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When I bought my 3 on 7/31 the dealer had a grand total of 6 of them to choose from, and had just gotten the one I ended up buying off the truck that same morning. There were no unprepped units on the back lot, nada!
This was at the Mazda dealer in Fresno California, a metropolitan area of over half a million population, not some small town.
Mine was a 6/04 production car, as were the other 2 that I looked at that night. Figure a month to 2 months between rolling off the line in Hiroshima and hitting dealer lots on this side of the Pacific, and that means there is little or no back inventory on the 3, they're selling as fast as they hit the dealerships.
Given a 2 month or so lead time I bet production on the 3 was interrupted, however briefly, for the 05 model change, contributing to the short supply of 04 models at this time.
I really doubt that we'll be seing leftover 04 Mazda 3s languishing on dealer lots in November.
new and thoroughly competitive MPV? Sure! Although, how many tries are we going to give Mazda on this one?
New Millennia? Now is not the right time, IMO. Gotta get a really solid grounding in core areas first. And in Mazda's case, gotta give a really great launch to the next Miata, the first real update this car has had in 14 years.
I assume you want that MX-6 to be a two-door Mazda6? I like that idea - with more handling capabilities than the sedans and wagons. And for that matter, I like the idea of an MX-3 too.
Mazdaspeed 3? I thought that was already in the works? Didn't I read something recently?
As of 8/1, Automotive News reported a 50-day inventory of Mazda3s. Not THAT hot, but certainly better than the industry average. I think July and August were just dreadful for the industry in general.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
On the topic of the MPV the van has only been updated twice in its existence. The same model ran from about 1990-1997 if I am right. The current one needs to be updated to go head to head with Honda, Toyota, and even Chrysler.
In my opinion The MX-6 name needs to be reborn because when Mazda makes the 6 bigger in 2007 its going to leave some of their younger buyers out in the cold. Bringing back the MX-6 name will allow Mazda to still get that 20-30 year old buyer that the current 6 is getting now. From what I read in the current issue of Car and Driver the next 6 might be based on a Lincoln platorm. The way I see it Mazda could make an MX-6 on a shortened Lincoln platform. An MX-3? I remember the last generation MX-3. Kinda small in size for my tastes.
Finally, thanks for clearing up the issue I have with Mazda 3 sales in the last couple of months. The industry average for a car is 65 days on a lot. Its very unusual in my opinion for a compact car to have such demand. I am happy to hear a Mazda Speed 3 is on the way. I'm wonderimg when that will debut.
The following article is from latest issue of automotive news.
"Mazda Motor Corp. plans to build more Mazda3s to meet strong demand in the United States and elsewhere.Mazda is assembling the Mazda3 at an annual pace of about 254,000. But demand is running at an annual pace of more than 300,000."
As someone mentioned earlier maybe sales of mazda 3 is slowing due to lack of inventory?
the original MX-3 had an optional V-6 that I think was probaly the smallest production V-6 ever to grace our shores - wasn't it a 2.0? That car was a hoot.
The MX-6, OTOH, had WAY too much Ford Probe for my tastes. This one needs to be Mazda-engineered from the ground up.
The speculation I read on a Mazdaspeed 3 had it appearing in about a year. It was little more than heightened rumors, but I gave it some credence because it would make a lot of sense for Mazda.
I heard it the other way around: the Lincoln Zephyr (and now Mercury Milan as well) are to be based on a stretched Mazda6 platform - isn't that right? I am betting that either the 6 Hatch or 6 Wagon will not make it (probably the hatch) due to low sales and if it is replaced by a MX-6 variant, I will be quite gratified!
As to the 3, if what norne mentioned comes to pass and the 3 tops 300K annual sales, it will really be playing in the big leagues - corolla only tops out at about 330K-350K, and that would be well above Civic.
The MPV debuted in 1989 - Mazda was ahead of both Nissan and Honda (GM also?) in having its own minivan, yet it has been surpassed in sales by all of them...and isn't this the fourth gen now, or was one of those just a refresh? Either way, I really thought they finally hit the sweet spot for a so-called "zoom zoom" minivan with the current model, but sales have not taken off. To me, that does not bode well.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
ooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...well the figures for Corolla and Civic I mentioned were U.S.-only. The Corolla sells almost a million a year worldwide. Don't know the corresponding figure for Civic, but it has to be pretty high because it is quite popular in Europe.
stickguy, I wonder how big the standard 4-cyl was in the MX-3. Do you have any recollection, or will I have to go look it up?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
so it had a standard 1.7 4-cyl, with the option being a 1.8 V-6??!! Subtle differences...
...edit...OK, wait, I looked it up, and at least according to the KBB, the 4-cyl was a 1.6. Still not a huge difference.
I would really like to see them bring back the MX-3. I know sales were very slow back then which is why it got axed, but hatches were dying in the early 90s, and now they seem to be making a bit of a comeback.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The second generation MX-6(93-97)did share platforms I think with the Ford Probe. The First generation MX-6(88-92) I'm not sure if it had alot in common with the Ford Probe at that time. I agree though if the MX-6 name does come back it has to have whole lot of zoom-zoom DNA.
