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Welcome, Toyota Tundra



  • citroen7citroen7 Posts: 62
    23Hz is the frequency that the highy rigid architecture is tested to. Others will squeak and rattle and loosen up much sooner. Again this new GM truck is a much better engineer vehicle than the toy. GM does have 97 years experience. Toys are toys. Since their very beginnings and I go back to the 18RC engine, Hilux model, early 70s until the T100 owning 7), they have built them to last just about the same time the frame and bodies either rust or fall apart(70-100K). We have some huge dismantler yards here and I tell you they have dozens of toys crashed and with bad motors, (many burnt ones from poor electrical systems) and they only go back 7 model years and their crushed. All the GM improvements are to make the thing easy to work on and prevent repairs, i.e. message center that reports low oil, gas, oiltemp and oil pressure, etc, GM engineering spent many years on the R&D, the market being so competitive now. I just wish prospective toy buyers would be objective and drive all the trucks without the salesman, talk to owners of all the new trucks, and you will reach the same opinon I did. Buy a GMC and be happy.
  • volfyvolfy Posts: 274
    Hmm... my understanding of "tested to 23Hz" is that the cab frame structure by itself has a first natural resonance peak at 23Hz. While this IS impressive, I'm more impressed when it applies to a monocoque chassis where the increase bending & torsional rigidity translate into less suspension geometry distortion under load and thus better handling. The Audi A8 aluminum chassis is a prime example of this. As it applies to a pickup cab, the major benefits are limited to a quieter cab with less squeaks and rattles as you descirbed. Whether it contributes to a safer cab depends on the impact absorption design. The S-10/Sonoma is a good example of a design rigid in the wrong places, resulting in undesirable cab deformation upon impact.

    While I'm sure the Sierra/Silverado will fair better than the S-10/Sonoma, I see no evidence yet they necessarily perform better than the Tundra. We'll have to wait for independent safety institute test results to see. Personally, I have my concerns about the more-doors-the-better trend in pickups and minivans and the impact (pun intended) all these huge door openings have on chassis stiffness.

    In looking at the previous posts, I have not come across a single Tundra buyer that haven't test driven products from other manufacturers and gave them serious consideration. If there are narrow-mindedness in this forum, I sure don't see 'em on the side of the "Toy" drivers.
  • volfyvolfy Posts: 274
    To be fair, Toyota does enjoy a reputation of having excellent mechanicals that far outlast the body to which they are attached. That's the nice way of saying: if you live up north, your Toyota will probably rust out way before the engine&tranny quit. :-)

    Whether this is preferrable over a body that last through 3 major engine overhauls at 80,000 miles intervals is a personal call.

    With the increased use of double galvanized body panels, though, Toyota bodies are now more apt to hang in there with the mechanicals.
  • citroen7citroen7 Posts: 62
    Its been funny that when I bought each of my toyota trucks through the 70s, 80s and to my last 95 T100 the salesman would say this one has rust prevention the others lacked, and each and every one began to go in the same places along the seams on the box, hinges and bolts on the fenders (always washed my trucks religiously). All my trucks ran when I sold them, some with over 200k(the diesels, their best engines)but the rust and just plain dangerous corrosion was a good reason to peddle them. Now I'm sure galvanized ones will hold up (porsche since 78) longer. At 25k they should be monocoque like the NSX. Of course when I bought my toyota trucks they were the only game in town well worth the 3k, 5k, 7k, etc. until the t100 was 12k after the 3500 rebate (needed to sell them then). Since they have been making them here I think the price is to high (and no 25% import tax now) and profits have increased. Greed has set in perhaps. Now without getting into any more pissing contests I'll end this with the hope that everyone out there gets a great deal or holds out for one. Don't be afraid to walk away from the sales manager. Remember their laughing at you the minute you drive away in the new truck. Approximately 13% mark up plus hold back and advertising so you can multiply the sticker by .83 and get the real invoice. Don't let anyone tell you different.
  • tboydentboyden Posts: 5
    Hi everyone, well I must say it's a pretty good debate that will continually be on-going. I have been driving a GEO Tracker 4 DR 4 x 4 for the last 3 years, in that time I have also driven all the big 3's trucks (compact & full-size) for work. This is because we've been trying out vechicles to use for the company fleet. Basically the big 3 bite. Chevies, transmission and engine problems, Fords, the same, Dodges, under-powered and just plain junk. So I went to the local Toyota dealership on 6-26-99 and took a look at the Tundra, wondering what Toyota would come up with. BTW I owned an '87 Toyota PU before the GEO.
    You know what? I bought the Tundra. To be exact, a fully loaded Tundra SR5 access-cab 4x4, V8, towing package, etc.. It was kinda a no brainer considering the dealer paid off my trade ($5000), gave me $6000 dollars for it, paid the sales tax for the Tundra and kept the lease (48 months, 20k) at $400 a month. Same monthtly payments as the GEO to buy. And to top it off no over mileage fees or any other fees as-long-as I trade it in or re-finance to buy at the end of the lease. Do you think you'd get that deal at the big 3's lots, I DON'T THINK SO! and after bringing it to work to line it up next to the big 3's big trucks, it's virtually the same size. It only looks smaller because it's not as boxy as the big 3. As-far-as gas mileage 175 highway miles, just under half a tank used. Pretty good for a V8. And reliability, time will only tell, but if it's as good as Toyotas before it, my recommendation to my boss is to start ordering Tundras.
  • hall2hall2 Posts: 40
    I wanted a truck so I test-drive a Ford F-150, Chevy Silverado(loaded), Dodge Ram 1500, Tundra Access Cab, and a small Nissan Frontier V6 SE. I thought the Dodge handle as good as the Tundra but the Dodge is a large truck. The Nissan Frontier extended cab is only for the toolbox, so I bought a Tundra SR5 Access Cab 4x4 V8. I'm picking it up today. I like the ride.
  • volfyvolfy Posts: 274
    My definition:

