I'm asking for an electronic diagnosis - always tricky. My 1999 Forester S (66,000 miles) has been having trouble starting up on these very cold mornings in the Northeast. Two days ago, after starting and stalling multiple times, the CEL came on, flashed for a few seconds and went out. Now the car (when it starts), is running really rough - idles down to almost to zero when stopped or stopping (low RPMs) - as if it's about stall, sputters and shudders with pops from the exhaust when you give it gas.
We brought it to a local repair shop which said it produced the code for a bad "idle air valve" (I'm not sure what this is). The dealer has replaced the MAF sensor twice - once at 33,000 miles and again October 2002 (55K miles) under the recall. Any thoughts? What's a idle air (control?) valve and, if bad, would it explain the symptoms? Also, is it possible that a weak/dead battery could cause the computer to generate a false code and kill a fuel injector?
Take a deep breath. A lemon fails 3 times for the same problem in a single year or 12k miles, whichever comes first. So it's not a lemon.
The stumbling could be condensation from the gas tank, something as simple as that.
First, I'd reset the ECU by disconnecting the negative battery terminal. Give it a fresh start. Wait 20 minutes, then reconnect, start her up and let her idle.
Your first tank will get poor mileage, but it'll lean out the fuel mixture and should return to normal after that.
Another thing, when starting, is to always let the fuel pump prime before you start. Turn the key to the On position, but don't start it. Listen for the "whirr" sound the fuel pump makes. Then start it. It should be smoother.
The OE battery isn't very strong, so yeah, actually, an aftermarket battery with more CCAs will help if you have rough starting. It may be an early sign that your battery is beginning to fail. I'd change it pro-actively. Yours has already lasted more than mine (I have a '98 and the battery failed 2 years ago).
Good luck and stick with us, we'll provide tips to keep it running smoothly.
Forgot to mention, I'd never topped off the battery. Check the levels, at least, and add distilled water (not tap water). Of course at this point I'd just swap it.
Perhaps it is bad gas? If you want, stop by our place on saturday and we can take a look. There should be a bunch of subaru gurus hanging around. Shoot me an e-mail for direx.
My 2000 outback wagon (72k) has had some trouble starting in recent very cold weather. The engine will turn over, run for a couple seconds, then stall out. Finally starts only when you touch the gas. Then still runs rough first few minutes and may stall when put in gear.
Thanks for the tips and suggestions. While I fully understand that lemon is a legal term, this Sube is sure leaving a sour taste in my mouth. The list of repairs - most of them major including replacing the cylinder heads and ultimately the engine short block, the clutch assembly (3x), the brakes/rotors (2x), the MAF (2x), the rear window, etc. - is quite long. However, this is my first problem "off-warranty."
I'll take your advice about resetting the ECU and probably getting a new battery. My wife drove the car to work today - fine on the highway, but stalled twice at a light - so the idle control might actually be the problem. Also, most of the problems did start after getting a tank of gas last week from somewhere new. It was premium 92, though.
Any idea or ballpark cost of replacing the said malfunctioning idle air control valve - if that is indeed the problem?
At 72k miles I would look at the basics - weak spark or poor fuel mixing at cold temperatures.
Weak spark - have you changes plugs, wires or even the ignition coil?
Fuel mix - start with the basics - a large bottle of Chevron Tektron fuel system cleaner. This will help unplug dirty injectors (poor spray pattern / atomization) and remove deposits on the neck of intake valves that can interfere with pattern & mixing.
Two things I'd suggest are DryGas (condensation in the gas tank?) and priming the fuel pump. Turn the key to the On position, but let the fuel pump go "whirr" before you start it.
I *think* it might live under the floating intake manifold on the EJ series engine, but don't take my word for it. And I have no idea how much it would cost to replace it...
The outside thermometer on my 2001 OB (48k miles) only reads -20F this morning. When it was in the Garage (not heated but inclosed) it read -1. I don't think eaven Patti can help.
Yes there is a bit of a chill this morning. We like to think it builds character.
The warmest its been is -5 the past 3 days.
Subie is starting fairly well. Makes noise, timing belt? piston slap? other? Still much quieter than a VW TDI that was next to me.
--Jay
In sunny but cool Minneapolis. Current temp -26F. Wind Chill about -50F.
and leave it overnight. Rod knock, piston slap? Sounds like a diesel on startup, and the sound is still evident for several minutes after fully warmed up.
Just a guess, but its not as loud as a diesel. Yesterday leaving work, in my subie wondering whats making the noise, I hear the noise get louder and more clanky.... a diesel Jetta pulled up behind me at the stop light...... and I thought my subie was noisy...