I agree with you on the Mazdaspeed 3. Mazda feeds the customer who is an enthusiast. Mazda definately has to go ahead and make a Mazdaspeed 3 for their enthusiast customers.
Finally, with the MPV Mazda has to deal with Honda and Toyota head on in that category. Its hard to go up against Honda and Toyota head to head in the mini-van category. Mazda is just not good at marketing to familes. I figure though once the people who now own Mazda 3 and 6's when they have familes they won't run to HOnda and Toyota anymore. When Mazda went ahead with the 95 Protege and 98 626 they totally threw themselves for a loop in terms of target audience. They basically had no customers to buy the current MPV. To me the current MPV shares alot more exterior styling DNA with the 99 Protege 03 6, and 04 3 than with the 95 Protege and 98 626. Its hard to explain but you see where I am getting at here?
I see where you are going, and the only thing I would possibly dispute is that customers are that loyal to brands these days. But for those that are brand-loyal, the natural progression is from sedan to minivan, I think, as families grow, and Mazda had the 626 since the early 80s. The thing is, regardless of golf daddy's and soccer mommy's secret aspirations, most people don't want "zoom zoom" in a minivan. They want interior space and flexibility first, with a heavy helping of safety a close second, and good fuel economy and reliability if they are allowed a three and a four. Zoom zoom is down there around tenth, if it is on the list at all. Before that, they also want a good value, and they want a vehicle that fits everyone and everything but drives a lot more like a car than most SUVs do.
BTW, I would love it if someone would clarify just what relation the MX-6 had to the Probe in the early years. I thought Ford was basically rebadging an all-Mazda MX-6 for the first-gen Probe, and it was more of a mixed bag, with a LOT more Ford parts, for the second gen of each.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
1st gen Probe and MX-6 were all-Mazda except for an optional V-6 version of the Probe which got the cast-iron Vulcan 3 litre V-6 originally designed for the first generation Taurus.
2nd generation was more of a mixed bag except I think Ford dropped the Vulcan in the V-6 Probe in favor of the Mazda-built dohc unit used in the MX-6. Pricing was usually higher on the MX-6 than the Probe on the 2nd generation.
"But for those that are brand loyal, and natural progressionis from sedan to minivan, I think as families grow, and Mazda has had the 626 since the early 80's."
Yeah Mazda had the 626 since the early 80's but they try to style the 98 626 to directly target Honda/Toyota and exploded in Mazda's face. I think in 98 and 99 the 626 sold ok(not any great jump in sales from the previous generation 626 though)then when they refreshed the 626 for the 2000 model year thats when sales started to really slip for the 626. I had a 98 626 but Mazda's core audience didn't really go for it. The 98 626 just didn't really have too much demand with customers.
some experience of a late 90s 626 4-cyl, and I can attest to the fact that there was really no "zoom zoom" in that car at all, at least not any more than there was in an Altima or Accord of the time. It is not hard to figure out why they lost sales a lot on that model. The 6 has brought things back from the brink for Mazda's midsizer, but what would be wonderful to see now is that Mazdaspeed Mazda6 you mentioned earlier...
Products get outdated so quickly in today's market, especially in the high-volume compact and midsize segments.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
It looked like in the first of the year it was coming together for Mazda. However during the last 3 months sales have been down. I don't get it. Every other brand had a good sales month last month even brands like Volvo and Chrysler who have been very up and down for the last 2 decades. Mazda has the best styled cars in each category in my opinion. I'm lost for words. Kia might outsell Mazda this year. Thats nothing to be proud of. Maybe Mazda needs to go back to heavy discounting to get cars off the lots.
You can read my posts from the early days of the Mazda6 or the defunct Accord vs. Mazda6 room to find out why the Mazda6 isn't setting the U.S. on fire.
And the 3 has the styling but IMHO the down side starts with the fabric on the seats and drops further with the irreplacable radio and plastic core support under the hood. Leather is nice but not gonna sell many cars in the 3 market position. Sales are great in Canada though so I hear.
The sales of the 6 have actually been up from last year or at least equal. Sales of the 3 have been down for the past few months. Thats unusual for a product to be new and then just drop like that. I mean the Chrysler 300 and Acura TL are still in quite heavy of demand.
I agree with the last post leather in a compact car is a no-no. I thnk the Toyota Corolla offers leather though and sales of the Corolla have been setting fire.
Gee: the hood thing I think you explained to me when the 3 first came into the market that the hood was made of cheap plastic or something. The radio you have to educate because I know nothing about that. I don't frequent these boards as much as I used to. The radio thing could be why sales are down: people learn about a product by word of mouth.
radio that was difficult to swap for aftermarket models. In addition, the keyless was disabled if it was removed. People HATED that idea. So much so that Honda did away with it in the 2000 refresh. One thing that you have to have in the "econo" car is sound system upgradability.
It's not the fact that they offer leather, it's that the base cloth feels cheap. The fabric can be pulled away from the padding underneath. Very disconcerting.
The fact that the 6 is selling near even as it did last year is rather dissapointing now that there are 3 models. The increase is hardly notable considering the slow start last year.
The 300C is gonna be HUGE.
