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diesel 3.0 V6 that VW is planning to offer to the
German public supposedly in November.
Why doesn't VW bring this car to the US in the
short wheelbase model? It would seem to me to be
a good "fit" between the Passat and the current
Phaeton imports, especially in the short wheelbase
form that I understand is sold in Europe. The
timing would seem to be excellent. This article
can be accessed at www.Germancarfans.com.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&cate- gory=6060&item=2488190196&rd=1
Jeremy
Obviously a typo, or a prank...
The sales of this vehicle are abysmal and it is pretty much doomed at this point. As I was arguing in the beginning of this topic, VW has created a monumental blunder.
It is irrelevant how good this car is. Why? People in the Phaeton niche sector are looking for prestige and that is the bottom line. They are not the type of people who would buy a vehicle for $80,000 from a VW dealer. What if Hyundai comes up with a $50,000 car? Ridiculous? Absolutely. I think the resale value of Phaeton will be very low, especially compared with competition. By the way, this car is rated dead last by Car & Driver in comparison tests (mostly for poor ride).
IMHO
The car may well fail -- but IMHO if it fails, it will do so for the same reason the VW W8 Passat has apparently been a dud -- no one knows the darn thing even exists!
Ditto my allroad, although it, somehow has had only a fair run, not a poor run like the W8 and the Phaeton, thus far.
Since I lease and since I would lease one of these from VW credit, I can tell you the deals here in Cincinnati are eye popping on Phaetons. They're giving them away, from a mo payment perspective.
More's the pity.
I blame "marketing and advertising" in large measure for this revolting development.
And, Mark, you are certainly correct here...Look for much more Advertising and Marketing during the remainder of Q3 and into Q4...
My guess is the only people the latest ad will bring in are VW loyalists. Once they see what the car costs, they'll have sticker shock.
There are very few Arnold commercials that have been home runs...The New(A4 Platform)Jetta Commercial filmed in New Orleans 5 years ago, and most of the New Beetle spots..."Round for a Reason" among others...
I have been less than politically correct many times before; so when I say that we need to inject a major dose of testosterone into our ads,
it is something that I have said many times before and not quietly...
I like the new PHAETON "Warp Speed" for a couple of reasons...First, it reaches outside of the normal demographic...very important in my opinion. Next.. a Father & Son, I like that as well. Some features and then whooooosh...Warp Speed...There is certainly more that can be done,
but a quantum leap from the crap they put together for the W8...
Agreed.
Though an R40 version of the W8 might have been enough to sway me - without a commercial of any kind.
- Ray
Knowing THAT ain't gonna happen . . .
well,yes.
why.
wrong price point for a vw.
car is heavy.
car is very very heavy.
car is difficult to turn at speed........regardless of what you read on the test.
it oversteers and it is difficult to hold the intended line at speed.
but,car is great for straight ahead driving at high speeds.............just do not turn.
i have been posting and knew that prices had to come down.and now that they have i thought why not?
i do a lot of travel between fla. where i live and conn. where my daughter and grandkids are.would be a great car for this.
but ,next hurdle...........the idiotic dealers down here....i cannot trust them.and this is in the sales dept.
in the service dept ???/
well,i checked other vw owners..........
they hate the experience..........
another problem----steep depreciation--this one does not bother me because i keep my cars well over 230,000 miles....but this introduces a new problem............
service ,breakdown,and costs of repair this overly complex,heavy car or sis it a truck.
anyhow,
now that prices are good,the other items listed above have made me reconsider........
by the way,i drove the new BENTLEY CONTINENTAL ,and had a blast.
if you go take a look at it,(made by vw with vw parts)
you will recognize many parts in the phaeton are in this car including the steering wheel and the rear arm rests and other.
great car............this may be what i need for my trips.
taking it for 2 days next week to see.
Make sure that you get one with the upgraded sound system.
And, this circumstance is somewhat mitigated by inflating the front tires higher than the rear tires.
Finally, although you are correct if you meant understeer, not oversteer, the Phaeton is hardly "horrible" in this regard unless you are comparing it to some well balanced rear wheel drive cars that, at this moment, will certainly cost a lot more than the Phaeton and will not have the Phaeton's edge in the winter.