I got a new Forester XS today What are the important mileage milestones for scheduled maintenance? What needs to be done? I heard that it is bad to drive any new car with less than 500 miles on a long trip, that you shouldn't drive at a steady speed while new? True or not? Thanks
hatesthevalley, you should be fine going on a long trip, and will actually get to the time you can really use your new car faster. Your owners manual should have something in it.
For my WRX, the break-in period was the first 1,000 miles, and I tried to keep it below 4000 rpms, never cruised for long at a constant speed, and overall took it easy on the engine (no heavy load launches, etc.)
hatesthevalley- What an interesting screen name. These is some debate as to whether today's new cars still require a break-in period but the standard party line is as Paul stated above (1k miles and below 4k rpm). The trip caution fall in to the same category so if you want to play it safe, take the trip but avoid using the cruise control for extended periods and try to vary your speed. Taking the scenic route on two-lane back roads is often a good choice since it provides a decent break-in environment (constantly changing rpms) and allows you the opportunity to become familiar with how your new Forester handles.
In any case, congratulations on your new ride and feel free to join us in the Forester discussion where you'll learn more than you ever thought possible about your Forester.
The Sales Facilitator where I got my XT really stressed the 1000 miles/less than 4K rpm/ vary the speed break-in triad. My cousin just bought an Audi A4 and his salesguy specifically said no break-in needed - those days are gone. Do Subaru Autobahn drivers follow our prescribed routine?
I got the bulbs at Advanced Auto Parts . They had a special on them . I them in a 2 pak for 29.99 .Sylvania just started making the H1 silver star bulb about 3 months ago .
I check 1stsubaruparts.com for both mechanical and accessory parts. It gives you an idea of the going internet price. (They are a dealer in Washington state and accepted my SubaruBucks.) My local dealer is about 25% higher.
Squealing alternator - it could be just the belt needing adjustment/replacement.
Thanks Jim for that site--It's really helpful compared to the alternative--buy OEM's from the dealer that I have to drive 1 hour to on a weekday and pay more for.
As for the alternator, I hope it's just the belt, but I recently checked the tension and it's OK. I'm going to buy a stethoscope tonight to see if I can locate the source of the noise.
Welcome aboard ! Break-in: I have a XT with auto --had it about one wk (200 miles) and left on a 1350 trip.Held it down to 60-65mph (and varied the mph) for the first 800-1000 mi. Then on the trip home let it go to 75mph most of the way home.All seems A-OK and MPG is improving with ea. tank A Great machine!!Have used passing gear about 2-3 times as--it is NOT required most of the time..Good Luck, Deadeye
My just bought Outback Limited sedan came with auto-dimming mirror that is not the same as the one in the manual with compass. I'd like to know if the original equipment has been altered, how can I find out? Has anyone else had a problem like this?
Most auto parts stores and some quickie lube places will take oil for recycling. I take mine to Checker (Kragen in other parts of the country). Synthetic oils are dumped in the same recycling storage containers as dino, so it will make no difference.
What does the mirror look like that's in your vehicle? There are two main manuf. of auto-dimming mirrors. Magna Donnelly is what Subaru uses and has the compass display below the mirror. Gentex is the other, that many GM vehicles have, with the compass display in a "cut out" area in the upper right corner of the mirror itself.
Does your vehicle have onstar? I'm not sure how Subaru incorporates onstar, but some manufacturers use a special rear view mirror.
I replaced my auto-dimming/compass mirror in my WRX with a similar one that also included an outside thermometer, so I did a lot of research into these before I purchased it. By the way, I still have my original mirror if anyone is interested.
You guys are life savers. My mechanic told me on Friday that the coolant smell I was occasionally getting was from a leaking head gasket on my 2000 Outback. He gave me an estimate of 1000+, but suggested that I check the warranty. (The car has 57500) I figured I may have to do battle with the dealer, when I happened upon this board this morning. Tomorrow, I call Subaru and the dealer and get the sealant. Thanks again Alon
all of the 98-04 2.5 liter Subies have BAD headgaskets and I doubt that STOP LEAK will do it. That would only work until the warrent is GONE. The dealer I am dealing with ADMITS the problems. He had 20 Subaru's in the shop this past Monday....all with blown headgaskets!!! That stop leak thing is just to save them a LOT of money. Good luck...but if you keep that car the headgaskets will blow sooner or later.
Comments
-juice
-Dennis
We brought it to a local repair shop which said it produced the code for a bad "idle air valve" (I'm not sure what this is). The dealer has replaced the MAF sensor twice - once at 33,000 miles and again October 2002 (55K miles) under the recall. Any thoughts? What's a idle air (control?) valve and, if bad, would it explain the symptoms? Also, is it possible that a weak/dead battery could cause the computer to generate a false code and kill a fuel injector?
Man, this car is a lemon!