I don't know what the hood is made of. But it's the crossmember that the hood latches to when it's closed to that is black ABS plastic. It's really not a structural part of the car but this is the first time I've seen it made of plastic.
I don't think that means much since people don't buy wagons and hatches that much. I mean for example most of Mazda 3 sales are of the sedan and not the hatch. Back to the 6, It did off to a slow start because they didn't have the right inventory of models. I have no problem with Mazda 6 sales. It supposed to be a youth 4 door sedan. From what I hear though the Mazda 3 is so much in demand they can't make them fast enough. However like I said on the Mazda 3 board there is a dealer in NJ that is offering a 1,155 dealer dollar discount on the 3. Is this model really in demand or what? Gee 35..sometimes I don't know what Mazda Motor Corp thinks with their decisions. They take a product and make it the hardest thing to sell. A company like Honda or Nissan knows how to launch products appropiately.
is taking off in other markets, that is what all the news was about ramping up production for this model. The production increase is true, but the extra ones to be built are not destined for our shores...
They never needed a Mazda6 hatch, and as much as I love hatches, I figure this one to go away within a year. They should keep the wagon - people DO buy wagons here - but they should not count on more than about 10-20% of the sales to be wagons.
Leather as an option for compact cars is OK, as long as you don't plan to sell very much of it. While it is true that you can get a Corolla with leather, they sell about 100 of them nationwide every year...
Mitsu is dropping the Lancer Sportbacks - one of Mazda3's five-door competitors. That is good news I guess. No-one every really bought that model before it got killed though, so maybe not too.
gee: that reminds me of the old CRX's from the late 80s, early 90s. They had a crossmember and entire front fascia that were like this really easily cracked plastic, or plexi maybe? I dunno. But it always cracked after a few years, and sometimes big chunks fell off, like what is the case with my sister's car. Plastic crossmembers at the front are a no-no IMO.
mazda threw all its really hot stuff at the market in a period of about a year: Mazda3, 6, and RX-8. Not to mention the new MPV that debuted just before that. Now sales are going to naturally slide downhill for a while - witness the sad 25% drop in VW sales this year. All their models are old, old, old, because they brought them all to market at the same time. Within the next 12 months we will see the new Passat, Jetta, Golf, and GTI. You can bet sales will be better this time next year!
In Mazda's case, at least the all-new Miata is just around the bend, that oughtta perk things up a little when it arrives, at least in terms of looky-loos frequenting the dealerships. And when Mazda gets its version of the Ford Freestyle (within the year, right?) things will warm up even more. They need a bigger crossover than Tribute.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I had an 88 CRX Si, and at 170k miles, none of the plastic had cracked or fallen off. Rust, on the rear quarter panels, near the wheel wells, that's a different story. The radiator bracket was replaced by previous owner, who put all of his 220 lbs on it, while checking the oil. Hmmm, maybe that counts as easily cracked plastic.
I've had my 3 a couple of months now and never paid any attention to the plastic upper radiator support.
I just now went out and looked at it carefully for the first time. It's the most substantial looking piece of plastic I've ever seen, with broad triangular honeycombed reinforcements on either side. The triangular areas are about a square foot in area and the honeycombing is over an inch deep. The hood latch that's bolted to it also has a 1 inch heavy sheetmetal (looks to be at least 2 or 3mm thick metal) U shaped brace that extends forward and down to bolt securely to the solid metal bumper bar even with the lower edge of the upper grille opening.
The entire setup looks to be more than sufficiently strong for it's purpose, is lighter than steel, won't rust. Since the 3 is one of if not THE torsionally stiffest body structures around I don't see it as a problem in any way.
In my opinion anyone denigrating the car because of this is as silly as those who insist 5mph bumpers have a positive effect on occupant safety in a crash.
"most substantial looking piece of plastic I've ever seen"
Kinda like saying, "I know that model has one leg, but isn't she pretty".
That's one of those parts that I have never seen made of plastic. And not something that brought positive feeling about the rest of the car. I know that's my opinion, but some people hate sunroofs, auto climate, ABS, etc. and I don't understand them.
I always wondered what those 5mph bumpers were for. Now I know! If they would just be honest and say that they are for aerodynamics, or cosmetics, or some other lie, that would be better. Wait until they start with the airbags in the bumper, for pedestrians. I can see it now, you get hit by a car, the bumper bag goes off, saving your brain housing group(head, gord, melon,noodle, etc,etc....) from serious injury, only to be propelled,on the rebound, by same airbag, 50 feet down the road, thus crushing your grape under the wheel of oncoming traffic. I get it. Really I do.
my sister's CRX is an '87, way less miles than yours had, and the front clip is in pieces, and both the front fenders have a big crack running through the middle of them. I don't know what the material is, can't believe they would have put plastic fenders on the car, but it certainly isn't metal. Maybe plexi or something, that is why I mentioned that, because that is what it feels like.
Get used to more and more plastic in crucial spots under the hood in places you thought surely had to be metal. They need to save weight any way they possibly can (not to mention reduce cost).
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The ramps I use to raise my car to change my oil are plastic. They're called "Rhino Ramps" and are supposedly good for 12,000 pounds. I'm betting my life on them everytime I change my oil.