With respect to long term -- well, I certainly would go for the maximum extended warranty you can buy (100,000 miles, I assume). And, know, that any European car will be very expensive to repair 100,000 miles from now.
The Phaeton, at this point, seems to be "cheap" -- especially if you are leasing. But at 230,000 miles you certainly are not a good candidate for a lease.
When I see these things in the paper at a lease number that begins with a "5" I know things are not going well in VW - ville for this product.
But, the thing is, the car is a total unknown.
Remember when Lexus first came out -- people did claim "no one will buy a Toyota at this price point." Unlike Lexus, which chose to have stand alone dealers, VW has marketed the Phaeton right next to a golf and a jetta -- this should NOT be a problem. But it is for a whole host of reasons, not the least of which is the virtual complete lack of an image campaign. Moreover, the dealer body reputation is, by all accounts, merely "fair" and that is being charitable (see the saga on the Passat town hall about the engine replacement).
Audi to some is still a VW that knows somebody. But, here in River City (Cincinnati) the dealer image at our 2 Audi dealers is undergoing a major makeover ($6,000,000 face lifts!).
Simultaneously, several of the VW dealers appear to be doing the same thing -- but this shift in image will take time and for the time being I am reminded that "perception is reality!"
So, what do yo do?
Buy the cheap Phaeton and love it -- it is a bargain. The worst that will happen is the thing will be worthless from a trade in standpoint not too long in the future. That is why I would at least consider a lease -- they (VW) will insure YOU against a fall in resale value.
If I had the money that VW probably has to blow on marketing, I would hire the company that did the Lexus roll out years ago and just say "make it like that." Of course, I just can't see a lot of VW dealers willing to put out "AUDI" money for a new dealership -- and make no mistake about it, the dealers have to cough up the dough for the new corporate look and the substance to provide the service behind the facade.
Maybe VW needs to talk to the folks at VWGUILD's company about how to pull this off.
What a world, what a world.
Let me assure you that with each passing day, you will enjoy your PHAETON more & more...
When this young man is sitting back in the seat the belt seems to be at a rather normal 45 degree
angle...And, in the event of an accident, that is exactly where he would be; pre-tensioning retractors are standard on all VWs...
And this reference to the Carotid Artery...what is that? All arteries, as opposed to veins, are rather deep within the body...the only exception being the popliteal, which is right behind the knee...
Your point is???
As to the carotid artery, seat belts, if not adjusted for height correctly, are known to cause dissections of the carotid artery in traffic accidents, as the passenger could receive the majority of decelerative force on his neck by the restraining belt.
Hope to have made my point a little clearer.
Back on point...I just hope that Q4 brings more Advertising & Marketing for the PHAETON...
Back to the regular program.
Just received a Phaeton that was ordered in April. I requested the 4-seat option which is produced in lower quantities, so I had to wait. As it turns out, that pushed my car into the 2005 group, so the wait was probably a good thing. I like the new wheel design.
To respond to an earlier question regarding leases. VW owns their own leasing company. One way to discount the cost of the car without lowering the purchase price is to give you credit for a high trade-in value when calculating the lease cost. Even if the interest rates are at market levels, if they allow a 60% trade-in value after 3 years, or 52% trade-in value after 4 years, they are probably allowing more than the actual market will pay down the road. Third-party leasing companies were quoting me residual values more than 10% less.
My reason for posting is actually to address the comments regarding the target customer and VW strategy, which seems to be a divided subject on this forum. I am not qualified to critique the VW strategy, but I can post my "profile" and reasons for buying the car.
I have driven Mercedes S-Class and SELs for 23 years now. When I was younger, the image was fun, but as I age (47 at the moment), the image becames less fun. Mercedes engineering also changed. They stopped making rebuild kits, and started carrying replacement modules. More efficient for them. More expensive for me. The frequency of repair was the real problem. Other cars may be experiencing the same issues for all I know, but my attitude about Mercedes went from respect to indifference. I was willing to pay for higher quality, but I was only getting average quality. I realize that repair costs can be avoided by turning in a car at the end of a warrantee period, on any brand car, but for me the damage is done.
