I don't know what kind or size of powerplant the Scion has, but the Honda Element uses the (useful) 2.4L engine from the CRV, as well as the CRV RT-4WD (or FWD).
Thanks Edmunds! Now I can share! I learned a new noun today. It's thank-you-ma'am. It refers to those "bumps in the road" that we often come upon. I've tried (successfully) to use it today three times. It's kind of fun. Like - "I was having a great day. I did have to deal with a challenging thank-you-ma'am"
Bob: I bet the Scions get the 1.5l from the Echo. I really don't see how dorky, tiny cars like the Echo are going to make a big impact in the US. Young buyers are going to be more into Matrices than Scions, IMO.
The ccX has a saggy rear, while the Matrix looks like it's had a major face lift, looking much younger, more aggressive. ccX had better be cheap.
Bob: did you see that the Element has a rubber floor? I wonder if you could hose it out? That would be hilarious. You'll recall that was one thing I asked for in Future Models a while back.
Most interesting (to me) are the updated Mitsubishi Montero, with a more powerful 3.8L engine, tweaked styling, and larger/wider tires (wonder if they addressed the handling issue?); and the Outlander, another new competitor for the Forester...
Juice, yes, I did notice the rubber floor mat of the Element. And—still no word from Subaru...
You're right, paisan. Put clear lens tail lights, body effects/spoilers, factory window tint, stuff like that. Go after the Civic market.
Civic sells to 34 year old buyers (median age - *). Corolla buyers are 42! That's middle aged, for a compact!
No wonder Toyota is worried about it. A 25 year old isn't going to buy a middle-aged person's car.
Hmm, the Monty gets active traction control, but they didn't mention stability control. That would be a good idea, to quell the fears (true or not, it hurts sales). I've always liked the muscular curves. The face-lift looks a little worse, IMO.
Outlander? Half Outback, Half Highlander? That name is blatant plaigarism. Brother.
Cute, though. But just 140 hp? That'll be a slug with AWD. Seems like more of a Matrix AWD competitor than anything.
Too curvy IMHO. I kind think of the new monty like the new impreza. Give me the old skins with the new underpinnings/engine. My favorite monty was the last year or 2 of the previous generation. with the nice flared fenders in gun-metal color.
The fenders are curvy, but the main body is boxy and tall. I think stability control would go a long way. Sales are very poor right now.
At least the Outlander will be made in Japan. Lots of Mitsus have become Chrylser clones, and quality has taken a nose dive. I recall the Galant was the #1 most reliable sedan a few years back, now it's near the bottom.
The current Monty uses 16" wheels, with 70 section tires. The wheels in the picture appear to be more than 1" larger than 16." In any case, the tires are much wider, and I would also assume the wheels are much wider. Those changes alone might be enough to counter any handling problems. I wonder if CR will re-test the new vehicle?
they could bump the tires up to like 275-70-16 That is what I run on the Trooper now and it is a bit more stable than it was before. Once I get my front torsion bars replaced with heavier duty ones it will have even less body roll.
They should. I usually defend them, but they should have re-tested the Trooper, and should take another look at the Montero, too. Both are reliable so even an average review would earn them a recommended rating.
Read some text on the Nissan Murano. That thing will get more than 240hp! AWD, 7 step CVT, and 18" rims. Now there's a contender.
The Outlander is just a "me-too" entry. Murano should offer some spunk, and a cure for the Altima's torque steer with its AWD. I hope they also fix the too-light steering of the Altima, and the notchy shifter (if they even offer a manual).
I wonder what it'll cost, though. $30 grand is too much if it has the same interior as the Altima. At $25 grand it would be a bargain.
That isn't much of a picture. Any others out there? From that angle you can't even get an idea of the basic shape. I wonder if it'll be boxy and roomy inside.
Anyone get their recent CR issue? There's a small SUV comparison of the CR-V, VUE and Liberty in there.
Despite the improvements in the CR-V, they still complain about it's road noise *and* the Forester is still their top pick! :-) In fact, the CR-V is 4th on their list after the Forester, RAV and Santa Fe.