I'm sure Mazda can figure out a plastic stout enough to support a radiator considering you can buy plastic at Wal-Mart that supports 12,000 pounds.
Geez.
Some people are really reaching if that's what they find to complain about with the Mazda3.
I'm surprised those peoples' heads didn't explode with the advent of plastic intake manifolds.
are on a totally different scale when it comes to heat. Anti freeze isn't gonna make metal glow. And they are a long way from making rubber exhaust pipes but they do have rubber radiator hoses.
A little heat isn't an issue, but the exhaust system is much more than a "little" heat.
MB was notorious for plastic radiator components in the 80s, perhaps one of their earlier cost cutting measures. They worked fine for awhile...but plastic exposed to heat tends to become brittle and breaks easy with age, at least the plastic they used. I've seen many period MB with problems from broken radiator necks where the main hose attaches. I'd be at least a little leery.
"MB was notorious for plastic radiator components in the 80s"
It's not just MBs from the 80s.
MANY, MANY cars right now have plastic radatior components.
It'd be kinda funny shopping for cars based on whether or not the radiator had plastic pieces. Your choices would be very slim if you had any choices at all. I wouldn't be surprised if there were no vehicles left with 100% metal radiators. Go take a look under your hood and see for yourself.
do glow. Therefore it's highly doubtful the gasses have cooled enough to be plastic safe by the time it gets to the muffler. Especially in high rpm use. That's why there is no talk of plastic in this turorial. http://www.autoeducation.com/autoshop101/exhaust.htm
I'm talking about the core support that runs across the front of the car that supports the radiator and front facia.
There are higher quality aftermarket radiators available for MB anyway. They still have some plastic, as I am sure all do...but the high stress areas are sturdier.
I'm not sold on plastic exhaust unless there's some new super-durable plastic out there that has been shown to not decay in heat.
As a dyed-in-the-wool Mazda fan, I have been most impressed with Mazda's renaissance over the last several years. However, despite all the accolades, Mazda has really only produced two vehicles that are either genuinely unique or class leaders - the RX-8 and the Mazda3.
The Mazda6 is a fine vehicle as well - near the top of its class - but I don't consider it a homerun. More like a stand-up triple. The addition of the 5-door and the wagon to the model range helps, as will the upcoming Mazdaspeed version due next spring - but it simply isn't quite good enough to break through to the truly top tier of the most competitive segment in automobiledom.
So, based on what I know about Mazda's upcoming product, and bearing in mind that I live in Canada with our surprisingly different taste in cars, here's a little advice to Mazda to keep the heat on the competition.
1) Evolve Mazdaspeed into a something similar to BMW's M division. In other words, make a Mazdaspeed version of just about everything you make and make them available all the time. This one model at a time thing, with ridiculously limited production runs misses the boat. With the rise of Japanese tuner cars, Mazda has the opportunity to corner the market on no-compromise performance vehicles that are still tasteful and covered by a manufacturers warranty.
So built the Mazdaspeed 6 and keep building them. Keep building the Mazdaspeed Miata. Build and AWD 240HP Mazdaspeed 3. And finally, do something wild with the Tribute, which would help differentiate it from its twin brother, the Escape and make it stand out in another increasingly competitive segement, the compact SUV.
2) Move quickly to update the Mazda6 and fix the things that keep it from selling in bigger numbers. I.e. get on your hands and knees and beg for an allotment of the new Duratec 3.5 and do a number on it like you did on the Duratec 3.0 (I know Mazda, big V6's equal torque steer and less than ideal handling, but sometimes you have to give the people what they want even when they want something they shouldn't - plus you can always offer an AWD model if you can make your silly AWD system work with a V6 engine)
Also, update the interior right away. The base cloth upholstery is bush and too many people dislike the centre console. You get an A+ for the Mazda3 interior Mazda, so we know you can do it.
Also - and I hate to give you this advice Mazda because I DO NOT LIKE big cars, but stretch out the Mazda6 platform and make the car bigger. The back seat is simply too cramped for the North American market. Do the engine fix and the interior fix for 2006 and the bigger platform for 2007.
3) Now that you are bringing the Mazda5 to Canada and the US (Good move Mazda - and brave too! Hats off) build an MPV that is big enough for North American tastes. That means - you guessed it - stretching the Mazda6 platform and once again going to big daddy at Ford and begging and pleading for that Duratec 35. I only hope that you can continue to work your magic and still make the ting fun to drive. The MPV is a really great package, just make it bigger and get rid of the goddam column shifter.
4) Completely ignore all of the crazies out there that tell you to put a rotary engine or - give me a break - a V6 in the Miata. The new corporate 2.3L will do just fine in the 2006 re-design. What you do need to do is return the car to its more purist roots, not try and compete with the Audi TT's and BMW Z3's of the world. Light, simple, tossable. That's the formula.
5) I understand that the 2006 Tribute will be built entirely in Japan for the North American market. Not many others know this yet, I think, but I believe this information to be pretty reliable. Good news.
Here, Mazda is what you need to do with the Tribute. Build it on the Mazda6 platform, vastly improve the quality of the interior, make it even a little more biased towards performance, and - like I said above - make a wild, Mazdaspeed edition.