    Personal bias = shops around, likes a particular vehicle better than others.

    Narrow-minded = precludes other makes and model regardless of merit.

    I have been tried and convicted of the first charge and hereby enter a plea of innocent to the second.

    Okay by me if you don't think much of my understanding of matters technical. This wouldn't be the first time. ;-) I'm always open to learn something new.
  • hindsitehindsite Posts: 590
    Good luck in your new truck.

    Well, as I said earlier in another post I am look to buy a new full size pickup. I have the '94' 4x4 F150 and she has been fairly reliable. May consider the Tundra, but taking a open minded wait and see attitude.
  • quadrunner500quadrunner500 Posts: 2,728
    Ride for twenty miles in the back seat of Tundra, with time out for good behavior.
  • quadrunner500quadrunner500 Posts: 2,728
    Twenty minutes in back of Tundra = Cruel and Unusual punishment.
  • quadrunner500quadrunner500 Posts: 2,728
    Main thing is to enjoy your truck. Hope it's a good one.
  • spoogspoog Posts: 1,224
    20 minutes in back of any extended cab pickup=


    Since when was riding in an "extra cab" comparable to a front seat of a lexus?

    They all are horribly cramped and punishing.
    They are made for kids and pets.
    geesh, get a clue.
  • volfyvolfy Posts: 274
    Actually, cruel and unusual punishment would be sitting in the "jump seat" of any compact ext. cab pickup. I'd already served my time in a colleague's S-10 extended cab on a lunch run. Said coworker was 6'2" and I was wedged in there so good I didn't need a seat. :-)
  • citroen7citroen7 Posts: 62
    There's plenty of room in the new GMC sierra. Also 4-wheel ABS disc brakes with dynamic brake proportioning (predictable linear response). In other words, it's designed to behave the same whether the truck is loaded or empty. A four wheel antilock brake system helps preserve steering control. Dynamic brake proportioning makes better use of the rear brakes by electronically modulating pressure for maximum effectiveness. Add eight hundred pounds of weight and see if the toy brakes 20 feet quicker. Or see if its still one second faster 0-60 weight being equal. Still who would want to own any truck 48 months. My bet is you'll trade sooner and loose big time in a penalty. I have been trading every one and a half years with the last three GMCs and its only cost me average $3500. Considering I've been driving them 60k plus miles each and I deduct mileage in taxes getting back my depreciation loss. Try trading the tundra a year from now. No, the only way would be to sell it privately and I have found only the dealers get near the average loan price used. Good luck toy owners.
  • 14921492 Posts: 1
    doea anyone own a tundra yet? which model? how much? Is it comfortable on 200-400 mile drives. Given your experience with the vehicle would you buy it today?
  • barlitzbarlitz Posts: 752
    I can't believe that every one is still pissing and moaning about who's truck is better,I don't know who posted it but I looked for foriegn vehicles on the UNION job site I am on in Boston and out of all the cars and trucks I saw there were absolutely 0 foriegn, they may be big where you live but there not to big up here I happened to see one discounted 4000 in the paper and this is new england where the weather and elements are brutal you'd think everyone would want a big tough truck just maybe not the fundra
  • Toyota17Toyota17 Posts: 15
    That might be how it is in Boston, but here in New York they are selling like hot cakes. I am a sales manager at a Toyota dealership in southern New York and we have been sold out with a waiting list scence June 1st!!!
  • spoogspoog Posts: 1,224
    lol. Who cares what the majority of the people buy. Why is it that so many people equate
    quality with quantity or units sold?
    That is typical pop-culture-junkie mentality.
  • volfyvolfy Posts: 274
    Don't know about y'all but I don't base my purchase decisions on what makes Union labor happy, I buy what makes ME happy. If BUY AMERICAN is the only thing that can get folks to buy American trucks, then they can't compete in the long run anyways.