In my opinion, because the prestige of the badge is of less value, VW offers a better car for a better price. For me, the separated big back seats are a huge plus. I like the light steering response. For others, Mercedes' heavier steering is more comfortable. For others, BMW's tighter suspension is a priority. For others, Audi's A8L retractable command center screen is refreshing. I personally like the Phaeton, I like the design, I like the VW image.
The dealer experience was also night and day. The VW dealer was happy to let my teenage son test drive the cars with me. My Mercedes dealer was worried my son would smudge the paint on the showroom car, and made a point of criticizing the competition.
One of my buddies said that with the VW badge and relative obscurity of the new car, no one would recognize that I am driving a luxury car. Great. I will know. In fact, obscurity would be a bonus. He turned out to be wrong, however, this car is attracting more attention that I suspected - maybe just a new thing. I have met several other Pheaton owners through this process of buying a car. Every one is an ex-Mercedes, BMW, Lexus owner. The first-time luxury car buyer is apparently not buying a Pheaton locally. Oh well.
This is a very fun car.
P.S. Great decision on your Phaeton!!
The friend eventually bought a Mercedes.
Being treated right by the dealer makes a big difference. My father, who is retired, still can't understand why car salesman 40 years his junior insist on calling him by his first name (or buddy etc.) like they are old friends. Mr. _______ goes a long way for some people.
I finished the "dealing" on my Phaeton having just come from the gym; perhaps not the typical appearance of a Phaeton buyer! However, in 2004, I think that the dealers know not to "judge a book by its cover" and treat everyone with respect.
I've been impressed recently in my car buying purchases, as the majority of salespeople know something about the vehicles. I have had the experience in the past of knowing way more about the nuts and bolts of a car than the salesperson; recently that's not been the case.
I was told during the sales process that when I took a Phaeton in for repair I would drive away in another Phaeton while repairs were being made. If none were available, they would send me out with a Touareg.
Is this a dealer offer, or a VW policy in general? My car is in for repair today (and yesterday). I am driving the old Benz that I thought was retiring. I chose that option over being driven to the nearest Enterprise car rental location. I haven't asked the dealer for an explanation yet.
i am very disappointed in the fact that i cant seem to get any accessories on this car i mean when do they want me to buy it when i have a year left on my lease? vwguild2 maybe you can help me out here i am looking for accessories for the phaeton the VW web site says nada check back again later 877 phaeton says we will keep you posted bottom line is the phaeton is out almost a year and no avail, accessories yet,,,
also if anyone knows how i can see a picture of the 2005 phaeton which i heard has a different grille please post a link ...
GO PHAETON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thanx
Hmmm, possible sale, possible false alarm. Imagine the carrying cost on this thing. . . .
I agree.
The pity is that VW chose or was financially unwilling or unable to market the Phaeton. Both the Phaeton and the Touaregs here in River City have serious discounts off MSRP and yet they still move at the speed of chrome rusting.
The Phaeton and the W8 Passat were, IMHO, value propositions -- relatively speaking, bargains. The V10 diesel Touareg, not so much, again IMO.
The Phaeton has been orphaned either by VW or by the dealer community here in SW Ohio. Only the odd "Phaeton" for $599/mo ad (10,000 miles per year and a medium sized cap cost reduction from the customer and a large cap cost reduction one presumes from VW or VW+dealer make this happen).
These ads don't do much to promote the car, but to the informed must certainly scream BARGAIN. But, there's the rub -- few are informed about this car via the tried and true method of repeating and repeating a theme in print, radio and TV campaigns.
I am pleased that VW produced the Phaeton and am cheering it and its successors on -- I am frustrated that VW seems (almost) to be letting it die on the vine.
PS: Drive them both for an extended time before you decide.
Car with the Audi 4.2 engine and 6 speed tip is a jewel from where I sit.
It is BIG, way bigger than an RL.
The warranty and service program will protect thee -- get a 39 or less month lease and love it to death or 50,000 miles whichever comes first.
If it is of high quality, re up the VW warranty at 49,999 miles to 100,000 miles and keep on smiling.
The nav system on the Acura is a 10, on the VW it will be a 7 or an 8 at best. But, guess what, it works and with the newest map, you will hardly think you've been short changed.