6) Your upcoming luxury SUV will be based on the Aviator. My only advice on this one - since I don't know very much about it - is to move heaven and earth to differentiate the exterior and interior design as much as you possibly can from the Ford. I don't think people will care if the mechanics are essentially the same (Ford makes good trucks and SUVs) but it has to look and feel like a Mazda.
7) The Mazda3 is a truly great car. All you need to do in the short term is to pair the 2.3L engine with a five speed automatic transmission. That should improve highway comfort and help take care of fuel economy concerns.
Other than that, my only advice is to find a way to do more with this platform. Its too good not to be used more. I know that Mazda5 is coming, but how about a nifty coupe or even a convertible on this platform.
8) Ahhh, the RX-8 and the Renesis. Its finicky, but its good. Use your wizardry to find a way to put some extra ponies into the thing. If you could get it up to 275-280 HP, the horsepower freaks would have little or nothing to complain about. What about that electric turbo thingy we keep hearing about. That sounds cool. Oh yah, build the RX-7.
Some general advice
1) Bite the bullet and make all the safety stuff standard in all of your cars, especially in the US where the whining about this is incessant.
2) Mazda, its time to either build or source a truly decent five speed automatic transmission for your cars, minivan and SUVs. Too many complaints about what you have in your vehicles now.
3) The AWD thing is getting big. You've got two great platforms that are AWD compatible. Don't be afraid to jump on this. Up here in Canada, it would make people very happy.
4) Continue to focus on improving the interior quality and design in your products. Good start, keep it up.
That's about all I can think of for now. Keep up the good work.
Gee Whiz!!! You hit the nail on the head, GroovyPippin! Oh yeah, Mazda absolutely must make a new 323GTX. Put a 250-280hp turbo 2.3 in it. Price it just a notch below the Evo and STi. Sell 10 thousand a year.
Mazda, stop sitting on your thumbs, where is your pride? What happened after all those glorious racing years? We know, you know what to do. Question is, why aren't you doing what you are good at?
Well, they can make a "slim fast" model, ala Evo RS. And that would qualify. I would be perfectly happy with a bare bones stripper hotrod, but must have A/C for wife and kid's comfort.
"How about the irreplaceable stereo or the flimsy fabric on the seats."
irreplaceable now maybe, but not forever.
Remember the 96' Taurus's stereo?
They have kits available to replace that with an aftermarket deck.
If they could do it for the Taurus, they can do it for the Mazda3.
Flimsy fabric on the seats?
I don't see anything wrong with them, I think the fabric is better than in my brother's 02' Civic.
If the plastic radiator support left you with a negative feeling about the rest of the car, you really need to find something else to nit-pick about the Mazda3 because your arm-chair engineer second guessing is getting a little ridiculous.
If only you were as critical of Honda as you are of Mazda. Do they have aftermarket rear ends out yet for the new Accord sedan?
Need a sunroof in the Mazdaspeed6? Need a metal radiator support in the Mazda3? Fine. Don't buy them then.
"Mazda, its time to either build or source a truly decent five speed automatic transmission for your cars, minivan and SUVs. Too many complaints about what you have in your vehicles now."
They're one gear ahead of you. The 6 speed auto is available now in the Mazda6.
Comments
This was at the Mazda dealer in Fresno California, a metropolitan area of over half a million population, not some small town.
Mine was a 6/04 production car, as were the other 2 that I looked at that night. Figure a month to 2 months between rolling off the line in Hiroshima and hitting dealer lots on this side of the Pacific, and that means there is little or no back inventory on the 3, they're selling as fast as they hit the dealerships.
Given a 2 month or so lead time I bet production on the 3 was interrupted, however briefly, for the 05 model change, contributing to the short supply of 04 models at this time.
I really doubt that we'll be seing leftover 04 Mazda 3s languishing on dealer lots in November.
New Millennia? Now is not the right time, IMO. Gotta get a really solid grounding in core areas first. And in Mazda's case, gotta give a really great launch to the next Miata, the first real update this car has had in 14 years.
I assume you want that MX-6 to be a two-door Mazda6? I like that idea - with more handling capabilities than the sedans and wagons. And for that matter, I like the idea of an MX-3 too.
Mazdaspeed 3? I thought that was already in the works? Didn't I read something recently?
As of 8/1, Automotive News reported a 50-day inventory of Mazda3s. Not THAT hot, but certainly better than the industry average. I think July and August were just dreadful for the industry in general.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
In my opinion The MX-6 name needs to be reborn because when Mazda makes the 6 bigger in 2007 its going to leave some of their younger buyers out in the cold. Bringing back the MX-6 name will allow Mazda to still get that 20-30 year old buyer that the current 6 is getting now. From what I read in the current issue of Car and Driver the next 6 might be based on a Lincoln platorm. The way I see it Mazda could make an MX-6 on a shortened Lincoln platform. An MX-3? I remember the last generation MX-3. Kinda small in size for my tastes.
Finally, thanks for clearing up the issue I have with Mazda 3 sales in the last couple of months. The industry average for a car is 65 days on a lot. Its very unusual in my opinion for a compact car to have such demand. I am happy to hear a Mazda Speed 3 is on the way. I'm wonderimg when that will debut.