    I certainly don't feel the need to knock other vehicles to make my choice seem wiser. All you Toyota bashers are starting to smell like sour grape to me. If I can't convince you your GM trucks are good enough to stand proud without smearing the new Toyota, maybe I should start picking on your rides, huh? :-)
  • citroen7citroen7 Posts: 62
    well I guess no one is reading or comprehension is failing. GM trucks are leading in resale value(fact NADA). In the south and west where trucks are king, toys are considered girls trucks and many girls do buy them there. Like a convertible BMW, a going away gift to your college bound daughter. I was looking at the tundra brochure and was amazed at how little information is actually there(are they hiding something or not much to tell). Mostly silly photos to appeal to the young. Photos of their trucks at construction sites. Come on! No contractor would ever consider one of these overprices car trucks for actual work. Their sales are hurting and are becoming another T100 debacle. Would a toyota sales manager admit poor sales (not in your life). There are three big toyota dealers in my area and all of them have a dozen loaded tundras (mostly white ones and only a couple 4x2 however(less profit?)Salesmen use the scam of rarity at all dealers. They can trade dealer to dealer and get you in one as soon as the next dealer can drive one there. There all liars, remember that going in to buy any vehicle in any dealership. Finally braking again, the time one hits the brake at 60mph (88feet per sec) where one tenth of a sec can make up or loose the 20 feet in an empty or loaded truck, so its all relative to reflexes anyway. The better ABS and 4 wheel disc system on the GM will allow you to steer while braking an avoid the accident.
  • tarvertarver Posts: 7
    Just couldn't leave without a comment or two:

    "Finally braking again, the time one
    hits the brake at 60mph (88feet per sec) where one
    tenth of a sec can make up or loose the 20 feet in
    an empty or loaded truck, so its all relative to reflexes anyway"

    What? So... relative to equal reflexes... the toyta still stops quicker. Seems simple enough to me.

    Enjoy what you have, or trade it.
  • leewleew Posts: 32
    I test drove both a F-150 XLT and a somewhat comparably equipped Tundra tonight. Its a tough pick. The Ford dealers sounded alot more likely to deal on the price. "Around invoice" about 26K for a truck marked at 30K, and that had a few more "options/doo-hickies" than the Toyota did. The Toyota MSRP'ed at $28,616 with a mark up to 30. Though it sounded like the dealer was willing to drop the mark up. I'm leaning toward the Toyota but I really don't want to pay MSRP, especially when they might come down in price in a few months and I'll end up kicking myself in the [non-permissible content removed]. I own a 92 Toyota pickup now and have been very satisfied with its reliability. I fear the Ford my be a gamble in that regard.

    Thanks for hearing me out folks. Time to call it a day. I'm trucked out.
  • Toyota17Toyota17 Posts: 15
    You said earlier in a response: "Would a toyota sales manager admitpoor sales (not in your life)". So are trying to say I am lying! Maybe thats how it is in the "South-West", but as I said before they are a very hot truck up hear in the New York State area. I am not lying.
  • volfyvolfy Posts: 274
    leew, I know exactly what you mean. I've been looking at the F150 XL or Work Series as well. Man, Ford gives you a lot of truck for the money. No wonder they sell more trucks than Chevy/GMC combined. I own a '96 Tacoma (my first Toyota) and I'd like to stay with Toyota quality and get the Tundra in a few years. I keep all my vehicles for 5 years+. I usually pay cash for mine so a couple of thousand dollars is a big deal to me. If I do buy big three, it'll probably be F-150 and I'll probably just do a 2-year lease instead because of my lingering doubts about quality. Anyways, I'll wait and see what happens with the Tundra. My Tacoma is paid in full and hasn't given me a lick of trouble, so I can wait as long as I want.
  • quadrunner500quadrunner500 Posts: 2,728
    The only reason the Tundra stops quicker is because it's lighter. And then its advantage is on the dry. In the wet, or slippery conditions, it's lack of rear ABS might reverse the outcome.
  • quadrunner500quadrunner500 Posts: 2,728
    And actually, it only stopped quicker in one test, the one paid for by Toyota marketing. Better wait for the side by side comparos before getting hasty.
  • hindsitehindsite Posts: 590
    Maybe there are no foreign cars or truck up there in Boston at your construction site. But here in NYC in the heart of Manhattan I have been to the hi-rise building construction sites that are union and have seen American and foreign cars & trucks. Likewise, also con- struction jobs in New Jersey, Connecticut, and Pennslyvania. Ditto the same for highway and bridge construction. Think you need to get the facts right.
  • hindsitehindsite Posts: 590
    Ford does give a lot of truck I have a 94 F150 4x4 5.0 SFI and have had the transmission rebuilt twice, bad AC compressor, AC leaks, brake problems, and electrical problems. It runs fine as long as you keep it parked a lot.
  • leewleew Posts: 32
    Your case sounds pretty common with Ford trucks. It's really sad, the F-150 trucks are wonderfully thought out vehicles in terms of human engineering and form. Its just too bad their reliability is so poor.