On the subject of the Pilot. Much of Honda of late has been too much into family resemblence. The Pilot is an example. I don't dislike it and it should be a really fine ride. After all if it is a less expensive version of the MDX how can you lose? So it makes sense to let the more dynamic style stay with the MDX. It should sell very well. Price point is excellent for that class and the Highlander will get some very tough competion.
Murano. Well it is not quite the concept car but that would have been hard ot pull off. Thank heavens that Nissan has gone from the most boring japanese company to one of the boldest. It honestly reminds me of the Porsche Cayenne. I think it is safe to say that it will be more into performance and luxury than off road capability. I think it too will do well and I see it as a real threat to the MDX and RX 300 in terms of its mid luxury status. However it has in its styling an appeal for those who really want to be noticed. Don't care for the chrome grill but other than that it is very nice. Mechanically it sounds great. Note that they call their stability system VDC?
Honda element. Gotta love Honda for giving us the Model X just as I remember it. Very daring. I hated the styling then and I do now, but I love Honda for doing it. What I do love about it is the concept. Guess the styling helps the engineering here. Can you imagine what you can cram into that box? The suicide doors and the folding seats will make loading this thing state of the art. This is the lifestyle vehicle to the max. Practical beyond belief and price at 16 to 21 k will keep it in very short supply. TWRX
I agree with most of what you say. The only thing I disagree on is: I DO like the styling of the Honda Element. I see it as being "pure" and to the point. It makes no pretension of being sleek or streamlined. It is exactly what it is, and nothing more; anything less would be dishonest and phony.
It also reminds me of the wooden block cars you may have had when you were a toddler.
People who think of "sleek and streamlined" as the only school of acceptable design, won't understand or appreciate this car's looks.
You'll probably think I'm nuts, but I think some of the best designed vehicles out there are farm tractors. I feel the same about ATVs too. The design is pure and to the point. Everything is there for a reason. They're not "styled," but "designed." There is a difference...
I subscribe to the old "Form follows Function" theory. It should be designed to make it function better, not look better.
Wasn't that DN-X just like the Honda Dual Note concept?
Ken: cool. Was the RAV4 ahead of the Forester? The scores look tied, so I'm wondering if they changed the order.
twrx: yeah, the G35's stability control system is also called VDC. Guess Subaru didn't register the trade mark. Murano does look solid, and I bet it's $30 grand tops. The Cayenne is more than double that cost.
Lego, LOL! I can appreciate what it is. At least it is distinctive in a functional way. The Aztec was (ugly as sin) distinctive, but in a non-functional way, deleting the 3rd row from the platform it was based on.
Interesting that Honda won't try to be a full-line manufacturer like Toyota has become.
Pacifica ought to be popular. It's basically a 300M wagon with 3 rows of seats. Odd that it only seats 6, though. The Pilot will seat 8.
If the Pilot LX is $26k, the EX will be $28.5k, and an EX with leather would be $30k. Problem is, tack on $775 for a 7/100 warranty, and add MD tax, and you're really pushing it. Plus another $500 for the tow package in my case.
I disagree with most of the text (Mazda 6 is gorgeous, what is he talking about?), and wouldn't trust the source, but at least there is a nice collection of photos.
The Murano isn't boxy enough. It looks small. If the price is really $30-35k it'll be eaten alive by the much bigger Pilot.
Bob I see where you are coming from with the "pure" styling. Not quite my cup of tea but I also love the fact that what you saw last year is what we are getting. I do love the interior styling. Beyond the obvious flexiblity there have got to be so many trick features in there you'd probably lose count. (It's a Honda--remember the CRV picnic table.) I don't see replacing the WRX wagon anytime soon but of the three SUV's I mentioned it is the one I would pick. 1. it has a 5 speed. 2. It is way clever. 3. no doubt the most efficient 4. cult car! 5. WOW, the price!