"Mazda Motor Corp. plans to build more Mazda3s to meet strong demand in the United States and elsewhere.Mazda is assembling the Mazda3 at an annual pace of about 254,000. But demand is running at an annual pace of more than 300,000."
As someone mentioned earlier maybe sales of mazda 3 is slowing due to lack of inventory?
The MX-6, OTOH, had WAY too much Ford Probe for my tastes. This one needs to be Mazda-engineered from the ground up.
The speculation I read on a Mazdaspeed 3 had it appearing in about a year. It was little more than heightened rumors, but I gave it some credence because it would make a lot of sense for Mazda.
I heard it the other way around: the Lincoln Zephyr (and now Mercury Milan as well) are to be based on a stretched Mazda6 platform - isn't that right? I am betting that either the 6 Hatch or 6 Wagon will not make it (probably the hatch) due to low sales and if it is replaced by a MX-6 variant, I will be quite gratified!
As to the 3, if what norne mentioned comes to pass and the 3 tops 300K annual sales, it will really be playing in the big leagues - corolla only tops out at about 330K-350K, and that would be well above Civic.
The MPV debuted in 1989 - Mazda was ahead of both Nissan and Honda (GM also?) in having its own minivan, yet it has been surpassed in sales by all of them...and isn't this the fourth gen now, or was one of those just a refresh? Either way, I really thought they finally hit the sweet spot for a so-called "zoom zoom" minivan with the current model, but sales have not taken off. To me, that does not bode well.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I do rememebr thinking it was kinda silly jamming in a tiny V6 when a nice 4 would do the job just fine, and be cheaper.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
stickguy, I wonder how big the standard 4-cyl was in the MX-3. Do you have any recollection, or will I have to go look it up?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
http://www.rs-productions.com/RSP_Motors/tech/sae-920677/sae-9206- 77.htm
...edit...OK, wait, I looked it up, and at least according to the KBB, the 4-cyl was a 1.6. Still not a huge difference.
I would really like to see them bring back the MX-3. I know sales were very slow back then which is why it got axed, but hatches were dying in the early 90s, and now they seem to be making a bit of a comeback.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
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I agree with you on the Mazdaspeed 3. Mazda feeds the customer who is an enthusiast. Mazda definately has to go ahead and make a Mazdaspeed 3 for their enthusiast customers.
Finally, with the MPV Mazda has to deal with Honda and Toyota head on in that category. Its hard to go up against Honda and Toyota head to head in the mini-van category. Mazda is just not good at marketing to familes. I figure though once the people who now own Mazda 3 and 6's when they have familes they won't run to HOnda and Toyota anymore. When Mazda went ahead with the 95 Protege and 98 626 they totally threw themselves for a loop in terms of target audience. They basically had no customers to buy the current MPV. To me the current MPV shares alot more exterior styling DNA with the 99 Protege 03 6, and 04 3 than with the 95 Protege and 98 626. Its hard to explain but you see where I am getting at here?
BTW, I would love it if someone would clarify just what relation the MX-6 had to the Probe in the early years. I thought Ford was basically rebadging an all-Mazda MX-6 for the first-gen Probe, and it was more of a mixed bag, with a LOT more Ford parts, for the second gen of each.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2nd generation was more of a mixed bag except I think Ford dropped the Vulcan in the V-6 Probe in favor of the Mazda-built dohc unit used in the MX-6. Pricing was usually higher on the MX-6 than the Probe on the 2nd generation.
Yeah Mazda had the 626 since the early 80's but they try to style the 98 626 to directly target Honda/Toyota and exploded in Mazda's face. I think in 98 and 99 the 626 sold ok(not any great jump in sales from the previous generation 626 though)then when they refreshed the 626 for the 2000 model year thats when sales started to really slip for the 626. I had a 98 626 but Mazda's core audience didn't really go for it. The 98 626 just didn't really have too much demand with customers.
Products get outdated so quickly in today's market, especially in the high-volume compact and midsize segments.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
And the 3 has the styling but IMHO the down side starts with the fabric on the seats and drops further with the irreplacable radio and plastic core support under the hood. Leather is nice but not gonna sell many cars in the 3 market position. Sales are great in Canada though so I hear.
I agree with the last post leather in a compact car is a no-no. I thnk the Toyota Corolla offers leather though and sales of the Corolla have been setting fire.
Gee: the hood thing I think you explained to me when the 3 first came into the market that the hood was made of cheap plastic or something. The radio you have to educate because I know nothing about that. I don't frequent these boards as much as I used to. The radio thing could be why sales are down: people learn about a product by word of mouth.
It's not the fact that they offer leather, it's that the base cloth feels cheap. The fabric can be pulled away from the padding underneath. Very disconcerting.
The fact that the 6 is selling near even as it did last year is rather dissapointing now that there are 3 models. The increase is hardly notable considering the slow start last year.
The 300C is gonna be HUGE.
I don't know what the hood is made of. But it's the crossmember that the hood latches to when it's closed to that is black ABS plastic. It's really not a structural part of the car but this is the first time I've seen it made of plastic.