    "runs fine as long as you keep it parked a lot."

    That's a good one ;)

    It looks like I am going to take that full sized plunge and sign my life away and get a Tundra. The compact truck to full sized truck adjustment period ought'a be interesting.
  • present4upresent4u Posts: 52
    I have been looking for a vehicle to replace my aging 1990 Nissan 4x4 that I bought new in 1991 for $8500. That Nissan never left me stranded during the time I've owned it, and only cost me oil, gas, and a battery cable in nine years.

    I now make a lot more money than I did when I thought $8500 was a lot to spend, so I started thinking about allowing my next purchase to approach the 30k mark. The only problem was, I couldn't decide if I wanted a car or a truck. I still enjoyed the fun of 4WD, but needed a bit more room that my simple Nissan offered. A friend's suggestion that I consider a crew-cab truck pointed me to GMC, Ford, and Dodge -- until I saw a TV commercial for a Tundra followed by a next day real-life sighting here in LA on the 405 freeway.

    My brother -- a true mountain man -- curses Ford Motor Company to this day over his tragic relationship with a late-eighties F-350 4x4 Crew Cab 460 diesel that once stranded him in a 14' high Utah snowdrift because the ignition lock decided to break. Another time, I had to drive 100 miles to rescue him when a small CA emissions part failed and the F-350's computer put the truck into 'limp' mode until the dealer could fix it. He traded the cursed F-350 for $4500 on a new LandCruiser, and swore he'd disown me as a brother if I chose a Ford as my next vehicle -- all the while steering me toward the Tundra. I considered a Chevy, but another family friend had similar agonies that my brother did with his Ford, so GMC/Chevy was out. I did like the Dodge, but the salesman acted like an [non-permissible content removed] in front of me after I caught him in some outright lies -- so I left, never to return to another Dodge dealer.

    Next was the Toyota dealership:

    I found a black Tundra SR5 V8 4x4 loaded with almost all options and test drove it. It's as quiet as my girlfriend's high-end Lexus sedan! The power comes on *much* stronger than the 1.6l 4-banger I'm used to from my Nissan, but still bows down to the 1968 Chevelle SS 396 I own. Nice V8 growl when you get your foot in it, but it seems to suffer from some low-end lag. The power is there, but no crisp throttle control is evident under 1000 rpm. My Chevelle sure as Hell has *that*. Oh, well...

    I would have bought that particular Tundra right then, but it unfortunately came with the hideous blue/gray cloth interior and blue dash plastic color scheme I loathe. I'm waiting for the Limited Access Cab with Oak leather trim to become available, although I did tell the dealer I test drove with that I'd accept the first Sunfire Red, Thunder Gray, or Black 4x4 V8 SR5 loaded with the Convenience package and ABS brakes as long as he'll do aftermarket leather for cost. He agreed, and I'll be trading my Nissan immediately at that time. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

    I can't wait for the Tundra I want. I look at it as a cross between a LandCruiser and a Lexus with a truck bed thrown in. Call me a wanna-be city cowboy yuppie if you want, and I won't take it as an insult. That describes me perfectly. I'm not ashamed.

    I've seen a lot of zealotry here on this board in regards to manufacturer and model, but I can understand it. People have preferences, and that's great -- My preference happens to be the Tundra.

    Happy 4th of July, readers! Make sure your kids know what it means.
This discussion has been closed.