Anyone see that Honda finally has the specs on the new Civic Hybrid. I wonder about the price. Features like auto climate control sound like its features list is lock step with Toyota's Prius. Right now the Prius and the Insight are the same price but of course the Prius is more practical. Wonder how much Honda can afford to price the Civic above the Insight? I would really like to see the Subaru hybrid change from concept to reality. Can you imagine the "beauty of all wheel drive" at 50 mpg +? TWRX
Bob: yep, but had we seen photos yet? At least not those.
Element just needs to seat 5, that's all that's missing that is significant.
twrx: $20 grand for the Civic hybrid. There are a few options, but not many. Still, one mag calculated it would take 10 years of driving for the fuel savings to make up for the price difference.
But I like the range it offers - that's what's truly useful.
and just waded thru them in one sitting. Still enjoying Williamsburg, and taking the family to Bush Gardens in the morning. Does anyone remember who posted photos of driving thru Colonial Wb in the snow??
I still plan on going to the NY Auto Show maybe Wednesday or Thursday.
Comments
I wonder what that means?
Bob
lark: no way, no how. If you hadn't responded I would have assumed you were out sick or something. ;-)
Bob: that means BOTH Outback sedan owners aren't as talkative as we are! LOL
-juice
Bob
Bob
http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_036529
http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_036528
http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_036527
http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_036526
Bob
The Scion bbX (bulletin board crossover?) looks a lot smaller, with 4 conventional doors.
Compare the two, and I see people buying many more Model Xs, due to the more useful size and the stand-out features.
-juice
Bob
Oh well - it was fun to watch people react to it!
Patti
The ccX has a saggy rear, while the Matrix looks like it's had a major face lift, looking much younger, more aggressive. ccX had better be cheap.
Bob: did you see that the Element has a rubber floor? I wonder if you could hose it out? That would be hilarious. You'll recall that was one thing I asked for in Future Models a while back.
-juice
-mike
Most interesting (to me) are the updated Mitsubishi Montero, with a more powerful 3.8L engine, tweaked styling, and larger/wider tires (wonder if they addressed the handling issue?); and the Outlander, another new competitor for the Forester...
Juice, yes, I did notice the rubber floor mat of the Element. And—still no word from Subaru...
Bob
Civic sells to 34 year old buyers (median age - *). Corolla buyers are 42! That's middle aged, for a compact!
No wonder Toyota is worried about it. A 25 year old isn't going to buy a middle-aged person's car.
Hmm, the Monty gets active traction control, but they didn't mention stability control. That would be a good idea, to quell the fears (true or not, it hurts sales). I've always liked the muscular curves. The face-lift looks a little worse, IMO.
Outlander? Half Outback, Half Highlander? That name is blatant plaigarism. Brother.
Cute, though. But just 140 hp? That'll be a slug with AWD. Seems like more of a Matrix AWD competitor than anything.
-juice
* source: AutoPacific (via KBB.com)
-mike
At least the Outlander will be made in Japan. Lots of Mitsus have become Chrylser clones, and quality has taken a nose dive. I recall the Galant was the #1 most reliable sedan a few years back, now it's near the bottom.
-juice
-mike
Bob
-mike
Bob
-juice
they could bump the tires up to like 275-70-16 That is what I run on the Trooper now and it is a bit more stable than it was before. Once I get my front torsion bars replaced with heavier duty ones it will have even less body roll.
-mike
Read some text on the Nissan Murano. That thing will get more than 240hp! AWD, 7 step CVT, and 18" rims. Now there's a contender.
The Outlander is just a "me-too" entry. Murano should offer some spunk, and a cure for the Altima's torque steer with its AWD. I hope they also fix the too-light steering of the Altima, and the notchy shifter (if they even offer a manual).
I wonder what it'll cost, though. $30 grand is too much if it has the same interior as the Altima. At $25 grand it would be a bargain.