"The 300C is gonna HUGE."
Your are 100% right about that.
They never needed a Mazda6 hatch, and as much as I love hatches, I figure this one to go away within a year. They should keep the wagon - people DO buy wagons here - but they should not count on more than about 10-20% of the sales to be wagons.
Leather as an option for compact cars is OK, as long as you don't plan to sell very much of it. While it is true that you can get a Corolla with leather, they sell about 100 of them nationwide every year...
Mitsu is dropping the Lancer Sportbacks - one of Mazda3's five-door competitors. That is good news I guess. No-one every really bought that model before it got killed though, so maybe not too.
gee: that reminds me of the old CRX's from the late 80s, early 90s. They had a crossmember and entire front fascia that were like this really easily cracked plastic, or plexi maybe? I dunno. But it always cracked after a few years, and sometimes big chunks fell off, like what is the case with my sister's car. Plastic crossmembers at the front are a no-no IMO.
mazda threw all its really hot stuff at the market in a period of about a year: Mazda3, 6, and RX-8. Not to mention the new MPV that debuted just before that. Now sales are going to naturally slide downhill for a while - witness the sad 25% drop in VW sales this year. All their models are old, old, old, because they brought them all to market at the same time. Within the next 12 months we will see the new Passat, Jetta, Golf, and GTI. You can bet sales will be better this time next year!
In Mazda's case, at least the all-new Miata is just around the bend, that oughtta perk things up a little when it arrives, at least in terms of looky-loos frequenting the dealerships. And when Mazda gets its version of the Ford Freestyle (within the year, right?) things will warm up even more. They need a bigger crossover than Tribute.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I just now went out and looked at it carefully for the first time. It's the most substantial looking piece of plastic I've ever seen, with broad triangular honeycombed reinforcements on either side. The triangular areas are about a square foot in area and the honeycombing is over an inch deep. The hood latch that's bolted to it also has a 1 inch heavy sheetmetal (looks to be at least 2 or 3mm thick metal) U shaped brace that extends forward and down to bolt securely to the solid metal bumper bar even with the lower edge of the upper grille opening.
The entire setup looks to be more than sufficiently strong for it's purpose, is lighter than steel, won't rust. Since the 3 is one of if not THE torsionally stiffest body structures around I don't see it as a problem in any way.
In my opinion anyone denigrating the car because of this is as silly as those who insist 5mph bumpers have a positive effect on occupant safety in a crash.
Kinda like saying, "I know that model has one leg, but isn't she pretty".
That's one of those parts that I have never seen made of plastic. And not something that brought positive feeling about the rest of the car. I know that's my opinion, but some people hate sunroofs, auto climate, ABS, etc. and I don't understand them.
Don't really care for auto-climate-control.
but I won't by a modern car without ABS though.
Almost the trifecta.
Get used to more and more plastic in crucial spots under the hood in places you thought surely had to be metal. They need to save weight any way they possibly can (not to mention reduce cost).
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I'm sure Mazda can figure out a plastic stout enough to support a radiator considering you can buy plastic at Wal-Mart that supports 12,000 pounds.
Geez.
Some people are really reaching if that's what they find to complain about with the Mazda3.
I'm surprised those peoples' heads didn't explode with the advent of plastic intake manifolds.
Plastic wheels???
A plastic intake makes sense....Now a plastic exhaust may raise a few eyebrows.
If it was far enough away from the exhaust manifold, I wouldn't be surprised to see it at all.
My Integra's radiator was partially plastic, so a little heat isn't an issue, and that was 12 years ago.
A little heat isn't an issue, but the exhaust system is much more than a "little" heat.
Mufflers and tailpipes don't glow. If they did, you wouldn't see them inches from plastic bumper covers.
It's not just MBs from the 80s.
MANY, MANY cars right now have plastic radatior components.
It'd be kinda funny shopping for cars based on whether or not the radiator had plastic pieces. Your choices would be very slim if you had any choices at all. I wouldn't be surprised if there were no vehicles left with 100% metal radiators. Go take a look under your hood and see for yourself.
That's why there is no talk of plastic in this turorial.
http://www.autoeducation.com/autoshop101/exhaust.htm
I'm talking about the core support that runs across the front of the car that supports the radiator and front facia.
I'm not sold on plastic exhaust unless there's some new super-durable plastic out there that has been shown to not decay in heat.
And I don't see an issue with that.
Like I said before, Wal-Mart sells "plastic" ramps that support 12,000 pounds.
12,000 pounds.
How much does a radiator weigh?
And I saw a few Audi references. But whatever. Im not gonna get trapped in this circle.
How about the irreplaceable stereo or the flimsy fabric on the seats.
The Mazda6 is a fine vehicle as well - near the top of its class - but I don't consider it a homerun. More like a stand-up triple. The addition of the 5-door and the wagon to the model range helps, as will the upcoming Mazdaspeed version due next spring - but it simply isn't quite good enough to break through to the truly top tier of the most competitive segment in automobiledom.
So, based on what I know about Mazda's upcoming product, and bearing in mind that I live in Canada with our surprisingly different taste in cars, here's a little advice to Mazda to keep the heat on the competition.
