.
Same is true of using a high cost (better quality???) filter then a $3-$4 off the shelf. Also, like humam life expectancy, yea, we can alter how long we live through lifestyle (oil changes etc as teh engine comparison) but the ole genetics make the biggest difference. Thus, if you have a crap engine to begin with or if you are unlucky enough to have an accident at 15,000 miles or if it is stolen or you yourself die in the long run and (very likely) get bored with the same car after 10 years, whether you use synthetic oil, pricey filters or the opposite does not really matter. What matters is what you feel comfortable with and if you can sleep at night with your plan.
How can you possibly say that? I have not seen a reasonable economic analysis that supports that. Are you changing the synthetic at 3k or something?
I repeat, I have never had engine failure due to oil or filter. So why squander an additional $20 for an analysis I do not need, and know I do not need from 45 years of car ownership experience.
As for the supposed 25% life still left in the oil at 3000 miles. An easy solution. Just go on to 4200 miles and you will have found the "perfect" point at which to change your oil.
This is all fun reading, but I think unless you are just having a good time doing all this experimenting you are wasting your time.
Did you really say, with a straight face, that dino users who change their oil every 3-4k miles should be doing oil analysis? Give me a break. And in the same post, you implied that SL oil can safely go 4k miles without analysis? I am getting really confused. I know what *I* think, but I am confused about what *you* think.
There are a million different scenarios that would lay out a situation in which dino is cheaper to use than synthetic. I've given a few examples in the past and won't bother to repeat that again. Why do you insist on pretending that it's impossible? You make these wide-ranging statements based on what YOU think the intervals should be. Well, there are other intervals that people use.
fwatson I will say one thing on the oil analysis-as armtdm pointed out: An oil analysis can spot serious problems like antifreeze leak or an intake leak which can be addressed before uglier issues arise.
Some just go by what Jiffy Lube and oil manufacturers say. These companies make more money if you change more often.
Some listen to what others (fathers, automakers, their specific car manual etc.) and just do what they have been taught.
Still others want to know what is REALLY required whether its dino or synthetic. Those of us in that camp will do an analysis and find out. Each car is different. Even within the same make and model there can be some differences. Also, each driver has different driving habits. Different areas of the country will also affect how an oil performs differently. Therefore, another person's analysis is helpful but does not fully define what you might see in your own car. There are alot of analyses here and on Bob's site and yes, some of them are even from dino oil. No one said it was critcal or necessary but it is helpful in determining YOUR requirements for YOUR car.
Feel free to guess for your own car, I choose not to for mine.
Do fleet operators run an analysis every oil change on every vehicle? Or do they rely on the results of tests on another identical vehicle as a guide to their maintenance?
I have a feeling they would soon be bankrupt if they followed the every vehicle/every time schedule. Of course truck fleet operators are also dealing with changing gallons at a time as opposed to 4-5 quarts.
Any fleet operators here that can tell us?
While the care and feeding of a multi million dollar aircraft might be considered important, the goal that kept me motivated and at times up at night was to never put a pilot at the risk of not fulfilling the mission due to a maintenance malfunction. Even though at times his life was really quite secondary.
Of course for our cars, the standards are mercifully not that extreme.
After an engine was put together sometimes it wouldn't pass the performance specs. Too many notches in the blades and new blades were always in short supply. So they would call in the calibraion guys. After about the third calibration it would somehow pass. If you tweek enough parameters in the right direction, you can get the numbers you want.
Nothing to do with oil but a cute story. I see nothing achieved from using anything more than my 4K $6.50 Walmart oil and filter changes.
Would you care to publish the name of this repair station? I believe a few of my co-workers would like to pay you a visit.
We are here to HELP you!!
1. I do run synth. and it comes out black after 5000kms (3125 miles).
2. The filter is always Delco.
3. But I DON'T baby my car.
The engine has 78000 miles on it, and a few bolt on's. Does anybody have some insight into why the oil comes out this way?
Thanks
Black means or shows that your oil is doing the job for which it was formulated.
When you say a few mods are they mods that can affect or effect the oil?
The mod's to the engine that may affect the oil would be a short ram intake with a K&N off of a 5.0L Mustang. My car is a Z24 Cavalier
Is there a place in Canada that does oil / filter analyzed?
Imagine you have to clean a wall with a water hose. The wall is next to a machine that is constantly throwing dirt on the wall.
In addition, the water coming through the hose is dirty. There is a filter that cleans the water as it comes out the hose.
Which would allow you to keep the wall cleaner? A filter that took a higher percentage of the dirt out of the water, but flowed less water overall, or;
a filter which took out less dirt from the water but flowed a stronger stream of water.
This is not a perfect example but it is an example of why I think there is more to a filter than just its filtration level.
Also, imagine that the purpose was not just to keep the wall clean, but to also cool the wall (cooling is also one of the functions of engine oil). Then the high flowing filter would have even more of an a chance of being the more effective design.
Examples: I use Mobil 1 filters on some of my cars, but in the back of my mind I always wonder if it's money wasted because so many others can point to great engine life with a history of using Frams. I've also run a few oil analysis too. Fortunately in my case, the single digit wear numbers are so low I don't see how a higher flow filter can improve the results any. And yes, I've read Bobistheoilguy's little mobil vs fram test.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;- f=3;t=000211
It describes just how important clean oil is. Extending engine life 8-10 times is tremendous. It means that I wouldn't ever have to think about having to replace an engine. It makes me wonder what the real results will be with mobil1.
Well surely the experimental design can introduce some doubt and call into question the confidence levels for sure. But certainly, there is something to be gleened from this effort.
So assume that the raw numbers are correct, i.e. unfaked etc. Lets take it from there.
#2228
If I understand the gist of what your above article says. I think it makes a serious case for bypass filtering and pre oilers. Not to mention synthetic oil!!
http://www.carjunky.com/news/motor_oil/mom7.shtml
americanflag: Look under the "What About Oil Starvation?" section to see this
"This is also how high efficiency oil filters work. Instead of trapping all of the oil contaminants on the surface of a paper (cellulose) type filtration media, high efficiency oil filters have a depth type media which will trap contaminants throughout the entire filtration media. This, combined with the different type of materials used for the filtration media allows high efficiency oil filters to remove more and smaller particles without restricting oil flow - just as high efficiency foam air filters remove more and smaller particles without restricting air flow."
By the way, not to rain on the parade, but the air filter is probably much more important than the oil filter. Just please don't start bashing the K&N, it is the best filter made. There is just a lot of superstition out there about it.
Just use the OEM paper airfilter.