-juice
Bob
http://TheCarConnection.com/index.asp?article=4766&sid=176&n=156
-juice
Bob
http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_036577
http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_036581
http://www.wieck.com/public/*2PV_036583
More photos can be found here:
http://www.wieck.com/public/index.html
Despite the improvements in the CR-V, they still complain about it's road noise *and* the Forester is still their top pick! :-) In fact, the CR-V is 4th on their list after the Forester, RAV and Santa Fe.
Ken
Murano. Well it is not quite the concept car but that would have been hard ot pull off. Thank heavens that Nissan has gone from the most boring japanese company to one of the boldest. It honestly reminds me of the Porsche Cayenne. I think it is safe to say that it will be more into performance and luxury than off road capability. I think it too will do well and I see it as a real threat to the MDX and RX 300 in terms of its mid luxury status. However it has in its styling an appeal for those who really want to be noticed. Don't care for the chrome grill but other than that it is very nice. Mechanically it sounds great. Note that they call their stability system VDC?
Honda element. Gotta love Honda for giving us the Model X just as I remember it. Very daring. I hated the styling then and I do now, but I love Honda for doing it. What I do love about it is the concept. Guess the styling helps the engineering here. Can you imagine what you can cram into that box? The suicide doors and the folding seats will make loading this thing state of the art. This is the lifestyle vehicle to the max. Practical beyond belief and price at 16 to 21 k will keep it in very short supply. TWRX
Bob
Ross
People who think of "sleek and streamlined" as the only school of acceptable design, won't understand or appreciate this car's looks.
You'll probably think I'm nuts, but I think some of the best designed vehicles out there are farm tractors. I feel the same about ATVs too. The design is pure and to the point. Everything is there for a reason. They're not "styled," but "designed." There is a difference...
I subscribe to the old "Form follows Function" theory. It should be designed to make it function better, not look better.
Bob
-mike
Ken: cool. Was the RAV4 ahead of the Forester? The scores look tied, so I'm wondering if they changed the order.
twrx: yeah, the G35's stability control system is also called VDC. Guess Subaru didn't register the trade mark. Murano does look solid, and I bet it's $30 grand tops. The Cayenne is more than double that cost.
Lego, LOL! I can appreciate what it is. At least it is distinctive in a functional way. The Aztec was (ugly as sin) distinctive, but in a non-functional way, deleting the 3rd row from the platform it was based on.
-juice
http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=04834493
Pacifica a year away
http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=04852681<
Pilot will stat at $26K (in theory, at least...)
http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=05209303
Bob
Pacifica ought to be popular. It's basically a 300M wagon with 3 rows of seats. Odd that it only seats 6, though. The Pilot will seat 8.
If the Pilot LX is $26k, the EX will be $28.5k, and an EX with leather would be $30k. Problem is, tack on $775 for a 7/100 warranty, and add MD tax, and you're really pushing it. Plus another $500 for the tow package in my case.
That's $32,800. No can do.
-juice
http://www.thehollywoodextra.com/cars/cars.html
I disagree with most of the text (Mazda 6 is gorgeous, what is he talking about?), and wouldn't trust the source, but at least there is a nice collection of photos.
The Murano isn't boxy enough. It looks small. If the price is really $30-35k it'll be eaten alive by the much bigger Pilot.
Bob: check out the Malibu, too.
-juice
The Murano is also a real looker. Nissan sure is on a roll theses days... Who'd a thunk it a few years ago?!
I posted this site about a year ago, and I remember a lot of the Crew thought these were phony images.
Bob
Bruce (TWRX)
TWRX
Ken
Element just needs to seat 5, that's all that's missing that is significant.
twrx: $20 grand for the Civic hybrid. There are a few options, but not many. Still, one mag calculated it would take 10 years of driving for the fuel savings to make up for the price difference.
But I like the range it offers - that's what's truly useful.
GTO a go-go. Lutz is the man.
-juice
Questions questions
TWRX
I still plan on going to the NY Auto Show maybe Wednesday or Thursday.
Steve
not so much about the plate, just what it's on.
Ford Taurus Wagon
-Dave
Bob
http://www.autosupermart.com/ny/nyautoshow/
Bob