1) Evolve Mazdaspeed into a something similar to BMW's M division. In other words, make a Mazdaspeed version of just about everything you make and make them available all the time. This one model at a time thing, with ridiculously limited production runs misses the boat. With the rise of Japanese tuner cars, Mazda has the opportunity to corner the market on no-compromise performance vehicles that are still tasteful and covered by a manufacturers warranty.
So built the Mazdaspeed 6 and keep building them. Keep building the Mazdaspeed Miata. Build and AWD 240HP Mazdaspeed 3. And finally, do something wild with the Tribute, which would help differentiate it from its twin brother, the Escape and make it stand out in another increasingly competitive segement, the compact SUV.
2) Move quickly to update the Mazda6 and fix the things that keep it from selling in bigger numbers. I.e. get on your hands and knees and beg for an allotment of the new Duratec 3.5 and do a number on it like you did on the Duratec 3.0 (I know Mazda, big V6's equal torque steer and less than ideal handling, but sometimes you have to give the people what they want even when they want something they shouldn't - plus you can always offer an AWD model if you can make your silly AWD system work with a V6 engine)
Also, update the interior right away. The base cloth upholstery is bush and too many people dislike the centre console. You get an A+ for the Mazda3 interior Mazda, so we know you can do it.
Also - and I hate to give you this advice Mazda because I DO NOT LIKE big cars, but stretch out the Mazda6 platform and make the car bigger. The back seat is simply too cramped for the North American market. Do the engine fix and the interior fix for 2006 and the bigger platform for 2007.
3) Now that you are bringing the Mazda5 to Canada and the US (Good move Mazda - and brave too! Hats off) build an MPV that is big enough for North American tastes. That means - you guessed it - stretching the Mazda6 platform and once again going to big daddy at Ford and begging and pleading for that Duratec 35. I only hope that you can continue to work your magic and still make the ting fun to drive. The MPV is a really great package, just make it bigger and get rid of the goddam column shifter.
4) Completely ignore all of the crazies out there that tell you to put a rotary engine or - give me a break - a V6 in the Miata. The new corporate 2.3L will do just fine in the 2006 re-design. What you do need to do is return the car to its more purist roots, not try and compete with the Audi TT's and BMW Z3's of the world. Light, simple, tossable. That's the formula.
5) I understand that the 2006 Tribute will be built entirely in Japan for the North American market. Not many others know this yet, I think, but I believe this information to be pretty reliable. Good news.
Here, Mazda is what you need to do with the Tribute. Build it on the Mazda6 platform, vastly improve the quality of the interior, make it even a little more biased towards performance, and - like I said above - make a wild, Mazdaspeed edition.
6) Your upcoming luxury SUV will be based on the Aviator. My only advice on this one - since I don't know very much about it - is to move heaven and earth to differentiate the exterior and interior design as much as you possibly can from the Ford. I don't think people will care if the mechanics are essentially the same (Ford makes good trucks and SUVs) but it has to look and feel like a Mazda.
7) The Mazda3 is a truly great car. All you need to do in the short term is to pair the 2.3L engine with a five speed automatic transmission. That should improve highway comfort and help take care of fuel economy concerns.
Other than that, my only advice is to find a way to do more with this platform. Its too good not to be used more. I know that Mazda5 is coming, but how about a nifty coupe or even a convertible on this platform.
8) Ahhh, the RX-8 and the Renesis. Its finicky, but its good. Use your wizardry to find a way to put some extra ponies into the thing. If you could get it up to 275-280 HP, the horsepower freaks would have little or nothing to complain about. What about that electric turbo thingy we keep hearing about. That sounds cool. Oh yah, build the RX-7.
Some general advice
1) Bite the bullet and make all the safety stuff standard in all of your cars, especially in the US where the whining about this is incessant.
2) Mazda, its time to either build or source a truly decent five speed automatic transmission for your cars, minivan and SUVs. Too many complaints about what you have in your vehicles now.
3) The AWD thing is getting big. You've got two great platforms that are AWD compatible. Don't be afraid to jump on this. Up here in Canada, it would make people very happy.
4) Continue to focus on improving the interior quality and design in your products. Good start, keep it up.
That's about all I can think of for now. Keep up the good work.
Mazda, stop sitting on your thumbs, where is your pride? What happened after all those glorious racing years? We know, you know what to do. Question is, why aren't you doing what you are good at?
irreplaceable now maybe, but not forever.
Remember the 96' Taurus's stereo?
They have kits available to replace that with an aftermarket deck.
If they could do it for the Taurus, they can do it for the Mazda3.
Flimsy fabric on the seats?
I don't see anything wrong with them, I think the fabric is better than in my brother's 02' Civic.
If the plastic radiator support left you with a negative feeling about the rest of the car, you really need to find something else to nit-pick about the Mazda3 because your arm-chair engineer second guessing is getting a little ridiculous.
If only you were as critical of Honda as you are of Mazda. Do they have aftermarket rear ends out yet for the new Accord sedan?
Need a sunroof in the Mazdaspeed6? Need a metal radiator support in the Mazda3? Fine. Don't buy them then.
They're one gear ahead of you. The 6 speed auto is available now in the Mazda6.