The stumbling could be condensation from the gas tank, something as simple as that.
First, I'd reset the ECU by disconnecting the negative battery terminal. Give it a fresh start. Wait 20 minutes, then reconnect, start her up and let her idle.
Your first tank will get poor mileage, but it'll lean out the fuel mixture and should return to normal after that.
Another thing, when starting, is to always let the fuel pump prime before you start. Turn the key to the On position, but don't start it. Listen for the "whirr" sound the fuel pump makes. Then start it. It should be smoother.
The OE battery isn't very strong, so yeah, actually, an aftermarket battery with more CCAs will help if you have rough starting. It may be an early sign that your battery is beginning to fail. I'd change it pro-actively. Yours has already lasted more than mine (I have a '98 and the battery failed 2 years ago).
Good luck and stick with us, we'll provide tips to keep it running smoothly.
-juice
-juice
-mike
Thanks,
Greg
sounds pretty bad.
~c
Any idea of potential problem / solution?
Thanks for the tips and suggestions. While I fully understand that lemon is a legal term, this Sube is sure leaving a sour taste in my mouth. The list of repairs - most of them major including replacing the cylinder heads and ultimately the engine short block, the clutch assembly (3x), the brakes/rotors (2x), the MAF (2x), the rear window, etc. - is quite long. However, this is my first problem "off-warranty."
I'll take your advice about resetting the ECU and probably getting a new battery. My wife drove the car to work today - fine on the highway, but stalled twice at a light - so the idle control might actually be the problem. Also, most of the problems did start after getting a tank of gas last week from somewhere new. It was premium 92, though.
Any idea or ballpark cost of replacing the said malfunctioning idle air control valve - if that is indeed the problem?
Weak spark - have you changes plugs, wires or even the ignition coil?
Fuel mix - start with the basics - a large bottle of Chevron Tektron fuel system cleaner. This will help unplug dirty injectors (poor spray pattern / atomization) and remove deposits on the neck of intake valves that can interfere with pattern & mixing.
Steve
FWIW, I'm on my original brake pads. Zero out-of-pocket costs for 59k miles, too.
Not sure about the price, but check subaruparts.com for a wholesaler.
-juice
-juice
Craig
~c
Cheers Pat.
took a long time to get the wheels and some trim/moulding
~c
Cheers Pat.
I don't think eaven Patti can help.
Yes there is a bit of a chill this morning. We like to think it builds character.
The warmest its been is -5 the past 3 days.
Subie is starting fairly well. Makes noise, timing belt? piston slap? other? Still much quieter than a VW TDI that was next to me.
--Jay
In sunny but cool Minneapolis.
Current temp -26F. Wind Chill about -50F.
-les
Colorado is getting snow this weekend-can't wait to "let her out and run around alittle"
See you at Loveland on Sunday
Jon
Steve
--jay (wonderful high temp of -7F so far today!)
Patti
What are the important mileage milestones for scheduled maintenance? What needs to be done?
I heard that it is bad to drive any new car with less than 500 miles on a long trip, that you shouldn't drive at a steady speed while new?
True or not?
Thanks
For my WRX, the break-in period was the first 1,000 miles, and I tried to keep it below 4000 rpms, never cruised for long at a constant speed, and overall took it easy on the engine (no heavy load launches, etc.)
Enjoy your new ride!
Paul
In any case, congratulations on your new ride and feel free to join us in the Forester discussion where you'll learn more than you ever thought possible about your Forester.
-Frank P.
Eric
My cousin just bought an Audi A4 and his salesguy specifically said no break-in needed - those days are gone.
Do Subaru Autobahn drivers follow our prescribed routine?
Mike k
Squealing alternator - it could be just the belt needing adjustment/replacement.
Jim
I would suggest following the Subaru break-in guidelines as a minimum. I, erring on the side of caution, doubled my break-in period to 2,000 miles.
As for the alternator, I hope it's just the belt, but I recently checked the tension and it's OK. I'm going to buy a stethoscope tonight to see if I can locate the source of the noise.
Eric
Congratulations!
Patti
What color? Trans type? Options?
Join us in the Forester thread, which is usually quite active.
-juice
-Frank P.
-Ty
-Brian
Does your vehicle have onstar? I'm not sure how Subaru incorporates onstar, but some manufacturers use a special rear view mirror.
I replaced my auto-dimming/compass mirror in my WRX with a similar one that also included an outside thermometer, so I did a lot of research into these before I purchased it. By the way, I still have my original mirror if anyone is interested.
Take care,
Paul
Alon
Cheers Pat.
Steve, Host
-mike
Jim
is just to save them a LOT of money. Good luck...but if you
keep that car the headgaskets will blow sooner or later.
qcmaninalaska